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Props Slaps
 04-09-2013, 01:04 AM         #241
Infamous B  OP
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 Stillhyphy said:
I wouldn't even count those 3 examples as segregation to be honest. those are 3 different different things blacks use to come together...just like high schools and colleges have black student unions (and asians/hispanics/gays/whatever)..they get together as one and connect with each other. sometimes people just feel more comfortable around their own kind. I feel outta place like hell when im in a all white neighborhood
i agree.

blacks use those to come together, and consequently, come apart from the rest of society.

I can totally get the comfort factor and the fact that you feel out of place in a white neighborhood, which i adressed in one of my previous posts.
 04-09-2013, 01:23 AM         #242
OnlyOriginality  OP
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 Infamous B said:
an educated response. but it is nonetheless a reasoning of limitations based on the way things have been.

your reality starts NOW.

and the only white people i know who have identified themselves as white men/women have been ignorant bigots/racists.

the source of my arguement is essentially that, to identify one's self primarily by his or her skin color, cannot and will not lead to empowerment.
Exactly, I'm not saying because we have the same skin color we should all link up, segregate, and do for ourselves, so let's take that out the equation for a moment. It is culture that defines a people, culture is the only thing that will defeat ignorance and to be defined by another people's culture, is to sacrifice our identity and thus our ability to do for ourselves. Skin color is just an identifier, in terms of of the physical differences of peoples on the planet, culture is the substance. The culture us Africans in America is more European than African, this is why when African immigrants come over it is a culture shock to them, their culture is greatly different than ours and even though we are the same system of white supremacy, many of the societies over there are a stark contrast to our own over here, the same can be said for the Africans in Caribbean.

Could you explain a bit on why the response I gave is limited based on the way things have been.
 04-09-2013, 01:29 AM         #243
OnlyOriginality  OP
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 Infamous B said:
The fact that so many things are still segregated speaks about the current state of the country. Why be a prisoner of history?

Jews went through the holocaust, now they're running hollywood. Why look back?

yeah whites fu*ked the game up, no argument there. what's stopping you from moving on, besides yourself?
The way things are set up in this country, we are not going to be allowed to progress, we aren't even citizens in this country. The only stopping us from preogressing is our contention with our lack of knowledge. Most of our people could care less about empowerment, because they feel there is no need for it. The propaganda they feed us during Black History Month is not them praising our efforts to gain a few civilian rights (we aren't citizens), it is them indoctrinating us to be grateful that we want to integrate with the, desiring that so badly that blood was shed for it. But it wasn't liberation, it was step back, it was re-enslavement.
 04-09-2013, 01:56 AM         #244
Infamous B  OP
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 OnlyOriginality said:
Exactly, I'm not saying because we have the same skin color we should all link up, segregate, and do for ourselves, so let's take that out the equation for a moment. It is culture that defines a people, culture is the only thing that will defeat ignorance and to be defined by another people's culture, is to sacrifice our identity and thus our ability to do for ourselves. Skin color is just an identifier, in terms of of the physical differences of peoples on the planet, culture is the substance. The culture us Africans in America is more European than African, this is why when African immigrants come over it is a culture shock to them, their culture is greatly different than ours and even though we are the same system of white supremacy, many of the societies over there are a stark contrast to our own over here, the same can be said for the Africans in Caribbean.

Could you explain a bit on why the response I gave is limited based on the way things have been.
It is the ego which defines. Nothing in the world holds any significance before the human mind interprets it. Even the concept of culture is man made.

I guess I'm just asking you to take a look at the bigger picture. We seem to be speaking in two different languages. Most people tend to mistake reality for the system of symbols and images we've been initiated to since birth. Quantam physics illustrates this quite well.

I didn't mean that your response itself was limited, it was actually pretty extensive. The limitations within your response were singing the tune of, "the world is like this, things will never change, and we must play our role accordingly". rather than "the world is constantly evolving, change is inevitable, and we can create our own reality".

can the wake of a ship explain it's destination?
 04-09-2013, 02:27 AM         #245
OnlyOriginality  OP
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 Infamous B said:
It is the ego which defines. Nothing in the world holds any significance before the human mind interprets it. Even the concept of culture is man made.

I guess I'm just asking you to take a look at the bigger picture. We seem to be speaking in two different languages. Most people tend to mistake reality for the system of symbols and images we've been initiated to since birth. Quantam physics illustrates this quite well.

I didn't mean that your response itself was limited, it was actually pretty extensive. The limitations within your response were singing the tune of, "the world is like this, things will never change, and we must play our role accordingly". rather than "the world is constantly evolving, change is inevitable, and we can create our own reality".

can the wake of a ship explain it's destination?
I disagree with the statements on bold. Animals have culture, insects even have culture, it may not be as complex as ours but it is there. A black ant and a red ant differ in terms of operation just as the Aztec and Inca cultures differ, culture is the living history of any organism and the history of any organism will shape it's identity, internally and externally. The minds of humanity is complex but it is not sole definer of an object, we may use a tree to communicate (paper) where as a rhino uses the tree to sharpen it's horn, so we do not signify the ways of the world, although we may rule the planet, in terms of control, we will never dominate it.

You seem to have misunderstood what I was saying because I too view change as inevitable. White supremacy, was born to die so it will not always remain. At the moment we are seeing the face of smile and grin while it continues to bite us in the throat, however as time progresses the final goals of that system will be revealed long before it will be enacted. And while we do create our own reality, something I wholeheartedly believe, on an individual basis how much is it influence by the surrounding environment. Bringing quantum physics and metaphysics into the equation, we are all interconnected..so how much of our collective conscious and unconscious originating from a purely original thought, and how much is altered by our physical, mental and spiritual environment?

To answer the question about the wake of a ship, I'll answer with a statement and a question. The wake of a ship is a snapshot of a direction of the journey, after it is created is not etched in the waters forever. Could the wake of a ship change the natural currents of the water?

edit: Read to deep into your last question. Short answer, no it cannot explain the destination.


Last edited by OnlyOriginality; 04-09-2013 at 02:31 AM..
 04-09-2013, 09:39 AM         #246
Infamous B  OP
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 OnlyOriginality said:
I disagree with the statements on bold. Animals have culture, insects even have culture, it may not be as complex as ours but it is there. A black ant and a red ant differ in terms of operation just as the Aztec and Inca cultures differ, culture is the living history of any organism and the history of any organism will shape it's identity, internally and externally. The minds of humanity is complex but it is not sole definer of an object, we may use a tree to communicate (paper) where as a rhino uses the tree to sharpen it's horn, so we do not signify the ways of the world, although we may rule the planet, in terms of control, we will never dominate it.

You seem to have misunderstood what I was saying because I too view change as inevitable. White supremacy, was born to die so it will not always remain. At the moment we are seeing the face of smile and grin while it continues to bite us in the throat, however as time progresses the final goals of that system will be revealed long before it will be enacted. And while we do create our own reality, something I wholeheartedly believe, on an individual basis how much is it influence by the surrounding environment. Bringing quantum physics and metaphysics into the equation, we are all interconnected..so how much of our collective conscious and unconscious originating from a purely original thought, and how much is altered by our physical, mental and spiritual environment?

To answer the question about the wake of a ship, I'll answer with a statement and a question. The wake of a ship is a snapshot of a direction of the journey, after it is created is not etched in the waters forever. Could the wake of a ship change the natural currents of the water?

edit: Read to deep into your last question. Short answer, no it cannot explain the destination.
Culture is defined by the American Heritage dictionary thusly:

The totality of socially transmitted behavior patterns, arts, beliefs, institutions, and all other products of human work and thought.
You'll get no argument from me when you say living organisms have certain differences. Yes, a fire ant differs from a carpenter ant. Blacks have subtle biological differences from other races, but still have all the same "parts". Nonetheless, when you speak about how these groups "operate", I must ask if you believe that has more to do with a personal upbringing and conditioning, or simply their dna? Every now and then, we hear these crazy stories about a human who is raised by a pack of wolves, and consequently is thoroughly convinced he is one. In fact, he plays the role extremely well.

I acknowledge the differences we all have. What I'm asking is why there needs to be boundaries. It relates to when I asked you what race you would consider someone who is half black and half white. Is there a specific shade that draws the line? Can you tell precisely where your neck ends and your head begins? At exactly which point does a person go from being sober to drunk? These boundaries are imaginary lines used to give people a false sense of control, through words, which are nothing more that symbols but are often confused with reality itself.

There's a phenomenon that illustrates this sort of philosophy which psychologists call the oceanic feeling.


Last edited by Infamous B; 04-09-2013 at 09:42 AM..
 5 years ago '12        #247
dman 4901 38 heat pts38
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the reason i say we blacks in america lost is because we did as a collective unit

we lost like a motherfu-ker



an i dont really see us getting back on our feet by the time the ref counts to 10...


these are a few reasons i feel we lost.


-we blacks in america dont really have that connection to africa
we make fun of africa an dont know anything bout our past.
-we dont own anything of value
-we k!ll each other more than the qoute on qoute white man
-we dont value education
-we are so divide with everything
-we let these drug dealers,rappers,athletes,actors an other entertainers represent us worldwide an to add insult to injury they dont/cant help there own people
-black men hate/dont respect black women an vice versa
-we fail our children an we end up raising monster an crazy people
-worldstar/facebook/twitter an other social media outlets make us look like some str8 animals
-the family is totally fu-k up i dont even gotta break that down men an women both at fault


i could go on for pages but those are just a few.i also understand blacks arent the only ones that struggle but sometimes i just say to myself when is this sh-t gonna end .
Sometimes i sit an marvel at the spanish/mexican an arab people.My hood used to be all black but its still mostly black but every dam store is arab or spanish/mexcan owned,that sh-t sometimes makes me sad like were are all the black owned stores.


im just tired of caring honestly an i needed to do some venting



Last edited by dman 4901; 04-10-2013 at 08:47 AM..
 04-10-2013, 08:52 AM         #248
Rhyme n Tekniq  OP
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i feel you brotha', i been gave up on my own race for a loooong a.ss time now.

too far gone
 04-10-2013, 10:07 AM         #249
dOwnByLaw310  OP
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So called "African Americans" in America are not "African" or originated from there- Zondervan's Bible Dictionary "Ham, the youngest son of Noah, born probably about 96 years before the Flood and one of eight persons to live through the flood. He became the progenitor of the dark races-not the Negroes, but the Egyptians, Ethiopians, Libyans and Canaanites."

we dont own anything of value-Depends on what you consider "valuable" but from an economic standpoint, yep.

The biggest "killer" in the black community-

we dont value education- Who is in charge of the curriculum in the American school system? What are they teaching? Nothing about your TRUE history

we are so divide with everything- By design

we let these drug dealers(Who's the REAL drug dealers?),rappers,athletes,actors an other entertainers (Who pays these people and are able to bombard the different mediums of media with these images?) represent us worldwide an to add insult to injury they dont/cant help there own people (By design)

black men hate/dont respect black women an vice versa (I don't, I only deal with the nation but it's major problem)

we fail our children an we end up raising monster an crazy people ( Who's the REAL monsters and crazy people?)

worldstar/facebook/twitter an other social media outlets make us look like some str8 animals- That's it purpose but do you read and see some of the hateful, ANIMALISTIC, savage like comments and actions by the other nations?

the family is totally fu-k up i dont even gotta break that down men an women both at fault- No order in the household (1. The Most High 2. Man 3. Woman 4. Children 5. Pets ) sh*t is all mixed up!

You comin off like a self-hater but dont let this world make you crazy.I feel you but these problems go WAAAYYY deeper than what's on the surface.

It all starts with comin back to the laws, statues and commandments of the Most High...
 5 years ago '06        #250
Jaguar34 4 heat pts
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I don't see how it's a good thing that we recognize that our race too far gone for healing.


Anybody who truly believes that sh*t just look at a healthy black baby. Are they k!lling anyone? Are they naturally destroying their environment? No. Nobody is naturally born to be that fu*ked up. It's the structure that they're born into that determines the path most of the people of that generation are born into.

Crack ruined the lives and families of an entire generation of people ["Crack Babies": born 1986-1992] and they led most of the children that grew up in that madness to be some pretty fu*ked up parents themselves.

We're simply products of our environment, and given our history in America, it's pretty fu*ked up. Blacks have never held full control of any resource during their time in America. But it could all change within one generation. My Pops was born in the 50s and her grandchildren were born in the 90s, live in the same house she grew up in, and they don't think racism is a big deal.

Once we start to get dropped from public a.ssistance (probably about 5-10 years) we'll start to see some real change, both good and bad among black americans. Right now the young generation is being indoctrined into beliveing abortion and homos3xuality are the norm and they'll have a whole other set of problems in the coming years, including the enemy's ultimate goal....a negative birth rate.

Long story short, just because it's hard doesn't mean its impossible.


Last edited by Jaguar34; 04-10-2013 at 11:18 AM..
 5 years ago '04        #251
Tic Toc 7 heat pts
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 dOwnByLaw310 said:
the family is totally fu-k up i dont even gotta break that down men an women both at fault- No order in the household (1. The Most High 2. Man 3. Woman 4. Children 5. Pets ) sh*t is all mixed up!

I feel you but these problems go WAAAYYY deeper than what's on the surface.

It all starts with comin back to the laws, statues and commandments of the Most High...
You hit the nail on the head...and it all comes down to order...when things are out of order, chaos ensues...

But when things are in order (I'm speaking of within a family) then progress can be made..

It's an uphill battle, but what else is new for black people
 04-10-2013, 11:23 AM         #252
A6249CF  OP
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I live in london

So I will say this

It is evident that black america sets the bar for the other black nations around the globe

And that can be foreseen coz us blacks in england losing as hard as you are, possibly even harder. literally everything you posted refers to the black communities in england
 04-10-2013, 11:28 AM         #253
A6249CF  OP
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I to believe the problem lies with the family structure

they get at us from a young age about 6/7/8. Polute our minds with bullsh*t, these white folks can listen to hip hop and not take it seriously. But this aint just music, this is our culture and represents us as a people. And the younger generations just lapping it up, it's like they're on a conveyor belt

I aint innocent in all of this, because I was one too.... Lord knows.

It's a vicious cycle, young boys growing up with no father figures. So they turn to the media, rappers, ball players, etc etc as role models. And think the life they potray is what being a man is. And that whole process gets rinsed and repeat

I look at my own family and its just like.... Thats another thread for another time
 04-10-2013, 11:31 AM         #254
dOwnByLaw310  OP
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 mR ReZiW said:
I live in london

So I will say this

It is evident that black america sets the bar for the other black nations around the globe

And that can be foreseen coz us blacks in england losing as hard as you are, possibly even harder. literally everything you posted refers to the black communities in england
I'm already knowin! I got fam out there (Trini) and they say it's basically the same as here from a societal structure,economic, education, housing, etc...Some brothas and sistas are waking up tho but most won't...
 5 years ago '05        #255
phantomnation 2090 heat pts2090
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[pic - click to view]



BILL COSBY HAS GONE AND DONE IT AGAIN... (excerpt)

They're standing on the corner and they can't speak English.
I can't even talk the way these people talk: Why you ain't, Where you is, What he drive, Where he stay, Where he work, Who you be...
And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk. And then I heard the father talk.

Everybody knows it's important to speak English except these knuckleheads. You can't be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth. In fact you will never get any kind of job making a decent living.

People marched and were hit in the face with rocks to get an Education, and now we've got these knuckleheads walking around.

The lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal. These people are not parenting. They are buying things for kids.
$500 sneakers for what?

And they won't spend $200 for Hooked on Phonics.

I am talking about these people who cry when their son is standing there in an orange suit. Where were you when he was 2? Where were you when he was 12? Where were you when he was 18 and how come you didn't know that he had a pistol?

And where is the father? Or who is his father?

People putting their clothes on backward: Isn't that a sign of something gone wrong?
People with their hats on backward, pants down around the crack, isn't that a sign of something?

Isn't it a sign of something when she has her dress all the way up and got all type of needles [piercing] going through her body? What part of Africa did this come from??
We are not Africans. Those people are not Africans; they don't know a thing about Africa.

I say this all of the time. It would be like white people saying they are European-American. That is totally stupid.

I was born here, and so were my parents and grand parents and, very likely my great grandparents. I don't have any connection to Africa, no more than white Americans have to Germany , Scotland , England , Ireland , or the Netherlands . The same applies to 99 percent of all the black Americans as regards to Africa . So stop, already! ! !
With names like Shaniqua, Taliqua and Mohammed and all of that crap ......... And all of them are in jail.

Brown or black versus the Board of Education is no longer the white person's problem.
We have got to take the neighborhood back.
People used to be ashamed. Today a woman has eight children with eight different 'husbands' -- or men or whatever you call them now.

We have millionaire football players who cannot read. We have million-dollar basketball players who can't write two paragraphs. We, as black folks have to do a better job.

Someone working at Wal-Mart with seven kids, you are hurting us.
We have to start holding each other to a higher standard.
We cannot blame the white people any longer.'

Dr. William Henry 'Bill' Cosby, Jr., Ed. D.

WELL SAID, BILL It's NOT about color...It's about behavior!!!
 5 years ago '10        #256
BiZz 67 heat pts67
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 phantomnation said:

[pic - click to view]



BILL COSBY HAS GONE AND DONE IT AGAIN... (excerpt)

They're standing on the corner and they can't speak English.
I can't even talk the way these people talk: Why you ain't, Where you is, What he drive, Where he stay, Where he work, Who you be...
And I blamed the kid until I heard the mother talk. And then I heard the father talk.

Everybody knows it's important to speak English except these knuckleheads. You can't be a doctor with that kind of crap coming out of your mouth. In fact you will never get any kind of job making a decent living.

People marched and were hit in the face with rocks to get an Education, and now we've got these knuckleheads walking around.

The lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal. These people are not parenting. They are buying things for kids.
$500 sneakers for what?

And they won't spend $200 for Hooked on Phonics.

I am talking about these people who cry when their son is standing there in an orange suit. Where were you when he was 2? Where were you when he was 12? Where were you when he was 18 and how come you didn't know that he had a pistol?

And where is the father? Or who is his father?

People putting their clothes on backward: Isn't that a sign of something gone wrong?
People with their hats on backward, pants down around the crack, isn't that a sign of something?

Isn't it a sign of something when she has her dress all the way up and got all type of needles [piercing] going through her body? What part of Africa did this come from??
We are not Africans. Those people are not Africans; they don't know a thing about Africa.

I say this all of the time. It would be like white people saying they are European-American. That is totally stupid.

I was born here, and so were my parents and grand parents and, very likely my great grandparents. I don't have any connection to Africa, no more than white Americans have to Germany , Scotland , England , Ireland , or the Netherlands . The same applies to 99 percent of all the black Americans as regards to Africa . So stop, already! ! !
With names like Shaniqua, Taliqua and Mohammed and all of that crap ......... And all of them are in jail.

Brown or black versus the Board of Education is no longer the white person's problem.
We have got to take the neighborhood back.
People used to be ashamed. Today a woman has eight children with eight different 'husbands' -- or men or whatever you call them now.

We have millionaire football players who cannot read. We have million-dollar basketball players who can't write two paragraphs. We, as black folks have to do a better job.

Someone working at Wal-Mart with seven kids, you are hurting us.
We have to start holding each other to a higher standard.
We cannot blame the white people any longer.'

Dr. William Henry 'Bill' Cosby, Jr., Ed. D.

WELL SAID, BILL It's NOT about color...It's about behavior!!!
Couldn't of said it better myself

I'm sure your grandparents and parents were sitting around blaming the "white man" for everything too, Look where that got you.
 04-10-2013, 12:26 PM         #257
A6249CF  OP
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 dOwnByLaw310 said:
I'm already knowin! I got fam out there (Trini) and they say it's basically the same as here from a societal structure,economic, education, housing, etc...Some brothas and sistas are waking up tho but most won't...
no doubt, thats why i just gotta shake my head when i see comments like these

 Minister said:
thats how i know some of u aren't from the ghetto


you never met a crackhead
 Minister said:
OP is from britain


but these square mcgayhees dunno the difference.
people thinking crack and drug epidemics are exclusive to america

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

The only thing I can say to my brothas, is to gain the knowledge, father your kids, pass the knowledge on, put religions of your enslavers on the back burner. And be the spook sat by the door

edit- By the spook sat by the door statement... I dont mean start of a revloution and k!ll whitey. I mean act white and portray a bootlicker to get to high places, then when you there. Make sure you know what the deal is, do as they do.


Last edited by A6249CF; 04-10-2013 at 12:29 PM..
 5 years ago '04        #258
Kliq 108 heat pts108
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The original YouTube video doesn't work anymore. Can someone re-up it? This sounds like a very interesting topic and while it is sensitive it should definitely be discussed more.
 5 years ago '12        #259
dman 4901 38 heat pts38
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 dOwnByLaw310 said:
So called "African Americans" in America are not "African" or originated from there- Zondervan's Bible Dictionary "Ham, the youngest son of Noah, born probably about 96 years before the Flood and one of eight persons to live through the flood. He became the progenitor of the dark races-not the Negroes, but the Egyptians, Ethiopians, Libyans and Canaanites."

we dont own anything of value-Depends on what you consider "valuable" but from an economic standpoint, yep.

-we dont own land,gold or any establishment that we can control an can help others like us

The biggest "killer" in the black community

-we choose to go to the clinic an k!ll the babies.
we choose to shoot each other.
we choose to attack each other with bats an knifes.
we choose to poison each other.
I dont get no deeper than our people doing it to each other BY CHOCIE.
i dont give a flying fu*k about how deep it gets WHEN THE fu*k ARE WE GONNA STOP
WE HAVE A CHOCIE WE SHOULDNT BE f!ghtING EACH OTHER


we dont value education- Who is in charge of the curriculum in the American school system? What are they teaching? Nothing about your TRUE history

-we dont own anything of value schools are included in that.
we cant even build our own private schools
fu*k who controls that sh*t we dont give a fu*k about the sh*t enough to care who controls it anyway am i wrong.........


we are so divide with everything- By design

-an that makes it ok an acceptable.there comes a time an a point where we need to take some responsibilty an put the bullsh*t aside an work together.

we let these drug dealers(Who's the REAL drug dealers?),rappers,athletes,actors an other entertainers (Who pays these people and are able to bombard the different mediums of media with these images?) represent us worldwide an to add insult to injury they dont/cant help there own people (By design)

-yea the govt. is a drug dealer also AN THEY SAID THEY PUT THAT sh*t THERE ON PURPOSE an what happened.NOT a dame thing an my mother was a on that sh*t an you know who sold her that sh*t YUP A BLACK MAN so miss me with that.
-i DONT CARE WHO PAYS THEM im pretty sure i have a good idea of who pays them but we continue to support/worship them like they are gods.i aint trying to hear those excusses im tired of them.



black men hate/dont respect black women an vice versa (I don't, I only deal with the nation but it's major problem)



we fail our children an we end up raising monster an crazy people ( Who's the REAL monsters and crazy people?)

-we are, cause we continue to pretend like it aint on US to break this bullsh*t cycle
like it aint on us. WE hold the power to change
not some magical negro in the white house
not some guy in the sky we have never seen
we hold the power to change but we so dam divided over sh*t that dont matter in the grand scheme of things it dont look good for my people
.


worldstar/facebook/twitter an other social media outlets make us look like some str8 animals- That's it purpose but do you read and see some of the hateful, ANIMALISTIC, savage like comments and actions by the other nations?

-if we had sometype of love an respect for our fellow man an didnt ''try an buss his head to the white meat'' there wouldnt be a WSHH. you do know it was a black man who started WSHH

the family is totally fu-k up i dont even gotta break that down men an women both at fault- No order in the household (1. The Most High 2. Man 3. Woman 4. Children 5. Pets ) sh*t is all mixed up!

-no disrespect to your religon but i aint with that aint nobody gonna save our people on this earth but us, we sat by an prayed for decades an centurys an what did it get us
no much in my opinion but like i said no disrespect man.
i respect any an everyones religon
.

You comin off like a self-hater but dont let this world make you crazy.I feel you but these problems go WAAAYYY deeper than what's on the surface.

-well if being sick of ....
seeing black on black crime.
watching stupid black folks being ratchet .
seeing my people being crazy.
seeing all these single baby mommas.
seeing all these fatherless kids.
getting looked at like im a ratchet negro because we share the same complextion.
being so divided.
watching my people fail time after time an then watching them just be cool with it cause we got a couple of crumbs.
ect
ect

call me a self hating black men then
look at the state of our people as a whole we should start changing




It all starts with comin back to the laws, statues and commandments of the Most High...

lets leave religon out of this it is just as dangerous as anything else.........


Last edited by dman 4901; 04-10-2013 at 01:54 PM..
 04-10-2013, 01:53 PM         #260
dOwnByLaw310  OP
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 dman 4901 said:
lets leave religon out of this it is just as dangerous as anything else.........
I don't deal with "religion"
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