Is J Cole talking about Hov on the second verse on Rich Niggas?

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 5 years ago '11        #41
Blue Dream 8 heat pts
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But Born Sinner was wack they said, Cole's bars were average at best they said
 5 years ago '04        #42
justinjones 307 heat pts307
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this album got a lot more meanings to it than people real eyes
 5 years ago '06        #43
Down-N-H-Town 6 heat pts
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 WavyCrockett said:

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 5 years ago '13        #44
The Originator 15 heat pts15
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 WavyCrockett said:

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 5 years ago '04        #45
Demac 2 heat pts
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 justinjones said:
And most if rap uses the same 8 vsts
.... Great point!
 5 years ago '05        #46
hanis 
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if he feels a way about jay, he would never, ever , ever in his life even throw a subliminal at the man, think about what you guys are really accusing him of right now... no matter how jay treats him, acts towards him, says to him, all he can do is sit there and take it and quite frankly he's probably happy that jay even acknowledges him...

first, this is a kid who used to wear a "produce for jay z or die" t-shirt proudly in college

second, if jay doesn't give him a shot (given that mark pitts deciding to manage him was really what gave him a shot), and put him as the first artist on roc nation when he started it, none of you guys know who j cole is to this day, the platform he gave him, the resources he gave him, the looks he gave him, there is no man alive who is ungrateful enough to take shots at the man who set him up to have money in his pocket for the rest of his life

and third, he could possibly be taking some shots at ye, i get the impression he kinda feels some way or another about him from little things him and his people have said in the past and now leading up to this point, but in reality its not him either and its a reach, kanye is exactly WHO HE IS TRYING TO BE, kanye paved the road for the rapper/producer to be taken seriously, if there's no kanye, his label is telling him he needs to stop producing, cause he beats are average at best for the most part, and stick to perfecting the craft of rapping
 5 years ago '10        #47
Agentzer0oo0 209 heat pts209
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 hanis said:
if he feels a way about jay, he would never, ever , ever in his life even throw a subliminal at the man, think about what you guys are really accusing him of right now... no matter how jay treats him, acts towards him, says to him, all he can do is sit there and take it and quite frankly he's probably happy that jay even acknowledges him...

first, this is a kid who used to wear a "produce for jay z or die" t-shirt proudly in college

second, if jay doesn't give him a shot (given that mark pitts deciding to manage him was really what gave him a shot), and put him as the first artist on roc nation when he started it, none of you guys know who j cole is to this day, the platform he gave him, the resources he gave him, the looks he gave him, there is no man alive who is ungrateful enough to take shots at the man who set him up to have money in his pocket for the rest of his life


and third, he could possibly be taking some shots at ye, i get the impression he kinda feels some way or another about him from little things him and his people have said in the past and now leading up to this point, but in reality its not him either and its a reach, kanye is exactly WHO HE IS TRYING TO BE, kanye paved the road for the rapper/producer to be taken seriously, if there's no kanye, his label is telling him he needs to stop producing, cause he beats are average at best for the most part, and stick to perfecting the craft of rapping


I was deadass waiting for somebody to say something like this, cuz I wasn't gonna waste my time talking to these fu*king idiots in here
 5 years ago '06        #48
Doe Sun 3 heat pts
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Might be the case since I felt he somewhat disrespected jay on that disappoint Nas joint
 5 years ago '04        #49
psylence2k 58 heat pts58
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 hanis said:

first, this is a kid who used to wear a "produce for jay z or die" t-shirt proudly in college
 Agentzer0oo0 said:


I was deadass waiting for somebody to say something like this, cuz I wasn't gonna waste my time talking to these fu*king idiots in here

I dont think that necessarily rules it out, I mean look at what he rapped before as someone else in here already quoted

"Yeah I got a chip on my shoulder the size of the Golden Nugget
The industry overlook me for that I be holding grudges
Wouldn’t take a chance on me
Suddenly it's, oh you love it
Let's get a Cole feature that's gon' put you over budget
Picture being broke with no pot to p!ss in
And then suddenly your idols is your competition
Used to be like God to me, slowly losing my religion

As these notes from my composition turn to compositions, then
Put it out and hope the World sing
We sippin’ liquor for the pain that the World bring
We had dreams just to make it up the flag pole
Just to find out that out heroes were some a.ss holes
Y’all dont hear me, maybe you had the World figured out wrong
When these n*ggas go from singing our songs to waiting on you
Bout a year later the same ones be hatin’ on you
Every other record these rappers be faking on you
We singing songs but we know that ain't true
We know you gotta make the people pay you
Cause either you play the game or watch the game play you
And be that broke muthafu*ker talkin bout “I stay true”

just because you feel one way about someone one day doesn't mean you're always gonna feel that way about them. Especially considering many factors including them changing over time and you not even personally knowing them when you idolized them before.

That's why there's that age old saying that goes " never meet your idols, because you'll be disappointed "
 5 years ago '04        #50
justinjones 307 heat pts307
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j.cole also had that jay- quote on his last album..

just saying
 5 years ago '08        #51
matthew2777 2 heat pts
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he cud be talking about nas when he says heroes were some a.ss holes


and its obvious jay z has talked sh*t about j cole and kendrick and is competition with them and claiming the crown

but on jayzs part its a friendly rivalry...as for kendrick and cole..they prolly think hes a egotistical as*hole
 5 years ago '05        #52
hanis 
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 psylence2k said:
I dont think that necessarily rules it out, I mean look at what he rapped before as someone else in here already quoted




just because you feel one way about someone one day doesn't mean you're always gonna feel that way about them. Especially considering many factors including them changing over time and you not even personally knowing them when you idolized them before.

That's why there's that age old saying that goes " never meet your idols, because you'll be disappointed "
yeah thats all well and good, but when your 'idol' allowed you to provide for yourself and your family for the rest of your life (in the event that he actually has half a brain and has made some decent investments, along with the money he is going to make in the next 4 to 5 years) why would you even think about sh*tting on them. jay could walk up to him everyday and call him a fu*kboy and he shouldn't feel any sort of way, that man gave him the opportunity to be a somebody, and yes he took that opportunity and did something with it, and he deserves credit for that, but again, cole is nowhere in life without jay giving him the midas touch, we all know this, this is how the game works, you never bite the hand that feeds you, unless you are some type of ungrateful person, which cole doesn't seem to be at all.

and to be honest, from all the stories you hear about jay and how he moves and how he is in person, i doubt he really ever talks to him, nor pays attention enough to him for cole to be like "fu*k this guy he treats me like sh*t, i'm gonna throw shot after shot at him on my songs", it just doesn't add up, you guys are really trying to create something out of nothing, he could be talking about a bunch of different people, sh*t, he could be throwing some shots at canibus in some of those lines, as cole has said himself that 'bus was his favorite rapper for a really long time
 5 years ago '10        #53
Agentzer0oo0 209 heat pts209
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 psylence2k said:
I dont think that necessarily rules it out, I mean look at what he rapped before as someone else in here already quoted




just because you feel one way about someone one day doesn't mean you're always gonna feel that way about them. Especially considering many factors including them changing over time and you not even personally knowing them when you idolized them before.

That's why there's that age old saying that goes " never meet your idols, because you'll be disappointed "
Wouldn't he be talking about Canibus then?
 5 years ago '06        #54
Yung Dilla 1479 heat pts1479
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 hanis said:
yeah thats all well and good, but when your 'idol' allowed you to provide for yourself and your family for the rest of your life (in the event that he actually has half a brain and has made some decent investments, along with the money he is going to make in the next 4 to 5 years) why would you even think about sh*tting on them. jay could walk up to him everyday and call him a fu*kboy and he shouldn't feel any sort of way, that man gave him the opportunity to be a somebody, and yes he took that opportunity and did something with it, and he deserves credit for that, but again, cole is nowhere in life without jay giving him the midas touch, we all know this, this is how the game works, you never bite the hand that feeds you, unless you are some type of ungrateful person, which cole doesn't seem to be at all.

and to be honest, from all the stories you hear about jay and how he moves and how he is in person, i doubt he really ever talks to him, nor pays attention enough to him for cole to be like "fu*k this guy he treats me like sh*t, i'm gonna throw shot after shot at him on my songs", it just doesn't add up, you guys are really trying to create something out of nothing, he could be talking about a bunch of different people, sh*t, he could be throwing some shots at canibus in some of those lines, as cole has said himself that 'bus was his favorite rapper for a really long time
This could be the problem. Cole looked up to jay mega as you pointed out in college. He was hyped up when he got signed always bigging up jay. Jay keeps ignoring him slowly but surely cole is gonna feel a certain way. That whole ''this is the guy that made a way for cole to be known'' doesn't really fly because this has happened so much in hip-hop gucci waka, g-unit. To name a few
 5 years ago '05        #55
hanis 
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 Yung Dilla said:
This could be the problem. Cole looked up to jay mega as you pointed out in college. He was hyped up when he got signed always bigging up jay. Jay keeps ignoring him slowly but surely cole is gonna feel a certain way. That whole ''this is the guy that made a way for cole to be known'' doesn't really fly because this has happened so much in hip-hop gucci waka, g-unit. To name a few
idk, cole just doesn't seem like the type, from numerous interactions with him and doing shows with him, he is one of the few rappers i've been around who actually is a genuinely good guy, and thats coming from someone who is a non rapper so he doesn't need to be fake nice to me, it just seems like he has a pretty good grasp on what to do and not do , and this is just never going to end well for him if somehow it comes out he feels a way about jay, so early into his career, it makes no sense
 5 years ago '12        #56
sigNN 14 heat pts14
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 Yung Dilla said:
This could be the problem. Cole looked up to jay mega as you pointed out in college. He was hyped up when he got signed always bigging up jay. Jay keeps ignoring him slowly but surely cole is gonna feel a certain way. That whole ''this is the guy that made a way for cole to be known'' doesn't really fly because this has happened so much in hip-hop gucci waka, g-unit. To name a few
the only time ive heard about the shirt was when that n*gga attended a taping of my sweet 16 and cole got invited and found out jay was going to be their.

he has always said his favs are pac and nas

so that whole heros are some as*holes could be directed at nas.

cole has never actually praise jay.

every time they bring him up coles answers are simple.

this song could be directed at any rapper in the game now.
 5 years ago '04        #57
KoKen 5 heat pts OP
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 J.Nathan said:
I was coming in here to say the same exact thing.

On top of that he made references to:

Being crazy - Ye is constantly flipping out in public and going on rants.

"And numb from all the Ménages" - Ye is always talking about ménages in his rhymes.

"And I become lost and I become heartless" - Title of Ye's song

"Just one bi*ch don't feel the same no more" - He's been rumored to fu*k around with multiple chicks in the past and cheated on Amber Rose w/ Kim K.

"And Henny don't really k!ll the pain no more" - The Taylor Swift incident

I could be reaching also, but that's just how it seems to me.
The Kanye theory is interesting as the lines do fit BUT Kanye isn't really by definition a stunting/brag rapper he just released two singles full of content and depth and has a history of being conscious. I think Jay is the only rapper who we cant deny the flows he's got and constantly raps about money, I mean the last thing he released was $100 Bill... Cole could have easily heard that and thought not again...



 selfishpimpin said:
I Always thought this was a Hov dis personally. I feel like he opens the line dissing him.


J.Cole See World


"Yeah I got a chip on my shoulder the size of the Golden Nugget
The industry overlook me for that I be holding grudges
Wouldn’t take a chance on me
Suddenly it's, oh you love it
Let's get a Cole feature that's gon' put you over budget
Picture being broke with no pot to p!ss in
And then suddenly your idols is your competition
Used to be like God to me, slowly losing my religion
As these notes from my composition turn to compositions, then
Put it out and hope the World sing
We sippin’ liquor for the pain that the World bring
We had dreams just to make it up the flag pole
Just to find out that out heroes were some a.ss holes
Y’all dont hear me, maybe you had the World figured out wrong
When these n*ggas go from singing our songs to waiting on you
Bout a year later the same ones be hatin’ on you
Every other record these rappers be faking on you
We singing songs but we know that ain't true
We know you gotta make the people pay you
Cause either you play the game or watch the game play you
And be that broke muthafu*ker talkin bout “I stay true”
That's crazy, never heard that! But like someone said he could be talking about Canibus with the heroes line... I forgot about their little situation for a minute...

 hanis said:
idk, cole just doesn't seem like the type, from numerous interactions with him and doing shows with him, he is one of the few rappers i've been around who actually is a genuinely good guy, and thats coming from someone who is a non rapper so he doesn't need to be fake nice to me, it just seems like he has a pretty good grasp on what to do and not do , and this is just never going to end well for him if somehow it comes out he feels a way about jay, so early into his career, it makes no sense
I see what you're saying and I don't doubt he's a good dude but that doesn't cancel out his competitive MC spirit and values as a man, I mean who expected half the sh*t he said in the intro? He's clearly growing as an artist and being a bit more risky with his sh*t... The fact that he's so nice surely means he would clash with someone like Jay Z who's notorious for being an as*hole...
Don't get me wrong I think it's a shock if he IS indeed taking shots and I think it's a bad move too but n*ggas get emotional and air it out in their songs. Look at beanie sigel who when he came out with all the allegations against Jay, he mentioned that he was telling us all along in his bars at the time and everything you said about Jay putting Cole on applies to Beans too
 5 years ago '07        #58
MOTTAFOOKAH 4 heat pts
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The ye theory is definetely interesting. But it would stick more if Kanye ACTUALLY COULD RAP ANYMORE. All y'all Kanye stans have to atleast admit that the n*gga will NEVER do anything better than college dropout as far as lyrical content is concerned. Cole's lyrics are pretty general on this song he could be talking about pretty much every new mainstream rapper now.
 5 years ago '04        #59
Magnificent Phoenix|m 13 heat pts13
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 SpazzOut said:
"Beyoncé told me that she wanna cop the new Bugatti
That sh*t is more than what I'm worth I think she knew it probably
Well this is awkward, wanna know what else is really awkward?
When n*ggas buy rings for bi*ches I had flings with Im praying I don't see em at the Oscars"
 BLUE JACK$ON said:

[pic - click to view]

MY n*gga!

fu*k Gay-Z, fu*k Puffy, and fu*k these hoes while you can! lol
 5 years ago '04        #60
psylence2k 58 heat pts58
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 Agentzer0oo0 said:
Wouldn't he be talking about Canibus then?
Why would it be about Canibus ?? I'm sure Jay was one of his "idols" too, after Pac, Nas, and Em.

 hanis said:
yeah thats all well and good, but when your 'idol' allowed you to provide for yourself and your family for the rest of your life (in the event that he actually has half a brain and has made some decent investments, along with the money he is going to make in the next 4 to 5 years) why would you even think about sh*tting on them. jay could walk up to him everyday and call him a fu*kboy and he shouldn't feel any sort of way, that man gave him the opportunity to be a somebody, and yes he took that opportunity and did something with it, and he deserves credit for that, but again, cole is nowhere in life without jay giving him the midas touch, we all know this, this is how the game works, you never bite the hand that feeds you, unless you are some type of ungrateful person, which cole doesn't seem to be at all.

and to be honest, from all the stories you hear about jay and how he moves and how he is in person, i doubt he really ever talks to him, nor pays attention enough to him for cole to be like "fu*k this guy he treats me like sh*t, i'm gonna throw shot after shot at him on my songs", it just doesn't add up, you guys are really trying to create something out of nothing, he could be talking about a bunch of different people, sh*t, he could be throwing some shots at canibus in some of those lines, as cole has said himself that 'bus was his favorite rapper for a really long time

I think you're rationalizing what Cole would do based on what you feel you would do if you were in his shoes. You can't always expect someone to act rationally when people consciously do irrational things every day. How many times have you heard someone say " Man , Why did he do that shyt ?? " , On top of that how many rappers have you seen bite the hand that fed them ?? There's rappers out there that got dropped/shelved because they acted up and fell out with someone over them. One of the most commonly a.ssociated traits with artists is Ego, damn near every artist has a big one and the greater the talent usually the bigger the ego.

Jay also has a reputation for rubbing people the wrong way and you gotta understand anyone who can work hard enough to get to the position Cole is in has to have an ego and pride. His outward appearance and initial demeanor is that of a "clean cut good boy" but from interviews you can tell he's very strong minded and has pride and ego and can let his emotions get the best of him like any other rapper. I mean he fist fought someone over a Canibus debate as well as talked shyt about Nas when he was angry.

I remember in an interview when Cole talked about Jay rejecting his first choice for a single, and Jay tried to explain to him what he should do and Cole said he didn't even try to listen to him. He also admitted to throwing a fit and saying some disrespectful things about Nas when he heard Nas didn't like his song.

I dont think you need to go in depth and give us an elaborate explanation on why you think Cole wouldn't do that. Everyone knows Jay is Cole's boss and everyone knows Jay is a powerful guy in the industry. This isn't something that anybody is unaware of. It's probably everyone's first initial reaction like " Jay-Z ?? Nah man Cole wouldn't do that ". People who are broke as phuck living check to check flip out on their bosses and get fired everyday. Cole isn't in as precarious a situation. You can argue that Jay would try to blackball him, but he's two albums in and established , he has opportunities available if him and Jay ever split.

You also got to realize that Cole isn't blatantly going at Jay's head, We all know Cole is a very slick and witty individual. Certain artist knows that they can make a subliminal so slick and subtle that a small group of people will catch it and the other portion will say " Man you're reaching" , Cole is a young guy that grew up on message boards so he knows this is what commonly happens. Plus when you look at his whole body of work you see Cole is a guy that prides himself on concepts, metaphors, hidden meanings, subliminals, and so forth.

He also has stated heavy admiration for his favorite artist (Nas, Pac, EM) these three represent a totally different thing then JAy, and usually alot of their die hard fans HATE Jay because alot of times we've seen if you feel strongly about what those three represent you often dont care as much for what Jay represents post Black Album especially in 2013.

At the end of the day I'm not saying Cole is definitely coming for Jay's head, what I'm saying is that I simply dont think you can rule it out simply because Jay is his boss. I'm not siding with certainty , Im siding with the possibility. Even if Cole wasn't specifically thinking " Imma write this track against Jay" I think alot of the feelings and sentiments he got about the "Rich n*ggaz" topic was inspired either consciously or subconsciously by Jay because everyone on here knows Jay is the number one poster boy when it comes to rappers who people feel have fell off and constantly talk about material wealth these days. Everybody on here is aware of that. The shoe fits Jay perfectly moreso than any other rapper to the point where it's hard to write a song with those type of feelings without Jay crossing your mind. Then you take into consideration how much Cole talks about how he hates the industry and how it changes people and is money driven. The great thing about artists is that you can piece together who they truly are even if they dont say it outright.

Again I'm not saying anything is definite, but it could be a possibility. I'm sure Cole by now has realized like every other artist in the game that JAy didn't sign him because he liked him as a person, he signed him as a worker to bring him a profit like every other label boss. Artists always go through a honey moon stage with their bosses like " Man he really looked out for me so I can eat" then they realize they dont really care whether you eat, they want to make sure you can help them eat, whether that's in a big or small way. History has shown us people who have crossed and betrayed people who were even more directly a.ssociated with their well being. All I'm saying is that simply you cant use that to rule it out.


Last edited by psylence2k; 06-10-2013 at 11:07 AM..
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