New York Knicks

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Props Slaps
 3 years ago '04        #10881
Born_Loser|M 81 heat pts81
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Begley

If Phil Jackson calls, Jeff Van Gundy says he’d be happy to talk hoops with the Zen Master.

Jackson is in the midst of “Round 2” of his coaching search after being turned down by Steve Kerr.

Sources told ESPN.com last week that Jackson is looking for a young coach who he can mold and has a strong knowledge of the triangle offense. As of last week, the Knicks president hadn’t shown any proclivity to look outside of his inner circle for a coach.

But Jackson can always change his mind.

If he does, Van Gundy, who is reticent about discussing current coaching openings, said on ESPN Radio’s “The Ian O’Connor Show” Sunday that he’d be happy to “talk basketball” with the Zen Master.

“If Phil Jackson ever wanted to talk basketball with me, which, listen, who knows if that's true, but if he ever did, of course I would take the time, because I'm sure I could benefit from the conversation,” Van Gundy told O’Connor.

Van Gundy and Jackson were rivals when Van Gundy coached the Knicks and Jackson led the Bulls. There was bad blood between the two, which is only natural given the intense Knicks-Bulls rivalry in the 1990s.

But Van Gundy was highly complimentary of the Knicks’ hiring of Jackson last week when speaking on ESPN Radio’s “The Herd with Colin Cowherd."

Van Gundy, though, is considered a long-shot candidate for the Knicks’ job.

Instead, Jackson is expected to talk to former players such as Derek Fisher, Tyronn Lue and Luke Walton. Former player Bill Cartwright is also considered a candidate, as are former Phil a.ssistants Jim Cleamons and Kurt Rambis.

Well-traveled head coach Mike Dunleavy Sr. and Iowa State coach Fred Hoiberg are on the Knicks’ radar, as is Denver head coach Brian Shaw.

Hoiberg is the only name mentioned above that is not considered to have a close relationship with Jackson.

At this point, Van Gundy and Mark Jackson are not believed to be serious candidates. There is also no indication that Phil Jackson himself is considering coaching the Knicks.

Van Gundy said Sunday he understands why Jackson would want to hire someone he is close with and who is familiar with the triangle offense.

“I think it makes sense for him to talk to people that he philosophically shares a great deal of agreement on,” Van Gundy told O’Connor. “But even if you haven't coached, certainly, in a triangle system, I don't think that will preclude him from looking at people, because while you may not have had expertise, or experience coaching in the triangle, most coaches believe in unselfishness, floor balance, and defensive rebounding.

“So I'm not sure that whoever he hires is going to have had to have worked for him. I think it would be a benefit if he had worked with him before, but I think a lot of people could coach in a manner in which he would find it as a positive.”
 3 years ago '04        #10882
Born_Loser|M 81 heat pts81
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Begley

Steve Kerr reached out to ex-Knicks coach Jeff Van Gundy for advice while he was sorting out his coaching options.

So what did Van Gundy tell Kerr about New York?

“I didn't see that there were any negatives for Steve coaching in New York. I think they would've had a chance to improve. I think he and Phil [Jackson] would've had a united front, and I think the buffer of Phil would've made his relationships with the front office outstanding,” Van Gundy said Sunday on ESPN Radio’s “The Ian O’Connor Show.”

Kerr was Jackson’s first and only coaching candidate. He spurned the Knicks and took a job with the Golden State Warriors earlier this week.

Golden State offered Kerr a five-year, $25 million deal and an opportunity to work closer to his San Diego-based family. The Knicks offered him a four-year, $20 million deal including incentives, a league source told Ian O’Connor.

But money wasn’t the only factor at play in Kerr’s decision. Coaching in Golden State allows Kerr to be closer to his family.

The presence of Knicks owner James Dolan also may have played a role in Kerr choosing the Warriors over the Knicks.

Marv Albert told ESPN New York during Kerr’s courtship that he felt it was important for Dolan to leave Kerr and Jackson “alone.”

Albert later told the New York Daily News that he advised Kerr, his ex-TNT broadcast partner, that things “never end well” for Garden employees. He cited the difficulties of working for Dolan, who has a history of meddling in basketball decisions.

Van Gundy did not relay the same concerns to Kerr.

The ESPN NBA analyst said he didn’t have an issue with Dolan while he coached the Knicks (1995-2001).

“You hear all these criticisms about Jim Dolan, and frankly, it may be a new time at the Garden now where I coached in a different time there. But I had what I think Steve was going to have, in that everybody who coaches needs a guy in between them and ownership to be a buffer. I had that in Dave Checketts, and Dave took my venting and frustrations and took their venting and frustrations and only shared with each other what was important to try to win,” Van Gundy said. “And I think Steve would've had the same exact thing with Phil Jackson, and I think that's a necessary thing."

Van Gundy also said that dealing with the New York media isn’t as difficult as some a.ssume. He relayed this to Kerr.

“Whenever anybody from outside of New York thinks about a New York coaching job, their immediate thought is how hard the media is. And I said, 'Listen, I didn't see it that way.' And I had my share of bad headlines and things of that nature. But I never looked at it as a negative,” Van Gundy said. “In fact, I looked at the media as a positive. I found it an interesting give and take, but also I think it kept the team on edge, too, because oftentimes you didn't always have to be the bad guy by calling a guy out because sometimes the media would do the same. And I thought the same for the fans.”

Van Gundy added that he wasn’t surprised that Kerr chose the Golden State job over working for the Zen Master’s Knicks.

“I would've actually been more surprised, and I told him this, I would've been more surprised if he would've said no to Golden State once Golden State made him an offer,” Van Gundy said. “... When you look at where his children are and where his family resides, to me, just the familiarity of that state and that conference that he worked in when he was there in Phoenix as general manager, it all aligned ... I think Steve made a very sound decision.”
 3 years ago '06        #10883
lmnop 122 heat pts122
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right now on WFAN they're saying the Knicks are trying to trade for Kevin Love...



















... who we gonna give up for dude?
 3 years ago '04        #10884
Born_Loser|M 81 heat pts81
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 Parkchester said:
right now on WFAN they're saying the Knicks are trying to trade for Kevin Love...

... who we gonna give up for dude?
hearing Shumpert & Chandler
 3 years ago '06        #10885
lmnop 122 heat pts122
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 Born_Loser said:
hearing Shumpert & Chandler
they can go

every draft has a Shumpert type of player
 3 years ago '04        #10886
Born_Loser|M 81 heat pts81
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$40,638 | Props total: 2138 2138
Based Hahn

This year's is the 13th first round pick the Knicks have traded or swapped in the last 27 years. What came of them:

As we await tonight's NBA Draft Lottery, it's always a fun (sarcasm) time to review Knicks draft history.

It should be noted that Mark Jackson is the last player the Knicks drafted who went on to be NBA Rookie of the Year. He was selected in 1987.

Since then the team has often fallen short on talent and 40% the time didn't even have a first rounder in the draft.

So what happened to all those picks since 1987? Let's review:

1988 - 11th overall pick went to Bulls in a swap of picks via the Charles Oakley trade. Bulls took Will Perdue. Knicks grabbed Rod Strickland at No. 19.

1989 - No. 22 pick went to Blazers (Byron Irvin) via Kiki Vandeweghe trade.

1993 - No. 26 pick went to Orlando (Geert Hammink) via 3-team trade (Clippers) for Charles Smith and Doc Rivers.

1995 - No. 24 pick went to Mavericks (Loren Meyer) via Rolando Blackman trade.

1998 - No. 16 pick went to Rockets (Bryce Drew) from Blazers, originally from Chris Dudley trade.

2000 - Acquired No. 18 pick from Raptors in Dudley trade, then flipped it later to 76ers for rights to Mirsad Turckan.

2001 - No. 18 pick went to Rockets (Jason Collins), originally to Suns in Luc Longley trade.

2002 - No. 7 pick (Nene) went to Nuggets via Antonio McDyess trade.

2004 - No. 16 pick (Kirk Snyder) went to Jazz, originally to Suns in Stephon Marbury trade.

2006 - No. 2 pick (LaMarcus Aldridge) went to Bulls in Eddy Curry trade.

2007 - No. 9 pick (Joakim Noah) went to Bulls as swap in Curry trade. Used No. 23 to take Wilson Chandler.

2010 - No. 9 pick (Gordon Heyward) went to Jazz, via Suns, via Marbury trade.

2012 - No. 16 pick went to Rockets (Royce White) via Jared Jeffries/Jordan Hill salary dump trade.

2014 - Lottery pick goes to Magic (Dwight Howard trade) via Nuggets via Carmelo Anthony trade.

So that's a lot of first round picks that went unused. The most damage, so far, came from the McDyess, Marbury and Curry trades. Four of the five picks lost turned out to be lottery picks. Of course the Anthony trade still has to be judged because of the lottery pick status. The Nuggets also can swap 2016, which goes to the Raptors via the Andrea Bargnani trade.

The Knicks won the NBA's first lottery drawing in 1985 (Patrick Ewing), but haven't won a draft lottery since the new system was implemented. There is a 0.7% chance their slot -- owned by the Magic -- comes up at No. 1.

But it won't...right?
 3 years ago '04        #10887
Born_Loser|M 81 heat pts81
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Marc Stein & Ramona Shelburne

New York Knicks president Phil Jackson continues to send out signals that he's in no rush to hire a coach until he can seriously discuss the position with Oklahoma City's Derek Fisher, according to sources close to the process.

Sources told ESPN.com on Sunday that Jackson is planning to proceed with a deliberate coaching search after the Knicks, convinced they were getting Steve Kerr, watched their runaway No. 1 candidate choose the Golden State Warriors instead.

Fisher's interest in coaching remains a matter of debate, with Oklahoma City coach Scott Brooks telling the New York Daily News over the weekend that it wouldn't surprise him if the 18-year-veteran decided to play on for one more season. Either way, Fisher is trying to deflect all questions about his future -- as a coach or front-office executive -- until after the playoffs, hoping to limit distractions as the Thunder prepare to face the San Antonio Spurs in the Western Conference finals starting Monday night.

During the last round of the playoffs, Fisher said, "I would tell people to allow me to finish my career as a player before they give me another job after that. It's humbling, just to think about people thinking of me in that manner, especially while I'm still playing. [But] I promise you this is the last thing on my mind at this point. I really haven't thought about it that much. Hopefully there's a lot of basketball left to be played this season for sure. Once that's done we'll go from there."

Sources say that in addition to Fisher, the Knicks still have interest in Denver Nuggets coach Brian Shaw but do not currently plan to ask the Nuggets' permission to speak with him. Because league rules restrict teams to offering only cash or draft picks as compensation for coaches, and not players, sources say New York fears it likely can't meet the Nuggets' demands if it were to try to get Shaw out of his contract.

Jackson is a longtime Shaw fan who, sources say, would have had the Nuggets' coach atop his wish list (along with Kerr) had Shaw been a coaching free agent this summer. But the Knicks' barren cache of draft picks would appear to snuff out any hope of extricating Shaw from the last two years of a three-year contract that averages roughly $2 million per season. Shaw posted a 36-46 record this season with the injury-riddled Nuggets. New York, for the record, doesn't have a first-round pick to offer any team in any deal until 2018.

Jackson's preference since ousting Mike Woodson has been hiring a coach he's worked with in the past, either as a player or a former a.ssistant like Shaw. But sources say that the limited options at his disposal after missing out on Kerr could prompt the 11-time champion coach to start broadening his approach.

ESPN The Magazine's Chris Broussard confirmed over the weekend that Jackson has discussed the vacancy with veteran NBA coach Mike Dunleavy. Sources say Jackson has not ruled out a sit-down with Knicks fan favorite Mark Jackson, who has rejoined ESPN as a broadcaster after his dismissal by the Warriors.

Former NBA head coach Kurt Rambis, who worked as an a.ssistant to Mike D'Antoni with the Lakers last season, and current D-League developmental coach Luke Walton of the L.A. D-Fenders are on Jackson's short list as well. But sources say Rambis and Walton are more likely regarded as potential a.ssistants for the eventual head coach, with another of Jackson's former players with head-coaching experience -- Bill Cartwright -- having already received an interview for what was presumed to be a spot on Kerr's bench.

Los Angeles Clippers a.ssistant coach Tyronn Lue, who played briefly under Jackson as a Laker, has also been mentioned repeatedly as a name on Jackson's radar.

The Knicks, sources say, remain convinced that they were on the brink of a deal with Kerr when Stan Van Gundy unexpectedly took the Detroit Pistons' offer to serve as their coach and team president last week, which led to Golden State making a renewed pitch to Kerr that ultimately trumped New York's offer.
 3 years ago '04        #10888
Born_Loser|M 81 heat pts81
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Berman

SAN ANTONIO — Spurs president R.C. Buford, considered the preeminent executive in the NBA, says Phil Jackson doesn’t need his advice as he plows through a new job.

Buford recently was named 2014 Executive of the Year, and his Spurs are three wins a way from their sixth Finals berth since 1999.

“Phil knows how to build teams,’’ Buford told The Post at AT&T Center Monday night. “He’ll be terrific. We’re are all chasing what he built and developed. I don’t think he needs anyone’s help.’’

As a coach with the Bulls and Lakers, Jackson won 11 titles. Buford’s Spurs have captured four championships and were three seconds away from a fifth last June in Miami. The Spurs have posted 15 straight 50-win seasons.

While Warriors consultant Jerry West says Jackson has his work cut out for him in adjusting from coach to executive, Buford disagrees.

“Team building is team building,’’ Buford said. “He’s obviously had a big influence in several different circumstances that have been successful. There’s all kinds of limitations in building a team and he’s faced with some with their current situation, but I don’t know if there’s been a finer team builder. I don’t know how you can predict how successful he would be, but I wouldn’t bet against his credentials.’’

After the Knicks hired Jackson for five years and $60 million in March, some NBA insiders wondered why owner James Dolan didn’t take half that moolah and make a run at Buford or Oklahoma City GM Sam Presti, a Buford disciple. It’s no surprise they are battling in the Western Conference Finals.

According to a source close to Buford, the Kansas native likely would not have been interested in taking Dolan’s money to move to New York and away from the great Gregg Popovich.

“He believes he’s got the greatest job in the league and works with the greatest people,’’ the source said. “Why would he want to leave that?’’

During the Chicago draft combine last week, Detroit’s new president/coach Stan Van Gundy said he hopes to have a sitdown with Spurs officials to see how to run a franchise the right way. Van Gundy hoped Buford would be willing because the downtrodden Pistons compete in a difference conference. But that meeting doesn’t seem likely, considering Buford’s secretive ways.

During a 45-minute Q & A in the Austin American Statesman, Buford wouldn’t reveal his tricks. “I can’t tell you – if I told you, everybody would be doing it,’’ he said.

But he said the way he picks players is a science.

“We have a specific list of deal-breakers that are non-negotiable,’’ Buford said. “If players want New York or LA, they’re not going to come here. … If someone’s more interested in winning scoring titles, this probably isn’t the place for them.’’
 3 years ago '04        #10889
Born_Loser|M 81 heat pts81
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just putting this out there, Kings are willing to give up the 8th pick for a veteran player
 3 years ago '04        #10890
Born_Loser|M 81 heat pts81
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just read this in some article that i don't believe for a sec but i'll put it on here for sh*ts and giggles


Klay Thompson & David Lee for Melo
 3 years ago '14        #10891
#NotRambis 106 heat pts106
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 Born_Loser said:
just read this in some article that i don't believe for a sec but i'll put it on here for sh*ts and giggles


Klay Thompson & David Lee for Melo
if melo was guaranteed to leave and they include barnes I say do it

 3 years ago '14        #10892
#NotRambis 106 heat pts106
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 Born_Loser said:
just putting this out there, Kings are willing to give up the 8th pick for a veteran player
please lord let them take jr

 3 years ago '04        #10893
Born_Loser|M 81 heat pts81
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Begley

LeBron James can opt out of his contract at the end of this season to test free agency. He can do the same thing after next season.

The New York Knicks, of course, are well aware of this.

In a perfect world for Phil Jackson & Co., LeBron opt outs out his contract after next season and tests free agency in the summer of 2015.

New York is expected to be well under the cap at that point and should have the money to make a serious play for James.

But money alone won't be enough to lure James to New York, according to ESPN.com's Brian Windhorst. The Knicks will also need to prove that they're ready to contend for a title.

Writes Windhorst:

When James looks at his menu of options next month he will focus on being with a team that is built to contend for championships right now. Not in two years. Not after new teammates get their first taste of the playoffs. Now.

At age 29 and in his prime, James is not in the business of playing for a team that is still developing. He wouldn't have much interest in losing a season while a coach is learning the ropes, either. James is very focused on adding titles and being on a team that has the expectation to be a yearly contender, essentially a situation like he has been in for the past four seasons.



Windhorst later adds:

If he were to make a dramatic jump again at this point in his career, it would almost certainly take a situation like he chose in 2010, when the Heat offered an incomparable package of star power and title readiness. It likely would take some sort of dream scenario again to get James to even think about moving on.

It's hard to see the Knicks putting themselves in position to contend year in and year out by the summer of 2015.

If they re-sign Carmelo Anthony, maybe they can sell James on a tandem of he and Anthony (and a first-round pick, J.R. Smith, Tim Hardaway Jr., Iman Shumpert) being surrounded by accomplished veterans willing to accept veteran's minimum contracts.

If you're James, would you be interested in that situation?

Woody "proud" of Knicks record: Ex-Knicks coach Mike Woodson reflected on his time with the team earlier this week on ESPN Radio's "Mike & Mike" show.

"I feel good about what my staff and I did in New York. We took a team that was struggling, got them into the playoffs," Woodson said. "The next year we went with some old heads like Jason Kidd and Kurt Thomas and Rasheed and Camby and an unknown guy like Pablo Prigioni and we put a helluva team together. Glen Grunwald, along with Mr. Dolan and the front office people, and we were able to win 54 games. … I was proud of that team."

Woodson, who is holding a golf tournament in Las Vegas in late July, also reiterated that he hopes to get back into coaching next season.

"Extremely quick. I would like to get back as soon as possible," the coach said.
 3 years ago '04        #10894
Born_Loser|M 81 heat pts81
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Berman

Mallory Edens, the NBA Draft lottery sensation and 18-year old daughter of the Bucks new owner, is actually a diehard Knicks fan. She attended about 15 to 20 games at the Garden this season and according to a close friend she possesses a trove of Knicks apparel.

Edens, who sat on the dais representing the Bucks at Tuesday’s lottery, is a senior at Trevor Day School on the Upper West Side, graduating next month and is in her fifth season on the girls’ basketball team. She also runs track and plans to compete for the cross-country team at Princeton next fall, according to the friend.

Edens sat next to Sixers’ legend Julius Erving at the lottery when the Bucks landed the second pick and became an overnight Internet sensation.

Wesley Edens, a Manhattan hedge-fund investor, bought the Bucks last month and has said he will keep the team in Milwaukee. The family has had Knicks’ season tickets in recent years. Edens said jokingly to his children he would make them “burn’’ their Knicks gear, but never went through with the threat. Edens has three older siblings. Two brothers and a sister.

“The family are huge Knicks fans, so they’re not making the kids give that up,’’ the friend said. “She has tons of Knicks stuff. She’s allowed to own it and wear it. The dad is not in any way stopping them from being Knicks fans also.’’

However, the friend added, “Since her father bought the team her heart is also now in Milwaukee and will cheer hard for the Bucks.”

Edens’ Twitter following rose from 250 followers to more than 45,000 in two days.

“It’s like obviously weird for her, but she’s not like panicking,’’ the friend said. “She’s not like an attention seeker so it’s a bit weird, but she’s generally pretty well-composed.’’

Her two favorite Knicks are Tim Hardaway Jr. and Carmelo Anthony, the friend said. The Bucks finished with the league’s worst record but now have a shot at adding either Jabari Parker, Andrew Wiggins or Joel Embiid with the draft’s second pick.

As for how she was selected to represent the Bucks, Mallory said after the lottery ended, “[My father] sort of brought it up in passing one time and I thought he was joking and then here I am so I suppose it wasn’t a joke.’’
 3 years ago '04        #10895
Born_Loser|M 81 heat pts81
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Begley

Mike Dunleavy Sr. acknowledges that he’s probably on the “outside” looking in when it comes to the Knicks coaching search. But he still believes he has a good shot at landing the job, partially due to his knowledge of the triangle offense.

“I hope so,” he said earlier this week on ESPN Radio’s “The Herd with Colin Cowherd.” “One of the things for me, as a player, I played in the triangle system down in Houston. It was kind of left over from when Tex Winter coached there. All my teams, I’ve run it for us as a transition set for us. Like, ‘Hey on misses we’re going to run out of this into the triangle.' And part of that was also the fact that I was thinking at some point in the playoffs we’re going to run into Phil’s teams. And by the time we get there my guys will know the triangle very well to be prepared to play them. So maybe I’m the outside guy from the other guys that he’ll talk to: former players for him who have played in the system and other guys who have coached under him in the system. But at least I do know the system.”

Dunleavy Sr. talked to Jackson last week about the coaching job, sources confirmed to ESPN The Magazine’s Chris Broussard. A source told Broussard that Dunleavy is not at the top of Jackson's list, but is indeed a candidate.

Dunleavy, who has coached four NBA teams over 17 years, is also a candidate for the Los Angeles Lakers' open job.

Jackson would prefer a younger coach who he can mold in the same manner that Pat Riley developed Erik Spoelstra in Miami, sources have told ESPN.com’s Marc Stein and Ramona Shelburne.

So Dunleavy doesn’t fit that mold, which is why he himself acknowledged that he’s an “outside guy.” But Dunleavy and Jackson have a relationship having coached against one another for years. According to Broussard, the two stayed in touch frequently while both were in Los Angeles.

Dunleavy told Cowherd that he thinks Jackson will “gravitate” toward running the triangle but that there is room for the pick and roll and other traditional basketball sets in Jackson’s playbook.

“Even for Phil’s teams, late in games, a lot of times, he ran his plays “52” “53” which is Kobe Bryant pick and roll or Michael Jordan. Or “32, 33” elbow catches for Pippen and Jordan. So he mixes other things into the triangle as well,” Dunleavy said. “As a point of reference or basic flow offense, it’s a great offense.”

Dunleavy admitted to being a little surprised that guys without coaching experience such as Steve Kerr and Derek Fisher were considered leading candidates (at different times) for the Knicks job.

"A little bit, sometimes," Dunleavy said when asked if he was surprised by the influx of inexperienced coaching candidates. "But again, guys who are point guards are the closest thing to being coaches on the floor. So it depends on what your expectations are of those guys. Typically I still think there is a learning curve. And the other tough thing, of course, is depending on what market you’re starting out in media-wise and how tough that might be. So it just depends. If you’re going into a program where they say we’re going to give you a couple years to have that learning curve that maybe you would have gotten if you were an a.ssistant coach some place, you make mistakes on the run, that type of thing. It depends on the expectations and what you’re supposed to deliver in your first year."
 3 years ago '04        #10896
Born_Loser|M 81 heat pts81
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word is Thibs would leave Chicago if he could get his dream job....and i'm posting this here so take a fu*king guess what team would that be
 05-23-2014, 05:03 PM         #10897
Kitsch 
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 Born_Loser said:
word is Thibs would leave Chicago if he could get his dream job....and i'm posting this here so take a fu*king guess what team would that be
 3 years ago '07        #10898
I Am The Truth 1 heat pts
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 Born_Loser said:
word is Thibs would leave Chicago if he could get his dream job....and i'm posting this here so take a fu*king guess what team would that be
yo I'd roll up to Chicago & drive Thibs to NYC my damn self if he wants the Knicks job.
 3 years ago '04        #10899
Born_Loser|M 81 heat pts81
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Begley

He hasn’t been offered the job, but Rick Fox said he’d welcome the opportunity to coach the Knicks. Still, he believes, like many Knicks fans, that Phil Jackson is “the best guy” to be head coach.

"I'm hoping -- I keep saying to Phil Jackson -- he needs to coach the team. He's the best guy for it. He's the holy grail of coaches,” Fox said in an interview with Bloomberg Television. “If he needed my support in some way, it'd be hard to turn him down. Or if he needed me to step in and do the job myself, I'd definitely welcome that."

Fox played under Jackson in Los Angeles and won three titles with him. The two dined in Manhattan last week, though it is unclear what they spoke about. Fox is currently an analyst for NBA TV and has never coached before.

Jackson is believed to be looking for a young coach who he can mold, comparable to what Pat Riley did in Miami when he hired Erik Spoelstra. Jackson would also like a coach with a strong knowledge of the triangle offense.

Fox knows the offense well. Another ex-Laker, Derek Fisher is a leading candidate for the job. Jackson and Fisher are expected to talk after the conclusion of the Oklahoma City Thunder's season. Oklahoma City trails San Antonio, 2-0, in the best-of-seven Western Conference Finals.

Luke Walton, Tyronn Lue, Jim Cleamons, Kurt Rambis and Mike Dunleavy Sr. are also candidates for the opening.
 3 years ago '08        #10900
AC_89 147 heat pts147
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Luke Walton lol
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