How Often Did Michael Jordan Get "Hot/In the Zone" from the Perimeter?

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 08-14-2007, 09:24 AM         #161
Andre3000  OP
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 Hold That said:
Sorry but theres not a Bulls fan nor an NBA historian in the world who will tell you that Pippen was a better defender than MJ.

MJ is the All time leader for a perimeter player in Blocks. That includes Scottie Pippens position SF.

MJ is top 3 in steals all time.

MJ has lead the league in steals 4 times, more than Scottie.

MJ is a 9 time all Defensive First team.

MJ has a defensive Player of the year award.


Seriously do any Kobe fans, care to look up MJ's resume before they even start to speculate?

This was way to easy.

The sad thing is, people are constantly making excuses for Kobe. They can't even make a fair arguement for him, without an excuse about the NBA mistreating him, or he doesnt drive as much as MJ.

Well WHO's fault is that he doesnt drive as much? What does David Stern have to do with Kobe's stats? We are not talking about David Stern and Kobe's NBA Imagine we are talking about his stats.

Stop trying to sway the topic in order to make some point that has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.
When MAgic Johnson was sh*tting on Michael who did he call to check him??? :rolleyes: And there is no fu*king excuses give MJ Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, and Jordan Farmar and hes not winning no championship ket alone getting out the 1st rd. Its funny to me tho cuz if Kobe was as bad as u make him to be compared to Jordan why would One of the best coaches who coached Jordan himself actually chose to stand by him and respect him for the talent he is.
 08-14-2007, 09:28 AM         #162
currybai  OP
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pippen always guard the hardest players. Pippen is a better defender than MJ, but im not saying that MJ was not a great defender, he was, just that pippen was better.
 08-14-2007, 09:29 AM         #163
Andre3000  OP
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Kobe takes it to the hole more than u think my friend its just nights like this that have me wondering would the same calls go for Jordan if he was in his place .
 10 years ago '05        #164
Hold That 103 heat pts103
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 Andre3000 said:
When MAgic Johnson was sh*tting on Michael who did he call to check him??? :rolleyes: And there is no fu*king excuses give MJ Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, and Jordan Farmar and hes not winning no championship ket alone getting out the 1st rd. Its funny to me tho cuz if Kobe was as bad as u make him to be compared to Jordan why would One of the best coaches who coached Jordan himself actually chose to stand by him and respect him for the talent he is.
Jordan never gaurded Magic.

Magic was a 6'10 gaurd why the fu*k would Phil even put MJ on him?

So this is fu*kin fabrication. Scottie Gaurded him from start to finish. I have 91 championship tapes to back up my claims.
 10 years ago '05        #165
Hold That 103 heat pts103
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Kobe is one of my favorite players in the league, but lets not turn this into a you have to either love jordan and hate kobe or love kobe and hate jordan type of thing.

Kobe is great, i feel he will be a top 3 player ever garunteed at his pace. He is already top 10 right now IMO, and I can not name 10 players better than him.

BUT he is not better than MJ right now. Maybe he will be in the future, but as of right now, it's not even close.

This is one of my favorite games.



dropping 55 on an old MJ, Kobe took some ignorant shots in this game and couldnt miss.


Last edited by Hold That; 08-14-2007 at 09:38 AM..
 08-14-2007, 09:42 AM         #166
Andre3000  OP
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 Hold That said:
Jordan never gaurded Magic.

Magic was a 6'10 gaurd why the fu*k would Phil even put MJ on him?

So this is fu*kin fabrication. Scottie Gaurded him from start to finish. I have 91 championship tapes to back up my claims.
In the 1st game Jordan checked Magic on a few plays Im sure of it he didn't score that much but after that game they then decided Scottie would check Magic and Jordan would check Vlade Divac so that size thing didn't matter for him.
 08-14-2007, 09:44 AM         #167
Andre3000  OP
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 Hold That said:
Kobe is one of my favorite players in the league, but lets not turn this into a you have to either love jordan and hate kobe or love kobe and hate jordan type of thing.

Kobe is great, i feel he will be a top 3 player ever garunteed at his pace. He is already top 10 right now IMO, and I can not name 10 players better than him.

BUT he is not better than MJ right now. Maybe he will be in the future, but as of right now, it's not even close.

This is one of my favorite games.



dropping 55 on an old MJ, Kobe took some ignorant shots in this game and couldnt miss.
I remember that game
 10 years ago '05        #168
Hold That 103 heat pts103
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 Andre3000 said:
In the 1st game Jordan checked Magic on a few plays Im sure of it he didn't score that much but after that game they then decided Scottie would check Magic and Jordan would check Vlade Divac so that size thing didn't matter for him.
MJ probably wanted to gaurd him once or twice, to challenge himself against his buddy, but you best believe the a.ssignment from Game 1, Scottie you got Magic.

It's about matchups though, Scottie is much longer than MJ and is argueably just as good a defender, so why wouldnt you put Scottie on him?

It's not that MJ would struggle with him, it's just strategy.

I think you already know this though, your reaching a bit.


Last edited by Hold That; 08-14-2007 at 09:46 AM..
 08-14-2007, 09:46 AM         #169
Andre3000  OP
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Phil jackson says Kobe is better then Jordan
In a chat about Bryant, Jackson said he has displayed a better "overall" game than any other player he has coached. That would include, Jordan. "It's the best I've ever seen a player of mine with an overall court game," he says. "I'm asking him to do so much, and he's accomplishing it."
- Sporting News
 10 years ago '05        #170
Hold That 103 heat pts103
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 Andre3000 said:
I remember that game
Notice in this game, Jordan was not gaurded by Kobe.


This is what I was saying by coaches usually don't put their best players on the other teams best player, until it's the final minutes of the game.
 10 years ago '05        #171
Hold That 103 heat pts103
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 Andre3000 said:
Phil jackson says Kobe is better then Jordan
In a chat about Bryant, Jackson said he has displayed a better "overall" game than any other player he has coached. That would include, Jordan. "It's the best I've ever seen a player of mine with an overall court game," he says. "I'm asking him to do so much, and he's accomplishing it."
- Sporting News
Phill never coached a young MJ, when MJ was asked to do what Kobe was doing now in the 80's..

Phil aquired the team when Scottie was in his sophmore year with the Bulls and had his breakout season.

Thus MJ no longer had to rely on himself.

In otherwords, fu*k Phil.


Last edited by Hold That; 08-14-2007 at 09:53 AM..
 08-14-2007, 09:54 AM         #172
Andre3000  OP
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 Hold That said:
MJ probably wanted to gaurd him once or twice, to challenge himself against his buddy, but you best believe the a.ssignment from Game 1, Scottie you got Magic.

It's about matchups though, Scottie is much longer than MJ and is argueably just as good a defender, so why wouldnt you put Scottie on him?

It's not that MJ would struggle with him, it's just strategy.

I think you already know this though, your reaching a bit.
I get where ur getting at I havent watched the full 1st game myself Ive seen Game 2 countless times tho. And I think MJ thought he could check him the 1st game but after the result he just let Scottie take the reins. Magic played every position his speed for some1 so tall was nearly unmatched Jordan was quicker than Pippen so I guess they thought he could keep up with him . Neither shut him down tho.
 08-14-2007, 09:58 AM         #173
Andre3000  OP
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 Hold That said:
Phill never coached a young MJ, when MJ was asked to do what Kobe was doing now in the 80's..

Phil aquired the team when Scottie was in his sophmore year with the Bulls and had his breakout season.

Thus MJ no longer had to rely on himself.

In otherwords, fu*k Phil.
The talent level was still obvious tho when he practiced and carried himself on the court. By this statement its almost like ur saying he was holding back or something. Or ur saying he actually wasn't get better as he progressed.
 10 years ago '05        #174
Hold That 103 heat pts103
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 Andre3000 said:
I get where ur getting at I havent watched the full 1st game myself Ive seen Game 2 countless times tho. And I think MJ thought he could check him the 1st game but after the result he just let Scottie take the reins. Magic played every position his speed for some1 so tall was nearly unmatched Jordan was quicker than Pippen so I guess they thought he could keep up with him . Neither shut him down tho.
Nobody can shut down Magic. I think it's unfair to even bash Jordan if he did get torched by Magic.

Magic is a top 5 player EVER. Even against the best perimeter defender(i believe its Jordan) or whoever that maybe, they wouldn't be able to stop Magic. You can only contain greatness, and shut down whats around him.


I'll go as far as to say Kobe might be more talented than MJ. Yet he still doesnt have the BBALL IQ of MJ at the same age.
His shot selection is terrible, and the fact he takes so many outside jumpers is very very questionable. If he had Jordans smarts then yes he would be the greatest player of all time..

Thats the ONLY thing that is lacking in Kobe's game if you ask me, but don't get me wrong Kobe has a high bball IQ but just not as high as you know who.
 10 years ago '05        #175
Hold That 103 heat pts103
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 Andre3000 said:
The talent level was still obvious tho when he practiced and carried himself on the court. By this statement its almost like ur saying he was holding back or something. Or ur saying he actually wasn't get better as he progressed.
It's like this.

Kobe doesnt have a 50 all-time greatest player ever on his team. Yes I know this.

If you had a sidekick as good as Pip, that doesnt require to do as much work like scoring 37ppg in a season any longer or just dominate every single possesion, like MJ did and Kobe has to do.

Phil wasnt around for that, he was around for the more mature MJ who got his teammates involved because he actually had someone worthy of passing too.

As of right now, Kobe is experiencing what MJ had to go through in his first 5 years.

I hope Kobe gets an all-star worthy sidekick, I would like to see how he involves him within the offense. I also expect for him not to be AS aggressive as he is now in terms of dominating the ball totally. Or burning himself out.

With a great sidekick you can coast the first 3 quaters and go balls out in the 4th.

Rather than having to go hard all 4 because you have no help. Kobe is doing that now, MJ has already been through it.


Last edited by Hold That; 08-14-2007 at 10:07 AM..
 08-14-2007, 10:09 AM         #176
Andre3000  OP
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 Hold That said:
Nobody can shut down Magic. I think it's unfair to even bash Jordan if he did get torched by Magic.

Magic is a top 5 player EVER. Even against the best perimeter defender(i believe its Jordan) or whoever that maybe, they wouldn't be able to stop Magic. You can only contain greatness, and shut down whats around him.


I'll go as far as to say Kobe might be more talented than MJ. Yet he still doesnt have the BBALL IQ of MJ at the same age.
His shot selection is terrible, and the fact he takes so many outside jumpers is very very questionable. If he had Jordans smarts then yes he would be the greatest player of all time..

Thats the ONLY thing that is lacking in Kobe's game if you ask me, but don't get me wrong Kobe has a high bball IQ but just not as high as you know who.
As long as u can admit that thats good enough for me. And no ones IQ is as smart as Jordans back in the day. Like I said b4 if that r*pe case wouldn't have happened im 100% sure hed have at least 1/2 MVP that sh*t really fu*ked him up. Im not making that as an excuse for him tho. Players nowadays dont use common sense on/off the court and Kobe and many allstars are guilty of that today. If u look at the current state of teh NBA people are desperate for the next Jordans and these guys are really taking it to the head. n*ggas like Lebron think there the next best thing since Jordan and say stupid stuff to make there heads bigger than they should be.
 10 years ago '04        #177
mt fuji 17 heat pts17
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 Stop Showin Off said:
This is a serous question... I watched MJ starting from 87 season...

he was unstoppable when he was in the zone... no one could stop his slashing to hte basket and occasional fade away

but i ask you, how often did he get hot from the perimeter? how often was he getting his points from long range (three point line)? Not very often...

He got the bulk of his points when he was "hot" or "in the zone" from dunks, lay ups, under the rim bank shots, etc...

he rarely had one of those games when he was hitting from EVERYWHERE on the court


YOUR NOT SERIOUS......


1st off....jordan pretty much played in the zone

second......before his 1st retirement his jumper was already automatic....and remember,dude pretty much shot a fadeaway every jumper,he could post u up from 10 or 20 feet away from the basket.

after his 1st retirement dude was pretty much a jump shooter,but would and could still yam it on u,still had his ups still went to the basket wit ease.

the jordan u watched in 87 and the jordan i watched in 97 were hardly the same player.

and as far as him hitting from everywhere on the court...ask trailblazers fans about that....


know do your self a favor and get a espn the magazine subscription...your talking sports out ya a.ss again.
 10 years ago '04        #178
A.G 27 heat pts27
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 Hold That said:
Nobody can shut down Magic. I think it's unfair to even bash Jordan if he did get torched by Magic.

Magic is a top 5 player EVER. Even against the best perimeter defender(i believe its Jordan) or whoever that maybe, they wouldn't be able to stop Magic. You can only contain greatness, and shut down whats around him.


I'll go as far as to say Kobe might be more talented than MJ. Yet he still doesnt have the BBALL IQ of MJ at the same age.
His shot selection is terrible, and the fact he takes so many outside jumpers is very very questionable. If he had Jordans smarts then yes he would be the greatest player of all time..

Thats the ONLY thing that is lacking in Kobe's game if you ask me, but don't get me wrong Kobe has a high bball IQ but just not as high as you know who.
I wouldnt say his shot selection is terrible. But the weakness in his game is that he doesn't know when to stop when he goes on cold streaks.
He's under a lot of pressure in LA because of the lack of quality players around him, even if he goes on cold streaks, he has no choice but to try to get himself out of it to keep the Lakers in the game. He also relies on his jumpshot too much. If it doesnt go, he's not willing to get his inside game working.

If he keeps going at this pace, he's going to burn out, and its a damn shame that the Lakers have such an inept front office.
 10 years ago '05        #179
Hold That 103 heat pts103
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 Andre3000 said:
As long as u can admit that thats good enough for me. And no ones IQ is as smart as Jordans back in the day. Like I said b4 if that r*pe case wouldn't have happened im 100% sure hed have at least 1/2 MVP that sh*t really fu*ked him up. Im not making that as an excuse for him tho. Players nowadays dont use common sense on/off the court and Kobe and many allstars are guilty of that today. If u look at the current state of teh NBA people are desperate for the next Jordans and these guys are really taking it to the head. n*ggas like Lebron think there the next best thing since Jordan and say stupid stuff to make there heads bigger than they should be.
It's hard to stay humble when you are told you are the KING in High School. Not the Prince but the KING.

Or recieve a 90 mil contract before playing an NBA game. Or being the first to have you High School games on PPV, and ESPN.

Kobe gets alot of unfair treatment. He was accused of raping a WHITE WOMAN. Thats where it went downhill from there, not to mention he was always labled as being c*cky.

The league doesnt like Kobe, not sure why, but he's the most hated player in the NBA if you ask me.

Love him or hate him he's still Kobe Bryant.
 10 years ago '04        #180
mt fuji 17 heat pts17
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 dj mannie fresh said:
he was hitting a hell of a lot of freethrows when he was in the zone too. i remember back in 88 i was watching him go off and his defender were playing 5 feet off of him like bowen was doing lebron in the finals when he was makin a mockery of bron. watch a lot of those games jordan was scoring not off of skill but athleticism. like you said off of dunk and in close play. thats how he developed a mean post game because of his size over the smaller defender. he was posting up danny ainge at will even bird said it. ''it was laughable when they sent white boys to guard me because i thought it was disrespectful and im white''. a bulk of what jordan manhandled was non athletic white guys with FLOWING BLONDE LOCKS but seriously if arenas had played back then with his speed and range he wouldve hit 90 in a game and 70 any night he chose. and not to mention the double teams back then were pathetic. they would double u by holding their hands in the air! instead of trying to steal or tie u up. but mike was smart and effiecient. he knew he wasnt gonna shoot over double teams and tear it up from the perimeter so he does what wade does slash and try and draw contact. and when jordan developed a perimeter game in the 90s. it was because he didnt recieve the double and he had time to develope. they had to worry about his team and not him. they couldnt afford to double. and one of the other people who supposedly gave mike trouble was john starks man i love starks but like steve kerr said thats another example off 90% of the players who played back then not being able to even have a roster spot in todays game.
you said a lot of dumb sh*t in this post

arenas playing in the GOLDEN ERA??

man hard fouls and hand checks were the norm...this was before all these girlie a.ss rules they got now

arenas would have NEVER MADE A ALLSTAR GAME IN THE 80'S

look at all the great guards from that era and tell me that arenas is better then one of em??
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