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How come America has the best pro boxers but sh-t amateurs?



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 2 months ago '18        #1
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Kodack sixnine  topics gone triple plat - Number 1 spot x57
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How come America has the best pro boxers but sh-t amateurs?
 

 
It never made sense to me. Of course in the 80s we brought home the gold, but it seems that when we go against boxers from other countries we fall flat. Only thing I can think of is international judges don’t let boxers get away with running and hugging and other silly tactics that judges in the states are happy to embrace



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 2 months ago '07        #2
stogz 
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Don't let the name of the sport fool you.

It's two different sports. More accurate names:

Professional Boxing aka Prizef*ghting

vs.

Olympic punch-offs aka International Hand-throwing
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Top 10 most slapped recently  2 months ago '09        #3
LOONATIK  topics gone triple plat - Number 1 spot x2
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This^^^^
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 2 months ago '18        #4
Kodack sixnine  topics gone triple plat - Number 1 spot x57 OP
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 stogz said
Don't let the name of the sport fool you.

It's two different sports. More accurate names:

Professional Boxing aka Prizef*ghting

vs.

Olympic punch-offs aka International Hand-throwing
But nowadays Olympic boxing is more similar to pro f*ghting and uses a similar scoring system but that hasn’t translated to more medals for US
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Top 10 most propped recently  2 months ago '17        #5
CJ Schwarz  topics gone triple plat - Number 1 spot x4
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Let me add that we necessarily don't have "sh*t" amateurs, our Boxers go pro earlier than others. Amateur boxing is like college football or the minor leagues. Once they get a name for themselves they leave and go pro. No need to be an amateur until you're 26.
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 2 months ago '07        #6
stogz 
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 Kodack sixnine said
But nowadays Olympic boxing is more similar to pro f*ghting and uses a similar scoring system but that hasn’t translated to more medals for US
no, it's not similar at all.


It's perpetual attempted face punching.

Yea, judges score rounds... for face punching. The competitors just attempt to punch face. I don't know what a standing 8-count is... judges seem to disagree what constitutes face punching but that's all that matters.
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 2 months ago '18        #7
Kodack sixnine  topics gone triple plat - Number 1 spot x57 OP
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 stogz said
no, it's not similar at all.


It's perpetual attempted face punching.

Yea, judges score rounds... for face punching. The competitors just attempt to punch face. I don't know what a standing 8-count is... judges seem to disagree what constitutes face punching but that's all that matters.
Maybe. They’re still supposed to score body shots though. Also even pro judges prefer face punching to body work
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 2 months ago '07        #8
stogz 
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 Kodack sixnine said
Maybe. They’re still supposed to score body shots though. Also even pro judges prefer face punching to body work
They don't score body punching. Whether they are supposed to or not, they never have. Hence the sustained, focused face punching.

Judges in the pros can prefer whatever, but the gloves are smaller and the f*ghts are longer... so in the pros, body attack will reveal itself in one way or another, where in amateurs it won't. It doesn't matter tho, because all the boxers know judges don't score body blows, so no one is dedicated to throwing them
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 2 months ago '21        #9
RackboyCam 
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Americas amateur program has fell off a cliff, what they got like 4 competitors this year? USA ain’t won a boxing medal since 2004 Eastern Europe/ caucus has taken over

 2 months ago '18        #10
Kodack sixnine  topics gone triple plat - Number 1 spot x57 OP
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 stogz said
They don't score body punching. Whether they are supposed to or not, they never have. Hence the sustained, focused face punching.

Judges in the pros can prefer whatever, but the gloves are smaller and the f*ghts are longer... so in the pros, body attack will reveal itself in one way or another, where in amateurs it won't. It doesn't matter tho, because all the boxers know judges don't score body blows, so no one is dedicated to throwing them


Tbh though most pros aren’t huge body punchers either, even if they should be. Ever since they took the headgear off and reduced the glove sizes to 10 oz we’ve seen more KOs but again, we still don’t have success in the Olympics like that. It’s one thing if we were good and we just had a style that amateur judges didn’t like, but we don’t even do good at all like we do at the pro level


Last edited by Kodack sixnine; 08-01-2021 at 07:09 AM..

 2 months ago '21        #11
RackboyCam 
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 stogz said
They don't score body punching. Whether they are supposed to or not, they never have. Hence the sustained, focused face punching.
They changed amateur boxing a few years
Back to the manual scoring, so they definitely can and do score body shots

Back when it was computer scoring you had to land a clean blow with the white knuckle part of the gloves and 3 out of 5 judges had to push the button within 1 second of each other. The problem with that was body punches were almost never counted since it is very hard to see a clean blow land (punch almost always hits part of arm as well so not a clean blow), vs seeing someone’s head snap back would be very easy to score

But now it’s completely different and pros are even allowed to compete, you just get a score of judges in ur favour and never see the punch count anymore
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 2 months ago '06        #12
philly337  topics gone triple plat - Number 1 spot x1
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Couple reasons...

1. Amatuer boxing is huge overseas. When a boxer is at the top in the us and turns 18 hes turning pro. In other countries theyll be in the Olympics f*ghting at 28 and sh*t lol. Theres a few who we thought would make noise when they turned pro but they stayed in amateurs so long by the time they turned pro their time had passed.

2. Amatuers is basically punch count and scored differently.

3. We've been robbed a few times
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 2 months ago '07        #13
stogz 
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 Kodack sixnine said
Tbh though most pros aren’t huge body punchers either, even if they should be. Ever since they took the headgear off and reduced the glove sizes to 10 oz we’ve seen more KOs but again, we still don’t have success in the Olympics like that. It’s one thing if we were good and we just had a style that amateur judges didn’t like, but we don’t even do good at all at the pros.
Pretty sure this the first olympics for the rule change.

Don't do good at pros? i don't know what that means.

 2 months ago '07        #14
stogz 
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 RackboyCam said
They changed amateur boxing a few years
Back to the manual scoring, so they definitely can and do score body shots

Back when it was computer scoring you had to land a clean blow with the white knuckle part of the gloves and 3 out of 5 judges had to push the button within 1 second of each other. The problem with that was body punches were almost never counted since it is very hard to see a clean blow land (punch almost always hits part of arm as well so not a clean blow), vs seeing someone’s head snap back would be very easy to score

But now it’s completely different and pros are even allowed to compete, you just get a score of judges in ur favour and never see the punch count anymore

Have you watched the boxing?

Have you seen body punching? Have you seen standing 8-counts for body blows? I've seen a standing 8-count for a partially landed head shot. I can't even tell how they supposed to score an 8-count because each judge score the same thing wildly different.


The initial question had nothing to do with scoring or rules.... it was about why american boxers are not doing well in the amateurs, and i a*sume he meant international amateurs. Like i said from the start, it's 2 different sports.
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 2 months ago '05        #15
prod1gy 
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Shawn porter explain the issue majority of the top pro boxers ain’t f*ghting in olympics reason being to just to qualify the guys gotta f*ght like 15 20 matches then if you make to gold medal round another 6 or more so fought 25 f*ghts lol these guys are not risking they career and money to go get cheated and f*ght over 20 25 times
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 2 months ago '17        #16
BanMan4Wut 
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There all origin stories... count how many of the U.s.a. greats lost, were ROBBED, or embarrassed by disqualification at the Showlympics. They dont matter at all...


There are still athletes who rep the U.S.?!?!? I guess thats why I'm not athletic
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Top 10 most propped recently  2 months ago '17        #17
CJ Schwarz  topics gone triple plat - Number 1 spot x4
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 BanMan4Wut said
There all origin stories... count how many of the U.s.a. greats lost, were ROBBED, or embarrassed by disqualification at the Showlympics. They dont matter at all...


There are still athletes who rep the U.S.?!?!? I guess thats why I'm not athletic


 2 months ago '15        #18
Hellmatic 
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I remember Mike tyson talking about how he knocked the guy down in the amateurs. and the other guy still won the round

Amateur boxing is completely different. Its more about how many times you can hit the other guy. Regardless of the power or damage of the punch
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 2 months ago '15        #19
Hellmatic 
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 philly337 said
Couple reasons...

1. Amatuer boxing is huge overseas. When a boxer is at the top in the us and turns 18 hes turning pro. In other countries theyll be in the Olympics f*ghting at 28 and sh*t lol. Theres a few who we thought would make noise when they turned pro but they stayed in amateurs so long by the time they turned pro their time had passed.

2. Amatuers is basically punch count and scored differently.

3. We've been robbed a few times
I saw a cuban heavyweight this year that was 32
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 2 months ago '19        #20
Mr Insecurity  topics gone triple plat - Number 1 spot x3
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 philly337 said
Couple reasons...

1. Amatuer boxing is huge overseas. When a boxer is at the top in the us and turns 18 hes turning pro. In other countries theyll be in the Olympics f*ghting at 28 and sh*t lol. Theres a few who we thought would make noise when they turned pro but they stayed in amateurs so long by the time they turned pro their time had passed.

2. Amatuers is basically punch count and scored differently.

3. We've been robbed a few times
One of the few matches I’ve watched,
“Tiger” Johnson (U.S.) lost to Roniel Iglesias (Cuba). Johnson is 22 years old. Iglesias is 32.

When I heard that, I thought, “dang…why is this dude still an amateur?…”

Cuba is why.
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Top 10 most propped recently  2 months ago '17        #21
CJ Schwarz  topics gone triple plat - Number 1 spot x4
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 Hellmatic said
I saw a cuban heavyweight this year that was 32
Yeah Cuban Boxers, any Cuban athlete, have to defect from Cuba to become Pros. Some of the stories it takes for them to defect is crazy. Iirc Luiz Ortiz sailed in an old refrigerator to Mexico in order to travel to the United States to defect.
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 2 months ago '08        #22
RustyLorcin 
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 CJ Schwarz said
Yeah Cuban Boxers, any Cuban athlete, have to defect from Cuba to become Pros. Some of the stories it takes for them to defect is crazy. Iirc Luiz Ortiz sailed in an old refrigerator to Mexico in order to travel to the United States to defect.
Yeah these pussies claim to have a hard life. But dont know what a real struggle is. Luis Ortiz gets my respect. Dude is a winner.


Can't believe the guy is questioning why Iglesias is a 32 year amateur. Never mind that he is still within the legal age to be an amateur and qualify. But also lets forget that to turn pro, those guys have to really risk their life to do it. I mean like really, on some mom maybe I'm not making it and i might die sh*t. But i will try sh*t. Not no bullsh*t a*s rap life struggle.


Jose Fernandez the ex pitcher for the Miami marlins had an amazing story of defection from Cuba.

 2 months ago '21        #23
Tlatoani  topics gone triple plat - Number 1 spot x1
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Tbf, once you go past middleweight, foreign f*ghters dominate those weight classes.

Our best athletes at 160+ pounds are playing other sports.

Then, below 135, foreign f*ghters dominate too.
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Top 10 most propped recently  2 months ago '17        #24
CJ Schwarz  topics gone triple plat - Number 1 spot x4
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 RustyLorcin said
Yeah these pussies claim to have a hard life. But dont know what a real struggle is. Luis Ortiz gets my respect. Dude is a winner.


Can't believe the guy is questioning why Iglesias is a 32 year amateur. Never mind that he is still within the legal age to be an amateur and qualify. But also lets forget that to turn pro, those guys have to really risk their life to do it. I mean like really, on some mom maybe I'm not making it and i might die sh*t. But i will try sh*t. Not no bullsh*t a*s rap life struggle.


Jose Fernandez the ex pitcher for the Miami marlins had an amazing story of defection from Cuba.
Some people don't know why. That's why others are here to educate.

Yeah those Cuban player stories always keeps me from judging them especially boxers. It was like that with Soviet Union too.
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 2 months ago '18        #25
Kodack sixnine  topics gone triple plat - Number 1 spot x57 OP
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 stogz said
Pretty sure this the first olympics for the rule change.

Don't do good at pros? i don't know what that means.
We have a lot of champions in boxing in the pros but tbh it may not be this way for long. Also 2016 got rid of the headgear and had pro-style judging as well.



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