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 9 years ago '04        #2541
Born_Loser|M 81 heat pts81
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"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."

-- Albert Einstein

After spending the last 24 hours alone at home with his head coaching thoughts, Knicks president Donnie Walsh choose Mike D'Antoni over Mark Jackson. I'm stunned and baffled by the decision.

More from the New York Post

"Not only are the Knicks known to shoot themselves in the foot, they often crouch down to get a better aim," zaps column contributor Brian McGunigle.

Reached in Cleveland where he was working Game 3 of the Celtics-Cavaliers series as an ABC commentator, Jackson was disappointed, yet remained upbeat, falling back on his devout beliefs.

"In the Bible, God says, 'I will not withhold any good things from those who serve me,' " he said. "Therefore, following that equation, if I don't get something I want, something I think will be really great, then it isn't good for me. That's the way I view it. He's looking out for me. He knows what's best."

No disrespect to D'Antoni's success in Phoenix, basketball expertise, communication skills and outgoing personality, but he's clearly not the lid for this pot of incompatible, undisciplined, slow-footed players.

Eddy Curry's cardiologist already has organized a protest stroll.

If not Jackson, who Walsh told me was definitely his backup choice had D'Antoni preferred to coach the Bulls, Cesar Milan would've made perfect sense. More than anything, the Knicks need a strong pack leader. By all accounts emanating from Phoenix, D'Antoni made very few demands, thus consequences were almost nonexistent when details were ignored and defense wasn't employed.

Walsh is well aware of D'Antoni's inability to extract so much as a consistently pedestrian defensive effort from Amare Stoudemire. That discredits both the player and the coach. Walsh brushes off such criticism. He has always held D'Antoni in high esteem.

Obviously, Walsh is convinced D'Antoni is capable of becoming more of a disciplinarian and will radically alter (eliminate altogether?) his run-'n-stun style to match the Knicks' currently unmovable misfits.

That's good, because D'Antoni's system is predicated on putting the ball in the care of Steve Nash. Let's get real. I know Nash is an easy mark defensively, but the two-time NBA MVP was D'Antoni's system in Phoenix (abetted by Stoudemire, Shawn Marion and a host of lethal 3-point snipers), same as Tim Duncan has been the Spurs' system for 11 seasons.

Last time I had the stomach to sneak a peek, the Knicks' makers of plays (mostly for themselves) comprised of the surgically-rehabilitating Stephon Marbury, Jamal Crawford and Nate Robinson.

It's well documented how D'Antoni felt about Marbury after coaching him briefly in 2003-04; the Suns were better off without him. The Knicks are still hung over from Marbury's intoxicating acquisition. How ironic that one of the prime wheelers behind that deal (Jerry and Bryan Colangelo coordinated the swindle) that helped sabotage the Knicks is reunited with Marbury (next season, anyway) for the franchise's next attempted reconstruction.

When it became obvious Jackson was a legit candidate to fill the Knicks' coaching cavity, sources say Marbury reached out to him and pledged allegiance to his unraised flag. Determined to resurrect his career and upgrade his reputation, Marbury promised to do whatever was asked and vowed to show up in camp in great physical and mental shape.

Still, in the opinion of every league person I regularly consult in such situations — excepting Walsh, the only mind that matters — Jackson was the ideal fresh voice to reach Marbury, Curry, Zach Randolph, Crawford, Quentin Richardson (another D'Antoni reject), Jerome James and Jared Jeffries.

Who would've had a better chance to get Knicks players to quit their low-down ways for the next year or two until cap restrictions subside? The point god whose motivating message was well received by the vast majority of teammates during his 17-year playing career? Or the coach who had it made in the shade because of Nash and the Suns are excited is gone?

Like Barack Obama, Jackson would've been a more effective choice for change because of his inexperience.

Could the Suns be the logical next step for Jackson? D'Antoni's exodus frees up $8.5 million over the next two seasons to invest in a replacement. Sources maintain Jackson very much appeals to owner Robert Sarver, president of basketball operations/GM Steve Kerr and trusted veterans whose opinions both men seek out in such situations.

The Bulls also remain an option. A couple of weeks ago, Jackson enjoyed a positive interview with GM John Paxson and personnel director Jay Hillock.

Finally, column contributor George Caballero reports Dolan, "as part of D'Antoni's pact, has agreed to buy him out once he realizes what he's gotten himself into."
 9 years ago '05        #2542
WaveDoe 12 heat pts12
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wHY IS THERE SO MANY KNICK FANS ON BOXDEN?
 9 years ago '04        #2543
Born_Loser|M 81 heat pts81
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 Jabo1091 said:
wHY IS THERE SO MANY KNICK FANS ON BOXDEN?
loyalty
 9 years ago '05        #2544
WaveDoe 12 heat pts12
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 Born_Loser said:
loyalty
Word! I mean not only are we the laughing stock of the NBA but we are the laughing stock of sports in general.

It wasn't like this with the giants.
 05-11-2008, 01:00 PM         #2545
cpalmer1 
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 Born_Loser said:
loyalty
and stupidity.

36 years and counting.
 9 years ago '06        #2546
DRuNk 24/7 6 heat pts
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 Born_Loser said:
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."

-- Albert Einstein

After spending the last 24 hours alone at home with his head coaching thoughts, Knicks president Donnie Walsh choose Mike D'Antoni over Mark Jackson. I'm stunned and baffled by the decision.

More from the New York Post

"Not only are the Knicks known to shoot themselves in the foot, they often crouch down to get a better aim," zaps column contributor Brian McGunigle.

Reached in Cleveland where he was working Game 3 of the Celtics-Cavaliers series as an ABC commentator, Jackson was disappointed, yet remained upbeat, falling back on his devout beliefs.

"In the Bible, God says, 'I will not withhold any good things from those who serve me,' " he said. "Therefore, following that equation, if I don't get something I want, something I think will be really great, then it isn't good for me. That's the way I view it. He's looking out for me. He knows what's best."

No disrespect to D'Antoni's success in Phoenix, basketball expertise, communication skills and outgoing personality, but he's clearly not the lid for this pot of incompatible, undisciplined, slow-footed players.

Eddy Curry's cardiologist already has organized a protest stroll.

If not Jackson, who Walsh told me was definitely his backup choice had D'Antoni preferred to coach the Bulls, Cesar Milan would've made perfect sense. More than anything, the Knicks need a strong pack leader. By all accounts emanating from Phoenix, D'Antoni made very few demands, thus consequences were almost nonexistent when details were ignored and defense wasn't employed.

Walsh is well aware of D'Antoni's inability to extract so much as a consistently pedestrian defensive effort from Amare Stoudemire. That discredits both the player and the coach. Walsh brushes off such criticism. He has always held D'Antoni in high esteem.

Obviously, Walsh is convinced D'Antoni is capable of becoming more of a disciplinarian and will radically alter (eliminate altogether?) his run-'n-stun style to match the Knicks' currently unmovable misfits.

That's good, because D'Antoni's system is predicated on putting the ball in the care of Steve Nash. Let's get real. I know Nash is an easy mark defensively, but the two-time NBA MVP was D'Antoni's system in Phoenix (abetted by Stoudemire, Shawn Marion and a host of lethal 3-point snipers), same as Tim Duncan has been the Spurs' system for 11 seasons.

Last time I had the stomach to sneak a peek, the Knicks' makers of plays (mostly for themselves) comprised of the surgically-rehabilitating Stephon Marbury, Jamal Crawford and Nate Robinson.

It's well documented how D'Antoni felt about Marbury after coaching him briefly in 2003-04; the Suns were better off without him. The Knicks are still hung over from Marbury's intoxicating acquisition. How ironic that one of the prime wheelers behind that deal (Jerry and Bryan Colangelo coordinated the swindle) that helped sabotage the Knicks is reunited with Marbury (next season, anyway) for the franchise's next attempted reconstruction.

When it became obvious Jackson was a legit candidate to fill the Knicks' coaching cavity, sources say Marbury reached out to him and pledged allegiance to his unraised flag. Determined to resurrect his career and upgrade his reputation, Marbury promised to do whatever was asked and vowed to show up in camp in great physical and mental shape.

Still, in the opinion of every league person I regularly consult in such situations — excepting Walsh, the only mind that matters — Jackson was the ideal fresh voice to reach Marbury, Curry, Zach Randolph, Crawford, Quentin Richardson (another D'Antoni reject), Jerome James and Jared Jeffries.

Who would've had a better chance to get Knicks players to quit their low-down ways for the next year or two until cap restrictions subside? The point god whose motivating message was well received by the vast majority of teammates during his 17-year playing career? Or the coach who had it made in the shade because of Nash and the Suns are excited is gone?

Like Barack Obama, Jackson would've been a more effective choice for change because of his inexperience.

Could the Suns be the logical next step for Jackson? D'Antoni's exodus frees up $8.5 million over the next two seasons to invest in a replacement. Sources maintain Jackson very much appeals to owner Robert Sarver, president of basketball operations/GM Steve Kerr and trusted veterans whose opinions both men seek out in such situations.

The Bulls also remain an option. A couple of weeks ago, Jackson enjoyed a positive interview with GM John Paxson and personnel director Jay Hillock.

Finally, column contributor George Caballero reports Dolan, "as part of D'Antoni's pact, has agreed to buy him out once he realizes what he's gotten himself into."


*sniff* *sniff*

smells like a peter vescey article

 05-11-2008, 04:15 PM         #2547
cpalmer1 
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 DRuNk 24/7 said:
*sniff* *sniff*

smells like a peter vescey article

Vescey has no creditiblity. like Charles Barkley onces said "if Peter Vescey said or wrote it it's 95% false"
 9 years ago '04        #2548
Born_Loser|M 81 heat pts81
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 DRuNk 24/7 said:
*sniff* *sniff*

smells like a peter vescey article

yes it is, lmfao
 05-12-2008, 07:28 AM         #2549
cpalmer1 
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It's a new Knicks world now. Dolan has promised commissioner David Stern he would spend what needed to be spent to turn this thing around. And Dolan may have been advised by Stern to offer up his money but not his basketball advice. Even Dolan admits he's more a hockey guy.


Expect big changes with this team.:applause:
 9 years ago '04        #2550
Born_Loser|M 81 heat pts81
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fu*k yeah,
 9 years ago '04        #2551
Born_Loser|M 81 heat pts81
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now i see this other site has Knicks drafting OJ with the 5th pick

(was looking for the day the lottery picks get chosen...May 20th for those who were wondering too)

hmm, they changed the time this year too, wow...used to be at 7, now it's at 8
 05-12-2008, 10:48 AM         #2552
cpalmer1 
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 Born_Loser said:
now i see this other site has Knicks drafting OJ with the 5th pick

(was looking for the day the lottery picks get chosen...May 20th for those who were wondering too)

hmm, they changed the time this year too, wow...used to be at 7, now it's at 8
You seen this one?


Mayo has too much baggage, he's not a franchise corner stone. I like him, but I think he's a Tim Thomas type of player. Plays for the money and not for the game.

I'd rather get CDR or Brandon Rush. if we cant get a PG.
 9 years ago '06        #2553
DRuNk 24/7 6 heat pts
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 cpalmer1 said:
You seen this one?


Mayo has too much baggage, he's not a franchise corner stone. I like him, but I think he's a Tim Thomas type of player. Plays for the money and not for the game.

I'd rather get CDR or Brandon Rush. if we cant get a PG.

Mayo had exceeded my expectations at USC...he wasnt surrounded with the quality of team like ma boy D Rose had in memphis...but he wasnt as selfish a player as i thought hed be....he has a great feel for the game, and plays under control....

i wouldnt mind seein the knicks land Mayo if they're out of position to land Rose....

Rush seems like hes going to be a nice role player in the league...bruce bowen type if he fulfils his MAX potential





my draftboard with this new system thats going to be implemented would be....

With a Top 5 pick:
Rose
Mayo
Bayless
-------
If We Trade Down:
Gallinari
Westbrook
Greene
Augustin
Batum
JaVale McGee
 9 years ago '04        #2554
Born_Loser|M 81 heat pts81
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 cpalmer1 said:
You seen this one?


Mayo has too much baggage, he's not a franchise corner stone. I like him, but I think he's a Tim Thomas type of player. Plays for the money and not for the game.

I'd rather get CDR or Brandon Rush. if we cant get a PG.
i saw a similar one, Lopez wasn't in the top 5 in the one i saw and they had Gordon going to Memphis...can't wait for this sh*t though so i can finally see where we officially stand..last day of class for me is the day after the lottery selection and i just have to do a 1-2 min speech the next day for a final so i can put some thought in who we could possibly get once i do some "youtube research" and check out the talent that might be available

but about Mayo....my original thought was the samething about Mayo, another ballhog wannabe Jordan, but for some reason i see something more than that


Last edited by Born_Loser; 05-12-2008 at 01:44 PM..
 9 years ago '04        #2555
Born_Loser|M 81 heat pts81
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and Drunk...what about Hibbert if we trade down?

especially with the strong rumors of Curry being gone?
 9 years ago '06        #2556
Blah 17 heat pts17
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 DRuNk 24/7 said:
Mayo had exceeded my expectations at USC...he wasnt surrounded with the quality of team like ma boy D Rose had in memphis...but he wasnt as selfish a player as i thought hed be....he has a great feel for the game, and plays under control....

i wouldnt mind seein the knicks land Mayo if they're out of position to land Rose....

Rush seems like hes going to be a nice role player in the league...bruce bowen type if he fulfils his MAX potential





my draftboard with this new system thats going to be implemented would be....

With a Top 5 pick:
Rose
Mayo
Bayless
-------
If We Trade Down:
Gallinari
Westbrook
Greene
Augustin
Batum
JaVale McGee
yea im with you on the top 5 but i'll replace Bayless with Gallinari hes a slasher with a 3 Point Shot .. might work under Mike f*gToni his Defense is suspect.
Rose is objective #1 tho

so i got it
Rose
Mayo
Gallinari

best case scenario we draft Rose and pick up a shotblocker later on
cause we all know curry couldnt get a block if he was fu*king wearing springs
 9 years ago '06        #2557
Blah 17 heat pts17
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 Born_Loser said:
and Drunk...what about Hibbert if we trade down?

especially with the strong rumors of Curry being gone?
na Hibbert is sluggish i rather see DeAndre Jordan in a Knicks Jersey
 9 years ago '04        #2558
Born_Loser|M 81 heat pts81
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The parent companies change — Gulf & Western, Paramount, Viacom, Cablevision — but the guiding principle of business affairs at Madison Square Garden remains the same. For as long as I can remember, the guys who run basketball's supposed Mecca have always outbid the market for the services of the biggest available name.

In this case, it's Donnie Walsh hiring Mike D'Antoni at $24 million for four years.

It used to be that big money went to a big name who'd won championships, coaches like Pat Riley and Larry Brown (the latter being a disaster, of course, though I didn't hear complaints at the time). But Mike D'Antoni's teams — abundantly talented and much-praised for basketball aesthetics — never won a conference title, much less a championship.

I won't mind, a couple of years from now, writing how wrong I was. That's how much I think of Walsh. But I don't get this one, not at all.

There are only two reasons for D'Antoni to have done this deal. First, the money. Second, he no longer believes he can win with the Phoenix Suns. And if I'm in Walsh's position, that bothers me.

I don't care if Steve Nash and Shaquille O'Neal are getting old. They're still Steve Nash and Shaquille O'Neal. Same for Grant Hill. There's also Boris Diaw, 26, Leandro Barbosa, 25, and Amare Stoudemire, also 25, who just happens to be the most talented big man in the game. A basketball man has all that, and he leaves to coach the Knicks of Stephon Marbury and Zach Randolph?

D'Antoni's agent has been quoted as saying, "Mike's looking forward to the challenge."

Really, now, what's the truer test of a coach? Making the Knicks appear respectable in a conference where 38 wins gets you a playoff berth, or finally getting the Suns to the Finals? Seems to me he's found a way out of the bigger challenge.

The Knicks won't be any good — authentically good, I mean — until they get under the cap and purchase a free agent like LeBron James. That'll take at least three years. In the meantime, you have every right to wonder about D'Antoni's system, dubbed "Seven Seconds or Less" in a fine book by Jack McCallum. With the Suns, D'Antoni wanted a good shot in seven seconds. With the Knicks, seven seconds is the over-under for Eddy Curry making it across half-court.

It has long been fashionable to bemoan the ugly '90s style powerball (ironically, it was the guy with the prettiest-ever game, Michael Jordan, who did more for isolation offense and bruising defenses than even Pat Riley and Chuck Daly). Everybody likes to see teams run and gun. But if such a scheme were really the basis for a championship, the And1 traveling squad would be in the Finals every year. Now as ever — the Suns had to find this out the hard way — you don't win on style points (though the Spurs, with Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker, never got nearly enough). You win on defense. And the fact of the matter is, Mike D'Antoni's Phoenix team didn't play much.

Take Stoudemire, for instance. You can't tell me he lacks the talent to play defense. He just doesn't bother. Whose fault is that, though? Part of it has to be D'Antoni's.

Defense, most of it, anyway, is about desire and coaching. If you don't have the desire, you need some coaching. A good coach makes you fear the personal consequences of not playing defense. A great coach makes you feel a need to defend; he's able to sell you on the idea that defense is connected to the greater glory. D'Antoni, for all the talent at his disposal, didn't view defense as a priority. That's just a fact.

Mark Jackson would've been a better choice. I would hope his friendship with Jeff Van Gundy (still considered an enemy by Cablevision) had nothing to do the Knicks passing on his services. Donnie Walsh has hired former players lacking in experience as head coaches before, and Jackson seemed ideally suited for this franchise at this time. He may have actually motivated Marbury, if only for a year.

This belated endorsement comes with a declaration of my own prejudices, of course. Jackson is a New Yorker, imbued with that now-ancient sense of basketball as the city's game. But he was also a great playmaker, having run the point for two very good powerball teams, the Knicks and the Pacers. More than that, though, I'd like to think he had acquired a sober sense of the treacherous intramural politics in and around Madison Square Garden.

I fear Mike D'Antoni will come by this knowledge the hard way. There's a reason the Knicks have to outbid everybody. At the Garden, six mill per isn't what it's cracked up to be
 9 years ago '06        #2559
DRuNk 24/7 6 heat pts
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 Born_Loser said:
and Drunk...what about Hibbert if we trade down?

especially with the strong rumors of Curry being gone?

i get mixed reviews about hibbert....he is a very smart high basketball IQ bigman that could fit into a "Pass-First" style of play...but he just doesnt seem too fleet of foot...his biggest knock is that he might be too slow for the nba...


i dont know bout the Curry rumors...everytime walsh has ever spoken of curry he talks about things he likes about his game...2 years ago, curry was argueably an all-star for us...i think if D'Antoni can RUN HIM INTO SHAPE, we could be alright with curry (at least just for next year)

i truley believe that Zach is the guy that Donnie Walnuts is tryna rid himself of...

he has a longer contract than CurryMan....and a few teams actually had some interest in him last year...

i could actually see us swinging that bucks trade to get a Defensive minded running style bigman (Gadzuric), and a shooter on the wing (Simmons)....maybe even gettin a charlie V somehow

not that these are trades THAT I personally want to see...it just seems like moves that could fit our system...
 9 years ago '06        #2560
DRuNk 24/7 6 heat pts
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Guys Who SHOULD Be On The Knicks Radar and Can REASONABLY Be Had:

*Based on fitting the system and takin this team in the direction which we are heading (Salary Cap Wise)*

Feel Free to Add On...



In no particular order other than by the position.....

PG's

Jose Calderon (wishful thinkin, only if we cant land rose)
Steve Blake
Kyle Lowry
Shaun Livingston
Luke Ridnour
Delonte West
Earl Watson
Chris Duhon
Sergio Rodriguez (Euro prospect w/ the Blazers)
Sasha Vujacic
Keeyon Dooling
Beeno Udirh

SG's

Gerald Green
JR Smith
Bonzi Wells
JJ Red!ck
Francisco Garcia

SF's

Mike Miller
Adam Morrison
Matt Barnes
Micael Pietrus
James Posey
Jarvis Hayes
Bostjan Nachbar

PF's

Charlie V
Chris Wilcox
Kenyon Martin
Troy Murphy
Charmin Frye
Boris Diaw

Centers

Marcus Camby
Dan Gadzuric
Jeff Foster
Darko Milicic
Brad Miller


Last edited by DRuNk 24/7; 05-12-2008 at 03:08 PM..
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