"If Snoop Were Saying Something, That Negro Would Be Dangerous"

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 5 years ago '04        #21
justinjones 307 heat pts307
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the difference between pac and most others that try to do that is that pac can get emotion out of people. a lot of other rapper sound like a damn lecture.

i'm not the biggest pac fan but i give him credit for being able to do that
 5 years ago '04        #22
psylence2k 58 heat pts58
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 Bravo Golf said:
I would say Pac did something inspiring for the community, but it gets overshadowed because for every positive thing he did, he negated it with something negative. You can't deny that he had the influence to inspire positively when he chose to do so. Remember "Brenda's Got a Baby," "Dear Mama," "Keep Ya Head Up," "So Many Tears," and "Changes" just to name a few? Now imagine if "How Do U Want It," "I Get Around," and his public persona when he signed to death Row never existed. You mean to tell me he wouldn't be a positively influential artist?
The only reason Pac got as big as he got was because he did the negative and had that balance.
Nobody wants a holier than thou type figure trying to preach to them. That's why most positive rappers fail.

Pac was one of the most relate-able rappers of all time, you gotta make people feel like they can kick it with you before they start to listen to you.

As far as conscious music goes, at the end of the day music is still music, that shyt has to sound good regardless of the message. Most conscious positive rap isn't melodically and rhythmically as good as the "ratchet" rap. It's all about catching someone's "subconscious" ear with a dope beat and rhythm then you can sneak in the jewels.

As far as the label conspiracy to purposely feed us ratchet rap, I dunno, it might be true but at the end of the day you dont even see positive or conscious white artists at the top you got shyt like Gaga, Kesha, and Katy Perry.

Back in the day you had conscious artists from both sides like Dylan and Pac. Lennon and Marley.

I think it's just a changing of the times type thing.
 03-14-2013, 10:54 AM         #23
ManWithoutFear! 
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 240ka said:
Will you n*ggas stop mentioning pacs angry and confused a.ss. How old are y'all bc y'all act like that n*gga did something for our community when he didn't
Goddamn this site is ridiculous
 5 years ago '12        #24
Bravo Golf 11 heat pts11 OP
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 psylence2k said:
The only reason Pac got as big as he got was because he did the negative and had that balance.
Nobody wants a holier than thou type figure trying to preach to them. That's why most positive rappers fail.

Pac was one of the most relate-able rappers of all time, you gotta make people feel like they can kick it with you before they start to listen to you.

As far as conscious music goes, at the end of the day music is still music, that shyt has to sound good regardless of the message. Most conscious positive rap isn't melodically and rhythmically as good as the "ratchet" rap. It's all about catching someone's "subconscious" ear with a dope beat and rhythm then you can sneak in the jewels.

As far as the label conspiracy to purposely feed us ratchet rap, I dunno, it might be true but at the end of the day you dont even see positive or conscious white artists at the top you got shyt like Gaga, Kesha, and Katy Perry.

Back in the day you had conscious artists from both sides like Dylan and Pac. Lennon and Marley.

I think it's just a changing of the times type thing.
I can agree with that.
 03-14-2013, 11:37 AM         #25
A6249CF 
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 nonzero said:
Thats the exact reason they put bullets in Pacs a.ss and let the message ring clear for the rest of these people - shuck, shive, shoot and drive by, never uplift cos it will be the end of your sh*t.
best post itt
 5 years ago '04        #26
Veno da Don 23 heat pts23
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Only if the urban condition had been ideal pre the hip-hop era could I give full credence to feeling as if the culture has some how been responsible for the urban plight. It does play a role, but I don't believe it creates k!llers and most kids nowadays don't even listen to mainstream radio, they choose what they want to listen it its not as if they are being totally forced to participate in a certain branch of hip hop culture over another because it is not all bad.
 5 years ago '12        #27
Bravo Golf 11 heat pts11 OP
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 Veno da Don said:
Only if the urban condition had been ideal pre the hip-hop era could I give full credence to feeling as if the culture has some how been responsible for the urban plight. It does play a role, but I don't believe it creates k!llers and most kids nowadays don't even listen to mainstream radio, they choose what they want to listen it its not as if they are being totally forced to participate in a certain branch of hip hop culture over another because it is not all bad.
This is true.
 5 years ago '04        #28
Veno da Don 23 heat pts23
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I read what a lot of you are saying. But does the music create the conditions or do the conditions create the music? There are less people as a whole who are invested in "causes" and more invested in recreation, therefore the music reflects. Go back and listen to some late 60s early 70s music it will contain a lot of protests and passion as did the people of that time. This current generation has other preoccupations hence the Chief Keef fascination.
 5 years ago '04        #29
Veno da Don 23 heat pts23
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 Matt504 said:
to be honest, we buy whatever they sell us. If these corporations wanted to flood the market with positive rappers, we'd eventually begin to gravitate towards the positive music.

these people don't sit around board room meetings trying to determine what the consumer wants in an artist, they give you the artist, give the artist the resources to captivate your short attention span, (money, foreign cars, foreign clothes), put these guys in videos where they can flaunt their unrealistic lifestyles before the eyes of those who have nothing.

corps don't give a fu*k about you, they know you n*ggas better than you know yourselves. whatever they want you to support is where they focus their advertising dollars.

if the corps wanted to make the industry positive, they harness the means and resources to move the industry in that direction, but they'd much rather promote the filthiest, most destructive, murdering, misogynist, hate filled music possible, under the guise of it being "real".


n*ggas wake up in multi-million dollar mansions in SECURE and SAFE communities, go downstairs two floors into the built in home studio, and make music about n*ggas shooting each other.



but nah, let me stop all this "hating"

I feel what you're saying but lets be real here if we are speaking on the motives of the corporate types, they don't care if you're a "n*gga" or if your face is white like a powdered donut, you belong to a market in their eyes and they have a product to sell you if its Lil Wayne talking about eating pus*y on a watered down recycled hip hop track or its Bridget Mendler (sp) on a cotton candy pop song aimed at 5-15 year old girls (white, black, brown...) race is used as a distraction but they target us ALL not to deliver a positive message unless that positive message stands to increase their bottomline.
 5 years ago '12        #30
The Consultant 367 heat pts367
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 Nyuzi said:
It would fall on the listener to decide what they want music to do for them. Most people look to music for emotional escape - not intellectual enlightenment or traditional learning. That's why the club music is so popular or why Adele and Taylor Swift can sell so many records about breakups and sad sh*t. Artists like Immortal Technique, Lupe Fiasco, Truth Universal, or K-Rino do the educational music but their aesthetics don't create enough emotional escape to warrant a good amount of attention.

You have to find the balance between creating emotional response from the beat/delivery as well as educating positively in one way or another through lyrics. This is apparently hard to do.


This song finds the balance. It delves into the topic of personal expression and the misconceptions surrounding the artists' demographic. Society has painted them one way without giving them the opportunity to explain themselves fully.

This song does it as well. They all shed light on important social topics that politicians and the masses have been misunderstanding for years. The artists not only discuss those topics but allow their angry emotions to show which teaches the listener that they are passionate about what they are speaking on so it must be vital. All of this is done on a dark, groovy beat that makes the listener feel like something is wrong or bad consequenes can result from ignorance. It's like a warning.


True words spoken right there.

And why people still blaming corporations... If you don't buy the sh1t they won't promote it so heavily.
Consumers have the power, some of yall don't know much.
You stop buying, they will eventually stop selling..but I don't see that happening.
 5 years ago '05        #31
4REAL 3 heat pts
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 Veno da Don said:
Only if the urban condition had been ideal pre the hip-hop era could I give full credence to feeling as if the culture has some how been responsible for the urban plight. It does play a role, but I don't believe it creates k!llers and most kids nowadays don't even listen to mainstream radio, they choose what they want to listen it its not as if they are being totally forced to participate in a certain branch of hip hop culture over another because it is not all bad.
It doesn't matter. There is no escaping what is popular. Popularity and trends can't be avoided. A person that tries their best to listen to underground hip hop or independent will still somehow know of a popular Drake or Wayne song.
 5 years ago '08        #32
I_make_beatz 19 heat pts19
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 Matt504 said:
to be honest, we buy whatever they sell us. If these corporations wanted to flood the market with positive rappers, we'd eventually begin to gravitate towards the positive music.

these people don't sit around board room meetings trying to determine what the consumer wants in an artist, they give you the artist, give the artist the resources to captivate your short attention span, (money, foreign cars, foreign clothes), put these guys in videos where they can flaunt their unrealistic lifestyles before the eyes of those who have nothing.

corps don't give a fu*k about you, they know you n*ggas better than you know yourselves. whatever they want you to support is where they focus their advertising dollars.

if the corps wanted to make the industry positive, they harness the means and resources to move the industry in that direction, but they'd much rather promote the filthiest, most destructive, murdering, misogynist, hate filled music possible, under the guise of it being "real".


n*ggas wake up in multi-million dollar mansions in SECURE and SAFE communities, go downstairs two floors into the built in home studio, and make music about n*ggas shooting each other.



but nah, let me stop all this "hating"

[pic - click to view]

 5 years ago '08        #33
I_make_beatz 19 heat pts19
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 GameTheory said:
THE PROBLEM is getting positive music to sound good.

Its still entertainment from day one.

Reggae has no problem doing this because it sounds SO fu*kING GOOD.

Rap music that does positive music RARELY sounds like anything you'd want to hear more than once so above and beyond message, if its not grabbing ears, we don't want to hear it.

You can't neglect that aspect of the music.
This is true too, that's why most christian rap music sucks, not to mention the fact they constantly bite mainstream rap styles and trends in their music.
 5 years ago '12        #34
Thugocracy 8 heat pts
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The brilliance of the music industry is its ability to determine what the next trend will be, aggressively market it to people, and then have people turn around and say that they are feeling the product simply because it "sounds good". Why is it that what "sounded good" in rap now is so different than what "sounded good" a couple years ago? Why is it that what "sounds good" in America is not what "sounds good" in Russia or China? Most people's taste in music (and in sh*t they consume in general) is largely influenced by the forces that control or influence the media in that part of the world.

You have to understand this to understand why more politically oriented rap isn't going to take over the airwaves anytime soon. Why would Universal or Clear Channel want to support someone talking negatively about them? Why would wealthy and powerful people support someone encouraging people to challenge their wealth and power? The only time this happens is when those companies feel that it is worth the risk because the artist is so incredibly marketable that the profit they will make is more valuable than the possible popular backlash against people like them.

I don't agree with the "positive music doesn't sound good" sh*t at all. Until the recent 65 to 75 BPM electronic-sounding "trap" beat takeover, most "positive" rap sounded very similar to what was popular at the time. Premier produced Jeru's albums, for instance. The Blackstar album sounded amazing when it first dropped. Public Enemy sounded like good NY hip-hop did in the early 90s. Invincible's album sounded like most Detroit hip-hop from a couple years ago. Am I really supposed to believe that somehow a song having some thoughtful lyrical content makes it musically unlistenable?

It seems like in the past 10-15 years record companies have just not wanted to risk promoting sh*t that has much of a cerebral element at all. It's not only that the music is less political, the subject matter tends to be more simpleminded altogether. This may have something to do with the fact that everything in the mass media is now geared toward encouraging short attention spans and instant gratification.
 5 years ago '12        #35
Thugocracy 8 heat pts
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Mainstream rap has reached a critical mass of ignorance that is basically a giant feedback loop. No one will buy political rap because the record companies don't promote it, but the companies don't promote it because no one will buy it. The fact is that such a large volume of stupid sh*t has been promoted that the entire cultural landscape has changed to the point where now what is "good" is going to be measured against the music that is currently saturating the market. It's gonna be hard for anything radically different to break into the mainstream in this environment.

That's why people who want to hear more intelligent or politically/socially oriented music need to come together to help develop the independent hip-hop movement because the majors aren't gonna do sh*t for you right now...
 5 years ago '08        #36
I_make_beatz 19 heat pts19
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 Thugocracy said:
The brilliance of the music industry is its ability to determine what the next trend will be, aggressively market it to people, and then have people turn around and say that they are feeling the product simply because it "sounds good". Why is it that what "sounded good" in rap now is so different than what "sounded good" a couple years ago? Why is it that what "sounds good" in America is not what "sounds good" in Russia or China? Most people's taste in music (and in sh*t they consume in general) is largely influenced by the forces that control or influence the media in that part of the world.

You have to understand this to understand why more politically oriented rap isn't going to take over the airwaves anytime soon. Why would Universal or Clear Channel want to support someone talking negatively about them? Why would wealthy and powerful people support someone encouraging people to challenge their wealth and power? The only time this happens is when those companies feel that it is worth the risk because the artist is so incredibly marketable that the profit they will make is more valuable than the possible popular backlash against people like them.

I don't agree with the "positive music doesn't sound good" sh*t at all. Until the recent 65 to 75 BPM electronic-sounding "trap" beat takeover, most "positive" rap sounded very similar to what was popular at the time. Premier produced Jeru's albums, for instance. The Blackstar album sounded amazing when it first dropped. Public Enemy sounded like good NY hip-hop did in the early 90s. Invincible's album sounded like most Detroit hip-hop from a couple years ago. Am I really supposed to believe that somehow a song having some thoughtful lyrical content makes it musically unlistenable?

It seems like in the past 10-15 years record companies have just not wanted to risk promoting sh*t that has much of a cerebral element at all. It's not only that the music is less political, the subject matter tends to be more simpleminded altogether. This may have something to do with the fact that everything in the mass media is now geared toward encouraging short attention spans and instant gratification.
I want to commend everybody's posts in this thread, I'm learning something here
 5 years ago '05        #37
PCP MC 2 heat pts
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The major, major, major issue here to me is the effects of long-term popular exposure to the music industry practices and adoration from fans. You still hear sometimes the positive raps in songs that break a new artist into popularity--take Lupe Fiasco, Kanye West, Little Brother, & (to a small extent) J Cole as examples. In the beginning of their careers each and every one of them had messages of poverty, positivity, social awareness, and those styles in their music.

Now as time has gone by and they've progessed, notice that one of two things happen to a greater or lesser extent: the rapper moves from positive to mainstream styles, or their popularity, sales and fan reactions to their music begin to fade. The reasons for this are different in each artist's case, but, the fact remains that even gaining popularity in this industry for being positive begins to grind the artist down until they are no longer relevant, or they care more about retaining popularity than retaining integrity.
 5 years ago '08        #38
I_make_beatz 19 heat pts19
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I agree with these posts, but luckily, the times are changing. Evidence that music companies' power is waning is the fact that Billboard now counts youtube views into their chart calculations:

"All official videos on YouTube, including user-generated clips that utilize authorized audio, will now factor into how a song’s popularity is determined," YouTube explained.
Now all we have to do is get those fake youtube views taken care of and the road for the next hip-hop star with a message will be ready to blast off.


Last edited by I_make_beatz; 03-14-2013 at 03:21 PM..
 5 years ago '10        #39
Account001 
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 psylence2k said:
The only reason Pac got as big as he got was because he did the negative and had that balance.
Nobody wants a holier than thou type figure trying to preach to them. That's why most positive rappers fail.

Pac was one of the most relate-able rappers of all time, you gotta make people feel like they can kick it with you before they start to listen to you.

As far as conscious music goes, at the end of the day music is still music, that shyt has to sound good regardless of the message. Most conscious positive rap isn't melodically and rhythmically as good as the "ratchet" rap. It's all about catching someone's "subconscious" ear with a dope beat and rhythm then you can sneak in the jewels.

As far as the label conspiracy to purposely feed us ratchet rap, I dunno, it might be true but at the end of the day you dont even see positive or conscious white artists at the top you got shyt like Gaga, Kesha, and Katy Perry.

Back in the day you had conscious artists from both sides like Dylan and Pac. Lennon and Marley.

I think it's just a changing of the times type thing.
Came in to say this...

Lupe and im pretty sure all those other guys over preach. Two well written bars will do more good then a whole album of preaching cause nobody will listen to that album. Also to much preaching "at" people makes them feel bad. Most people dont want to feel guilty when they listen to music. Todays music is giant "enabler"
 5 years ago '12        #40
Bravo Golf 11 heat pts11 OP
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For me, positive music doesn't necessarily have to preach anything. I'm just tired of music in the mainstream glorifying behavior that's self-defeating for a lot of people. And I'm tired of seeing acts portray lifestyles that they aren't really living. All I want to see is return to authenticity when rappers told it like it was. The NWA and Scarface videos on the previous page are good examples of the type of songs I would like to see return to the mainstream.


[video - click to view]


(This is a fan-made video; I don't think Nas ever made an official video for this song, which is a shame.)

This is one of my favorite Nas' songs of all time. Yes, it a song about a gun, but it's not glorifying gun violence at all. It's bringing attention to the gun violence that goes on in city streets. I don't consider this type of song preachy at all.


Last edited by Bravo Golf; 03-14-2013 at 05:35 PM..
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