Jay-Z - "Magna Carta Holy Grail" | Discussion Thread

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 4 years ago '05        #3041
iggyemu 
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This is the very best that Jay is capable of these days. That's both a compliment and a criticism. But lets be honest...no hip hop artist will ever have a 12th studio album that's this good. 12 albums deep and still capable of making a solid, entertaining album. Criticize Jay all you want but his biggest a.sset in any argument that debates the greatest ever is longevity.
 4 years ago '09        #3042
thegoldenhero 3 heat pts
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Am i the only one that fu*ks with Part II? and i slept on Jay Z Blue
 4 years ago '04        #3043
DJ Maximum|M 47 heat pts47
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 cankstoochie said:
BP3, WTT, and MCHG are all classic albums!
it was decent tho to me
 4 years ago '09        #3044
thegoldenhero 3 heat pts
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 ballergenetics said:
I knew you just didn't let it marinate yet. Song is great...
And ya, Part 2 is slick..
Yeah definitely like it more then Oceans now...Somewhere In America is dope as hell as well but i wish he blacked out on that beat.
 4 years ago '09        #3045
trock34 93 heat pts93
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Part II is dope especially since that was the track I was worried about the most


Nickels and Dimes
 4 years ago '12        #3046
AJtheGreat 26 heat pts26
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 iggyemu said:
This is the very best that Jay is capable of these days. That's both a compliment and a criticism. But lets be honest...no hip hop artist will ever have a 12th studio album that's this good. 12 albums deep and still capable of making a solid, entertaining album. Criticize Jay all you want but his biggest a.sset in any argument that debates the greatest ever is longevity.
I wish 40% of rap artists could make an album this good, let alone still be successful on their 12th album


Last edited by AJtheGreat; 07-04-2013 at 08:50 PM..
 07-04-2013, 08:54 PM         #3047
CIDF 
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haven't even listened yet n*ggas wildin. i'ma sit down w a blunt tomorrow and slap this on the speakers. i don't believe hype, and i don't believe the opinion of a desperate listener who wants to leave their opinion more than they want to listen to the music. jay-z read my post on boxden i told that n*gga to come w some quality soon or i'ma give nas his title. will he deliver? i don't know yet. and you fu*ks have been jackin off to the album all day and night. congratulations, but i'm gonna jack off to this album tomorrow then bust all over the keyboard cuz thats what rill n*ggas doo
 4 years ago '05        #3048
mattdogg444 
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 CIDF said:
haven't even listened yet n*ggas wildin. i'ma sit down w a blunt tomorrow and slap this on the speakers. i don't believe hype, and i don't believe the opinion of a desperate listener who wants to leave their opinion more than they want to listen to the music. jay-z read my post on boxden i told that n*gga to come w some quality soon or i'ma give nas his title. will he deliver? i don't know yet. and you fu*ks have been jackin off to the album all day and night. congratulations, but i'm gonna jack off to this album tomorrow then bust all over the keyboard cuz thats what rill n*ggas doo
I'd jack off all day and night regardless of the album
 4 years ago '04        #3049
biggz 29 heat pts29
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Album is alright....the production is good of course Timbaland produced almost every song.....Rick Ross almost ruined the album.
 07-04-2013, 09:15 PM         #3050
kk504 
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 DSmith93 said:
vol3 over this album... really and this n*gga got b3 over vol 1 ur opinion is all over the place
DSmith93



lil n*gga you were 4 still sh*ttin your dun-ta-duns when vol 1 dropped.

sit your a.ss down.


Last edited by kk504; 07-12-2013 at 09:04 AM..
 07-04-2013, 09:28 PM         #3051
kk504 
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 ballergenetics said:
Was born in 84, and I agree with him. Bp3 over Vol.1 is pure fu*kin foolishness..lol

i'm old enough to know what it was like driving around in an actual whip bumpin vol 1.

and yet bp3 was just a little more cohesive to me.

after all, it is my fu*king opinion. so now i'm supposed to change it cause you and this lil n*gga disagree?


Last edited by kk504; 07-04-2013 at 11:36 PM..
 4 years ago '10        #3052
Hovi Bryant 676 heat pts676
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Since we have comparisons between this and LIG...here's my two cents littered through the forms.

Artisitcally and production-wise Jay-Z's album is superior.

Here's why:

Background

Nas is who I categorize as an MC who is very technical in skill (storytelling, wordplay, metaphors, rhyme pattern), but lacks subtleness at times. In other words, he's an artist and a curator at the same time. He could paint a Van Gogh, but he's explaining EVERYTHING along the way. It's in the song title, the lyrics, and even on Rap Genius now. It k!lls the replay value.

He wasn't always like this though. His song titles were much more ambiguous with Illmatic and It Was Written. You can't look at the track-list and tell me One Love is a letter to a locked up friend, or Street Dreams being the life of an aspiring kingpin.

Now? The creativity has run thin. A Queen's story is just what the title says. This is also true for Accident murders, Daughters, The Don, and Summer on Smash. You know what to expect before listening.

Also, you listen to the songs and well... he's just reiterating the song title. Here's one general taboo in art; . Nas has been a violator of this unwritten law every now and then, but most definitely on LIG.

Jay-Z is an artist who's lyrics have grown increasingly ambiguous over the years since his "retirement". Jay-Z's far from vague, but his songs can hit home through a variety of ways to a variety of listeners. This is usually the norm with pop music.

However, Jay-Z's usage of traditional rap devices separate him from the best pop writers in the industry, i.e. "Tom Ford" could be a song about fashion, or braggadocio, or a diss. It's up to the listener. Jay-Z doesn't explicitly force anything on the listener to get a point across. You have to connect the dots yourself. Most answers will ultimately make sense.

Jay-Z does have a point to shoot across in every song, but you'd either have to be a die hard fan or be a critical thinker to decode his train of thought. His frequent usage of double entendres, advanced metaphors (implications and allusions versus using similes), philosophical references cover his tracks fairly well.

His usage of these efficient writing devices compact big, complex sentences and paragraphs into short bars and verses. Jay-Z may be the most efficient Hip-Hop writer ever, given his mastery of basic literary devices.

Bar for Bar

Both Nas and Jay-Z name drop on their albums, highlighting the contrasting nature of Nas' curation of his work versus Jay-Z's efficient ambiguity.


[pic - click to view]



According to police, [Perry] was legendary for his willingness to k!ll at will- in broad daylight, up close and personal, in front of the police- it didn’t matter if you were on his hit list you could be k!lled anywhere in front of anyone. There was nowhere to hide, it’s alleged that Silk would lay in wait for his prey all night until he got his opportunity to strike.
Nas – Accident murderers

Can't play with these little n*ggas, gangsta little n*ggas
Can't hang with these little n*ggas, they k!lling, they reckless
Wish I could build with him, but will he change really
Some real k!llers
I think of Wayne Perry


Jay-Z - Tom Ford

Hands down got the best flow, sound I'm so special
Sound boy burial, this my Wayne Perry flow
Y'all know nothing about Wayne Perry though
District of Columbia, guns on your Tumblrs


Nas is attaching Wayne Perry to the theme of the song, while Jay is very clever, alluding to k!lling the beat, also noting the contradictory lifestyle of most rappers on their rise to fame. Jay-Z does in a few bars what some could write an entire song about. Nas didn't have to mention Perry at all, it's almost like a wasted line to further drive a point home.

Nas - Daughters

And I ain't tryna mess your thing up
But I just wanna see you dream up
I finally understand
It ain't easy to raise a girl as a single man


Jay-Z - Jay-Z Blue

Life changed again I was already taking off
My flight changed again
Slight change of winds
It's barely 12 noon
And my wife changed again


The contrasting nature of Nas and Jay-Z are on full display once again. Nas goes pretty hard at his daughter, while Jay-Z goes hard at himself. I think that's the stark difference between Nas and Jay, and the most ironic aspect of their critics.

Most Jay-Z detractors abhor his first person perspective of life, as it's just "bragging about x, y, and z" ... but he's giving you his train of thought on a platter with every song. I believe most people rob themselves of the experience by writing him off so quickly. Jay-Z's apparent paranoia of being a bad father reflects the actuality of Nas' song, something he could (or should) have accomplished versus blasting his daughter on wax.

Besides lyrical displays, Jay-Z's flow has evolved into something that's love or hate. This man rhymes to bass-lines, snares, high hats, it always changes up. I think it's pretty fu*kin impressive. Picasso Baby, Holy Grail, Tom Ford, La Famillia, etc, Jay's flow can change mid verse or mid song, or from just song to song. It keeps the album fresh IMO. Nas, doesn't branch out too much on LIG. Some prefer that.

I'm giving the nod to lyrics and delivery to Jay here.


Production...

Does anyone think LIG has better production than MCHG? Both albums pass the laptop speaker test, but damn MCHG k!lls the car test with flying colors.

Overall, LIG is solid, but MCHG is amazing. Spades.
 07-04-2013, 09:37 PM         #3053
kk504 
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 Hovi Bryant said:
Since we have comparisons between this and LIG...here's my two cents littered through the forms.

Artisitcally and production-wise Jay-Z's album is superior.

Here's why:

Background

Nas is who I categorize as an MC who is very technical in skill (storytelling, wordplay, metaphors, rhyme pattern), but lacks subtleness at times. In other words, he's an artist and a curator at the same time. He could paint a Van Gogh, but he's explaining EVERYTHING along the way. It's in the song title, the lyrics, and even on Rap Genius now. It k!lls the replay value.

He wasn't always like this though. His song titles were much more ambiguous with Illmatic and It Was Written. You can't look at the track-list and tell me One Love is a letter to a locked up friend, or Street Dreams being the life of an aspiring kingpin.

Now? The creativity has run thin. A Queen's story is just what the title says. This is also true for Accident murders, Daughters, The Don, and Summer on Smash. You know what to expect before listening.

Also, you listen to the songs and well... he's just reiterating the song title. Here's one general taboo in art; . Nas has been a violator of this unwritten law every now and then, but most definitely on LIG.

Jay-Z is an artist who's lyrics have grown increasingly ambiguous over the years since his "retirement". Jay-Z's far from vague, but his songs can hit home through a variety of ways to a variety of listeners. This is usually the norm with pop music.

However, Jay-Z's usage of traditional rap devices separate him from the best pop writers in the industry, i.e. "Tom Ford" could be a song about fashion, or braggadocio, or a diss. It's up to the listener. Jay-Z doesn't explicitly force anything on the listener to get a point across. You have to connect the dots yourself. Most answers will ultimately make sense.

Jay-Z does have a point to shoot across in every song, but you'd either have to be a die hard fan or be a critical thinker to decode his train of thought. His frequent usage of double entendres, advanced metaphors (implications and allusions versus using similes), philosophical references cover his tracks fairly well.

His usage of these efficient writing devices compact big, complex sentences and paragraphs into short bars and verses. Jay-Z may be the most efficient Hip-Hop writer ever, given his mastery of basic literary devices.

Bar for Bar

Both Nas and Jay-Z name drop on their albums, highlighting the contrasting nature of Nas' curation of his work versus Jay-Z's efficient ambiguity.


[pic - click to view]





Nas – Accident murderers

Can't play with these little n*ggas, gangsta little n*ggas
Can't hang with these little n*ggas, they k!lling, they reckless
Wish I could build with him, but will he change really
Some real k!llers
I think of Wayne Perry


Jay-Z - Tom Ford

Hands down got the best flow, sound I'm so special
Sound boy burial, this my Wayne Perry flow
Y'all know nothing about Wayne Perry though
District of Columbia, guns on your Tumblrs


Nas is attaching Wayne Perry to the theme of the song, while Jay is very clever, alluding to k!lling the beat, also noting the contradictory lifestyle of most rappers on their rise to fame. Jay-Z does in a few bars what some could write an entire song about. Nas didn't have to mention Perry at all, it's almost like a wasted line to further drive a point home.

Nas - Daughters

And I ain't tryna mess your thing up
But I just wanna see you dream up
I finally understand
It ain't easy to raise a girl as a single man


Jay-Z - Jay-Z Blue

Life changed again I was already taking off
My flight changed again
Slight change of winds
It's barely 12 noon
And my wife changed again


The contrasting nature of Nas and Jay-Z are on full display once again. Nas goes pretty hard at his daughter, while Jay-Z goes hard at himself. I think that's the stark difference between Nas and Jay, and the most ironic aspect of their critics.

Most Jay-Z detractors abhor his first person perspective of life, as it's just "bragging about x, y, and z" ... but he's giving you his train of thought on a platter with every song. I believe most people rob themselves of the experience by writing him off so quickly. Jay-Z's apparent paranoia of being a bad father reflects the actuality of Nas' song, something he could (or should) have accomplished versus blasting his daughter on wax.

Besides lyrical displays, Jay-Z's flow has evolved into something that's love or hate. This man rhymes to bass-lines, snares, high hats, it always changes up. I think it's pretty fu*kin impressive. Picasso Baby, Holy Grail, Tom Ford, La Famillia, etc, Jay's flow can change mid verse or mid song, or from just song to song. It keeps the album fresh IMO. Nas, doesn't branch out too much on LIG. Some prefer that.

I'm giving the nod to lyrics and delivery to Jay here.


Production...

Does anyone think LIG has better production than MCHG? Both albums pass the laptop speaker test, but damn MCHG k!lls the car test with flying colors.

Overall, LIG is solid, but MCHG is amazing. Spades.

[pic - click to view]



Last edited by kk504; 07-04-2013 at 09:39 PM..
 4 years ago '09        #3054
thegoldenhero 3 heat pts
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 Hovi Bryant said:

[pic - click to view]


So you created a long a.ss post using Microsoft Word now you gonna post it everywhere till someone cares...is that the idea?
 07-04-2013, 09:40 PM         #3055
.aviator.man. 
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jay droppin a special album
 4 years ago '10        #3056
Walmart 8 heat pts
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So far MCHG sounds average to me, but I'll give it more time to sink in
 4 years ago '05        #3057
PCP MC 2 heat pts
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$1,347 | Props total: 0 0
 Hovi Bryant said:
Since we have comparisons between this and LIG...here's my two cents littered through the forms.

Artisitcally and production-wise Jay-Z's album is superior.

Here's why:

Background

Nas is who I categorize as an MC who is very technical in skill (storytelling, wordplay, metaphors, rhyme pattern), but lacks subtleness at times. In other words, he's an artist and a curator at the same time. He could paint a Van Gogh, but he's explaining EVERYTHING along the way. It's in the song title, the lyrics, and even on Rap Genius now. It k!lls the replay value.

He wasn't always like this though. His song titles were much more ambiguous with Illmatic and It Was Written. You can't look at the track-list and tell me One Love is a letter to a locked up friend, or Street Dreams being the life of an aspiring kingpin.

Now? The creativity has run thin. A Queen's story is just what the title says. This is also true for Accident murders, Daughters, The Don, and Summer on Smash. You know what to expect before listening.

Also, you listen to the songs and well... he's just reiterating the song title. Here's one general taboo in art; don't explain. Nas has been a violator of this unwritten law every now and then, but most definitely on LIG.

Jay-Z is an artist who's lyrics have grown increasingly ambiguous over the years since his "retirement". Jay-Z's far from vague, but his songs can hit home through a variety of ways to a variety of listeners. This is usually the norm with pop music.

However, Jay-Z's usage of traditional rap devices separate him from the best pop writers in the industry, i.e. "Tom Ford" could be a song about fashion, or braggadocio, or a diss. It's up to the listener. Jay-Z doesn't explicitly force anything on the listener to get a point across. You have to connect the dots yourself. Most answers will ultimately make sense.

Jay-Z does have a point to shoot across in every song, but you'd either have to be a die hard fan or be a critical thinker to decode his train of thought. His frequent usage of double entendres, advanced metaphors (implications and allusions versus using similes), philosophical references cover his tracks fairly well.

His usage of these efficient writing devices compact big, complex sentences and paragraphs into short bars and verses. Jay-Z may be the most efficient Hip-Hop writer ever, given his mastery of basic literary devices.

Bar for Bar

Both Nas and Jay-Z name drop on their albums, highlighting the contrasting nature of Nas' curation of his work versus Jay-Z's efficient ambiguity.


[pic - click to view]





Nas Accident murderers

Can't play with these little n*ggas, gangsta little n*ggas
Can't hang with these little n*ggas, they k!lling, they reckless
Wish I could build with him, but will he change really
Some real k!llers
I think of Wayne Perry


Jay-Z - Tom Ford

Hands down got the best flow, sound I'm so special
Sound boy burial, this my Wayne Perry flow
Y'all know nothing about Wayne Perry though
District of Columbia, guns on your Tumblrs


Nas is attaching Wayne Perry to the theme of the song, while Jay is very clever, alluding to k!lling the beat, also noting the contradictory lifestyle of most rappers on their rise to fame. Jay-Z does in a few bars what some could write an entire song about. Nas didn't have to mention Perry at all, it's almost like a wasted line to further drive a point home.

Nas - Daughters

And I ain't tryna mess your thing up
But I just wanna see you dream up
I finally understand
It ain't easy to raise a girl as a single man


Jay-Z - Jay-Z Blue

Life changed again I was already taking off
My flight changed again
Slight change of winds
It's barely 12 noon
And my wife changed again


The contrasting nature of Nas and Jay-Z are on full display once again. Nas goes pretty hard at his daughter, while Jay-Z goes hard at himself. I think that's the stark difference between Nas and Jay, and the most ironic aspect of their critics.

Most Jay-Z detractors abhor his first person perspective of life, as it's just "bragging about x, y, and z" ... but he's giving you his train of thought on a platter with every song. I believe most people rob themselves of the experience by writing him off so quickly. Jay-Z's apparent paranoia of being a bad father reflects the actuality of Nas' song, something he could (or should) have accomplished versus blasting his daughter on wax.

Besides lyrical displays, Jay-Z's flow has evolved into something that's love or hate. This man rhymes to bass-lines, snares, high hats, it always changes up. I think it's pretty fu*kin impressive. Picasso Baby, Holy Grail, Tom Ford, La Famillia, etc, Jay's flow can change mid verse or mid song, or from just song to song. It keeps the album fresh IMO. Nas, doesn't branch out too much on LIG. Some prefer that.

I'm giving the nod to lyrics and delivery to Jay here.


Production...

Does anyone think LIG has better production than MCHG? Both albums pass the laptop speaker test, but damn MCHG k!lls the car test with flying colors.

Overall, LIG is solid, but MCHG is amazing. Spades.
How the FUCC are you gon say don't explain sh*t and then make this post? This sh*t is color-coded, has diagrams, flow charts, pictures, references and a goddamn powerpoint presentation attached to it.

By your logic and reasoning my post is far better than yours. And before you say "well I said art this is not art" I'm speaking about the economy and usage of words in general, which as you pointed out, is what rap is about.
 07-04-2013, 09:45 PM         #3058
ralph lauren 
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that beyonce track grew on me

 4 years ago '10        #3059
Hovi Bryant 676 heat pts676
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$30,730 | Props total: 19626 19626
 PCP MC said:
How the FUCC are you gon say don't explain sh*t and then make this post? This sh*t is color-coded, has diagrams, flow charts, pictures, references and a goddamn powerpoint presentation attached to it.

By your logic and reasoning my post is far better than yours. And before you say "well I said art this is not art" I'm speaking about the economy and usage of words in general, which as you pointed out, is what rap is about.
When voicing an argument, you explain your points? No?

You're not well versed with writing or debates?

Figured.
 4 years ago '05        #3060
katalist 229 heat pts229
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 DJ Maximum said:
picasso baby is just mean i love it too many good beats on here
The album is very well produced, im not huge on the lyrics but there is no denying the beats is dope as fu*k
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