The Definitive GHOSTWRITING Exposed/Research Thread (will keep updated)

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 01-09-2008, 07:21 PM         #321
Lex Lossis 
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 DoctorJ said:
From the registered copyright form...

As I have said throughout this whole thread...ASCAP is a good source but not the most accurate to find out writers, because it doesn't break down WHO does WHAT. It only lists all of the people involved in the creation of the song (meaning artists, features, producers, writers, and sampled artists). The best source I use (because I have copyrights) is using my LOC ID and doing copyright application searches on the LOC (Library of Congress) website. Even if you don't own copyrights, you can do a public record search as well, it's limited and not the whole data of the form, but is pretty informative.




To answer your easily...you legally HAVE to. All professional writers make a majority of their money from ownership of licensing (to radio, tv, etc) and performing rights (either ASCAP, BMI, or SESAC). When a ghostwriter (or writer) writes or co-writes a song, they legally OWN that track. It is illegal for an artist to copyright FULL ownership of a song if he didn't write it all...he can be sued for this. This is the biggest misconception of 'GHOSTWRITING' that alot of people have mixed up in this thread...'MOST' of the time, ghostwriters are paid cash for their writtens and are kept secret from media, titles, and sometime often album credits...BUT legally they have to be listed on the copyright application form...and this is why it is the smoking gun. Artists and labels can lie...but registered copyrights never lie.

Additionally, it isn't just 'one punchline'. According to our US Government (LOC), a person is considered an author if they wrote 3 or more written bars of lyrical text. So, you're not considered an author if you tell the rapper to change a word or 2...Just to educate you.
but n*gga I don't get it though

in this scenario:

my dude on a label, he a rapper, studio access etc...

I write 8 bars of his 16 bar verse...I gotta be mentioned in the credits? I mean who the fu*k gon' find out? ascap got n*ggas in the studio wearin tuxedos and got earpieces in they ear on some "Lex Lossis just wrote 8 bar5s for so and so. Mark this down. 10-4"

I mean wtf....
 10 years ago '04        #322
DoctorJ|m 35 heat pts35 OP
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Here's what ASCAP says:

---------------
Writers:
JONES NASIR
TURNER RONDELL EDWIN
----------------

Vs.


Here's what copyright form says:

---------------
Authorship on Application:
music, words: Jones, Nasir (Nas, pseud.); music, composition: Turner, Rondell
----------------


.....See what I mean why ASCAP files can be misleading sometimes in researching ghostwriting.



And, for your information, Rondell E. Turner is the real name of producer Ron Browz. Ron Browz is who produced 'Ether' for Nas.
 01-09-2008, 07:27 PM         #323
Lex Lossis 
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 DoctorJ said:
Here's what ASCAP says:

---------------
Writers:
JONES NASIR
TURNER RONDELL EDWIN
----------------

Vs.


Here's what copyright form says:

---------------
Authorship on Application:
music, words: Jones, Nasir (Nas, pseud.); music, composition: Turner, Rondell
----------------


.....See what I mean why ASCAP files can be misleading sometimes in researching ghostwriting.



And, for your information, Rondell E. Turner is the real name of producer Ron Browz. Ron Browz is who produced 'Ether' for Nas.
:applause: Nas writes his own sh*t. Nas is teh realest n*gga :applause:


show me what it says for whe nJada writes n*ggas verses and his own
 10 years ago '04        #324
DoctorJ|m 35 heat pts35 OP
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"but n*gga I don't get it though"
Lemme put it like this...In the scenario you gave me...If that song you co-wrote for your homie...blows up, starts getting radio play, they make a video of it, and it starts selling ---- You want to receive royalties/licensing checks (MONEY) for that right??? Well, if you aren't on the copyright form as a legal AUTHOR...you don't have rights to licensing/performing rights money.

[Each performing rights agencies have a slightly different price...but BMI (who I have experience working with) for instance --- an author received 'approximately' (depending on contract & agency and other factors) 6.8 cents per play. A hit single smash is on the air how many times a day x how radio stations x how many days...it starts to equal a decent paycheck...you get the point!] <--- As a professional writer, you're gonna want some of that money.
 01-09-2008, 07:37 PM         #325
Lex Lossis 
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 DoctorJ said:
Lemme put it like this...In the scenario you gave me...If that song you co-wrote for your homie...blows up, starts getting radio play, they make a video of it, and it starts selling ---- You want to receive royalties/licensing checks (MONEY) for that right??? Well, if you aren't on the copyright form as a legal AUTHOR...you don't have rights to licensing/performing rights money.

[Each performing rights agencies have a slightly different price...but BMI (who I have experience working with) for instance --- an author received 'approximately' (depending on contract & agency and other factors) 6.8 cents per play. A hit single smash is on the air how many times a day x how radio stations x how many days...it starts to equal a decent paycheck...you get the point!] <--- As a professional writer, you're gonna want some of that money.
damn so n*ggas is like holding a lock.


what if dude is like "nah Lex never wrote that sh*t, I did." then we on some sh*t now huh
 10 years ago '04        #326
DoctorJ|m 35 heat pts35 OP
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"what if dude is like "nah Lex never wrote that sh*t, I did."

This actually HAPPENS alot in the music business in both song writing and song production. The REAL writer can still 'try' to sue, but a legal copyright is what holds up in court. So, if you can get a person to help write a song with you and they are DUMB enough to not 'DEMAND' authorship, you can really take advantage of that cat. If they ain't considered an 'author'...they aren't entitled to any of the royalties profits later on. This is why I said earlier in this post...(say all the mean sh*t you want about Puff, Biggie, & Bad Boy)...but early on, they HELPED ALOT of up-coming cats get their start into the music business and music money by simply letting them write a verse or 2 for a hit single. Puff did it as a way to test new artists.


That is essentially how MASE was signed to Bad Boy. He was at a music conference in Atlanta slanging his demo, TRYING to find Jermaine Dupri to get a deal at So So Def. Puff and Biggie found him first, knew him priorly through knowing various other Children of the Corn members...they liked his material, and Puff & Biggie said if he can ghostwrite a HIT verse for Biggie for new group 112's first single...they will give him a deal. He did, and the rest was history.


Last edited by DoctorJ; 01-09-2008 at 07:47 PM..
 01-09-2008, 07:57 PM         #327
Lex Lossis 
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is it true Gillie wrote for Wayne and what songs?
 10 years ago '04        #328
DoctorJ|m 35 heat pts35 OP
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damn man, I've answered that like 4 times during the course of this whole post...go look through the pages man, the answer is there.

(I posted everything that Gillie The Kid wrote for others)
 01-09-2008, 09:37 PM         #329
kbree 
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look what i found...Allhiphop.com Exclusive - Jay-z Has A Ghostwriter???

JAY-Z’S GHOSTWRITER?

I would never personally say there was any validity to such a rumor, but I have to say that Wendy Williams is not me! She’s way more gully than I am. From what I understand, Wendy is stating that Jay-Z.....



 10 years ago '07        #330
*-InfiniMatic-* 5 heat pts
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...I remember seeing this before on boxden...but whatever. I knew Nas had something to do with Foxy's verse on "Affirmative Action". It just sounded like Nas
 10 years ago '07        #331
Ham Rove 3520 heat pts3520
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nas>>>>

em write for anyone?
 10 years ago '05        #332
~~S.L.I.M.~~ 3 heat pts
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Really good thread Doctor J, +1 to you man, learned a good bit about some of these legal ramifications and reaffirmed a lot that I already knew/supposed about the industry. Not shocked at all really, but some of these people are about to commit dat when they found out how the game is.

@ Nas writing "Getting Jiggy With It", he's the truth tho, he's at least keeping it original as far as his music. Ne-yo should be cakin big time with the penmanship. Didn't know Ryan Toby was responsible for some good hits.

I'm glad Babyface got a mention in this thread. No mention of him would have been :thumbsdow
 10 years ago '06        #333
Da Realness 2 heat pts
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lmao @ dudes gettin heated off the word "co wrote" that juust means dudes helped or gave ideas to the n*ggas' songs. relax lol... thats not ghostwriting.
 10 years ago '06        #334
Cezaroh 1 heat pts
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so has famous ghostwrtting for jay z been proven or is it false
 10 years ago '04        #335
Barcode 7 heat pts
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Alot of cats are in denial. Its been like this for years now.
 01-10-2008, 01:25 AM         #336
-Scar- 
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This Is A Great Thread DocJ


*edit*


About The Tristan Jones Thing Concerning Gillie....Only One I DEFINITELY Have To Dispute Is "Armed Robbery" By 8Ball & MJG.....That Was A Regional Hit They Came In The Game With....I Doubt They Knew Gillie Before They Came Out....


Last edited by -Scar-; 01-10-2008 at 01:56 AM..
 10 years ago '06        #337
*MOB*STAR* 44 heat pts44
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good sh*t..smh at the non-believers
 10 years ago '04        #338
DoctorJ|m 35 heat pts35 OP
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"i wanted to see how much of jay-z's sh*t was ghostwritten by skillz"
DJ Tamiel, Skillz obviously isn't the most truthful sometimes...but in various past interviews, he's stated that he's never written for either Jay-Z or Nas, and has the utmost respect for both of them...I believe in an older interview (I think it was on ), when asked who'd he would take in the battle, he even said something like, "I don't know man cause they are both murderers with the rhymes. They both are very intelligent mc's, and two of the best writers of our time. I wouldn't count Nas out though. But you can't go to war with a n*gga like Jay-Z man." So I wouldn't jump to conclusions and think he's writing classics for people like Jay-Z or Nas (I'm not finding anything like that in my research either).

...Google some of his past interviews up...and see what I mean; he gives quite alot of credit/respect to people like Nas, Jay-Z, Roots, Mos Def, & Talib


Last edited by DoctorJ; 01-10-2008 at 07:28 AM..
 10 years ago '04        #339
DoctorJ|m 35 heat pts35 OP
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"Only One I DEFINITELY Have To Dispute Is "Armed Robbery" By 8Ball & MJG"
Good catch Simba...I should have been a bit more clear. Not the "Armed Robbery" on their debut album 'Comin' Out Hard'...but rather the "Armed Robbery" on their album 'In Our Lifetime, Vol. 1'. (I just checked the track, and realized that neither 8ball & MJG are on the song). It's Gillie, Thorough, Toni Hickman, & Big Duke. Gillie's is the only name on the copyright form. I'm assuming based on the copyright form...Suave House had Gillie Da Kid ghost-wrote all the verses for the others. My mistake...I'll go edit it now. Thanks for pointing it out.


Last edited by DoctorJ; 01-10-2008 at 07:45 AM..
 01-10-2008, 11:02 AM         #340
REAL_NESS 
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