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Whose the best
Chipper 16 1.55%
Miggy 1,000 96.71%
D Wright 17 1.64%
Ryan ZImm 1 0.10%
Voters: 1034. Sorry, you cannot vote on this poll (Boxden members only)

[Click here to become a member]

Props Slaps
 08-19-2007, 11:45 PM         #301
icedout921  OP
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I'm basically mathmatically inept, but if one looks at wrights numbers over the past 3.5 months and extrapolate them over the course of a full season they come out to somewhere around.....a BA over .320, 35+ HR's, 115 RBI's, and an OPS over .975.

Unfortunately, in reality we can't wipe out a month. But even with his atrocious April (.244, 0 HR's, 6 RBI's, .681 OPS) there's a very good chance he'll end the season with career highs in HR's, OPS, SB's (already there), and fewest errors (for a full season).

Not to mention that he's emerged as a leader and one of the few steadying influences on a team where too many guys seem to have either shrunk a little bit (the Carlos'), been somewhat uneven (Reyes), or become an outright distraction (Loduca).

Honestly you cant go wrong with any I think Miggy will be a top 3 hitter in the league soon hes already pretty close and Chipper has that presence that none of the other have yet but to say this isnt a good argument is asinine. Not to meniton people are underrating Zim alot around this time last year alot of people where saying hes better than D Wright.
 11 years ago '04        #302
fat_boyy21 329 heat pts329
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Here's the news article about omar talking to miggy ... it's not too long

Did Omar Minaya Tamper with Miguel Cabrera?

Matt WatsonPosted May 2nd 2007 11:54AM by Matt Watson


Mets GM Omar Minaya was seen talking with Marlins slugger Miguel Cabrera for a good 10 minutes during Mets batting practice on Tuesday. I'd bet my house that Minaya wasn't so bold as to bring up Cabrera's free agency in 2010, but as the Sun-Sentinel points out, it's technically tampering no matter what the subject.

The Marlins almost certainly won't raise a stink about this -- team president David Samson and GM Larry Beinfest witnessed the exchange and apparently didn't try to intervene -- but if I were a Marlins fan I'd be uncomfortable. MLB should either enforce these rules or abolish them, because it's a farce the way they're selectively applied.




Last edited by fat_boyy21; 08-19-2007 at 11:51 PM..
 08-19-2007, 11:47 PM         #303
icedout921  OP
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 titanreese said:
Dude you havent proved that you were right!! Going by Offense! Miggy owns the crown! Going by Defense! Chipper owns the Crown! What you need to do is prove that the 17 people that voted Chipper or Miggy are wrong! Good Luck!
I never said outright D wright is the best.

Im making a agruement for him and letting you know all around hes the best. and @ you silly brave fans still thinking Chippers the best with the glove. Hes not even close to Zimm and Wright is better. As I said in my other post prove how chippers better I just showed yall why hes not. Chipper is a great offense player but is a below avg 3b ask any Brave fan who actually watches the games. He's always been that.


Moved to lf when his team signed Vinny Castilla ya hes great in the field.


Last edited by icedout921; 08-19-2007 at 11:48 PM..
 11 years ago '06        #304
titanreese 13 heat pts13
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 icedout921 said:
I'm basically mathmatically inept, but if one looks at wrights numbers over the past 3.5 months and extrapolate them over the course of a full season they come out to somewhere around.....a BA over .320, 35+ HR's, 115 RBI's, and an OPS over .975.

Unfortunately, in reality we can't wipe out a month. But even with his atrocious April (.244, 0 HR's, 6 RBI's, .681 OPS) there's a very good chance he'll end the season with career highs in HR's, OPS, SB's (already there), and fewest errors (for a full season).

Not to mention that he's emerged as a leader and one of the few steadying influences on a team where too many guys seem to have either shrunk a little bit (the Carlos'), been somewhat uneven (Reyes), or become an outright distraction (Loduca).

Honestly you cant go wrong with any I think Miggy will be a top 3 hitter in the league soon hes already pretty close and Chipper has that presence that none of the other have yet but to say this isnt a good argument is asinine. Not to meniton people are underrating Zim alot around this time last year alot of people where saying hes better than D Wright.
Zimm is nice but not up to par with Chip, Wright or Miggy YET!
 11 years ago '04        #305
KiNgJaMeS305|M 58 heat pts58
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ryan zimmerman is extremely underrated...
 08-19-2007, 11:50 PM         #306
icedout921  OP
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Hes having a bad year but is coming around lately.

last year

84 176 47 3 20 110 61 120 11 8 .287 .351 .471 .822

and as ive stated in this thread hes the best fielder of the bunch and is only 22.
 11 years ago '04        #307
lilsnatch770|M 102 heat pts102
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Titan it's okay you can just stop. He tried to make fun of me for going to ESPN.com and looking up stats but that is all he did too without even thinking:

David Wrights zone rating is .002 higher then Chippers. Wrights Range Factor is higher then Chippers but Chipper hasn't played in as many games. So with that being said he'll argue "Then his errors would be up" but while his errors would increase, so would his Double Plays turned, total chances and a.ssists. So even though his errors would increase so would his fielding percentage, his "range factor" and his zone rating would be higher too. So while he thinks he knows Wrights arm is faster then Chippers, in reality he has no clue at all. He reads the ESPN stats page and tries to act smart. But he isn't at all. The only thing they have on Chipper is that he gets injured a lot more. But Chipper is also a little bit older then Wright and has been playing longer. All players get injured. They even tried to say that Chipper doesn't know the pressures of playing in New York. While he isn't on the Mets or Yankees anyone who actually knows anything about baseball could tell you that Chipper has had so much success in New York that he named his son "Shea" He basically owns the Mets in New York and all the Mets fans here are just sour about that.
 08-19-2007, 11:51 PM         #308
icedout921  OP
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 lilsnatch770 said:
Titan it's okay you can just stop. He tried to make fun of me for going to ESPN.com and looking up stats but that is all he did too without even thinking:

David Wrights zone rating is .002 higher then Chippers. Wrights Range Factor is higher then Chippers but Chipper hasn't played in as many games. So with that being said he'll argue "Then his errors would be up" but while his errors would increase, so would his Double Plays turned, total chances and a.ssists. So even though his errors would increase so would his fielding percentage, his "range factor" and his zone rating would be higher too. So while he thinks he knows Wrights arm is faster then Chippers, in reality he has no clue at all. He reads the ESPN stats page and tries to act smart. But he isn't at all. The only thing they have on Chipper is that he gets injured a lot more. But Chipper is also a little bit older then Wright and has been playing longer. All players get injured. They even tried to say that Chipper doesn't know the pressures of playing in New York. While he isn't on the Mets or Yankees anyone who actually knows anything about baseball could tell you that Chipper has had so much success in New York that he named his son "Shea" He basically owns the Mets in New York and all the Mets fans here are just sour about that.
No they wouldnt idiot.

How in the world would range factor go up? Do you know what it means..

My god your dumb.

and if you knew anything about math the more you play the harder it is to keep a better f pct...

Its like Batting avg. The more chances you have the hardest it is to keep your avg higher as each hit adds less pts to your avg.

How do you not know this?

Furthermore Chipper wasnt even rated as a top 10 3b defensively last year each of the other 3 were. and wright is way better in the field this year than he was last year.


Last edited by icedout921; 08-19-2007 at 11:56 PM..
 11 years ago '04        #309
fat_boyy21 329 heat pts329
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 KiNgJaMeS305 said:
ryan zimmerman is extremely underrated...
so was vlad guerrero and a lot of other players who played for that team, but the other guys are better


Last edited by fat_boyy21; 08-19-2007 at 11:55 PM..
 11 years ago '06        #310
Manny05 1 heat pts
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 icedout921 said:
protection is one of the most overrated arguements in baseball. I think miggys the best hitter and will prolly go down as the best even though he may be moved from 3rd but because of his a.ss defense id go with D qright than Chipper.
Uh no..You need protection in order to force pitchers to pitch you. Its been proven that if you dont have a great if not a good hitter hitting behind you, chances are you're not going to get any good pitches to hit.

Look at Albert Pujols; most pitchers wont give him alot of fastballs to hit. Meaning they wont pitch to him. Now if you look at David Ortiz, he has Manny Ramirez. When Manny is on fire, they'll pitch to david, hoping they can get him out..Now if Manny was in a slump and david was on fire, they'll intentionally walk him and pitch to Manny hoping to induce a double play...

Samething could be said for Miggy..Nobody is hitting behind the guy so he's not going to get pitched to =/..

Now prove me wrong kid..Lol, i had a blast reading this whole thread. I cant believe you're going to argue that Wright is better than Miggy. Are you insane?..Sure the guy has gotten fatter but what can you expect from Miggy when he's not competing in a contending team? he knows they're not going anywhere and that n*gga is still getting pay!. Put him on a contending team this offseason, and ill guaranteed you he will lose weight and quite possibly have the best season of his career.

Oh and by the way, are you some kind of idiot to pick a player based on his defense and not his offense?..You think your team will go somewhere with a Alex Gonzales playing at 3rd base? Hell no!!!. Sure his defense is above avg, if not one of the best in the league, but Ill take a power hitter that can easily take me into the playoff along with good pitching. Im not saying Defense shouldnt be consider, but its safe to say that RBI count the most in a game compared to defense. Its good to have a player that can give you 30 HR, and avg defense. Why? simple, his offensive numbers make up for it. :rolleyes:


Last edited by Manny05; 08-20-2007 at 08:42 AM..
 11 years ago '06        #311
Manny05 1 heat pts
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 icedout921 said:
how many times do i have to son you?
Its funny how you say the usage of the word "owned" or "sonned" are only used by what you called, "net geeks".
I guess you can consider yourself a "net geek" right?
Or are you going to counter that statement with; "go fu*k yourself, the mets will own you"
 11 years ago '06        #312
Manny05 1 heat pts
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 icedout921 said:
So hes carrying his team to the playoffs?

I said they gave up alot of really good prospects for a player who does not fit their need (that being pitching) and who can leave at the end of the year. Also said he wont get them into the playoffs.
He might not be carrying his team into the playoff, but he sure as hell given his team a better chance to get into the playoffs.
- Before the Tex trade, the braves had the worst offensive numbers at 1st basemen in all of baseball. This trade not only makes them better offensively, but vastly defensively. So i dont see how the trade was overrated when in the end all you traded was prospect, nothing more..You cant expect that every prospect will unfold into being an ALL star. why not take a chance at an already establish All star 1st basemen, who by the way leaves at the end of 2008, not this year you idiot...

If anything, this trade was Brilliant. Although they didnt fix their SP needs, they can still turn it around. You cant just trade for any pitcher..I mean who was really out there? Kyle Lohse? Contreras?!? are you kidding me?

IF you watched enough baseball, you would see that every analyze agrees that this was the best trade at the trade deadline. It was not overrated, nor underrated. It was a brilliant move, and quite frankly if the braves get their pitching straight, they might just be the team to beat come the playoffs. :rolleyes:


Last edited by Manny05; 08-20-2007 at 08:54 AM..
 08-20-2007, 09:41 AM         #313
icedout921  OP
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 Manny05 said:
Uh no..You need protection in order to force pitchers to pitch you. Its been proven that if you dont have a great if not a good hitter hitting behind you, chances are you're not going to get any good pitches to hit.

Look at Albert Pujols; most pitchers wont give him alot of fastballs to hit. Meaning they wont pitch to him. Now if you look at David Ortiz, he has Manny Ramirez. When Manny is on fire, they'll pitch to david, hoping they can get him out..Now if Manny was in a slump and david was on fire, they'll intentionally walk him and pitch to Manny hoping to induce a double play...

Samething could be said for Miggy..Nobody is hitting behind the guy so he's not going to get pitched to =/..

Now prove me wrong kid..Lol, i had a blast reading this whole thread. I cant believe you're going to argue that Wright is better than Miggy. Are you insane?..Sure the guy has gotten fatter but what can you expect from Miggy when he's not competing in a contending team? he knows they're not going anywhere and that n*gga is still getting pay!. Put him on a contending team this offseason, and ill guaranteed you he will lose weight and quite possibly have the best season of his career.

Oh and by the way, are you some kind of idiot to pick a player based on his defense and not his offense?..You think your team will go somewhere with a Alex Gonzales playing at 3rd base? Hell no!!!. Sure his defense is above avg, if not one of the best in the league, but Ill take a power hitter that can easily take me into the playoff along with good pitching. Im not saying Defense shouldnt be consider, but its safe to say that RBI count the most in a game compared to defense. Its good to have a player that can give you 30 HR, and avg defense. Why? simple, his offensive numbers make up for it. :rolleyes:
Im not saying its not important however its overrated. Great players produce regardless. Bonds always put up big numbers so do people like vlad and pujols . Didnt say its not a factor but people use it too much and act like if a guy had protection his #s will jump up drastically I see no evidence of that.

As far as motatvating him on a contender again their is no proof of that. He could do as you say or he can get a huge payday and become even lazier. To me thats retarded since again you have no proof.

And for the record I never said Defense outweighs offense. However we are not comparing A gonz to these guys. We are comparing D wright who is a offense force and has put up MVP like offensive numbers this year while playing above avg defense. Big difference. To act like defense doesnt exist and isnt important is dumb as hell. But than again most of the people posting here just watch sportscenter so its obvious why yall think defense isnt important.
 08-20-2007, 09:42 AM         #314
icedout921  OP
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 Manny05 said:
Its funny how you say the usage of the word "owned" or "sonned" are only used by what you called, "net geeks".
I guess you can consider yourself a "net geek" right?
Or are you going to counter that statement with; "go fu*k yourself, the mets will own you"
Owned is not sonned ...
 08-20-2007, 09:44 AM         #315
icedout921  OP
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 Manny05 said:
He might not be carrying his team into the playoff, but he sure as hell given his team a better chance to get into the playoffs.
- Before the Tex trade, the braves had the worst offensive numbers at 1st basemen in all of baseball. This trade not only makes them better offensively, but vastly defensively. So i dont see how the trade was overrated when in the end all you traded was prospect, nothing more..You cant expect that every prospect will unfold into being an ALL star. why not take a chance at an already establish All star 1st basemen, who by the way leaves at the end of 2008, not this year you idiot...

If anything, this trade was Brilliant. Although they didnt fix their SP needs, they can still turn it around. You cant just trade for any pitcher..I mean who was really out there? Kyle Lohse? Contreras?!? are you kidding me?

IF you watched enough baseball, you would see that every analyze agrees that this was the best trade at the trade deadline. It was not overrated, nor underrated. It was a brilliant move, and quite frankly if the braves get their pitching straight, they might just be the team to beat come the playoffs. :rolleyes:
..

Again they traded their best prospects looking at this trade as only this season is shortsighted. It would be like the mets trading Lastings and Gomez for a OF to play for half the year. Ya it'd help but in the longrun it wouldnt be worth it.

Again it doesnt matter what #s he puts up if they win less with him then they do with him whats the point? Not to mention he can walk after the year if he wants to.

Baseball analysts also said the Dotel and Gange trades were great how are those working out?

Who do you get your knowledge from Tim Mccarver and Steve Phillips?


Last edited by icedout921; 08-20-2007 at 09:46 AM..
 08-20-2007, 10:31 AM         #316
ai3theanswer  OP
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1. Miggy
2. Chipper
3. Wright
4. Zimmerman
5. Phils 3B
 11 years ago '06        #317
hooligun 12 heat pts12
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miggs
 11 years ago '06        #318
Manny05 1 heat pts
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 icedout921 said:
Im not saying its not important however its overrated. Great players produce regardless. Bonds always put up big numbers so do people like vlad and pujols . Didnt say its not a factor but people use it too much and act like if a guy had protection his #s will jump up drastically I see no evidence of that.

As far as motatvating him on a contender again their is no proof of that. He could do as you say or he can get a huge payday and become even lazier. To me thats retarded since again you have no proof.

And for the record I never said Defense outweighs offense. However we are not comparing A gonz to these guys. We are comparing D wright who is a offense force and has put up MVP like offensive numbers this year while playing above avg defense. Big difference. To act like defense doesnt exist and isnt important is dumb as hell. But than again most of the people posting here just watch sportscenter so its obvious why yall think defense isnt important.
Im not saying its not important however its overrated. Great players produce regardless. Bonds always put up big numbers so do people like vlad and pujols . Didnt say its not a factor but people use it too much and act like if a guy had protection his #s will jump up drastically I see no evidence of that.
Overrated?!? What kind of world are you living in?
I wonder why the angels continuously try to find a hitter to complement Vlad?..Hmm, maybe its because no one is actually pitching to him anymore. On any other day, if Vlad had a Manny-type hitter, he would have 40 HR by now. But since no one wants to pitch to him, Vlad has simply become almost a "free swinging" hitter. He adapted to that and so far he has done good. But he could do better with a hitter behind him..same thing can be apply for Pujols and BONDS. Pujols = why are his numbers down? hmm maybe because rolen and edmond just suck..NO protection..Hmm, i wonder why Bonds has been walked soooo many times over his whole career? NO PROTECTION?
Overrated You say? haha, look again.

As far as motatvating him on a contender again their is no proof of that. He could do as you say or he can get a huge payday and become even lazier. To me thats retarded since again you have no proof.
No there might not be proof, but its common sense..If a player is playing on a team thats going Nowhere, and you're getting paid like Miggy why else would you workout when you know next season your team is not going to perform nowhere but last place? think about it..Alot of pitchers such Brad Lidge need a scenerio change and well, when they do its up to them to perform up to their standards. I mean if they go to a contending team, your only goal is to perform at your best, not avg...

And for the record I never said Defense outweighs offense. However we are not comparing A gonz to these guys. We are comparing D wright who is a offense force and has put up MVP like offensive numbers this year while playing above avg defense. Big difference. To act like defense doesnt exist and isnt important is dumb as hell. But than again most of the people posting here just watch sportscenter so its obvious why yall think defense isnt important
A Gonz was used on my behalf as an example -_-'..wow didnt think i've had to explain that to you =/. and i never stated defense wasnt important you moron. So you clearly misinterpreted my whole point =/..Teams look for more offense than defense..so to make an arguement that you'll take Wright above avg defense and decent power over Miggy's Offensive force and avg defense is absolutely idiotic. that, ICEDOUT, was my point.
 11 years ago '06        #319
Manny05 1 heat pts
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 icedout921 said:
..

Again they traded their best prospects looking at this trade as only this season is shortsighted. It would be like the mets trading Lastings and Gomez for a OF to play for half the year. Ya it'd help but in the longrun it wouldnt be worth it.

Again it doesnt matter what #s he puts up if they win less with him then they do with him whats the point? Not to mention he can walk after the year if he wants to.

Baseball analysts also said the Dotel and Gange trades were great how are those working out?

Who do you get your knowledge from Tim Mccarver and Steve Phillips?
Again they traded their best prospects looking at this trade as only this season is shortsighted. It would be like the mets trading Lastings and Gomez for a OF to play for half the year. Ya it'd help but in the longrun it wouldnt be worth it.
Umm..you proved my point again..Their best prospect, who clearly couldnt cut it at 1st base..so why else keep him when you have an All star catcher?
I mean hello, i just said they traded a prospect, who wasnt good enough for them, over an ALL STAR 1ST BASEMEN!!!why do you continue to denie that it was a great trade? if anything it has made them a better team =/ and yes in the long run it will be worth it because they have him for this season and next year and quite frankly they could win the whole thing this year and or next year. So we cant conclude its a bad trade just yet for the long run.

Again it doesnt matter what #s he puts up if they win less with him then they do with him whats the point? Not to mention he can walk after the year if he wants to.
His number does matter because lately he's been on a tear and they been winning more games lately thx to his production..and no he cant walk after this year, next year after the 08' season he can walk..god dam, you cant read kid? (and by the way, i get the feeling you're going to post some stats because they been losing aswell..so dont waste your time. we both know teams always lose and win =/..)

Baseball analysts also said the Dotel and Gange trades were great how are those working out?
- We both know that not every analyst is right all the time =/..i didnt think you be that stupid to bring that out when its common sense.

Oh and by the way, that was a very poor attempt to diss my knowledge
Tim McCarver? Steve Phillips? lmao..nah kid, its common sense and clearly you dont have it.


Last edited by Manny05; 08-20-2007 at 11:26 AM..
 08-20-2007, 11:25 AM         #320
icedout921  OP
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 Manny05 said:
Overrated?!? What kind of world are you living in?
I wonder why the angels continuously try to find a hitter to complement Vlad?..Hmm, maybe its because no one is actually pitching to him anymore. On any other day, if Vlad had a Manny-type hitter, he would have 40 HR by now. But since no one wants to pitch to him, Vlad has simply become almost a "free swinging" hitter. He adapted to that and so far he has done good. But he could do better with a hitter behind him..same thing can be apply for Pujols and BONDS. Pujols = why are his numbers down? hmm maybe because rolen and edmond just suck..NO protection..Hmm, i wonder why Bonds has been walked soooo many times over his whole career? NO PROTECTION?
Overrated You say? haha, look again.
You lose all credibility because Vlad has always been a free swinger he hasnt adopted to that. I never said it wasnt important but people act like having a bat behind you will turn you from a mediocre player into a great player again show me proof of that. Great players produce regardless. But it does help to have someone behind you. Just saying its not the diffrence between say hitting 40 and hitting 50 homers. I see no proof of that.


No there might not be proof, but its common sense..If a player is playing on a team thats going Nowhere, and you're getting paid like Miggy why else would you workout when you know next season your team is not going to perform nowhere but last place? think about it..Alot of pitchers such Brad Lidge need a scenerio change and well, when they do its up to them to perform up to their standards. I mean if they go to a contending team, your only goal is to perform at your best, not avg...
Maybe because guys like to play and try their hardest? I can show many guys on good teams who are just lazy and good players on bad teams like Carl Crawford who try their a.ss off stay in shape so they can show the world what they can do. Weak argument. . What does Lidge have to do with anything?:thumbsdow

A Gonz was used on my behalf as an example -_-'..wow didnt think i've had to explain that to you =/. and i never stated defense wasnt important you moron. So you clearly misinterpreted my whole point =/..Teams look for more offense than defense..so to make an arguement that you'll take Wright above avg defense and decent power over Miggy's Offensive force and avg defense is absolutely idiotic. that, ICEDOUT, was my point.
. Miggys defense is below avg wrights offense is above avg. Wrights defense is above avg Miggys offense is great. Understand the difference? Stop acting like D wright is some light hitting 3b. Not to mention he has speed so as I said hes better all around than Miggy which he is. If you wanna say Miggys offense outweighs that I disagree and will not agree since I dont downplay defense. When talking about winning teams whats used the most? Pitching and defense. Funny that yall all forget that.


Last edited by icedout921; 08-20-2007 at 11:26 AM..
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