UPDATED: My Top 100 Players of All Time

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Props Slaps
 5 years ago '10        #81
Hovi Bryant 676 heat pts676 OP
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 Bedlam said:
Dwight Howard has benefited playing in an era where the average big man might as well be a 6'10 pile of sh*t on the court. If Dwight played in the 90's, he would have been maybe the 8th or 9th best big man.
I doubt it. The NBA has more rules against physical play today. Howard, with his size and athleticism in the 90's? Not much would change defensively.
 5 years ago '10        #82
Hovi Bryant 676 heat pts676 OP
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 WezLBoy Wonder said:
mutombo Better then wade and iverson I do agree with mj and Kareem ranked top two.
I don't think you know how accomplished Deke is. How can you criticize?
 5 years ago '12        #83
Just BizNis 63 heat pts63
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 Hovi Bryant said:
Win Shares Per 48 is still a stat? We're supposed to throw stats out the window? Sure, PPG and stuff like that can be skewed. However, WS48?

I'd love to hear your argument against it.

Also, I'm not following your case about awards either. Charles won MVP over Michael in the same season he lost in the finals. It's not like players on championship teams clean sweep the awards and honors.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd love to see some evidence of it. Until then, we'd just go back and forth, over a ton of info I've already dug up. Chuck is top 25 on stats alone. Overall? No.
No one ever said anything about throwing stats out the window

My original comment was that using stats alone cannot truly define basketball players and their greatness or lack thereof. Which is one of the reasons the game is so amazing.

Either way though it's all subjective. There is no one definitive list, especially when ranking players overall and not by position (which will undoubtedly lead to disagreements because people view the game and position importance differently).

I also now realize that you're ranking CAREERS and not PLAYERS. Thread title lead me to believe you're ranking players.
 07-01-2013, 07:15 PM         #84
WezLBoy Wonder 
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 Hovi Bryant said:
I don't think you know how accomplished Deke is. How can you criticize?
Can't be better than wade scoring title 3 rings one finals Mvps (one of the greatest) muitluple all stars games, #1 option averaging 25+ for over 7 years. no way he's better than iverson either
 07-01-2013, 07:22 PM         #85
SOCIALITE 
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Pretty solid list. Props

I'd change Magic and Wilt around, put Dirk a tad higher, maybe just right over Stockton, bump Paul Pierce up to 35, move Wade to around 28, and drop D12 to the low 30s

I'd take Kobe over Duncan too but I don't feel as strongly about that as the adjustments I stated above.



EDIT: Just browsed over the spread sheet. Nicely put together. Some will argue the importance of some things over others but that will forever be a huge debate. You came up with a solid system and stuck to it. As with all numbers, some things seem a bit odd, but for the most part this list is about as legit as they come.


Last edited by SOCIALITE; 07-01-2013 at 07:26 PM..
 5 years ago '10        #86
Hovi Bryant 676 heat pts676 OP
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 SOCIALITE said:
Pretty solid list. Props

I'd change Magic and Wilt around, put Dirk a tad higher, maybe just right over Stockton, bump Paul Pierce up to 35, move Wade to around 28, and drop D12 to the low 30s

I'd take Kobe over Duncan too but I don't feel as strongly about that as the adjustments I stated above.
It's not like I just ranked these players based on where I think they should be.

I believe the list is a fair barometer of on court performance, statistically and achievement-wise.

I posted the spreadsheet to see if someone could take this and come up with something better. However, I don't see where anyone outside of Russell era players are being snubbed.
 5 years ago '10        #87
Hovi Bryant 676 heat pts676 OP
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 WezLBoy Wonder said:
Can't be better than wade scoring title 3 rings one finals Mvps (one of the greatest) muitluple all stars games, #1 option averaging 25+ for over 7 years. no way he's better than iverson either
3 rings? Multiple players you've never heard of have twice as many.

Championships are a team accomplishment. It's meaningful to be on the best team, but I can't put that much weight into it for individual players. We already have folks complaining about Robert Horry being top 100. That's what happens when you win 7 rings over 15 seasons.

Anyways, Mutumbo has more awards and honors than Wade, more games, and more stat titles. This stuff adds up regardless of how insigificant you think they are. You're doing an injustice to the sport if you disregard greatness regardless of who wins a title or not.
 5 years ago '11        #88
whothebestmc 99 heat pts99
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kobe at #4

wade at #37....

below dwight howard, chris paul, mutumbo, iverson, rodman etc....
 5 years ago '10        #89
Hovi Bryant 676 heat pts676 OP
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 Ez the Don said:
No one ever said anything about throwing stats out the window

My original comment was that using stats alone cannot truly define basketball players and their greatness or lack thereof. Which is one of the reasons the game is so amazing.

Either way though it's all subjective. There is no one definitive list, especially when ranking players overall and not by position (which will undoubtedly lead to disagreements because people view the game and position importance differently).

I also now realize that you're ranking CAREERS and not PLAYERS. Thread title lead me to believe you're ranking players.
I'm not using stats alone.

However, the criteria is open to suggestions.

It has been changed quite a bit based on the recommendations in the thread that's in my sig.
 5 years ago '10        #90
Hovi Bryant 676 heat pts676 OP
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 whothebestmc said:
kobe at #4

wade at #37....

below dwight howard, chris paul, mutumbo, iverson, rodman etc....
The knee jerk responses are expected.
 5 years ago '06        #91
philly337 21 heat pts21
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Disagree..like I said in original thread point system is flawed and doesn't take into.account a lot of things

Kobe and Duncan 3 and 4 should pretty much show you there is something wrong
 5 years ago '11        #92
whothebestmc 99 heat pts99
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 Hovi Bryant said:
The knee jerk responses are expected.

it's a bad list especially in the parts I listed and I didn't look through the whole thing. Terrible scoring..


ROY = championship
 5 years ago '09        #93
jaybadzil5 1 heat pts
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 Hovi Bryant said:
Let's start with why you believe Oscar Robertson should be ranked above Cousy and Garnett? All three players are very accomplished. The explains why.

In short, both Cousy and Garnett have more honors and awards. Robertson would be ranked above them both if this list was based on pure statistical dominance. I'm sure no one would agree with such a list if it were to be created. LeBron James would be top 3, for example.

In regards to Chris Paul and D-Wade?

I'll break this one down.

Chris Paul

Statistical Performance

555 GP - 0 points
24% WS48 - 25 points


Awards and Honors

6x All-Star - 30 points
ROY - 10 points
3x 1st Team - 24 points
1x 2nd Team - 4 points
1x 3rd Team - 2 points
3x D 1st Team - 18 points
2x D 2nd Team - 6 points

7 Stat titles (5x SPG, 2x APG) - 35 points

Total - 154 points

Wade on the same scale?

665 GP - 0 points
19% WS48 - 15 points

9x All-Star - 45 points
3x Champion - 21 points
2x 1st Team - 16 points
3x 2nd Team - 12 points
3x 3rd Team - 3 points
3x D 2nd Team - 9 points

1 stat title - 5 points

Total - 144 points

The gap isn't large, but Wade missed a lot of games due to injury. That hurt his standing, just like a lot of players on the list.
Well damn
 5 years ago '05        #94
Hold That 104 heat pts104
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 Hovi Bryant said:
Can you name 30 players that are more accomplished than Dwight Howard (that I haven't already listed)?
This L is sig worthy. You really walking through life thinking there hasn't been 30 people in the NBA better than Dwight?
 5 years ago '13        #95
Zeus Hands 2 heat pts
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I don't like the way you put Tim Duncan before Kobe... Change it now..
 5 years ago '12        #96
hou12 
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Kobe at #4 all-time


Lebron still has a lot of time left to already be #10



But with the system this is a pretty legitimate list
 07-01-2013, 10:49 PM         #97
bedford1829 
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Dennis Rodman at #28 huh? I dont think Im okay with the worm being a head of league MVPs. Players that carried there teams and big enough impacts to win or lose games.

Rodman was the leagues greatest role player but not the 28th best of all time ahead of guy's like Charles Barkley, Iverson, Payton, Wade, etc.

Id even take Dikembe ahead of Rodman.

My argument is basically that Rodman went along for the ride in his championship years. He didnt carry teams to the promise land like Iverson or Barkley did. Christ the year the sixers went to the Finals Iverson didnt have anyone else on the team with a heartbeat. The point is that he was not complete enough of a player to be this high.

Its all relative to personal values in terms of what the list creator values in a basketball player....

Again I dont think Dwight Howard should be 29 or Scottie Pippen 22. Howard hasnt had a complete enough of a career to be ahead of legends like Ewing and Mikan, just plain dumb. Pippen was never more than a second option on his team again a head of guys that carried their organizations on their backs. Flawed reasoning.

Christ isnt anyone going to call out a list with spencer haywood on it?

Its hard to qualify and quantify players into a comprehensive list like this. Its to hard to differentiate variables that changed dramatically from era to era or generation to generation. I mean some guys played without a 3point line, in a time where the game was more physical and defense ruled compared to a modern era in which the rules have facilitated a faster paced, higher scoring style of play. Cross generational analysis is just to difficult. There's no way to determine how James wouldve performed in the 60's and 70's when the height and athleticism of the league was at an all time low or how JOrdan would play today in a league with rules aimed at protecting offensive players and creating more difficulties for the defender. For instance, obviously Wilt dominated in a league where Centers were drastically smaller and the quality of big man was greatly diminished (aside from one or two) but how would he fair today in a league where 6'10" shooting gaurds are the reality and big men are as agile as they are big?

The whole idea of ranking people turns me off, cant we just appreciate the players for what they are....Amazing athletes who play the greatest game on the planet and put on fantastic shows and displays of entertainment for us on a nightly basis.
 07-01-2013, 10:51 PM         #98
bedford1829 
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SPENCER HAYWOOD IS ON THIS LIST. Am i the only one seeing this?
 5 years ago '08        #99
arthurmack27 8 heat pts
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i would prop based on the time and research done to create the list. but that prop is offset by dude not accepting, agreeing, or at least understanding another's argument, as if his is the one and only, god given truth. on that note, TS is good with me. but, i will say, is dude isnt all there if pistol pete is not on the list. the man is literally top 50, nonetheless top 100 on anyone's list who has bball knowledge. TS is on the right path but really needs to re-evaluate his ranking process. cus with that pistol pete sh*t, either he is right with 99% of the bball world is wrong, or we're all on a different planet in a different universe.
 07-02-2013, 01:44 AM         #100
WezLBoy Wonder 
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 bedford1829 said:
SPENCER HAYWOOD IS ON THIS LIST. Am i the only one seeing this?
I didn't even see it! u basically ended the thread
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