Justin Timberlake more talented Usher??

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Props Slaps
 09-07-2007, 02:50 PM         #41
affinity 
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 Quasi said:
But Usher's biggest hit's he had NOTHING do with them as far as writing. It doesn't matter if he had help with Timbaland. Chemistry is Chemistry, they both played a part in each others success. If it wasn't for Justin do you really think Timb would be working with Madonna and Bjork? Absolutely not. Do you think Timb would be working with Britney? ABSOLUTELY NOT. Timb wouldn't be a huge mainstream success if it wasn't for Justin.

This thread is about talent. JT isn't a a robot he came up with the concept for this album along with Timb. Usher has NEVER came up with anything as creative as Justin's latest. He didn't even write "Yeah" which was his biggest hit.

Let's put it this way: Timbaland didn't need Justin as much as Justin needed Timbaland. Timbaland was a living legend in terms of production before Timberlake and he still is. Timbaland "makes" careers - just look at how hard Ginuwine fell the second he wasn't getting Timbo beats. Nelly Furtdado would still be singing that weakass "I'm like a bird" stuff she was fooling with before Timbo got involved in her career. If you think Timberlake would have gotten acceptance (and in turn having a new record buying demographic) in the hip hop community without the help of Timbo, you are kidding yourself. I bet over half of the people in the forum would be embarrassed to say they liked any work put out by him without Timbo beats - I remember reading hiphopsite.com back when Justified was just about to be released and they were saying, damn, how did missy not get those beats? I'm trying to think of the track exactly (edit: what u got)- but everyone was blown away by the production and they didn't care who was on the track.

Oh and as to how Timberlake's tracks enhanced Timbo's commercial appeal and in turn created opportunities that wouldn't otherwise be presented, you may be correct. However, I would give more credit to hip hop/R&B becoming more commercialized during the late 90's - people were like :wow: with the stuff he was doing with Missy and Ginuwine and I think they would still be clammering for his tracks with or without Justin.

Look, Timberlake is talented, he has an alright voice, he can dance and he is active in how his music is created and presented, but I think people are giving him way too much credit when if certain producers were not present, we would not even be having this discussion on a hip hop forum. You are right, Usher didn't write Yeah, but he had a hand in practically every other song on the album and almost all of the other hits that were previously released. You seem to be insinuating that Usher is a robot himself and is simply packaged for the masses. That isn't correct either


 Quasi said:
Your point? Why does it mater if JT worked with Timb on the majority of his album? It turned out to be a success.
My point is that without Timbaland having a say or offering his a.ssistance on nearly every track, the album would not have been as listenable to the people outside his key demographics -which is the females who grew up listening to NSync and then all the young pre-treen/teenage girls who think he is cute.

Look, perhaps the fact that I don't really like Timberlake's music outside of Timbo instrumentals is clouding my judgment. Talent is very subjective and we all have our opinions.

All I know is that if you told me I could have a ticket to either Usher's or Timberlake's show; I would take Usher's in a second because I think the quality of the music is better and also because I think Usher is a ridiculous performer who has excellent vocal range and doesn't require vocal lessons to make his voice sound more masculine just to get parts in movies.


Last edited by affinity; 09-07-2007 at 03:03 PM..
 09-07-2007, 04:11 PM         #42
Playboysoldier 
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 affinity said:
I don't dispute that Timberlake has actually co-written his music, but I do dispute that he only uses a "few" co-writers, every track on his albums have multiple writers. And yes, I also knew that Justin holds publishing rights under Tennman Tunes. Any artist worth their salt (yeah I know, back in the day phrase, but it applies here) in the music business does so, even Beyonce has her own publishing imprint. Usher also has his own publishing imprint under UR-IV.

I would be very curious to see how much "help" Timbo/Daja gave with concepts and lyrics and I have a feeling that if it wasn't present, the album wouldn't even be close to what we heard on the release.
the album probably wouldnt be as good without the production of timbaland and danja and they were a big part of FS/LS but for people to deny that justin actually takes pride in writing his music and helping with production and creating concepts is pretty flawed especially when there is people who publicly vouche for him and his creativity. Usher never really wrote any of his songs. I was shocked to learn that he barely wrote anything on confessions especially when he talked about how personal the album was blah blah blah.

if you wanna say fs/ls is nothing without timbo and danja then its safe to say confessions definitly would've been nothing withought JD and the 1 track lil jon made for him.
 09-07-2007, 05:07 PM         #43
affinity 
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Straight from :

Usher Confessions Production Credits:

Note: I added the writing credits myself using ASCAP

1. intro
produced by: james lackey & usher raymond

2. yeah! feat lil jon and ludacris
produced by: jonathan " lil jon" smith
written by:
BRIDGES CHRISTOPHER BRIAN, HAMLER GARRETT R, JEFFERSON LA MARQUIS
PHILLIPS JAMES ELBERT, SMITH JONATHAN H, SMITH PATRICK MICHAEL

3.throwback
produced by: just blaze
written by: BUTLER RICHARD PRESTON JR, DOZIER LAMONT HERBERT, HOLLAND BRIAN, HOLLAND EDWARD J, SMITH JUSTIN GREGORY, SMITH PATRICK MICHAEL, WYLIE RICHARD WAYNE

4.confessions ( interlude)
produced by: usher raymond, valdez brantley, juan johnny najera, Aaron spears and arhur strong

5. confessions part 2
produced by: jermaine durpi
co- produced by: bryan michacel cox
written by: COX BRYAN MICHAEL PAUL, MAULDIN JERMAINE DUPRI, RAYMOND USHER

6. burn
produced by: jermaine durpi
co- produced by: bryan michael cox
written by: COX BRYAN MICHAEL PAUL, MAULDIN JERMAINE DUPRI, RAYMOND USHER

7. caught up
produced by: andre harris and vidal davis
written by: the credits are weird here b/c ASCAP appears to have merged another artist as having sung a song also called "caught up"

8. superstar ( interlude)
produced by: usher raymond, valdez brantley, juan johnny najera, Aaron spears, arthur strong

9. superstar
produced by: andre harris and vidal davis
written by: BOYD JASON P D. DAVIS VIDAL, HARRIS ANDRE (US 1), HEMMINGWAY NYTICKA, HUTCHISON WILLIE M, RAYMOND USHER, TOBY MAURICE RYAN

10. truth hurts
produced by: jimmy jam & terry lewis
co- produced by: bobby ross & IZ
written by: BOBBY ROSS JR. AVILA, HARRIS JAMES SAMUEL III, IZZY AVILA
LEWIS TERRY STEVEN, RAYMOND USHER

11. simple things
produced by: jimmy jam & terry lewis
co- produced by: bobby ross avila & IZ
written by: AVILA BOBBY ROSS JR, AVILA ISSIAH, HARRIS JAMES SAMUEL III
LEWIS TERRY STEVEN, RAYMOND USHER

12. bad girl
produced by: destro music and jimmy jam and terry lewis
co- produced by: bobby ross avila & IZ
written by: AVILA BOBBY ROSS JR, AVILA ISSIAH, BARTON DON JEFFERY, GUICE WILLIAM C, HARRIS JAMES SAMUEL III, LEWIS TERRY STEVEN
RAYMOND USHER

13. that's what it's made for
produced by: jimmy jam & terry lewis
co- produced by: bobby ross avila & IZ & james "big jam" wright
written by: AVILA BOBBY ROSS JR, AVILA ISSIAH. HARRIS JAMES SAMUEL III
LEWIS TERRY STEVEN, RAYMOND USHER, WRIGHT JAMES QUENTON

14. can u handle it?
produced by: thicke & pro j
written by: GASS JAMES D, RAYMOND USHER, THICKE ROBIN A

15. do it to me
produced by: jermaine dupri
co-produced by: bryan michael cox
written by: COX BRYAN MICHAEL PAUL, MAULDIN JERMAINE DUPRI
RAYMOND USHER

16. take your hand
produced by: rich harrison
written by: HARRISON RICHARD CHRISTOPHER, HUFF LEON A, MAC-FADDEN GENE, RAYMOND USHER, WHITEHEAD JOHN CAVADUS

17. follow me
produced by: andre harris & vidal davis
written by: BOYD JASON P, DAVIS VIDAL, HARRIS ANDRE (US 1), TOBY MAURICE RYAN

Bonus Tracks:

18. My Boo (ft Alicia Keys)
Produced By: Jermaine Dupri (*IN NAME ONLY*) Ghost production from NO ID
Written By: AUGELLO-COOK ALICIA J, MAULDIN JERMAINE DUPRI. RAYMOND USHER, SEAL MANUEL LONNIE JR, SHROPSHIRE TAURIAN ADONIS

19. Red Light
Produced By: Lil Jon
Written By: HAMLER GARRETT R, HILSON KERI LYNN, MC DOWELL ROBERT W III, SMITH JONATHAN H, SMITH PATRICK MICHAEL

20. Seduction
Produced by Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis
Written by: AVILA BOBBY ROSS JR, AVILA ISSIAH, BUTLER RICHARD PRESTON JR, HARRIS JAMES SAMUEL III, LEWIS TERRY STEVEN, RAYMOND USHER
WRIGHT JAMES QUENTON

21. Confessions Part II (rmx)
Produced by: Jermaine Dupri
Co-Produced: Bryan Michael Cox
Written by: BARROW JAMAAL, COX BRYAN MICHAEL PAUL, MAULDIN JERMAINE DUPRI, MITCHELL CARL TERRELL, RAYMOND USHER


Yes, I have a lot of time on my hands - waiting for the steaks to marinate :)
I do think you could make a good argument that Confessions wouldn't have been as good of an album if JD wasn't on it, but Confessions had a quite a few quality tracks that didn't involve Jermaine and it was also interesting to note that "My Boo" was actually produced by No ID but Jermaine got production credit.

In response to the idea that Usher barely wrote anything on the album, as you can see, he was given credit for more than a majority of the tracks, particularly those tracks that had a more personal feel to them.
 09-07-2007, 05:33 PM         #44
Quasi 
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Usher had nothing to do with most of his successful singles and those tracks are Co-Write with mad people so he could have either put together the melody or barely anything. Notice how many people are listed as writers.

Most cases only the first 3 writers get credit meaning they are the ones who get an award.

Like for example Beyonce "Irreplaceable". She claimed she wrote it, which she did help but she didn't write it just came up with the melody or gave input. Justin Timberlake actually wrote the material and he's listed as the 1st song writer on credits.

and even if he was listed as the 1st writer he still has NEVER came up with anything that's creative as Futures3x/LoveSounds.


Last edited by Quasi; 09-07-2007 at 05:36 PM..
 09-07-2007, 06:04 PM         #45
Quasi 
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 affinity said:
Let's put it this way: Timbaland didn't need Justin as much as Justin needed Timbaland. Timbaland was a living legend in terms of production before Timberlake and he still is.
For the record I already established that when it comes to performing and vocal talent Usher trumps JT. I'm not deeming JT as great but i'm staying on topic "who is more talented". You really think Timb would have had as much mainstream appeal without JT? Yes, Timb was already a good producer but JT gave him more mainstream appeal and vice versa, that's a fact. They helped each other out.

My point is that without Timbaland having a say or offering his a.ssistance on nearly every track, the album would not have been as listenable to the people outside his key demographics
You have problem with Timb and JT collabing or something? That's what producers are for. You didn't have no complaints with Usher and his 100 producers and co-writers.
 09-07-2007, 06:19 PM         #46
Birdmane 
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u got it bad>timberlake career
 09-07-2007, 07:10 PM         #47
Playboysoldier 
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 affinity said:
Straight from :

Usher Confessions Production Credits:

Note: I added the writing credits myself using ASCAP

1. intro
produced by: james lackey & usher raymond

2. yeah! feat lil jon and ludacris
produced by: jonathan " lil jon" smith
written by:
BRIDGES CHRISTOPHER BRIAN, HAMLER GARRETT R, JEFFERSON LA MARQUIS
PHILLIPS JAMES ELBERT, SMITH JONATHAN H, SMITH PATRICK MICHAEL

3.throwback
produced by: just blaze
written by: BUTLER RICHARD PRESTON JR, DOZIER LAMONT HERBERT, HOLLAND BRIAN, HOLLAND EDWARD J, SMITH JUSTIN GREGORY, SMITH PATRICK MICHAEL, WYLIE RICHARD WAYNE

4.confessions ( interlude)
produced by: usher raymond, valdez brantley, juan johnny najera, Aaron spears and arhur strong

5. confessions part 2
produced by: jermaine durpi
co- produced by: bryan michacel cox
written by: COX BRYAN MICHAEL PAUL, MAULDIN JERMAINE DUPRI, RAYMOND USHER

6. burn
produced by: jermaine durpi
co- produced by: bryan michael cox
written by: COX BRYAN MICHAEL PAUL, MAULDIN JERMAINE DUPRI, RAYMOND USHER

7. caught up
produced by: andre harris and vidal davis
written by: the credits are weird here b/c ASCAP appears to have merged another artist as having sung a song also called "caught up"

8. superstar ( interlude)
produced by: usher raymond, valdez brantley, juan johnny najera, Aaron spears, arthur strong

9. superstar
produced by: andre harris and vidal davis
written by: BOYD JASON P D. DAVIS VIDAL, HARRIS ANDRE (US 1), HEMMINGWAY NYTICKA, HUTCHISON WILLIE M, RAYMOND USHER, TOBY MAURICE RYAN

10. truth hurts
produced by: jimmy jam & terry lewis
co- produced by: bobby ross & IZ
written by: BOBBY ROSS JR. AVILA, HARRIS JAMES SAMUEL III, IZZY AVILA
LEWIS TERRY STEVEN, RAYMOND USHER

11. simple things
produced by: jimmy jam & terry lewis
co- produced by: bobby ross avila & IZ
written by: AVILA BOBBY ROSS JR, AVILA ISSIAH, HARRIS JAMES SAMUEL III
LEWIS TERRY STEVEN, RAYMOND USHER

12. bad girl
produced by: destro music and jimmy jam and terry lewis
co- produced by: bobby ross avila & IZ
written by: AVILA BOBBY ROSS JR, AVILA ISSIAH, BARTON DON JEFFERY, GUICE WILLIAM C, HARRIS JAMES SAMUEL III, LEWIS TERRY STEVEN
RAYMOND USHER

13. that's what it's made for
produced by: jimmy jam & terry lewis
co- produced by: bobby ross avila & IZ & james "big jam" wright
written by: AVILA BOBBY ROSS JR, AVILA ISSIAH. HARRIS JAMES SAMUEL III
LEWIS TERRY STEVEN, RAYMOND USHER, WRIGHT JAMES QUENTON

14. can u handle it?
produced by: thicke & pro j
written by: GASS JAMES D, RAYMOND USHER, THICKE ROBIN A

15. do it to me
produced by: jermaine dupri
co-produced by: bryan michael cox
written by: COX BRYAN MICHAEL PAUL, MAULDIN JERMAINE DUPRI
RAYMOND USHER

16. take your hand
produced by: rich harrison
written by: HARRISON RICHARD CHRISTOPHER, HUFF LEON A, MAC-FADDEN GENE, RAYMOND USHER, WHITEHEAD JOHN CAVADUS

17. follow me
produced by: andre harris & vidal davis
written by: BOYD JASON P, DAVIS VIDAL, HARRIS ANDRE (US 1), TOBY MAURICE RYAN

Bonus Tracks:

18. My Boo (ft Alicia Keys)
Produced By: Jermaine Dupri (*IN NAME ONLY*) Ghost production from NO ID
Written By: AUGELLO-COOK ALICIA J, MAULDIN JERMAINE DUPRI. RAYMOND USHER, SEAL MANUEL LONNIE JR, SHROPSHIRE TAURIAN ADONIS

19. Red Light
Produced By: Lil Jon
Written By: HAMLER GARRETT R, HILSON KERI LYNN, MC DOWELL ROBERT W III, SMITH JONATHAN H, SMITH PATRICK MICHAEL

20. Seduction
Produced by Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis
Written by: AVILA BOBBY ROSS JR, AVILA ISSIAH, BUTLER RICHARD PRESTON JR, HARRIS JAMES SAMUEL III, LEWIS TERRY STEVEN, RAYMOND USHER
WRIGHT JAMES QUENTON

21. Confessions Part II (rmx)
Produced by: Jermaine Dupri
Co-Produced: Bryan Michael Cox
Written by: BARROW JAMAAL, COX BRYAN MICHAEL PAUL, MAULDIN JERMAINE DUPRI, MITCHELL CARL TERRELL, RAYMOND USHER


Yes, I have a lot of time on my hands - waiting for the steaks to marinate :)
I do think you could make a good argument that Confessions wouldn't have been as good of an album if JD wasn't on it, but Confessions had a quite a few quality tracks that didn't involve Jermaine and it was also interesting to note that "My Boo" was actually produced by No ID but Jermaine got production credit.

In response to the idea that Usher barely wrote anything on the album, as you can see, he was given credit for more than a majority of the tracks, particularly those tracks that had a more personal feel to them.
if it takes 6 people to write 1 song then that clearly says you didnt have much input. you didnt prove anything by this.
 09-07-2007, 07:52 PM         #48
affinity 
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 Playboysoldier said:
if it takes 6 people to write 1 song then that clearly says you didnt have much input. you didnt prove anything by this.
Did you even read what I said after the credits?

You stated:

(a) that he barely wrote anything on Confessions
(b) that without Jermaine Dupri, Confessions would be nothing

I provided the credits to prove that Usher was involved in the writing of Confessions and that there were other excellent tracks on Confessions that did not involve JD.

And as for 6 writers to write one song, this could mean various things: it could mean as you suggest that Usher had very little input on the song or it could mean that he wrote the lyrics and the others came up with the hook.
 09-07-2007, 08:40 PM         #49
affinity 
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 Quasi said:
For the record I already established that when it comes to performing and vocal talent Usher trumps JT. I'm not deeming JT as great but i'm staying on topic "who is more talented". You really think Timb would have had as much mainstream appeal without JT? Yes, Timb was already a good producer but JT gave him more mainstream appeal and vice versa, that's a fact. They helped each other out.
You deaded your argument right there as far as I am concerned. When you state that Usher is a better performer and has better vocal talent that means that you think he is more talented than Justin as a vocalist and a performer - do you honestly think that because Justin involves himself in writing such gems as "Damn Girl" (which features the line "Damn Girl" x 5 as the hook) that Justin should be proclaimed as more talented even though he doesn't sing as well and isn't as good of a performer?

If this were a discussion of who is more willing to be different and who is more willing to take risks, I would (as I already stated) definitely agree with you that Justin is the definitely the better of the two. Was FS/LS different? Certainly, but so wasn't Common's Electric Circus and it was not good at all.

 Quasi said:
You really think Timb would have had as much mainstream appeal without JT? Yes, Timb was already a good producer but JT gave him more mainstream appeal and vice versa, that's a fact. They helped each other out.
I already stated that there was some validity to that statement, but I also think you would agree that Timberlake needed Timbaland more. Timbaland already had commercial appeal before Timberlake, certainly not to the same degree, but it wasn't like Jay Z putting on Kanye. Like I said before, artists were clamoring for his beats before Justified.

 Quasi said:
You have problem with Timb and JT collabing or something? That's what producers are for. You didn't have no complaints with Usher and his 100 producers and co-writers.
A problem with collaboration? Hell no. I just have a problem with JT being proclaimed as being a more talented artist than Usher when a bulk of the credit for his music is owed to Timbaland. As to why I don't have a problem with Usher mixing up his production team and those who work with him on his albums, I feel that Usher is able to vocally mesh well with various different tracks and as a result, his album feels cohesive. Take for example Usher's new track "Make it Rain" - I wasn't really feeling it when I first heard it even though quite a few people were loving it when it came out. But the more I listened to it, the more I recognized that he was stepping out of his comfort zone and sounding decently while doing it. You may not love that track, but like that Juezl Santana track, that is going to be a stripper anthem and it will do well commercially.

 Quasi said:
Justin Timberlake actually wrote the material and he's listed as the 1st song writer on credits
This is not the case at all according to ASCAP. Timberlake was listed as the 3rd writer for the following songs: s3xyback, What Goes Around, Lovestoned, Summerlove, Until the End of Time. I could go on but I think you see the pattern.


Last edited by affinity; 09-07-2007 at 08:45 PM..
 09-07-2007, 09:08 PM         #50
Quasi 
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It does seem like you have a problem with them collaborating. Timb is constantly giving JT props and applauding his writing skills.

It takes Usher 6 producers and writers to do a song but it's a big deal when Justin only works with Timb and Nate? and again you think Usher who works with 4 at the least is more talented than JT who works with only 2, more talented? The logic?
I think you've proven the thread starter point. If he had that much talent he wouldn't need all those damn song writers.
 10 years ago '04        #51
Mike T 136 heat pts136
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If yall didnt know Justin is the Jay Z of pop, JT dosent write any of his lyrics down on paper only in his head
 09-07-2007, 11:20 PM         #52
affinity 
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 Quasi said:
It does seem like you have a problem with them collaborating. Timb is constantly giving JT props and applauding his writing skills.

It takes Usher 6 producers and writers to do a song but it's a big deal when Justin only works with Timb and Nate? and again you think Usher who works with 4 at the least is more talented than JT who works with only 2, more talented? The logic?
I think you've proven the thread starter point. If he had that much talent he wouldn't need all those damn song writers.
I don't want to sound like an @ss, but you obviously didn't read my previous post at all.

I don't have a problem with artists collaborating with other writers and producers. My problem, and I will say this for the second time, is that Timberlake is being proclaimed as a more talented artist than Usher when the bulk of the credit for the quality of his music is owed elsewhere. Yes, as previously mentioned by another poster, you could make a case that Usher would be no where if it wasn't for Jermaine Dupri. However, Timberlake can be 3rd writer on as many tracks as he wants, but he needs Timbaland caliber production to make up for what he lacks vocally whereas Usher can work with lesser known producers and still produce high quality tracks.

Is Usher a very talented song writer? Hell no! But he was involved with the song writing process and unless you were personally involved with the the album "Confessions" you have no idea to what degree Usher contributed to the songs lyrically and the same goes with me and Timberlake. For all we know 2 or 3 people said, "Hey, why don't you change that word to this" and Usher decided to give them credit on the notes. Also what do you expect Timbo to say when asked about Timberlake? "Yeah, i carried his a.ss with beats and lyrics, but he did help out with the hook and some of the lyrics and concepts for the album".

And as for the number of song writers, do you feel that artists such as Michael Jackson, Janet Jackson, Missy Elliot, Mary J Blige and Donell Jones are any less talented as musical artists because they enlisted 5 or more people to collaborate on a writing a track?

It all comes down to this, you believe that Timberlake's co-writing song abilities and co-production abilities overshadow his weak vocal capabilities and his generic performance skills and ought to trump Usher's vocal range, his performance abilities and his co-writing abilities and his lack of numerous production credits. That just doesn't wash with me and it will not.


Last edited by affinity; 09-07-2007 at 11:24 PM..
 09-08-2007, 12:57 AM         #53
Playboysoldier 
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Justin was involved with the production on FS/LS along with nate and timbo. It wasn't just him writing and them beat making and leading him. He was in the studio with both of them throughout the entire music making process. He was in the studio doing the beat making, beat boxing, vocal arragements, etc.. he multitasked on this album. I can listen to the difference in most of the songs from fs/ls to nelly furtado's loose which was basically the introduction of the timbo/danja sound. Usher never did any of that. you can sit here all you want and say "you guys weren't in the studio so you don't know what happened" but i know if 5 people besides the artist wrote the song......the artist barely wrote that sh*t especially if its basically the same song-writers for each track. usher is just a male version of britney spears. people hand him songs and he records them and dances and makes music videos. he may tweak a few melodies or lyrics and thats where his credit goes. i don't see how you can possibly say he's creative in any way when theres nothing that clearly says he is and he has no one to vouch for him at all. you're trying so hard to defend him but you have to be logical here and put things into perspective.
 09-08-2007, 03:16 AM         #54
affinity 
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 Playboysoldier said:
Justin was involved with the production on FS/LS along with nate and timbo. It wasn't just him writing and them beat making and leading him. He was in the studio with both of them throughout the entire music making process.
Yep, I've already acknowledged Justin had a hand in producing.

 Playboysoldier said:
I can listen to the difference in most of the songs from fs/ls to nelly furtado's loose which was basically the introduction of the timbo/danja sound.
Two entirely different artists, of course the sound would be different.Timbo/Danja do not have a generic sound like the Neptunes did back in 99/00. I didn't know this, but Nelly actually is really involved in her writing her own music. She appears as second writer on a lot of songs on Loose and was the only writer for her songs on her first album.

 Playboysoldier said:
Usher never did any of that. you can sit here all you want and say "you guys weren't in the studio so you don't know what happened" but i know if 5 people besides the artist wrote the song......the artist barely wrote that sh*t especially if its basically the same song-writers for each track.
Just for future reference, how much credit would you a.ssign to the 3rd writer for a song? Give me a ballpark percentage. Usher was listed as 3rd writer or better for Confessions Part II, Burn, Can U Handle It, Do it To Me and My Boo (edit: all of the songs I mentioned only had 3 writers). So, based on what you said, Usher just tweaked a few melodies/lyrics as a 3rd writer so by extension JT did about the same as a 3rd writer for his music.

 Playboysoldier said:
usher is just a male version of britney spears.


 Playboysoldier said:
i don't see how you can possibly say he's creative in any way when theres nothing that clearly says he is and he has no one to vouch for him at all.
Here's the deal: I though FS/LS was garbage. There I said it. It was lyrically weak, vocally weak and if it weren't for Tim/Danja's presence that album would have failed miserably. Was it different from what you hear from most pop groups? For sure, but so wasn't Electric Circus and I remember almost throwing out my Common collection b/c I was so pissed at him for releasing that garbage. Being different does not always = good.

Does Usher stick to a sound? yes he does. But, I don't look at artists like Alicia Keys, Mary J Blige, Brian McKnight, Erykah Badu and Maxwell etc and say, hey y'all haven't flipped up your sound, y'all aren't trying to do something different, maybe you aren't that talented. It makes no sense.

 Playboysoldier said:
you're trying so hard to defend him but you have to be logical here and put things into perspective.
How about I put this in perspective for you: if it weren't for the heavy Timbo production on Justified back in 2002 you wouldn't give a damn about him and we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Hip hop and R&B heads were all over his a.ss because of the hits he made with Timbo. Now rappers like 50 are having him on his album not because of his immense talent, but because he knows damn well that all the little girls are going to be buying Curtis on Sept 11th because Justin is on it. That's what burns me about this discussion because you are comparing him to a multi-plat artist who has set world records in terms of album sales and who has shown he has longevity on his own two and isn't a flash in the pan. If Usher didn't have substantial talent, his a.ss would be @ McD's and serving french fries with Sisqo.

Yep, Usher doesn't have the production credits or is the 2nd/3rd writer on every one of this songs, but as I have said numerous times, his talents on the stage and the booth are second to none in the R&B scene now and far surpass Timberlake's song writing/production credits.


Last edited by affinity; 09-08-2007 at 03:31 AM..
 09-08-2007, 09:31 AM         #55
Playboysoldier 
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yes i agree. usher is successful or whatever. he hires the right people to make him who he is (just like britney) to make up for his lack of talent. I loved Fs/Ls it's ok if you didn't but I loved it. Hell the critics even gave the album better reviews than confessions. for the record i never even liked confessions except for 1 song (burn) and i never bought the album nor do i have it downloaded on my pc. but i digress, although justin sold less than confessions his concert is doing way better than usher's truth tour did. It's evident reason why his album did good is beacuse he took his shirt off in every live performance which made all the lil girls go crazy.

and I believe Justin would've still made good music with or without tim/danja. they just made the music sound better. The songs he wrote for N'sync were probably my favorite music from any boyband (especially Gone). Justin would've still made good music regardless. He has an ear for good sound. Usher would've been a flop just like his very first album had JD not come along to Produce and Write My way. If it wasnt for JD, usher would've been NOTHING. He would've remaind a mediocre artist. So you can stick up for the dude all you want but it's clear as day he's a product just like britney spears.
 09-08-2007, 01:09 PM         #56
Birdmane 
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 Playboysoldier said:
yes i agree. usher is successful or whatever. he hires the right people to make him who he is (just like britney) to make up for his lack of talent. I loved Fs/Ls it's ok if you didn't but I loved it. Hell the critics even gave the album better reviews than confessions. for the record i never even liked confessions except for 1 song (burn) and i never bought the album nor do i have it downloaded on my pc. but i digress, although justin sold less than confessions his concert is doing way better than usher's truth tour did. It's evident reason why his album did good is beacuse he took his shirt off in every live performance which made all the lil girls go crazy.

and I believe Justin would've still made good music with or without tim/danja. they just made the music sound better. The songs he wrote for N'sync were probably my favorite music from any boyband (especially Gone). Justin would've still made good music regardless. He has an ear for good sound. Usher would've been a flop just like his very first album had JD not come along to Produce and Write My way. If it wasnt for JD, usher would've been NOTHING. He would've remaind a mediocre artist. So you can stick up for the dude all you want but it's clear as day he's a product just like britney spears.
you mean you aren't going to give usher credit for anything he does he has co wrote a majority of his songs.

he came up with the idea for confession and it obviously went over well and don't act as if with out n sync that justin would be as famous as he is today.

to even garner that much work from timbo/danja usher came up on his own he didn't have a machine to help him like justin did with n sync.

everyone knows that the record companies put together those boy groups
so of course justin can afford piano lessons and sh*t like that dude was making millions at a young age.

usher worked his way up lol at y'all acting like jd writes everything usher does he sing for him to.

i think as far as raw talent justin is better but as far as starting from no were and being on the same level as r.kelly in no time and making Grammy records and sh*t i have to say usher is a better R&b singer imo.
 10 years ago '07        #57
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More Talented?

Dancing: Usher > JT
Singing: Usher > JT
Song-Writing: JT > Usher
Acting: can go either way.

Looks like MR.ENTERTAINMENT wins.
 09-08-2007, 02:20 PM         #58
Playboysoldier 
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 Birdmane said:
you mean you aren't going to give usher credit for anything he does he has co wrote a majority of his songs.

he came up with the idea for confession and it obviously went over well and don't act as if with out n sync that justin would be as famous as he is today.

to even garner that much work from timbo/danja usher came up on his own he didn't have a machine to help him like justin did with n sync.

everyone knows that the record companies put together those boy groups
so of course justin can afford piano lessons and sh*t like that dude was making millions at a young age.

usher worked his way up lol at y'all acting like jd writes everything usher does he sing for him to.

i think as far as raw talent justin is better but as far as starting from no were and being on the same level as r.kelly in no time and making Grammy records and sh*t i have to say usher is a better R&b singer imo.

usher didn't write confessions. look at the song-writing credits. it took 5 people to write each song. he co-executive produced it which means he probably came up with the concept of the album.

USHER DOES NOT WRITE HIS OWN MUSIC.
 09-08-2007, 02:55 PM         #59
affinity 
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 Playboysoldier said:
usher didn't write confessions. look at the song-writing credits. it took 5 people to write each song. he co-executive produced it which means he probably came up with the concept of the album.

USHER DOES NOT WRITE HIS OWN MUSIC.
I see you still haven't responded to my question, so I'll ask it again:

Just for future reference, how much credit would you a.ssign to the 3rd writer for a song? Give me a ballpark percentage. Usher was listed as 3rd writer or better for Confessions Part II, Burn, Can U Handle It, Do it To Me and My Boo (edit: all of the songs I mentioned only had 3 writers). So, based on what you said, Usher just tweaked a few melodies/lyrics as a 3rd writer so by extension JT did about the same as a 3rd writer for his music.


Edit: Yes, I do realize now that My Boo had 5 writers, my insomniac a.ss shouldn't be writing @ 5 am. Still, Usher was listed as the 3rd writer of My Boo.

Also, Usher was 2nd writer on a 3 writer team for You Make Me Wanna which recieved a grammy award nom for vocal performance and a soul train award for best male R&B single. It was his first plat single and remained on the R&B charts for 71 weeks. He was 3rd writer on a 4 writer team for Nice & Slow and he was 2nd writer on a 3 writer team for My Way. My Way went 6X plat with these songs as singles.

As for 8701, He was 3rd writer on a 3 writer team for Pop Ya Collar, U Turn, Help Me, U Got it Bad and think he also received the same credit for U Remind Me, but I cannot confirm.


Last edited by affinity; 09-08-2007 at 03:28 PM..
 09-08-2007, 04:26 PM         #60
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I thought the question was rhetorical.

Anyway You can't really determine writing order because theres different methods of how it's listed. it can be from last name alphabetical order or for some writing order. Besides it was another poster who said something about order not me. so i don't know how you can determine who is 3rd or 2nd or 1st writer do to the order it is in. Also may i mention for the 3 ascap awards his songs have won, all 3 of the awards went to jermaine dupri. so i stand by my words. Usher doesn't write his own music. He's the male version of Britney.


Last edited by Playboysoldier; 09-08-2007 at 04:27 PM..
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