Can Tupac be catergorized with Martin Luther King or Malcom X

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 5 years ago '12        #81
Thugocracy 8 heat pts
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I would say he could be compared to Malcolm, given his propensity for violent rhetoric and the street sh*t he was involved in.

You gotta think that, while Malcolm always talked about violently resisting the oppression of the white supremacist system, Tupac actually shot two cops who were beating another black man.

Pac didn't really live long enough to demonstrate his full potential, unfortunately. He could have ended up being a revered black revolutionary figurehead, or he could have ended up being a washed up rapper talking about hustling or gang banging. We'll never know. But what we do know is that, while he was alive, he made a social and political impact that is virtually unheard of in regards to rappers, which is part of the reason why so many people are quick to dismiss the idea of categorizing him with Malcolm and Martin. We shouldn't make Malcolm and Martin out to be saints, they were humans just like Pac, and all the hero worship obscures the actual flaws that they had and makes young people think it's impossible to have the impact they did because they aren't perfect.
 5 years ago '04        #82
psylence2k 58 heat pts58
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 majestic75 said:
He did absolutely nothing to help the black community and contradicted himself constantly (ie. "I Get Around" and "Keep Your Head Up").

Tupac was an intelligent person but doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as MLK or Malcolm. Neither of them were driven by greed and Pac literally admitted several times that half the stuff that flies out of his mouth is done for profit and it's evident in the contradictions in his music and behavior.

He was smart enough to understand the plight of the black community and intelligent enough to articulate it through song and interviews, but he did nothing to uplift it. He was all about himself. Period.
How exactly is saying on one song " I like to have s3x with women" contradicting another song saying " stay positive ladies " ??

and out of songs like "Keep Ya Head Up" , " Dear Mama" , " Brenda's Got a Baby" , etc. and the positive messages in those songs that millions of fans actually listened to and fell in love with you can honestly say he did NOTHING for his community ??

Out of all the good deeds he did without attempting to draw publicity ( taking that little cancer patient to a ball game and naming his publishing company after him, taking that girl to prom and paying for her dress, standing up for that guy who was getting a.ssaulted by off duty cops, etc)

you can honestly sit there and say he was all about himself ??
 5 years ago '12        #83
Thugocracy 8 heat pts
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 psylence2k said:
How exactly is saying on one song " I like to have s3x with women" contradicting another song saying " stay positive ladies " ??

and out of songs like "Keep Ya Head Up" , " Dear Mama" , " Brenda's Got a Baby" , etc. and the positive messages in those songs that millions of fans actually listened to and fell in love with you can honestly say he did NOTHING for his community ??

Out of all the good deeds he did without attempting to draw publicity ( taking that little cancer patient to a ball game and naming his publishing company after him, taking that girl to prom and paying for her dress, standing up for that guy who was getting a.ssaulted by off duty cops, etc)

you can honestly sit there and say he was all about himself ??
The problem is that people don't take rappers seriously no matter what they do. People are so quick to point out the flaws and contradictions in Pac while deifying Martin and Malcolm. It's ridiculous. Martin actually did everything that Pac rapped about in "I Get Around" yet people never want to talk about that. Malcolm actually lived the "Thug Life" yet he is still revered as an important black political figure. It's ridiculous to make saints out of one generation's figureheads and then to demonize those of the next generation when they all were humans who, despite their obvious flaws, stood for something greater than themselves.
 5 years ago '11        #84
GangGreen227 42 heat pts42
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stans will be stans
 5 years ago '07        #85
Jayceon 492 heat pts492
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no, his accomplishments pale in comparison.

if mlk are number 1 and 2. pac is outside the top 10. maybe 20. it's about being organized and organizing people.
 5 years ago '04        #86
slimyellow 4 heat pts
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i wanted to engage in this convo..but im not a huge pac fan and for n*ggas to be trying to put him in the category with mlk and x has me baffled.
 5 years ago '04        #87
Kaliz ChamP 4 heat pts
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I'm to lazy to grab the laptop and make points. But I'll do y'all a solid. since i was able to engage in higher learning, I'll be open to points some of y'all are making in regards to Tupac. Yes, he made timeless classics like "keep your head up, dear mama, Brenda gotta baby, looking in my rearview" he also duped knowledge via interviews and public speaking events. i can honestly say, his intentions were there but he wasn't financially stable enough to stop glorifying the negatives in the community and put forth his full efforts in uplifting his community. Yall comparing him to X, but X was able to write chapters 10-20 whereas Pacs book stopped at chapter 8. His potential is nothing more but speculation. Sort of like Penny or better yet,Bias. but his death was the results of crossing entertainment with gangster sh*t. Members of Blood aka M.O.B were beefing with South Side Crips. Forget about BadBoy and death Row, that was some hood sh*t. So pretty much, you live that gang sh*t, you're a target. Don't care how you spin it. Pac kicked it with M.ob and on some of his unreleased music, you can key on some of the blood talk he was putting out there. Anyways, him and a lot of bloods got k!lled in 96 over that beef between them two sets. and you can say Badboy was paying Crips to fu*k with with members of death row but pac made himself a victim when he jumped ole boy from S.S.C
 5 years ago '12        #88
Dee352 170 heat pts170
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 aka ReeSe said:
And Jay Stans are worst than worst.
 5 years ago '04        #89
psylence2k 58 heat pts58
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 majestic75 said:
They're all songs that he profited from, and the messages in his music varies from song to song so all he was really doing was catering to different demographics to maximize profit.

Yes Malcolm was on the wrong side of the law at one point, but when he became an important figure in his community he didn't glorify or sensationalize "thug life" to impressionable youth that were experiencing the same quest for identity that he was at one point in his life. For every positive message in his music, there was an irresponsible one.

Irresponsible in the sense that everyone that comes from that background isn't equipped to understand and handle it the way he was. To a confused, angry teenager "Thug Life" can easily be taken the wrong way and foster the kind of hatred that grows into the violent, amoral mentality that so many kids fall victim to at that age.

To be that powerful a figure to your generation and send mixed messages is very irresponsible. He didn't care though because he was getting paid. Sure he took time out to do a good deed once in a while but he never did anything of any real significance. How many youth centers did he build? How many neighborhoods did he visit and really speak? Was he investing in black business or pissing away thousands of dollars a night at clubs with Suge, running around in Armani suits?

I don't hate the guy nor do I think he was a generally bad person. To mention in his name in the same sentence as people who died for what they believed in, who are part of the reason that I'm able to live the life I live, is wrong.

WTF did Tupac die for? Not us...

So just because he profited from his work it automatically negates the significance of the positive message some of it carried ?? That's like saying a preacher's sermon is automatically insincere and meaningless because he's getting paid off it.

IMO Most if not all of his messages never really directly contradicted, I asked you to give me an example of how " I get around " contradicts " Keep ya head up". I dont think anyone who listened to both tracks could say the messages directly contradicted or they couldn't coexist.

I think you make some pretty huge a.ssumptions about his intentions that are for the most part if not entirely baseless. People in general are flawed and gravitate towards multiple interests, emotions, and perspectives that may not be closely a.ssociated with each other. Pac's music reflected that so really dont buy the whole " the versatility in his music was contrived for the main sole purpose of generating profit". So many people gravitated towards Pac music because it was a realistic reflection of the human spirit in it's rawest form including its' flaws. I dont think something that essentially articulated a microcosm of humanity in its' most honest form can be so easily written off as solely a marketing plan especially with no substantial evidence of that being his initial intention.

Like I said, I really dont think his messages contradicted or at least not unjustifiably. Maybe you would say his messages for peace and uniting contradicted the hostility he took against who he believed to be offenders. To me that's no different than a country wanting peace but establishing a military force and utilizing it to counter those who would pose a threat to their safety, which pretty much every country in the world does. If a country goes to war does that mean they're automatically contradicting their desire for peace ?? Like I said Pac's range of views and approaches on multiple topics were an organic representation of human nature. How can you fault him for that ??

We might as well say throw Martin Luther King's legacy down the drain since he cheated on his wife. Since he was actually living a stronger contrast between the respect and disrespecting of a woman than Pac supposedly rapped about between " I get around" and " keep ya head up ".

You got to also understand that Pac was the post-crack epidemic activist. A totally different set of problems and mindset existed in the hood after the 80's. It wasn't the same environment that MLK and Malcolm grew up in and serviced. That's why I dont think you can directly compare their approaches since they existed in different times and they spoke to a different young black youth that had a totally different mindset and set of influences. I think Pac understood that very well. Pac knew he couldn't use the same approach that MLK and Malcolm took because times had changed in multiple aspects and that the youth who were no longer unified from oppression were now divided from crack and gang violence. The old school approach would no longer work for a generation that had a " fu*k U, Pay Me" mentality. Pac wasn't mainly focusing on trying to save those who already were wise enough to know what it was. He was going in to save the self destructive and lost children in the hood who cared more about selling crack and banging than they did about learning about MLK.

As far as your last paragraph on what he was doing in the community, I think you need to do some more research, Pac visited many black schools and communities. As well as gave money to many black organizations and civil rights groups. Here are some videos:


[video - click to view]



[video - click to view]


Another video on the explanation of the Thug Life and the organizing he was doing on the streets to end violence and bring black communities together


[video - click to view]



How can you say this man was just out for money, didn't have any positive messages, and didn't do anything for the community ??


Last edited by psylence2k; 03-17-2013 at 06:12 PM..
 03-17-2013, 06:46 PM         #90
Denise4975 
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 s7venwords said:
YES!!!!!!

Pac would've been a politician if he lived, or he would of died trying as that was his ambition, he said in his last interview he gave.




Really? Really?

I have an ambition to fu*k Hallie Berry but that doesn't mean it is going to happen.
 5 years ago '04        #91
HotBYoungTurk 13 heat pts13
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What did Pac do for the black community?

Pac's Career = 15% positive music / 85% thug this, thug that, IDGAF about you
 5 years ago '12        #92
thepoeticgoblin 
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People are quick to forget that Pac died at 25. How much had MLK and Malcolm accomplished by that age?

With that said, no. Pac shouldn't be categorized with them, but we will never know what might have happened had he lived to see 50.
 5 years ago '12        #93
Thugocracy 8 heat pts
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 psylence2k said:
You got to also understand that Pac was the post-crack epidemic activist. A totally different set of problems and mindset existed in the hood after the 80's. It wasn't the same environment that MLK and Malcolm grew up in and serviced.
People fail to understand the significance of this reality. Pac grew up in the ruins of black America, he became politicized in the aftermath of Cointelpro and the counterrevolution against the radical movements of the previous decades. He was a young adolescent at the height of the crack epidemic. How can you expect someone who was trying to make change at the very peak of violence in America's ghettos to deliver his message in the same way that someone did decades earlier?


This is what Pac meant by a rose growing from concrete, that it is absurd to expect someone who grows up in a broken environment to not carry some of those faults with him.

How do you think Malcolm would have turned up if he was running around the streets hustling during the huge expansion of the prison industry in the 80s and 90s? The Malcolms of the 90s never came home, they received enhanced sentences or got violated by their POs for standing on their corner with their old friends.

Look at the people who literally modeled themselves after Martin and Malcolm. What has Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson really managed to do in comparison to what their predecessors did? The past 4 decades of counterrevolution in our communities have made the work that Malcolm and Martin did 10 times harder.
 03-18-2013, 12:26 PM         #94
bigree61 
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White people can not comment on this subject

Yes but obviously on a smaller scale


He was the voice of the voiceless like Dr.King and brother Malcolm


When you are able to have millions of people follow you then you are a threat
That's why he was a.ssanaited
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