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Props Slaps
 06-17-2005, 11:43 PM         #61
itzmurda 
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 jj_143 said:
[WEBSITE LINK]
Did they include kids like this in those tests?
if thats real (and not jewish propaganda), and thats a white dude that did that sh*t.. i will officially denounce my whiteness

haha nah

but forreal that dude is a disgrace
 11 years ago '04        #62
jj_143 
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 itzmurda said:
if thats real (and not jewish propaganda), and thats a white dude that did that sh*t.. i will officially denounce my whiteness

haha nah

but forreal that dude is a disgrace
And that's the point right there there are people of all races that aren't smart when you have like what is it 13% black population of course there are going to be less "smart" blacks compared to the number of "smart" white.
 11 years ago '05        #63
BurninLz 30 heat pts30
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 11 years ago '04        #64
jj_143 
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 BurninLz said:
at me???
 06-18-2005, 12:18 AM         #65
Maxamillin 
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Maybe all those facts were true, but isnt that the white peoples fault? for 300 years didnt white people NOT let black people even read? For 300 years of DE-Evolution dont you expect there to be a difference? Ill tel you right now, i would rather be a happy person and not be a smart guy then be a smart guy and also be an oppressor.even now you got the suburban schools with better district funding then the ghetto schools so who is STILL to blame? Who else but white people. All white people have ever done in this world is opress people. and all everybody else does is blame the victim and fogets the opressor.
 06-18-2005, 12:57 AM         #66
itzmurda 
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 jj_143 said:
And that's the point right there there are people of all races that aren't smart when you have like what is it 13% black population of course there are going to be less "smart" blacks compared to the number of "smart" white.
it wasnt based on percentage of total population, it was based on the same amount of whites and blacks taking the same tests. if there are less blacks that actually HELPS them since its more likely of chance that one of the smarter ones would represent them.

 Maxamillin said:
Maybe all those facts were true, but isnt that the white peoples fault? for 300 years didnt white people NOT let black people even read? For 300 years of DE-Evolution dont you expect there to be a difference? Ill tel you right now, i would rather be a happy person and not be a smart guy then be a smart guy and also be an oppressor.even now you got the suburban schools with better district funding then the ghetto schools so who is STILL to blame? Who else but white people. All white people have ever done in this world is opress people. and all everybody else does is blame the victim and fogets the opressor.
NO it isnt white peoples fault. what are you fu*kin retarded? blacks NEVER knew how to read before whites taught them. africans invented no written languages at all. like i said, not only do you speak ENGLISH(sort of like ENG-LAND, get it) but it is also the main language in many african countries.

africans sold thier own people to whites as slaves. your best friends family could have sold your family. not to mention that 1/3 of the slaves in at least one southern state was owned by free blacks. it was white people that decided to abolish slavery. slavery STILL goes on in africa today. whites have opressed no one. how do you opress someone who doesnt even know how to communicate? you expect to go from being slaves sold by your own to being considered as "equal" to the people who civilized the whole african continent and the people in it? thats were segregation and the jim crow laws came in. finally whites decided that was wrong as well and abolished it. and i guess i dont need to mention that many whites moved to this country AFTER slavery and never owned a slave in thier life

jews are the true oppressor of all peoples.. from financing the slave ships to the brainwashing of white people that goes on today. the white man is your not your enemy. you owe ALOT to the white man. being in america and learning from whites are the ONLY way blacks have ever achieved success.

look at countries like zimbabwe.. thats what happens when blacks are put in power. white genocide. whites opressing you? hilarious.

FACT #100: The American taxpayers have spent over $2.5 TRILLION trying to upgrade Blacks since the 1960's. (6)

its a wonder why they never invested so much money into upgrading former white slaves. because we all know the first slaves in the united states were WHITE indentured servants.

anything else you want to know about opression/slavery?


Last edited by itzmurda; 06-18-2005 at 01:17 AM..
 06-18-2005, 01:12 AM         #67
itzmurda 
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The first lie that I will deal with here concerns slavery and its alleged link to racism. The lie is that only Blacks were slaves and thus have some special right to a "pity party" because their ancestors were slaves, and that anyone who owned slaves was a racist. This is not true.
The word "slave" is a transliteration of the Greek word slavos, which rightly applies only to White European Slavs from the countries of Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, Slavonia, Russia, Poland, Hungary, and others. The Slavonic tribes are the root of all European White people. For a thousand years, so many millions of these White European Slavs were captured and sold as servants, that the word "slaves" became universally used for the word "servant" and was only later applied to Black servants. Every White person in America has ancestors who were slaves, including the Scots, British, French, and Germans. In the early colonies of America, Whites were regularly sold as permanent slaves. If it were justifiable, Whites would be much more justified in having a "chip on their shoulder" or a "pity party" because more of their ancestors were slaves and for a longer period of time. Almost all Blacks in the United States were under slavery for less than 100 years. Furthermore, only 5% of all Black slaves shipped by Black masters out of Africa ever came to the United States because most Black slaves were shipped to South America or the West Indies.
The White European Slavs, or slaves, were sold to Romans, Arabs, Germans, and even to Black African masters in northern Africa, particularly Egypt, Libya, and Ethiopia. Were these Black masters in Africa racists because they owned White European slaves? The Bible tells us that the Blacks owned the oriental Jews as slaves for 400 years. Does that make them racists? The Bible also tells us that Abraham, who is the father of the Jews, the Christians, and the Muslims, owned hundreds of slaves. God also required Abraham to circumcise those slaves that he bought with money, as well as those slaves who were homeborn. Moreover, Abraham's slaves fought for him in a war with King Chedorlaomer to rescue his nephew Lot. In addition, Isaac, Jacob, Daniel, Job, Joseph, and David all owned slaves and even the Apostle Paul returned a White runaway slave to his Christian master in the book of Philemon.
My question is this: Is the anti-Southern news media, education system, and Hollywood calling these great men of God racists or evil or wicked because they owned hundreds of slaves? If not, then neither can they call Southerners like George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and Jefferson Davis racists because they owned slaves. What hypocrisy and bigotry to criticize only White Southerners or the Confederate States for owning slaves. Nearly every nation in the world owned slaves, especially the Black masters in Nigeria, where most American Blacks have their roots.
The second lie that I will address here is that slaves were mistreated in the Old South. Again, this is not true. In Colossians 4:1, the Apostle Paul wrote, "Masters, give unto your servants that which is just and equal; knowing that ye also have a Master in heaven." To say that slaves were mistreated in the Old South is to say that the most Christian group of people in the entire world, the so-called "Bible Belt," mistreated their servants and violated the commandments of Jesus their Lord. Anyone who says this is an accuser of the brethren of Jesus Christ, which is not a very good position to take. We in the South are offended by such false accusations. Just the opposite is true. In the Old South there were numerous laws that protected servants from abuse, just as there are laws today that protect wives or children from abuse. But just because a few men abuse their wives and children does not make marriage or having children a cruel and hateful endeavor. The same is true for slavery. Of course, there were masters who violated the law and mistreated their servants, such as Union General William T. Sherman, who owned a number of slaves before the War and who was constantly in court facing charges for abusing them. That is what the laws were for, to stop Yankees like Sherman from mistreating their slaves. The incidence of abuse, r*pe, broken homes, and murder are one-hundred times greater today in the housing projects than they every were on the slave plantations in the Old South.
The truth is, that nowhere on the face of the earth, in all of history, were servants better treated or better loved than they were in the Old South by White, Black, Hispanic, and Indian slave owners. Yes, even Bla ' eks and Indians owned slaves in the Old South. While 7% of Southern Whites owned slaves, 2% of free Blacks in the South owned slaves. For example, in 1860, the U.S. Census Bureau reported that around 10,000 free Blacks owned some 60,000 Black slaves. It was a Black slave master, named Anthony Johnson, who sued and won his case in a Virginia court in 1653 that changed temporary servitude into lifetime servitude. Thus, this Black slave owner established permanent slavery in Virginia. Moreover, when the Cherokee Indians were removed by the U.S. Government along the "Trail of Tears" out West, nearly 30% of the people removed were Black slaves of the Cherokees. Just as White European slaves were primitive, barbaric pagans who practices human sacrifice, incest, witchcraft, and idolatry, yet were converted to Christianity, learned trades and skills and became a civilized people under Black, Oriental, and White masters, so also did Black African barbaric pagans become civilized Christians with skills and trades under slavery in the Old South.
Slavery was a family institution in the Old South, just as is stated in Galatians 4:1: "Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all." A typical family plantation had one family of Whites living next door to one family of Blacks. They had the same last name, worked in the same fields side by side, played together, prayed together, raised each other's children, took care of each other in sickness, and all in all, loved one another, just like family. It was at these small family farms that Southern Blacks were taught about and converted to Christianity by the millions. It is to be sure that those converted Black Southerners are most grateful today, just as our White European ancestors are grateful for their conversion to Christianity while slaves to Black masters in northern Africa, such as the Coptic Christians in Egypt, one of the oldest Christian groups in the world. Remember, it was not from Yankees that the Southern Blacks learned about Jesus Christ; for the most part, it was from Southern slave owners.
It was here, on the family plantation, that Blacks learned trades and skills such as farming, saw milling, carpentry, and even driving steamboats and railroad trains. Even the Abolitionist Yankee government's Department of Education admitted in 1892, after the total failure of the "Reconstruction Experiment," that the best technical education that the world had ever seen, was the education that was given to the slaves by their masters before their emancipation.
It should also be remembered that the Blacks from Nigeria, the most populous region in Africa, were not civilized and not Christian, practicing voodoo, cannibalism, and witchcraft, just as the White Europeans did. These Blacks were captured in tribal wars by other Blacks in Nigeria. White people did not run through the jungles of Africa kidnapping Blacks and making them slaves. Black Africans captured and sold other Blacks as slaves; they were already slaves before they ever set foot on a Spanish, Portuguese, English, or New England Yankee slave ship. Such ships stayed anchored off shore for fear of jungle diseases and the slaves were rowed out in long boats by Africans and put on board. Many of these slaves were already riddled with disease and half-starved.
All slave ships from the United States sailed from the Northern states of Massachusetts, Rhode Island, New York, New Jersey, and Delaware under the United States flag. Not one Southern ship sailed to Africa to bring back slaves. This slave trading was the big business of the rich New England Yankees. They traded rum made in Northern factories to Black African slave owners for their slaves and then traded most of the slaves to South America or the West Indies for molasses, and then manufactured the molasses into rum and made another trip. Only 5% of the African slaves ever reached the United States, and with rare exception, the life of a slave in the United States was ten times better than his life had been as a slave in Africa.
just the facts man


Last edited by itzmurda; 06-18-2005 at 01:18 AM..
 06-18-2005, 01:58 AM         #68
HumanCrakk 
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sh*t all i know is itsmurda is backing up his argument basically against all of boxden and doing an alright job at it
 11 years ago '04        #69
htown 
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noone else probably has the time to go to an opposite propaganda website that "itzmurda" he gets this stuff from. All you need is a white supremacist or nationalist website that posts every point like that and therefore you can just call on any "fact" for any argument that you face. I don't really have time to read 100 books to try to find excerpts that back my arguments. I'm basically going from my experiences and interactions with people from other races. I've been in classes where I was the only black person there and was smarter than like 95% of my other classmates. Nothing to gloat about, I'm black, but my parents just raised me in a different environment. I just don't think that the amount of melanin a person has and their IQ are indirectly proportional. I actually thought the guy was just an objective poster, that just wanted an argument...until I saw the traditional anti-jewish comments that I hear from other white nationalists. Just kinda puts things in perspective about where he's coming from.


Last edited by htown; 06-18-2005 at 08:41 AM..
 11 years ago '04        #70
Thirdc0astgh0st 
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STATISTICS are Bullsh*t. They are easily manipulated.
 06-18-2005, 04:20 AM         #71
DJT 
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 htown said:
noone else probably has the time to go to an opposite propaganda website that he gets this stuff from. All you need is a white nationalist website that post every point like that and therefore you can just call on any "fact" for any argument that you face. I don't really have time to read 100 books to try to find excerpts that back my arguments. I'm basically going from my experiences and interactions with people from other races. I've been in classes where I was the only black person there and was smarter than like 95% of my other classmates. Nothing to gloat about, I'm black but my parents just raised me in a different environment. I just don't think that the amount of melanin a person has and their IQ are indirectly proportional. I actually thought the guy was just an objective poster, that just wanted an argument...until I saw the traditional anti-jewish comments that I hear from other white nationalist. Just kinda puts things in perspective about where he's coming from.

This is EXACTLY what i'm talking about... 'Itzmurda' what is YOUR excuse for a "Black" person telling you he excelled in his class and achieved very high grades?

Your "facts" are NOT concrete, and if based upon a very very small sample of the U.S. (Not even the entire Western world?). You're reposting various articles you got from the net as the guy said above, but if i were to go onto any pro-black website, as mentioned, I could've retrieved virtually the same propaganda... DO YOU NOT SEE THIS?

All I see you doing is saying "I'M RIGHT AND YOU'RE WRONG"...lol... THERE IS NO RIGHT AND WRONG... u nah see it? lol.. anyone can say that, and regardless of your "copy + paste" skills... we could do the same thing...
as i asked before, what is YOUR OPINION??!?

Opinions are like a**holes... go listen to "nature of the threat" by Ras Kass or any Immortal Tech, or KRS-One "Why IS That?" or "You Must Learn" and see how different people have DIFFERENT opinions based on the "facts" they're found... (again... U NAH SEE IT?)

Also next time you want to "discuss" refrain from insulting anyone... it makes your points seem worthless, because nobody has to agree or read all your stuff you posted. Form you're own opinion... and if you were truly open-minded, then you wold consider all the points raised... those that acuse others of being brainwashed should take a look at themselves... it could be possible that YOU'VE been brainwashed... just the "facts"

 11 years ago '04        #72
jj_143 
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 itzmurda said:
it wasnt based on percentage of total population, it was based on the same amount of whites and blacks taking the same tests. if there are less blacks that actually HELPS them since its more likely of chance that one of the smarter ones would represent them.
Incorrect, say if 5% of all people are naturally "smart", so there would be a 5% chance that the white kids they picked were naturally "smart" and a 5% chance the black kids picked was were naturally "smart". Now considering the fact that most black kids live in an environment that is below standard to those of the white kids, lets say 50% of those "smart" black kids live in the "ghetto", so now they are going to have much less of a chance to do well on the test, so that leaves us with white kids: (5% "smart") vs. black kids: (5% "smart" - 2.5% bad environment).

Now not be biased there are white people living in the "ghetto" too but that number would be less than 50% say 25%(I don't think its even that much). So do the math and what not and you get white kids: (5% smart - 1.25% for environment) vs. black kids: (5% "smart" - 2.5% bad environment).


So 3.75% vs. 2.5%
 06-18-2005, 10:39 AM         #73
itzmurda 
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 DJT said:
This is EXACTLY what i'm talking about... 'Itzmurda' what is YOUR excuse for a "Black" person telling you he excelled in his class and achieved very high grades?

Your "facts" are NOT concrete, and if based upon a very very small sample of the U.S. (Not even the entire Western world?). You're reposting various articles you got from the net as the guy said above, but if i were to go onto any pro-black website, as mentioned, I could've retrieved virtually the same propaganda... DO YOU NOT SEE THIS?

All I see you doing is saying "I'M RIGHT AND YOU'RE WRONG"...lol... THERE IS NO RIGHT AND WRONG... u nah see it? lol.. anyone can say that, and regardless of your "copy + paste" skills... we could do the same thing...
as i asked before, what is YOUR OPINION??!?

Opinions are like a**holes... go listen to "nature of the threat" by Ras Kass or any Immortal Tech, or KRS-One "Why IS That?" or "You Must Learn" and see how different people have DIFFERENT opinions based on the "facts" they're found... (again... U NAH SEE IT?)

Also next time you want to "discuss" refrain from insulting anyone... it makes your points seem worthless, because nobody has to agree or read all your stuff you posted. Form you're own opinion... and if you were truly open-minded, then you wold consider all the points raised... those that acuse others of being brainwashed should take a look at themselves... it could be possible that YOU'VE been brainwashed... just the "facts"

HAHAHAH I CANT BELIEVE THIS DUMB sh*t. are you SERIOUSLY trying to tell me that white people didn't civilize the primitive people of africa? is this what you are denying? i dont understand what you are denying, it seems like you are just trying to argue to argue. tell ME why a mexican person in this country can walk up to another mexican, speak spanish and instantly form a bond. but black people can speak nothing but the white man's language since his people werent smart enough to create a langauge.

FACT #1: The White race has crossed seas, harnessed rivers, carved mountains, tamed deserts, and colonized the most barren icefields. It has been responsible for the invention of the printing press, cement, the harnessing of electricity, flight, rocketry, astronomy, the telescope, space travel, firearms, the transistor, radio, television, the telephone, the lightbulb, photography, motion pictures, the phonograph, the electric battery, the automobile, the steam engine, railroad transportation, the microscope, computers, and millions of other technological miracles. It has discovered countless medical advances, incredible applications, scientific progress, etc. Its members have included such greats as Socrates, Aristotle, Plato, Homer, Tacitus, Julius Ceaser, Napoleon, William the Conqueror, Marco Polo, Washington, Jefferson, Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Magellan, Columbus, Cabot, Edison, GrahamBell, Pasteur, Leeuwenhoek, Mendel, Darwin, Newton, Galileo, Watt, Ford, Luther, Devinci, Poe, Tennyson, and thousands upon thousands of other notable achievers. (37) (39)

FACT #2: Throughout 6,000 years of recorded history, the Black African Negro has invented nothing. Not a written language, weaved cloth, a calendar, a plow, a road, a bridge, a railway, a ship, a system of measurement, or even the wheel. (Note: This is in reference to the pure-blooded Negro.) He is not known to have ever cultivated a single crop or domesticated a single animal for his own use (although many powerful and docile beasts abounded around him.) His only known means of transporting goods was on the top of his hard head. For shelter he never progressed beyond the common mud hut, the construction of which a beaver or muskrat is capable. (21) (39)

HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT WE ARE EQUALLY INTELLIGENT? its simply not true. its a fantasy of yours to be on the intellectual level of the white man. but the white man is out of your league. i speak the facts homey, not only did the white man own you he FATHERED you by making you the person you are today. blacks have learned from the white man and have became better for it. we could have shipped you back to africa so you could live in your mud huts. but nah we rather keep you around here so you can steal our culture and berate us.

"what is YOUR excuse for a "Black" person telling you he excelled in his class and achieved very high grades?". i dont doubt it at all. these FACTS are based on a PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE. he obviously part of the smart percentage of blacks. but for every one of him there are 10 blacks who arent smart that bring the average down.

"nature of the threat" is the biggest piece of garbage ever created. every thing can be disproven (and has), it is neither scientifically or historically accurate. in other words "ill make some lies up to try and instill pride into people so they can think more of themselves than being white mans property". not only is it ungrateful, its blasphemous. you should give credit where it is due.

just one example at what a dumb fu*k ras kass is, i just pick out a random line from that grabage track:

"The word philosophy means "love of knowledge"... stole from first man"

nope philosophy means "love of wisdom". wisdom and knowledge are different. ras kass is an idiot.

FACT #41 46% of inner city Black men between the ages of 16 and 62 are unemployed. (27)

FACT #42: More than 66% of the children of Negroes are born out of wedlock. Per capita, their illegitimacy rate is ten times that of Whites. (32) (27)

FACT #43: Blacks are four and a half times more likely than Whites to be on welfare. (32)

FACT #44: More than 35% of all Black men in U.S. Cities are drug or alcohol abusers. (27)

FACT #46: Scientific research on what constitutes human beauty, in which 300 judges of various backgrounds were shown portrait photographs and asked to rate the beauty of the individual's face, has revealed that nordic Whites are universally recognized as the most attractive humans, even by Blacks. The judges were instructed to evaluate the faces solely on his or her "personal standards of beauty and not to consider popular norms." The results of the study "Age, s3x, Race, and the Perception of Facial Beauty." Developmental Psychology, 5, Nov., 1971, pp 433-439, are reprinted below.


GROUP BEAUTY RATINGS
IN CROSS AND CROSS STUDY


JUDGES' GROUP GIVEN
CHARACTERISTICS HIGHEST RATING
--------------- --------------
Age 7 white males white adolescent males
Age 7 black males white adolescent males
Age 7 white females white adolescent females
Age 7 black females 3-way tie:
black adolescent females,
white adolescent females,
white female children
Age 12 white males white adolescent females
Age 12 black males white adolescent females
Age 12 white females white adolescent females
Age 12 black females white adolescent females
Age 17 white males white adolescent females
Age 17 black males white adolescent females
Age 17 white females white adolescent females
Age 17 black females white adolescent females
Adult white males white adolescent females
Adult black males white adolescent females
Adult white females white adolescent males
Adult black females white adolescent females

FACT #55: The Republic of Haiti, the only completely Black republic in the Western Hemisphere also happens to be the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere. It also has the lowest life expectancy, highest illiteracy, lowest per capita consumption of newsprint, lowest per capita GNP, and the lowest level of political stability. (27)

FACT #56: Haiti once had a promising future. Before 1789 as a French colony under White rule, San Domingo (Haiti) was as rich or richer in productivity as all the 13 American Colonies combined. It was considered the "crown jewel" of the French colonial system, and was in fact the most prosperous colony anywhere in the world. Populated by 40,000 Whites, 27,000 freed Mulattoes, and 450,000 Black slaves and with a bountiful climate and productive soil, it supplied all of France and half of Europe with sugar, coffee, and cotton. But in 1791, the French government issued a decree ordering Haiti to give the vote to the Mulattoes, and soon after another ordering freedom for all the slaves. This resulted in a bloody civil war in which the entire White population (about 40,000 Frenchmen) was murdered, down to the last man, woman, and child. r*pe, decapitation, and mutilation were committed almost universally upon their bodies. (22) (23)

FACT #75-77: On Jan. 31, 1977, Martin Luther King's FBI records were sealed by court order until the year 2027 because, as his wife said, "its release would destroy his reputation" These records are rumored to contain instances of bizarre s3xual perversion and homos3xuality, and proof that King was under the direct orders of Soviet spies and financed by the Communist Party.

FACT #78: The Wall Street Journal (Nov.9, 1990) disclosed that Stanford University editors of The Papers of Martin Luther King Jr. have long known that King was guilty of plagiarism in his 1955 Boston University doctoral thesis, having lifted significant portions from the works of other writers and graduate students.

FACT #88: 90% of U.S. children with AIDS are Black or Hispanic. (36)

FACT #87: A woman is 15 times more likely to contract AIDS by engaging in s3x with a Negro than with a White heteros3xual. (U.S. Centers for Disease Control)
 06-18-2005, 10:46 AM         #74
itzmurda 
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 HumanCrakk said:
sh*t all i know is itsmurda is backing up his argument basically against all of boxden and doing an alright job at it
its not hard man cause its hard to dispute a FACT. they try but thier lies/opinions always provoke rebuttals that will destroy thier whole argument.

all im sayin is white people be proud of who the fu*k you are. YOU are the reason other races(blacks etc) are who they are.
 11 years ago '04        #75
murdahudawg 2 heat pts
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Poor More Affected by Environment

By Rick Weiss
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, September 2, 2003; Page A01

Back-to-school pop quiz: Why do poor children, and especially black poor children, score lower on average than their middle-class and white counterparts on IQ tests and other measures of cognitive performance?

It is an old and politically sensitive question, and one that has long fueled claims of racism. As highlighted in the controversial 1994 book "The Bell Curve," studies have repeatedly found that people's genes -- and not their environment -- explain most of the differences in IQ among individuals. That has led a few scholars to advance the hotly disputed notion that minorities' lower scores are evidence of genetic inferiority.

Now a groundbreaking study of the interaction among genes, environment and IQ finds that the influence of genes on intelligence is dependent on class. Genes do explain the vast majority of IQ differences among children in wealthier families, the new work shows. But environmental factors -- not genetic deficits -- explain IQ differences among poor minorities.

The results suggest that early childhood a.ssistance programs such as Head Start can help the poor and are worthy of public support. They also suggest that middle-class and wealthy parents need not feel guilty if they don't purchase the latest Lamaze mobile or other expensive gadgets that are pitched as being so important to their children's development.

"How many books are in the home and how good the teacher is may be questions to consider for a middle-class child, but those questions are much more important when we're talking about children raised in abject poverty," said lead researcher Eric Turkheimer, a psychologist at the University of Virginia.

The work, to be published in the November issue of the journal Psychological Science, is part of a new wave of research that embraces a more dynamic view of the relationship between genes and environment. Although older research treated nature and nurture as largely independent and additive factors, and saw people as the sum of their genetic endowments and environmental experiences, the emerging view allows that genes can influence the impact of experiences and experiences can influence the "expression," or activity levels, of genes.

In Turkheimer's study, the impact of genes on IQ varied depending on a child's socioeconomic status (SES), a sociological measure that includes household income and other elements of class and social status.

Until recently, Turkheimer and others said, research had indicated that the "heritability" of IQ -- that is, the degree to which genes can explain the differences in IQ scores -- completely dominated environmental influences. That led some to call into question the value of programs such as Head Start, which are based on the a.ssumption that by improving the childhood environment through extra attention, nutrition and care, a child's intellectual future could be improved.

But it turned out that virtually all those studies on the heritability of IQ had been done on middle-class and wealthy families. Only when Turkheimer tested that a.ssumption in a population of poor and mostly black children did it become clear that, in fact, the influence of genes on IQ was significantly lower in conditions of poverty, where environmental deficits overwhelm genetic potential.

"This paper shows how relevant social class is" to children's ability to reach their genetic potential, said Sandra Scarr, a professor emerita of psychology now living in Hawaii, who did seminal work in behavioral genetics at the University of Virginia.

Specifically, the heritability of IQ at the low end of the wealth spectrum was just 0.10 on a scale of zero to one, while it was 0.72 for families of high socioeconomic status. Conversely, the importance of environmental influences on IQ was four times stronger in the poorest families than in the higher status families.

"This says that above a certain level, where you have a wide array of opportunities, it doesn't get much better" by adding environmental enhancements, Scarr said. "But below a certain level, additional opportunities can have big impacts."

The principle is straightforward and has long been recognized in plants and other simpler organisms. In one famous example, often repeated by evolutionary biologist Richard Lewontin, two genetically identical seeds of corn, planted in very different soil conditions, will grow to very different heights.

Some social psychologists and behavior geneticists have hypothesized that the same must hold true for the relationships linking human genes, socioeconomic status and IQ. Like corn in depleted soil, the thinking goes, minorities and the poor (two categories with so much overlap that researchers find it difficult to tease apart their effects) perform worse not because of their genes but because they are raised in an environment lacking in resources and poisoned by racist attitudes.

"It's a hypothesis that makes a great deal of sense on its face, but has been difficult to study," Scarr said. Difficult, she said, because the best way to study the relative contributions of genes and environment to a human trait is to conduct studies on twins or, in some cases, adopted children. And almost all the twins and adoptees who have been available for study over the years have come from middle-class or higher-class families.

Turkheimer got around that shortage by tapping into data from the now defunct National Collaborative Perinatal Project, which started in the late 1960s. That study, funded by the National Institutes of Health, enrolled nearly 50,000 pregnant women, most of them black and quite poor, in several major U.S. cities. Researchers collected loads of data on the families and gave the children IQ tests seven years later.

Although the study was not designed to study twins, it was so big that many twins were born -- 623 pairs, to be exact, 320 of whom were successfully located by the original researchers and tested for IQ at age 7 in the 1970s. By culling through those test scores and the data on the families' socioeconomic status, Turkheimer was able to conduct one of the first analyses of the role of genes in IQ among the poor.

Twin studies are useful because there are two kinds of twins -- identical twins, which are 100 percent genetically identical, and fraternal twins, which (like other siblings) are 50 percent genetically identical.

Whether twins are identical or fraternal, they share identical prenatal conditions in the womb as they gestate together and they are raised in virtually identical environmental circumstances. That cuts out a major share of environmental differences between the two in any pair.

So when scientists find traits that are more commonly shared between identical twins than between fraternal twins, that suggests the trait is one with a strong genetic basis.

Taking advantage not only of that unique population of children but also of new statistical methods that allowed them to measure complex interactions, Turkheimer and his colleagues -- including University of Minnesota behavioral geneticist Irving Gottesman -- found that the lower a child's socioeconomic status, the less impact genetic inheritance had on IQ.

"It gets away from the pessimistic conclusion that high heritability means you're wasting your money on Head Start," Gottesman said. He suggested that other interventions, including improved prenatal care, would raise IQ even more.

And although IQ remains a controversial measure, criticized by some as being racially biased in itself and a poor reflection of intelligence in the highest sense of the word, Gottesman and others noted that it remains the best predictor today of social and economic success in U.S. society.

Robert Plomin, a behavioral geneticist with the Institute of Psychiatry at King's College of London, who has been seeking genes linked specifically to intelligence, said the results do not undermine the importance of genes.

"In study after study, the evidence is overwhelming that there is a substantial genetic input to IQ," Plomin said. "This doesn't contradict that, but it leads to an interesting possibility that although it's true for the [middle- and upper-class] populations that have been studied . . . it's not going to mean much if you're in an impoverished environment."

Plomin said his own unpublished work involving 4,000 pairs of twins has not produced the same results as Turkheimer's. "We've looked at this for families unemployed, on state support and living in subsidized housing, and we still don't find it, even at that low level" of socioeconomic status, he said.

But, he said, that may simply mean that his population was not as poor as Turkheimer's -- or was benefiting from Britain's superior social safety net.

In fact, the families in Turkheimer's study were very poor, with a median income of $17,000 a year in 1997 dollars. One in five of the mothers was younger than 21, one-third of them were on public a.ssistance, and more than one-third did not have a husband.

Marcus Feldman, a population geneticist at Stanford University who has studied gene-environment interactions, said the next big challenge is to find out what it is about socioeconomic status -- a measure that includes not only income but also parental education and occupational status -- that contributes to IQ, so social programs can more effectively boost those factors.

"SES is a surrogate for something that deserves further study," Feldman said. "A paper like this reemphasizes the importance of psychology and educational psychology and draws us somewhat away from genetics and back into the importance of the social sciences for understanding IQ. This says to me, let's spend the money and find out what it is about SES that makes the difference."
 06-18-2005, 11:59 AM         #76
itzmurda 
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as i already stated in regards to that article:

FACT #13: Even when Blacks and Whites have the same backgrounds, in terms of family income and childhood advantages, Blacks still have average I.Q. scores 12 to 15 points lower than comparable Whites. This includes cases where Black children have been adopted by White parents. Their I.Q.s may be improved by environment, but they are still closer to their biological parents than their adoptive parents. (3) (15) (26)

FACT #12: Studies conducted with identical twins raised apart in radically different environments provide conclusive evidence that over-all influence of heredity exceeds that of environment in a ratio of about 3 to 1. (41)

if fact 13 dont do it, then fact 12 should make you forget that article exists. environment only influences iq on a SMALL SCALE. 3 to 1. aka both HEREDITY AND ENVIRONMENT affect iq levels but HEREDITY being a much higher factor. cant you read?

and the two babies studies were INDENTICAL twins (same race), this didnt even deal with black/white issues. fact 12 proves that blacks that grow up in the SAME environment as whites STILL manage to have lower iqs.

"This includes cases where Black children have been adopted by White parents. Their I.Q.s may be improved by environment, but they are still closer to their biological parents than their adoptive parents."


Last edited by itzmurda; 06-18-2005 at 12:03 PM..
 11 years ago '04        #77
killyoself 
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fact # 187 k!ll yourself itzmurda if u believe the facts. its known u can manipulate "facts" to make them say what u want. look at politics both sides use facts to say different things bout how the other side sucks.
 06-18-2005, 12:15 PM         #78
Euphy 
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Damn yo... black peeps are stupid.
 11 years ago '04        #79
htown 
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lol how can you say this is not white supremacist rhetoric? what website did you get your "facts" from?
 11 years ago '04        #80
jj_143 
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 itzmurda said:
HAHAHAH I CANT BELIEVE THIS DUMB sh*t. are you SERIOUSLY trying to tell me that white people didn't civilize the primitive people of africa? is this what you are denying? i dont understand what you are denying, it seems like you are just trying to argue to argue. tell ME why a mexican person in this country can walk up to another mexican, speak spanish and instantly form a bond. but black people can speak nothing but the white man's language since his people werent smart enough to create a langauge.
So you are saying people in Africa don't have any langauge besides English? Shut the fu*k up
And the reason Mexicans speak SPANISH is because they were colonized by SPAIN you moron and Africa was colonized by the English. retard. What about asians? They were more technologically advanced throughout history, but you know what it is about the white man(not all white people I'm talking about the white people that think they are the supreme race) that is different they want to go and take over other people like how they fu*ked the Native American. Not only did they take land from people they had to convert them to Christianity, who is any one to say what religion is right and what is wrong.

On the real you are on some Hitler sh*t BIATCH!!!!!!!!!! Talking about Jewish propaganda bi*ch your on that KKK propaganda for real though so in conclusion... :finger:
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