Bonds Hit 715.... White People Mad As Hell Right Now

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Props Slaps
 05-31-2006, 02:22 AM         #221
1angrypinoy  OP
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I don't care if Bonds took steroids or not 'cause steriods didn't/doesn't
help him see the ball. If Bonds did take steroids most of MLB
players probably were/are taking it the same as Bonds, so this evens
things out. What separates Bonds is his skill level at being able to
make contact with the ball.

Anyway, people forget that the 1994 season was cancelled. If that didn't
happen, Bonds would most likely have already passed Aaron.
 12 years ago '04        #222
Gtownkid04 
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 StudiosConnect. said:

Regardless of what Bonds has done, regardless of whether he cheated to achieve the record, regardless of whatever performance-enhancing drugs he might have ingested or injected, the past few weeks have been as close to a witch hunt as America has seen since Salem, Mass., was a member of the colonial big leagues in the 17th century.

Whether Bonds can catch Aaron is an open question. In either case, under normal circumstances, whether Bonds hits 756 home runs or retires a little short of that mark, his legacy will be secure.

Needless to say, however, these are not normal times. Pundits and politicians alike have been grandstanding on the issue, with some calling for an asterisk next to Bonds' records and his statistics. Others go much further, fanatically demanding that Bonds and his controversial numbers be stricken completely from the record books in some illogical attempt to rewrite history.

As the editor of "The 2006 ESPN Baseball Encyclopedia" -- the only up-to-date, in-print encyclopedia that covers all of baseball history -- I have more than a passing interest in this controversy. And I have one thing to say to everyone who wants to treat Bonds' records differently from the myriad other records in our book or in any other baseball book:

Enough is enough.

The outcry against Bonds and his records should seem just plain silly when viewed in the context of baseball history. Bonds' "record" is no more "tainted" than many -- if not most -- of the great records in baseball history. And while Bonds enjoyed several significant advantages on the way to 715, so did every other great home run hitter.

Babe Ruth had the incalculable advantage of playing his whole career during a segregated era, when he and every other white hitter didn't have to face great black pitchers such as Smokey Joe Williams, Bullet Joe Rogan and Satchel Paige. Nor have their batting statistics compared to legendary blackball sluggers such as Josh Gibson, who many feel might have broken Ruth's single-season home run record. Ruth also enjoyed playing all of his games during the daytime while having to travel no further west than St. Louis and no further south than Washington, D.C. Furthermore, Ruth didn't have to face the fresh arms and blazing fastballs of the great relief pitchers who would intimidate so many hitters decades later.

Hank Aaron benefited from hitting in the many cozy neighborhood ballparks still in use in the 1950s and 1960s, just like contemporary sluggers have benefited from playing in the retro ballparks. Though Aaron's home parks in Milwaukee and Atlanta were not neighborhood parks, he did play in Atlanta-Fulton County Stadium when it was known as the "Launching Pad," giving him an overall home-park advantage for his career. Aaron took advantage of the newly implemented designated hitter rule at the end of his career, adding 22 home runs to the lead he had over Ruth. And, paradoxically enough, the great Henry Aaron also benefited from a lack of true integration in the game, as the level of discrimination in baseball meant that it was extremely slow to allow African-American pitchers to play a prominent role -- even as great black hitters such as Aaron, Willie Mays and Roy Campanella were knocking the stuffing out of the ball. Finally, Aaron played much of his career in an era when offense dominated in the NL, just like Bonds during the so-called "steroids era."

None of the above takes anything away from the greatness of Aaron, Ruth or Bonds. All players play in the era that they were born into, and all of them play with significant advantages and some disadvantages. As one might expect, great records tend to be set during years and eras when the natural advantages point in a particular way, aiding one group of players while simultaneously penalizing others.

Perceptions of baseball history are slippery, especially for those who have gone around the bend over the usage of steroids and the offensive explosion of the 1990s and early 2000s. Consider these facts for a moment. The top-scoring decade in modern NL history (i.e., since 1901) was from 1921 through '30 with 9.8 runs per game. From 1991 through 2003, NL scoring was 9.2 runs per game. Forget steroids, what kind of performance enhancers were those guys using in the 1920s?

The American League saw 10.4 runs scored per game during 1931-1940, a modern high for a league. That mark still stands, even after the offensive peak of 1991-2000 (AL: 9.9) and even when counting 2001-03 before testing as a "decade" (AL: 9.7). Yet when AL scoring hit exactly that same average with 10.4 runs per game in 1999, the hue and cry about how "arena baseball" had made a mockery of the game was unbelievable.

From 1951 through '60, NL hitters slammed 1.8 home runs per game, barely different from the 1.9 per game hit from 1991 through 2000. What was the hidden secret, other than the prodigious talent of the great sluggers such as Aaron and Mays?

So all of the hand-wringing over the integrity of baseball's records boils down to this: During 1991-2003, home runs were hit at a rate higher than ever before, and some of that increase had to do with performance-enhancing drugs. Big deal. The common belief that the new steroid-testing regimen of 2004 caused offense and home runs to drop is a fallacy. The fact is that scoring and home runs both peaked in 2000 and had dropped approximately 8 percent in the following three years.

Steroids were only one part of the offensive equation, and probably not the most important element. There were several other major reasons and a dozen minor factors that also contributed to the barrage of long balls. Furthermore, all steroid usage was not against the rules, depending on the year in question and the drugs taken. And even when it was, MLB deliberately chose to look the other way when the game needed to bring back the fans and the record-setting rules-breakers were packing ballparks.

So if the "blame" for the home run binge can't be laid upon steroids, then why the outrage? Because using steroids was cheating? C'mon. Really? Cheating has been part of major league baseball since the beginning, and a review of baseball history indicates that pitchers have been far bigger cheaters than hitters for most of that time. Cooperstown is full of pitchers who cheated for decades; let's get a retired U.S. senator to investigate their careers.

Many older baseball fans fondly remember the great 1968 season, when Hall of Famer Bob Gibson seemed invincible -- at least until he faced the Detroit Tigers in Game 7 of the World Series. Gibson posted an unbelievable 1.12 ERA that year, going 22-9 with 28 complete games and hurling 13 shutouts. (Gibson's ERA is widely, though erroneously, believed to be the best in modern history.) In response to the dearth of offense after that "great" season, baseball owners lowered the height of the pitching mound from 15 to 10 inches.

[Barry Bonds] is not a perfect person, nor has his career been without controversy. As such, he fits perfectly into the imperfect history of the national pastime.

In a recent panel discussion about steroids and Barry Bonds, hosted by Bob Costas on HBO, Gibson complained about that rule change, calling it "illegal" and implying that all batting records set after 1968 were suspect. Gibson conveniently failed to mention, however, that his career season was possible only because those same owners had made another rule change in 1963, when they enlarged the strike zone from the armpits to the top of the shoulders. Giving this huge advantage to pitchers in a high-strike environment immediately caused scoring to drop 15 percent to deadball-era levels in the National League.

In 1968, Gibson enjoyed pitching in a league in which offense was lower than at any time since 1908. Why hasn't that made the pitching records set during the mid-1960s suspect? Or "illegal," to adopt Gibson's standard?

Let's take another prominent example: Joe DiMaggio's 56-game hitting streak. It is often cited as the paradigm of an unimpeachable record by those who feel that the integrity of all home run records has now been destroyed. Did you know that DiMaggio's legendary streak was prolonged by a highly unusual stratagem, employed solely to help preserve the streak? In the bottom of the eighth inning of Game 38, with a runner on base and one out and New York leading by two runs, Yankees slugger Tommy Henrich laid down a sacrifice bunt. Why? To avoid hitting into an inning-ending double play with the hitless-on-the-day DiMaggio on deck.

Henrich hit 31 home runs that year, sacrificing only seven other times and grounding into only six DPs. He never would have laid down that bunt if not to guarantee DiMaggio would get another chance to extend the streak. Does that call into question the integrity of that record?

Barry Bonds is unquestionably one of the greatest players ever to play the game. He is also one of the greatest home run hitters in history. He will end up holding many important records. He is not a perfect person, nor has his career been without controversy. As such, he fits perfectly into the imperfect history of the national pastime.

Enough is enough.

wow, most truth about baseball i've ever read in such a concise article. baseball = who can cheat the best. always has, always will. sh*t aint gonna change. america's pastime is corrupt, and now all these white people are atacking someone for "cheating" when what he's done isn't even technically disallowed? i love the hypocrisy.
 12 years ago '06        #223
panero 
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it doesnt matter he will never be acknowledeged one the truth comes out. he's a coward of a man. along with mcgwie, sosa, palmerio and who ever else they will never be recognized
 12 years ago '04        #224
Gtownkid04 
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so i guess half of the hall of fame is cowards?
 12 years ago '04        #225
Mysonne 1 heat pts
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 Javon23 said:

[pic - click to view]


once more!
 05-31-2006, 10:14 AM         #226
ill800  OP
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 Gtownkid04 said:
so i guess half of the hall of fame is cowards?

please explain that to me. you trying to say that everybody cheated? thats absurd. that long a.ss article posted...what a buncha crap. talkin bout hittin streaks being prolonged. how is that cheating? they werent injecting humane growth hormones and other illegal substances like your boyfriend barry. stupidest sh*t ive read in a while.
people trying to make excuses for barry. hes a cheater. just like macguire and palmeiro. we aint in their business because they arent indicted number one. number two they aint even playin the game anymore. but this has been said countless times. you guys know absolutely nothing about baseball or its history.
@ you callin out hall of famers. yea willie mays, mickie mantle, joe dimaggio, ted williams...yea those guys are big cheats. they are american hereos for a reason. who the fu*k is barry bonds compared to these guys? you do not understand the integrity and history of the game. thats what people really get mad about with bonds. all you dudes see is black and white. and while i will agree that racism definitley still exists today, i dont believe it is the sole motivation for the bonds investigation. his hook up got popped and snitched him out. they got a buncha evidence to prosecute this guy with. thats why it is as big a.ss it is. its a huge scandal. bonds just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. and wtf is a number anyway? bonds got more homeruns then the top 3 but it doesnt make him a better ball player. there is much more to the game than merely hitting homeruns. i dont like barry. i dont like the way he plays the game. i dont like how he carries himself. what he did was astonishing. he may be one of the best contact/line drive hitters to play the game. but his numbers are tainted, just like the others... giambi, mcguire, palmeiro. forget about the hall of fame for these cheats.
 12 years ago '05        #227
deltat2 
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who carez, lets shoot all the haterz
 05-31-2006, 10:29 AM         #228
Mcmasterlock  OP
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yea they want to say he on drugz because he beat the white peoples legend babe Ruth, sometimes white people is a trip
 12 years ago '04        #229
Javon23 265 heat pts265
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 Mcmasterlock said:
yea they want to say he on drugz because he beat the white peoples legend babe Ruth, sometimes white people is a trip
Preach!!!!!!!!!
they dont talk about the cocaine era either
the era mr ruth was playing
 05-31-2006, 11:17 AM         #230
RicFlair  OP
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 Mcmasterlock said:
yea they want to say he on drugz because he beat the white peoples legend babe Ruth, sometimes white people is a trip

you are wrong, they say he on drugz because he ADMITTED to taking roids
 12 years ago '04        #231
Gtownkid04 
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 ill800 said:
please explain that to me.


Baseball's Oldest Profession, Revisited

By Jeff Kallman

Spare me the moral posturing, please. Knock it off with the yammering about these stinking cheaters, and not just because steroids basically cannot enhance a baseball player's field or plate performance.

(I say again: name one steroid proven to accentuate bat speed, hand-eye coordination, or vision or any skill faculty past mere muscle mass. Or, ask yourself why it was that Barry Bonds sharpened his own hand-eye coordination and vision -- he has had the reputation for the best batting eye in baseball tracing back to long before he was involved with the Fabulous BALCO Boys -- whereas Jason Giambi and Gary Sheffield, never mind Jose Canseco and the as yet unidentified small host of others, did not. Or did I miss where Sheffield went from great to off the charts?)

Because actual cheaters should get away with it? No, because a) the Spruce Juicers are probably cheating their health more than the game, and b) anyone who thinks cheating in baseball began in earnest with the Fabulous BALCO Boys is in dire need of a history lesson. Class is now in session.

1) So hated was Ty Cobb that, on the 1910 season's final day, when he was neck-and-neck with Napoleon Lajoie for the American League batting crown, the St. Louis Browns' third baseman played his position as far back as feasible to help Lajoie back into the batting crown by letting him drop bunts guaranteed to be beaten out for hits. Fat lot of good that did. The actual race ended in a dead heat, but American League president Ban Johnson, "seeking an essential truth in lieu of true facts," as Bill James phrased it, "made up a couple of extra hits for Cobb and declared him the champion, anyway."

2) The 1919 World Series. Yes, children, it is possible to cheat to lose, particularly when there's a payoff in the thousands awaiting you at the end.

3) Groundskeepers in old Shibe Park, aware enough that the Philadelphia Whiz Kids (the pennant-winning 1950 Phillies, young and fresh and built for speed) included a particularly expert baseline bunter, future Hall of Famer Richie Ashburn, sculpted the third base line in such a fashion as to ensure that Asburn's expertise at dropping dying bunts up that line didn't bump into foul territory.

4) Entire books have been written around the idea that the 1951 New York Giants -- years before anyone ever heard of the "eye in the sky" grandstand scout -- had an a.ssistant in the stands stealing signs, as they made their magnificent comeback to force a playoff for the pennant with the Brooklyn Dodgers.

5) With a newspaper egging them on, Ohio fans actively and unapologetically stuffed the All-Star Game's ballot box, including multiple voting, to make the 1957 game into the Cincinnati Reds versus the American League. Commissioner Ford Frick intervened and substituted three players (Willie Mays, Henry Aaron, and Stan Musial) for three Reds (George Crowe, Wally Post, and Gus Bell). And within a year, the fans would lose the All-Star Game vote until the 1970s.

6) Preacher Roe, Brooklyn Dodgers left-handed pitcher and as elegant a competitor as ever pitched in Flatbush, admitted after his retirement, in an article for Sports Illustrated, "The Outlaw Pitch Was My Money Pitch." Once, he faced Eddie (Slow, Slower, Slowest) Lopat in a World Series game. "Them two fellas certainly make baseball look like a simple game, don't they? Makes you wonder," Yankee manager Casey Stengel marveled. "You pay all that big money to great big fellas with a lot of muscles and straight stomachs who go up there an' start swinging, and they give 'em a little o' this and a little o' that and swindle 'em."

7) The mid-to-late-1960s Chicago White Sox, at the reputed insistence of manager Eddie Stanky (he who once kicked a ball out of Phil Rizzuto's glove when Rizzuto otherwise had him cold on a play at second base), liked to store the game baseballs in a cool, damp place. "You had to wipe the mildew off before the game ... and put them into new boxes," former White Sox backup catcher Jerry McNertney told his Seattle Pilots teammate, Jim Bouton. "The idea, of course," Bouton wrote in Ball Four, "is that cold, damp baseballs don't travel as far as warm, dry baseballs, and the White Sox were not exactly sluggers."

8) Bouton also revealed that there were indeed umpires in his day who would call the balls and strikes based upon personal grudges, singling out Ed Runge as regards a Yankee rookie named Steve Whitaker. Whitaker apparently beefed a little too snippily over a Runge call behind the plate. The word getting back to the Yankee dugout, said Bouton, was that the opposing pitchers figured out the strikes didn't have to be "too good" if Whitaker was at the plate. Then Mickey Mantle prevailed upon Whitaker to kiss and make up with the veteran ump. He did, and saw a lot less dubious strikes for his trouble.

9) Mantle's fondest desire at the end of the line, in 1968, was to finish ahead of Jimmie Foxx on the all-time home run list. Denny McLain, who pretty much had his 31st win in his hip pocket, decided to make Mantle's wish come true. "He's told me to tell you what's coming," Detroit catcher Bill Freehan told the Commerce Comet as he approached the plate. "He wants you to get it." Mantle simply waggled his bat at the spot where he most liked to connect, McLain obliged, and Mantle drove one into the Tiger Stadium upper deck. (The on-deck hitter, Joe Pepitone, not hearing the original exchange, thought McLain was in such a good mood that he might get a groove pitch to hit. Pepitone waggled his bat to the spot where he liked to connect ... and McLain smashed three straight unhittable fastballs past him.)
 12 years ago '04        #232
Gtownkid04 
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10) Whitey Ford not only knew a few tricks of his trade in his final few seasons and used them (including catcher Elston Howard scraping balls on his shin guard buckles before returning them to the mound), but it became such second nature to him that he finally did it in an Old Timers' Game. "I got tired of getting my jock knocked off," Ford admitted later.

11) Norm Cash, whose lifetime batting average wasn't even close to the .361 by which he won the 1961 American League batting championship, admitted after the season that he had used a loaded bat. He even cooperated with a magazine article in demonstrating just how he loaded the bat. Revealed subsequently: he used the same bat in 1962. And his batting average collapsed by (you can look it up) 118 points.

12) Bobby Richardson, a neat-fielding, clean-living Yankee second baseman (he was so unapologetic a Christian that he was nicknamed, not necessarily derisively, "the Right Reverend"), needed one hit to finish 1959 with an even-.300 batting average. "We don't have a single .300 hitter on this team," manager Stengel said, "so if you get a hit your first time up, I'm taking you out."

Stengel was not the only one pulling for Richardson. The Baltimore Orioles, facing the Yankees on that final day, were only too willing to let the Right Reverend get it. Starting pitcher Billy O'Dell also happened to be a fellow South Carolinian and an offseason hunting buddy of Richardson's, according to Bill Madden's Pride of October: What It Was To Be Young And A Yankee: "Don't worry, I'll be throwing one right in there for you." Moments later, up came Brooks Robinson: "I'll be playing real deep at third if you want to bunt." Catcher Joe Ginsberg: "I'll tell you what pitch is coming." Even first base umpire Ed Hurley was in on the action: "If you hit it on the ground, just make it close at first."

Richardson, to Madden: "I got my pitch and hit a line drive to right field that Albie Pearson made a diving catch on. Pearson was one of my closest friends in the game -- we'd spoken together at church! He must have been the only person in the ballpark who didn't know I was supposed to get my hit!"

13) Two words: Gaylord Perry. "Of course, everybody thinks Gaylord Perry means spitball," wrote former major league pitcher Milt Wilcox, briefly a Perry teammate in Cleveland, for Ron Luciano's The Fall of the Roman Umpire. "And everybody is right. I remember after he had pitched one day, I looked at catcher Ray Fosse's glove. There was a big old ring of Vaseline around the rim of the pocket. Either Gaylord's pitches splashed a lot, or Fosse was loading it up for him."

14) Four words: Tommy John, Don Sutton. Once, when John was a Yankee and Sutton an Angel, they went against each other in a game in Anaheim. George Steinbrenner was watching and figured Sutton out quickly enough. He phoned the Yankee dugout to manager Lou Piniella, demanding Piniella get Sutton thrown out. The account in Bill Madden and Moss Klein's Damned Yankees is priceless.

"George, do you know what the score is?" Piniella replied. (The Yankees were ahead, 1-0.) "If I get the umpires to check Sutton, don't you know that the Angels are going to check TJ? They'll both get kicked out. Whatever they're doing, TJ is doing it better than Sutton. So let's leave it alone for now." The Yankees went on to win, 3-2. "Tommy John and Don Sutton," Madden and Klein quoted an unnamed scout. "If anyone can find one smooth ball from that game, he ought to send it to Cooperstown."

15) Cork's actual effectiveness is very much open to debate, but that stops no one from believing it does, as you might have fathomed in 2003 when Sammy Sosa was caught with a plug. When Hillerich and Bradsby sent a touring exhibit of historic bats around major league parks, in 1983, a group of Seattle Mariners were admiring one of Babe Ruth's bats until Dave Henderson, according to Dan Gutman (It Ain't Cheating If You Don't Get Caught), spotted something amiss: the round end of the bat did not match the barrel's wood. The end also had a crack the rest of the bat didn't. "That's a plug!" Henderson hollered. "This bat is corked."

As a matter of fact, the Sultan was a real corker: he was in fact the half-inspiration for then-American League president Ban Johnson imposing a policy outlawing "trick bats" in 1923 ... after Ruth was found using a bat made of four pieces of wood glued together.

"As I see it, wrote Bill James, in The New Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract, "nothing could be more typical of Ruth than to use a corked bat if he could get by with it. Ruth tested the limits of the rules constantly; this was what made him who he was. He refused to be ordinary; he refused to accept that the rules applied to him, until it was clear that they did. Constantly testing the limits of the rules, as I see him, was Babe Ruth's defining characteristic."

And thus be it ever that boys will be boys. Even in the Great and Glorious Era of the Golden Age of the Grand Old Game.
 12 years ago '04        #233
Rufus The Stunt 
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Classic thread right here
 12 years ago '04        #234
Gtownkid04 
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 deltat2 said:
who carez, lets shoot all the haterz
you're the type fu*king i t up for the rest of us with legitimate arguments
 05-31-2006, 12:10 PM         #235
ill800  OP
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ok. another longgg article. im very familiar with all that stuff. but what does it have to do with barry bonds? people are making excuses for him. i can find just as many long drawn out articles that disagree with those writers. he used performancing enhancing drugs to go after the biggest record ever. you compare spitballs to that? its well known that some atheletes play dirty. they want to win that bad. managers also want to win because there job is on the line and money is always an issue. fans never really took to guys like ty cobb who played dirty. people dont like cheaters. with barry, it was never about winning. its all about bonds and his quest for recognition in baseball history. this is a wayyy bigger deal than loaded bats and vaseline in gloves. i dont see how almost any of those events can be considered on the same scale as with what barry has done. what about cal ripkens final all star game? now im a huge ripken fan but i think they mighta gave that to him. and you know why they did? it is out of respect. so thats cheating? it all comes down to how you played the game in the end. what kind of teammate were you? has bonds ever won a world series? hes done some great things and i feel sorry for him that he tainted his career. he got too greedy in the end. just because everyone else is doing it thats no excuse.


Last edited by ill800; 05-31-2006 at 12:12 PM..
 12 years ago '04        #236
ItAlY2BkLyN 238 heat pts238
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You people who think white people care so much that Barry is black need to get over yourselves. Why do YOU keep focusing so much on race. I have never heard one white person make a comment about Babe Ruth's or Bonds' race. Come to the deep end of the pool and grow up to get past all that race bull sh1t. You can't expect other people to let it go when you're the one who keeps it going. Get the f**k outa here.
 12 years ago '04        #237
Gtownkid04 
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so the "greatest player of all time" using a corked bat isn't a big issue? this is the type of sh*t i'm talking about.
 05-31-2006, 12:28 PM         #238
StudiosConnect.  OP
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 Gtownkid04 said:
so the "greatest player of all time" using a corked bat isn't a big issue? this is the type of sh*t i'm talking about.

yeah exactly... great article post btw :wow:

Guess so people will never get over the fact.s. like u posted and stay attacking barry bonds (whos innocent) like he is the only person in mlb to be targeted
 05-31-2006, 12:32 PM         #239
goulet  OP
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wow, most truth about baseball i've ever read in such a concise article. baseball = who can cheat the best. always has, always will. sh*t aint gonna change. america's pastime is corrupt, and now all these white people are atacking someone for "cheating" when what he's done isn't even technically disallowed? i love the hypocrisy.
First of all, steroids wasn't disallowed?? Just because there was no law in the baseball rule book doesnt mean it was allowed. They didn't need a law because STEROIDS ARE ILLEGAL IN THE USA!!! if someone uses steroids, they should face jail time, not just asterisks and suspensions from their sport. Second of all, you can say cheating has always been in baseball blah blah blah, but did any other player start doubling their homerun totals in the twilight of their career while their head coincidentally grew and they gained 40 pounds? You know many stars and athletes have sued for libel over the years, but why hasn't barry? his image has been completely tarnished and he hasn't sued one person yet!!! BECAUSE HES GUILTY. And the last thing is, studioconnect the reason your ID is being taken as racist is because if i had the ID BIGGER, WHITER, BETTER i would sure as hell be labeled a racist.
 05-31-2006, 12:34 PM         #240
goulet  OP
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There is no proof of any of baseballs greats using corked bats except for sammy sosa, just suspicions. However, barry bonds did admit to using a performance enhancing drug which makes him a cheat. And if someone publishes a book about all your crimes with actual testimonies of people close to you, and you dont refute it, you are accepting your guilt.


Last edited by goulet; 05-31-2006 at 12:35 PM..
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