UPDATED: My Top 100 Players of All Time

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Props Slaps
 07-01-2013, 11:51 PM         #101
bedford1829 
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SPENCER HAYWOOD IS ON THIS LIST. Am i the only one seeing this?
 4 years ago '08        #102
arthurmack27 8 heat pts
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i would prop based on the time and research done to create the list. but that prop is offset by dude not accepting, agreeing, or at least understanding another's argument, as if his is the one and only, god given truth. on that note, TS is good with me. but, i will say, is dude isnt all there if pistol pete is not on the list. the man is literally top 50, nonetheless top 100 on anyone's list who has bball knowledge. TS is on the right path but really needs to re-evaluate his ranking process. cus with that pistol pete sh*t, either he is right with 99% of the bball world is wrong, or we're all on a different planet in a different universe.
 07-02-2013, 02:44 AM         #103
WezLBoy Wonder 
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 bedford1829 said:
SPENCER HAYWOOD IS ON THIS LIST. Am i the only one seeing this?
I didn't even see it! u basically ended the thread
 4 years ago '07        #104
tre0624 74 heat pts74
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Kobe gotta be moved from 4 and down to maybe 8 n Larry Bird is now off the top 10 add D.Robinson or Hakeem. Lebron took Bird spot i think

 Hovi Bryant said:

[pic - click to view]


  1. Michael Jordan
  2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
  3. Tim Duncan
  4. Kobe Bryant
  5. Wilt Chamberlain
  6. Shaquille O'Neal
  7. Magic Johnson
  8. Bill Russell
  9. Larry Bird
  10. LeBron James
  11. Hakeem Olajuwon
  12. Kevin Garnett
  13. Bob Cousy
  14. Julius Erving
  15. Jerry West
  16. Oscar Robertson
  17. John Havlicek
  18. Moses Malone
  19. Karl Malone
  20. Bob Pettit
  21. David Robinson
  22. John Stockton
  23. Scottie Pippen
  24. Rick Barry
  25. Dirk Nowitzki
  26. Artis Gilmore
  27. Jason Kidd
  28. Dennis Rodman
  29. Dwight Howard
  30. Gary Payton
  31. George Gervin
  32. Charles Barkley
  33. Dikembe Mutombo
  34. Elgin Baylor
  35. Allen Iverson
  36. Chris Paul
  37. Dywane Wade
  38. Spencer Haywood
  39. Dennis Johnson
  40. Sam Jones
  41. Steve Nash
  42. Tom Heinsohn
  43. Bill Sharman
  44. Sidney Moncrief
  45. Patrick Ewing
  46. Alonzo Mourning
  47. Kevin McHale
  48. Elvin Hayes
  49. George Mikan
  50. Paul Pierce
  51. Billy Cunningham
  52. Willis Reed
  53. Robert Parish
  54. Isiah Thomas
  55. Joe Dumars
  56. Dan Issel
  57. Dave DeBusschere
  58. Bob McAdoo
  59. Tracy McGrady
  60. George McGinnis
  61. Hal Greer
  62. Ray Allen
  63. Tony Parker
  64. Jerry Lucas
  65. Jimmy Jones
  66. Michael Cooper
  67. Clyde Drexler
  68. Dave Cowens
  69. Chauncey Billups
  70. Vern Mikkelsen
  71. Dolph Schayes
  72. James Worthy
  73. Tiny Archibald
  74. Adrian Dantley
  75. Jo Jo White
  76. Wes Unseld
  77. Neil Johnston
  78. Connie Hawkins
  79. Dominique Wilkins
  80. Paul Westphal
  81. Larry Foust
  82. Pau Gasol
  83. Dave Bing
  84. Mitch Richmond
  85. Grant Hill
  86. Amare Stoudemire
  87. Alex English
  88. Bob Davies
  89. Reggie Miller
  90. Vince Carter
  91. Cliff Hagan
  92. Chris Webber
  93. Chet Walker
  94. Tom Sanders
  95. David Thompson
  96. Zelmo Beaty
  97. Bob Lanier
  98. Lenny Wilkens
  99. Robert Horry
  100. Bill Walton
  101. Jack Sikma

For the full point system and details, I've made a spreadsheet .
 4 years ago '07        #105
tre0624 74 heat pts74
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Dont know what nba u watch but he not better then Duncan,Kareem, Shaq or Chamberlin. Maybe a tiny bit better then David maybe. so about right. Compare the amount of Hakeem good years to the rest

 CrapShoota said:
@ Hakeem being the 6th best big man on that list....

He is top 5 PLAYER no doubt. Those players listed above have more hardware, but not better players
 4 years ago '07        #106
tre0624 74 heat pts74
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Lebron goin into year number 11 thats not just gettin into prime what u talkin bout.. its the Nba none of the guys are old 35 is good age. its the years n mileage u put in so a nba 35 seems older cause the guy probably been playin for 20 years

 ReppinDaBurghh said:
Lebron almost top ten and he literally just started the prime of his career within these past couple years

Watch out MJ
 4 years ago '07        #107
tre0624 74 heat pts74
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I like Iverson but 4 scoring titles. how may shot attempts did he take compared to Howard probably dam near double. Howard shooting pct is way better then Iverson. So i would put Howard over my man A.I

 Impeccable said:
I'm making a tone of blind statements?



Does this not flat out imply I did not go by YOUR STANDARDS?

Yes, I do know how accomplished Howard is. You put him ahead of Allen Iverson

Allen had 4 scoring titles and an MVP. That alone is better than anything Dwight accoomplished. Dwight isn't even top 5 at his position Allen IS

You puy Mutombo ahead of Elgin Baylor

You put Dwight and Mutombo ahead of Mchale... How is Parker that low? Every top 30 player has at least an MVP
 4 years ago '10        #108
Hovi Bryant 676 heat pts676 OP
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 whothebestmc said:
it's a bad list especially in the parts I listed and I didn't look through the whole thing. Terrible scoring..


ROY = championship
Rookie of the Year is an award a player has only one opportunity to win. It's highly opinion based, and will definitely be looked back upon with someone's legacy.

Championships aren't won single-handedly.

Also if you looked at the link in the OP, you'd see that ROY = Championships anyway.

I'm not sure why you guys post without getting your information correct.
 4 years ago '10        #109
Hovi Bryant 676 heat pts676 OP
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 philly337 said:
Disagree..like I said in original thread point system is flawed and doesn't take into.account a lot of things

Kobe and Duncan 3 and 4 should pretty much show you there is something wrong
Come up with something better and I'll explore it. Until then...
 4 years ago '10        #110
Hovi Bryant 676 heat pts676 OP
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 BlackRepub85 said:
LOL @ Robert Horry on the list.

n*ggas are determined to make him significantly better than what he was.
How many players have had a career as long as Horry and won as many championships?

Then come back to see if they're not on the list already.

I'll wait for this one too.
 4 years ago '10        #111
Hovi Bryant 676 heat pts676 OP
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 BlackRepub85 said:
This list has Spencer Haywood and Robert Horry on it and you guys want ti argue with Duncan or Kobe should bw higher?

Is the op gonna address this? Haywood @ 38? He wasnt even 38th in his division when he was in his prime.
I really don't have to address anything when everything has been already.

Spencer Haywood...


5x All-Star: 25 pts
3x 1st Team: 24 pts
844 GP: 15 pts
1x MVP: 10 pts
1x ROY: 10 pts
2x Stat titles (PPG + RPG): 10 pts
2x 2nd Team: 8 pts
1x Championship: 7 pts

Total: 109 points

I actually gave him 15 points for the MVP award, so he's actually higher than he should be. 40th place.
 4 years ago '10        #112
Hovi Bryant 676 heat pts676 OP
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 tre0624 said:
Lebron goin into year number 11 thats not just gettin into prime what u talkin bout.. its the Nba none of the guys are old 35 is good age. its the years n mileage u put in so a nba 35 seems older cause the guy probably been playin for 20 years
35 is old in the NBA.

That's generally the age at which most players retire.

That's 15 seasons in the NBA for players that were drafted at the age of 20.

The average length of a NBA career is about , so... yeah. 15 is a milestone. Anything extra is legendary.

LeBron probably has a good 6 MVP quality seasons left in the tank.
 4 years ago '10        #113
Hovi Bryant 676 heat pts676 OP
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 #TheReturn said:
This L is sig worthy. You really walking through life thinking there hasn't been 30 people in the NBA better than Dwight?
I've checked over 200 players , and .

Come up with 30 additional players (that aren't listed) and I'll discuss it. Until then, no L's for anyone.
 4 years ago '10        #114
Hovi Bryant 676 heat pts676 OP
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 Zeus Hands said:
I don't like the way you put Tim Duncan before Kobe... Change it now..
Duncan has 366 points. Kobe has 353 points.

Not that big of a gap, but they may be finished at this stage in their careers.
 4 years ago '10        #115
Hovi Bryant 676 heat pts676 OP
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 bedford1829 said:
Dennis Rodman at #28 huh? I dont think Im okay with the worm being a head of league MVPs. Players that carried there teams and big enough impacts to win or lose games.

Rodman was the leagues greatest role player but not the 28th best of all time ahead of guy's like Charles Barkley, Iverson, Payton, Wade, etc.

Id even take Dikembe ahead of Rodman.

My argument is basically that Rodman went along for the ride in his championship years. He didnt carry teams to the promise land like Iverson or Barkley did. Christ the year the sixers went to the Finals Iverson didnt have anyone else on the team with a heartbeat. The point is that he was not complete enough of a player to be this high.

Its all relative to personal values in terms of what the list creator values in a basketball player....

Again I dont think Dwight Howard should be 29 or Scottie Pippen 22. Howard hasnt had a complete enough of a career to be ahead of legends like Ewing and Mikan, just plain dumb. Pippen was never more than a second option on his team again a head of guys that carried their organizations on their backs. Flawed reasoning.

Christ isnt anyone going to call out a list with spencer haywood on it?

Its hard to qualify and quantify players into a comprehensive list like this. Its to hard to differentiate variables that changed dramatically from era to era or generation to generation. I mean some guys played without a 3point line, in a time where the game was more physical and defense ruled compared to a modern era in which the rules have facilitated a faster paced, higher scoring style of play. Cross generational analysis is just to difficult. There's no way to determine how James wouldve performed in the 60's and 70's when the height and athleticism of the league was at an all time low or how JOrdan would play today in a league with rules aimed at protecting offensive players and creating more difficulties for the defender. For instance, obviously Wilt dominated in a league where Centers were drastically smaller and the quality of big man was greatly diminished (aside from one or two) but how would he fair today in a league where 6'10" shooting gaurds are the reality and big men are as agile as they are big?

The whole idea of ranking people turns me off, cant we just appreciate the players for what they are....Amazing athletes who play the greatest game on the planet and put on fantastic shows and displays of entertainment for us on a nightly basis.
I believe nostalgia has distorted your opinion of these players. Even then, your underrating of Rodman is disgusting.

Let's talk about Dennis Rodman. You're aware that his number is retired in Detroit? And that Greg Monroe is officially the last Piston to ever don that number?

Yeah, what a great role player he was.

Let's look at his resume, shall we?

7x D 1st Team: 42 points
5x NBA Champion (2x Detroit 3x Chicago): 35 points
7x Stat titles (RPG): 35 points
2x DPOY: 18 points
911 GP: 15 points
15% WS48: 15 points
2x All-Star: 10 points
2x 3rd Team: 6 points
1x D 2nd Team: 3 points

With that said, Rodman's resume is better than everyone that is beneath him on that list.

As stated, this list is a combination of statistical and opinion based accomplishments. Stats represents a lion's share of the point scale. Simply because most players have a hard time qualifying if they haven't played at least 750 games.

If they do qualify, they don't have a WS48 higher than average (15% is the qualifier).

Games played and Win Shares Per 48 are nearly required to even break into the list. This means almost every player on the list has played QUALITY basketball for more than 10 seasons and not just ride coat-tails in search of rings.

If they didn't qualify, then you know they have a ton of rings, awards, and honors. It's quite simple. The awards round out the list, not define it. These guys still have to be beasts on the court to even break into it.


Last edited by Hovi Bryant; 07-02-2013 at 10:51 AM..
 4 years ago '04        #116
TizOnly1 5 heat pts
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You think way too highly of your criteria.

If your criteria leads to results that everybody knows are just wrong.. then your criteria has flaws.

It's OK... any mathematical criteria will be flawed in some way.. it's OK to admit it to yourself. Not to mention, your criteria is broken down into tiers. So if I played 999 games, I get 15 points, but if I played 1000, now all of a sudden I'm 5 points better?

DPOY for 9 points, while MVP is 10 points is fu*king ludicrous.

I'm one of the BIGGEST Robert Horry fans... but it's a joke to have him in the Top 100. If you know basketball at all, you know this.

ROY = Championship? LOLOL.

You know that's completely ridiculous. Everything is subjective.. but ROY is waaaaaaay too subjective to be worth that much. LeBron had to beat Melo/Wade for ROY. Next year, some dude is gonna have to beat a bunch of scrubs to take the award.

ROY isn't even a real award, as far as I'm concerned. It's a feel-good award, for players that can't win other stuff yet in their career. It's the trophy you get for showing up at Little League. It's just saying "for all these guys that we don't expect a whole lot from right now, you did the best". How is that worth the same as a chip?

Dwight Howard at 30 is just stupid... again... it works with YOUR numbers.. but the fact that it works with YOUR numbers, just means YOUR criteria is flawed.

Dennis Rodman over Barkley...... come the fu*k on.

Actually... now that I'm looking at this list a little more.. if rings are worth 10 points, how the fu*k Rodman has 35 points for chips? How does Bird have 21? What he won two chips, and a possible?

In your system, you say rings are 10, but they're really 7.

So again....... ROY is worth MORE than a ring now....

And this all seems right to you...

Again.. the reality is that, even with a perfectly executed numerical system, it's impossible to create an accurate list.

Barkley would have won chips, if the greatest player of All-Time didn't stop him. Malone would have won chips. Horry won rings, but his contribution (as important as they were) just wasn't as large as Iverson in his one run to the Finals in 2001. There's no stat for "best, most important player on this team". Rodman has rings, but you swap Barkley onto those same teams, and you tell me they don't still win? They obviously win even easier, because Barkley was obviously a much better player than Rodman. Rodman's rings say something, but there's such a thing as just looking at the players play the game, and understanding what you're seeing, and no numerical criteria can account for that.

It's a decent list, as far as numerical lists can go.. but you need to step down just slightly from that high horse that has you thinking this list is absolutely perfect.

EDIT- Zo at 48 is also fu*king ridiculous. Zo over Isaiah? Word?


Last edited by TizOnly1; 07-02-2013 at 10:55 AM..
 4 years ago '10        #117
Hovi Bryant 676 heat pts676 OP
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 TizOnly1 said:
You think way too highly of your criteria.

If your criteria leads to results that everybody knows are just wrong.. then your criteria has flaws.

It's OK... any mathematical criteria will be flawed in some way.. it's OK to admit it to yourself. Not to mention, your criteria is broken down into tiers. So if I played 999 games, I get 15 points, but if I played 1000, now all of a sudden I'm 5 points better?

DPOY for 9 points, while MVP is 10 points is fu*king ludicrous.

I'm one of the BIGGEST Robert Horry fans... but it's a joke to have him in the Top 100. If you know basketball at all, you know this.

ROY = Championship? LOLOL.

You know that's completely ridiculous. Everything is subjective.. but ROY is waaaaaaay too subjective to be worth that much. LeBron had to beat Melo/Wade for ROY. Next year, some dude is gonna have to beat a bunch of scrubs to take the award.

ROY isn't even a real award, as far as I'm concerned. It's a feel-good award, for players that can't win other stuff yet in their career. It's the trophy you get for showing up at Little League. It's just saying "for all these guys that we don't expect a whole lot from right now, you did the best". How is that worth the same as a chip?

Dwight Howard at 30 is just stupid... again... it works with YOUR numbers.. but the fact that it works with YOUR numbers, just means YOUR criteria is flawed.

Dennis Rodman over Barkley...... come the fu*k on.

Actually... now that I'm looking at this list a little more.. if rings are worth 10 points, how the fu*k Rodman has 35 points for chips? How does Bird have 21? What he won two chips, and a possible?

In your system, you say rings are 10, but they're really 7.

So again....... ROY is worth MORE than a ring now....

And this all seems right to you...

Again.. the reality is that, even with a perfectly executed numerical system, it's impossible to create an accurate list.

Barkley would have won chips, if the greatest player of All-Time didn't stop him. Malone would have won chips. Horry won rings, but his contribution (as important as they were) just wasn't as large as Iverson in his one run to the Finals in 2001. There's no stat for "best, most important player on this team". Rodman has rings, but you swap Barkley onto those same teams, and you tell me they don't still win? They obviously win even easier, because Barkley was obviously a much better player than Rodman. Rodman's rings say something, but there's such a thing as just looking at the players play the game, and understanding what you're seeing, and no numerical criteria can account for that.

It's a decent list, as far as numerical lists can go.. but you need to step down just slightly from that high horse that has you thinking this list is absolutely perfect.
Instead of just talking some sh*t, just come up with something better. Some alternatives. I've repeatedly stated, I'm open for suggestions.

I didn't even want to read your entire post because what you're saying has already been posted numerous times by people who don't take much time to read. The irony right? No.

ROY does not equate to a championship. It's actually ranked higher now. And I explained my reasoning a few posts ago.

I made a top 30 thread and took suggestions and made a better list. So, in the meantime you have a couple of options:

Get off your high horse and create a better criteria or just get out. Consider yourself ignored until then.
 4 years ago '04        #118
TizOnly1 5 heat pts
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LOL

"consider yourself ignored", as if the attention of "Hovi Bryant" is what I woke up for today.

I don't need to come up with anything better, to see the flaws in what you came up with. Zo over Zeke my n*gga. You need to look at your own results, and let that color your opinion of your criteria a little.

I don't need to make an album to tell you Trinidad James can't rap. I don't need to learn how to direct to tell you Godfather 3 sucked, and I don't need to come up with some numerical criteria to rank basketball players to tell you that your list is flawed.
 4 years ago '10        #119
Hovi Bryant 676 heat pts676 OP
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 BlackRepub85 said:
Ill tKe bavk haywood I reaD his name wrong. But horry no
Robert Horry

1107 GP: 20 points
7x Championships: 49 points

Horry is the only player in the NBA to not be an All-Star, playing that many games, and won that many championships.
 4 years ago '07        #120
tre0624 74 heat pts74
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35 is old but its beacuse those guys have been playing hella long. I think Lebron got bout 3mvp type years in him watch. he will be in season 14. u think he goin still be playing like this in year 17.. hell no

 Hovi Bryant said:
35 is old in the NBA.

That's generally the age at which most players retire.

That's 15 seasons in the NBA for players that were drafted at the age of 20.

The average length of a NBA career is about , so... yeah. 15 is a milestone. Anything extra is legendary.

LeBron probably has a good 6 MVP quality seasons left in the tank.
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