Jay-Z - "Magna Carta Holy Grail" | Discussion Thread

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Props Slaps
 5 years ago '04        #3081
Mike T 146 heat pts146
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^^^^awwww n*ggas salty
 5 years ago '11        #3082
niccolo29 54 heat pts54
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that OPEN LETTER track still a bonus?????
 5 years ago '06        #3083
jj01 
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i dont get the love for the title track

sh*t is awful, lyrics are weak and jt dominates the track and its too long.

beat is prob the only thing i like. these instrumentals are amazing tho.
 5 years ago '05        #3084
bigpinero 3 heat pts
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Dope boy still smelling like cocaina!

That sh*t cray
 5 years ago '09        #3085
aziatic6 
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damn these "hooks" are garbage

I think Jay is too comfortable he just sounds fu*kin lazy on this
 5 years ago '04        #3086
money36 2 heat pts
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Raekwon must of k!lled him on that heaven track so jay cut his verse.
 5 years ago '07        #3087
TH35 105 heat pts105
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Worked out to it and didn't skip a single track... people said his lyrics were lazy?! I don't even like him that much but this (solo) album is his best since The Black Album. 9/10.


Last edited by TH35; 07-05-2013 at 07:15 AM..
 07-05-2013, 07:08 AM         #3088
cheguevara 
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 Ghost Writer said:
Not even a legit 320 yet?
whats a 320?

i may be able to help you


im listening to the album now, will drop my thoughts later.
 5 years ago '07        #3089
Root Of Evil 56 heat pts56
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safe to say the only people that dont like this album are people that cant listen to both nas and jay and the people that wanted to hate on the album before it even came out
 5 years ago '05        #3090
Philly B 41 heat pts41
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 Root Of Evil said:
safe to say the only people that dont like this album are people that cant listen to both nas and jay and the people that wanted to hate on the album before it even came out
 5 years ago '05        #3091
Nickel 118 heat pts118
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 Hovi Bryant said:
Since we have comparisons between this and LIG...here's my two cents littered through the forms.

Artisitcally and production-wise Jay-Z's album is superior.

Here's why:

Background

Nas is who I categorize as an MC who is very technical in skill (storytelling, wordplay, metaphors, rhyme pattern), but lacks subtleness at times. In other words, he's an artist and a curator at the same time. He could paint a Van Gogh, but he's explaining EVERYTHING along the way. It's in the song title, the lyrics, and even on Rap Genius now. It k!lls the replay value.

He wasn't always like this though. His song titles were much more ambiguous with Illmatic and It Was Written. You can't look at the track-list and tell me One Love is a letter to a locked up friend, or Street Dreams being the life of an aspiring kingpin.

Now? The creativity has run thin. A Queen's story is just what the title says. This is also true for Accident murders, Daughters, The Don, and Summer on Smash. You know what to expect before listening.

Also, you listen to the songs and well... he's just reiterating the song title. Here's one general taboo in art; . Nas has been a violator of this unwritten law every now and then, but most definitely on LIG.

Jay-Z is an artist who's lyrics have grown increasingly ambiguous over the years since his "retirement". Jay-Z's far from vague, but his songs can hit home through a variety of ways to a variety of listeners. This is usually the norm with pop music.

However, Jay-Z's usage of traditional rap devices separate him from the best pop writers in the industry, i.e. "Tom Ford" could be a song about fashion, or braggadocio, or a diss. It's up to the listener. Jay-Z doesn't explicitly force anything on the listener to get a point across. You have to connect the dots yourself. Most answers will ultimately make sense.

Jay-Z does have a point to shoot across in every song, but you'd either have to be a die hard fan or be a critical thinker to decode his train of thought. His frequent usage of double entendres, advanced metaphors (implications and allusions versus using similes), philosophical references cover his tracks fairly well.

His usage of these efficient writing devices compact big, complex sentences and paragraphs into short bars and verses. Jay-Z may be the most efficient Hip-Hop writer ever, given his mastery of basic literary devices.

Bar for Bar

Both Nas and Jay-Z name drop on their albums, highlighting the contrasting nature of Nas' curation of his work versus Jay-Z's efficient ambiguity.


[pic - click to view]





Nas – Accident murderers

Can't play with these little n*ggas, gangsta little n*ggas
Can't hang with these little n*ggas, they k!lling, they reckless
Wish I could build with him, but will he change really
Some real k!llers
I think of Wayne Perry


Jay-Z - Tom Ford

Hands down got the best flow, sound I'm so special
Sound boy burial, this my Wayne Perry flow
Y'all know nothing about Wayne Perry though
District of Columbia, guns on your Tumblrs


Nas is attaching Wayne Perry to the theme of the song, while Jay is very clever, alluding to k!lling the beat, also noting the contradictory lifestyle of most rappers on their rise to fame. Jay-Z does in a few bars what some could write an entire song about. Nas didn't have to mention Perry at all, it's almost like a wasted line to further drive a point home.

Nas - Daughters

And I ain't tryna mess your thing up
But I just wanna see you dream up
I finally understand
It ain't easy to raise a girl as a single man


Jay-Z - Jay-Z Blue

Life changed again I was already taking off
My flight changed again
Slight change of winds
It's barely 12 noon
And my wife changed again


The contrasting nature of Nas and Jay-Z are on full display once again. Nas goes pretty hard at his daughter, while Jay-Z goes hard at himself. I think that's the stark difference between Nas and Jay, and the most ironic aspect of their critics.

Most Jay-Z detractors abhor his first person perspective of life, as it's just "bragging about x, y, and z" ... but he's giving you his train of thought on a platter with every song. I believe most people rob themselves of the experience by writing him off so quickly. Jay-Z's apparent paranoia of being a bad father reflects the actuality of Nas' song, something he could (or should) have accomplished versus blasting his daughter on wax.

Besides lyrical displays, Jay-Z's flow has evolved into something that's love or hate. This man rhymes to bass-lines, snares, high hats, it always changes up. I think it's pretty fu*kin impressive. Picasso Baby, Holy Grail, Tom Ford, La Famillia, etc, Jay's flow can change mid verse or mid song, or from just song to song. It keeps the album fresh IMO. Nas, doesn't branch out too much on LIG. Some prefer that.

I'm giving the nod to lyrics and delivery to Jay here.


Production...

Does anyone think LIG has better production than MCHG? Both albums pass the laptop speaker test, but damn MCHG k!lls the car test with flying colors.

Overall, LIG is solid, but MCHG is amazing. Spades.


 Root Of Evil said:
safe to say the only people that dont like this album are people that cant listen to both nas and jay and the people that wanted to hate on the album before it even came out
too much truth
 5 years ago '04        #3092
DSOM 38 heat pts38
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 Root Of Evil said:
safe to say the only people that dont like this album are people that cant listen to both nas and jay and the people that wanted to hate on the album before it even came out
u already know....

n*ggas go in knowing they down even like the n*gga but they listen anyway.

y even waste your time?


Its not like he's a new artist and your looking for him to improve and turn u into a fan now.

n*gga got 12 albums. if u aint a fan by now then get the fu*k on lol.


Last edited by DSOM; 07-05-2013 at 08:55 AM..
 5 years ago '04        #3093
Javon23 287 heat pts287
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 Root Of Evil said:
safe to say the only people that dont like this album are people that cant listen to both nas and jay and the people that wanted to hate on the album before it even came out
Yall already called it a classic before it even came out.
Oh the hypocrisy
 5 years ago '07        #3094
Root Of Evil 56 heat pts56
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 Javon23 said:
Yall already called it a classic before it even came out.
Oh the hypocrisy
yalll n*ggas DUNCE as fu*k

people say things in jest and u tattoo it on your brain

 5 years ago '08        #3095
bkid 137 heat pts137
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Digital download and CD:
Australia - July 8, 2013
Germany - July 8, 2013
United States - July 9, 2013
United Kingdom - July 15, 2013



where them
[spoiler - click to view]

?

physical dropping in 3 days
 5 years ago '09        #3096
sgcsnc 1 heat pts
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$356 | Props total: 0 0
Tom Ford wack as fu*k

[pic - click to view]

 5 years ago '04        #3097
toonice12 134 heat pts134
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 sgcsnc said:
Tom Ford wack as fu*k

[pic - click to view]

I don't pop molly's. I pop Tom Ford's
 5 years ago '04        #3098
killababi 32 heat pts32
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$16,773 | Props total: 3068 3068
its not amazing, its not wack, its ok.....Production not all that to me....Swear i knew what BBC would sound like before I heard it smh @ Pharrell but, ima give the album more time to grow on me.
 5 years ago '09        #3099
Vos 2 heat pts
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now I'm wondering what happened to the song Jay recorded with Raekwon...
 5 years ago '04        #3100
VickVega 1 heat pts
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Since when did all you motherfu*kers like raekwon? Album is fire. Set the party off last night.
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