Jan 9 - War on the American people? Obama exploring executive orders to combat gun violence. (CNN)

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 01-10-2013, 02:03 AM         #41
Bob Sacamano 
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 psylence2k said:
I don't see how better gun control regulation is in direct conflict with the second amendment (unless they try to ban guns completely).

but as far as the second amendment goes as an excuse to for gun advocacy, this country as a whole needs to seriously revisit the second amendment and be educated on the ENTIRE context of why, how, what, and when it was written for.

They also need to look at the who ( Madison & Jefferson ) of it's writing and understand their mind state and entire opinion of it as well as the rest of the constitution.
Any gun control is in conflict with the 2nd amendment; gun control as a concept is in conflict with the spirit of the 2nd amendment. That is not to say that I don't favor any sort of gun control whatsoever, I think the majority of folks who are reasonable and rational do favor at least some degree of restriction (although in reality that might be a stretch, we love our guns in the U.S. haha). I agree with your statement about the public becoming more educated as to the constitutional context, but when it comes down to it, in our country the right to bear arms is fundamental and foundational. The details of British colonialism at the time is not as important as you make it seem. Tyranny exists in this world to this day, tyrannical government is ALWAYS a possibility, no matter how remote it seems at the time, which is exactly why the founding fathers included the 2nd amendment.

My concern is not so much with the policy proposals regarding gun control, but the EXECUTIVE ORDER aspect of this whole story. That is what is most important. I'm a.ssuming you are familiar with the phrase 'Checks and Balances' ??? Yeah, if Obama implements gun control through executive order he will instantly make the executive branch BY FAR the most powerful branch of government, even moreso than it already is. There needs to be balance, thats how our system was designed.


Last edited by Bob Sacamano; 01-10-2013 at 02:10 AM..
 01-10-2013, 02:06 AM         #42
cloud69 
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and i guess i havent dropped my .02 on the whole gun thing....lets see

well i love guns, im a collector and an advid sport shooter....so no i dont want to see a stricter version of the 94 gun control issue, which by the way was originally written up by bidden in 91 and hung in limbo until the waco tx shooting in 93 when it was quickly passed; seem familiar? but guns aren't the issue, taking away guns from civilians wont change people..if u want someone dead ull k!ll them rather u own a gun r not ull find a way. and the "semi-auto" weapons in question arent even the ones used in the average gun crimes. No one wants to take the time to address the real issue...our society...lets not question what kind of weapon is used in these mass shootings and question what makes these people want to commit the horrible acts. think abt it, the same day in china a man ran in a school with a knife and k!lled almost as many kids. Are u going to ban Knifes? our try and change our society...lets stop mainstream media from glorifying crime and making people infamous and desensitizing our youth....

idk..thats how i feel...something needs to be done but taking away guns isnt the answer. and im not some super patriotic guy or anything (hell i wouldn't even stand for the pledge through school) but i do believe in the rights of the people.
 5 years ago '04        #43
psylence2k 58 heat pts58
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 Bob Sacamano said:
Any gun control is in conflict with the 2nd amendment, the whole concept of gun control is in conflict with the spirit of the 2nd amendment. That is not to say that I don't favor any sort of gun control whatsoever, I think most rational people do. I agree with your statement about the public becoming more educated as to the constitutional context, but when it comes down to it, in our country the right to bear arms is fundamental and foundational.

My concern is not so much with the policy proposals regarding gun control, but the EXECUTIVE ORDER aspect of this whole story. That is what is most important. I'm a.ssuming you are familiar with the phrase 'Checks and Balances' ??? Yeah, if Obama implements gun control through executive order he will instantly make the executive branch BY FAR the most powerful branch of government, even moreso than it already is. There needs to be balance, thats how our system was designed.

True but it's a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation. People need to also remember the constitution was written by regular human beings, people treat it as if it was handed down by God himself.

Thomas Jefferson even said that the second amendment should be revisited every 20 years and re-evaluated.

He also said that a country governed by a unaltered constitution written many years before it's current state is like a grown man wearing a child's coat.
 5 years ago '09        #44
Zaosyn 261 heat pts261
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Honestly though those semi-automatic AR-15 a.ssault rifles and sh*t gun nuts go crazy for and have to own one and shoot up schools and movie theaters with do need to get banned. If you can't use a regular hunting rifle, pistol or even a shotgun to protect yourself and family you probably don't need an a.ssault rifle either.


Last edited by Zaosyn; 01-10-2013 at 02:17 AM..
 01-10-2013, 02:17 AM         #45
Bob Sacamano 
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 psylence2k said:
True but it's a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation. People need to also remember the constitution was written by regular human beings, people treat it as if it was handed down by God himself.

Thomas Jefferson even said that the second amendment should be revisited every 20 years and re-evaluated.

He also said that a country governed by a unaltered constitution written many years before it's current state is like a grown man wearing a child's coat.
That a direct quote? That is interesting if true, but I never heard it. Regardless, our constitution is far from unaltered, hence the term 'amendment.' Yeah #2 was a Bill of Rights original, but we got plenty amendments since then.

It is funny the degree to which we idolize the founding fathers, but I would dispute your use of the word 'regular,' they were human beings but they were pretty extraordinary.


Last edited by Bob Sacamano; 01-10-2013 at 02:43 AM..
 01-10-2013, 02:17 AM         #46
killya 
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 psylence2k said:
True but it's a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation. People need to also remember the constitution was written by regular human beings, people treat it as if it was handed down by God himself.

Thomas Jefferson even said that the second amendment should be revisited every 20 years and re-evaluated.

He also said that a country governed by a unaltered constitution written many years before it's current state is like a grown man wearing a child's coat.
please link me to those quotes. I saw that dude say that on that piers morgan interview today after Larry Prat crucified him and pissed Morgan off. I just googled and none of those came across that Jefferson really said that.
 01-10-2013, 02:24 AM         #47
killya 
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 Zaosyn said:
Honestly though those semi-automatic AR-15 a.ssault rifles and sh*t gun nuts go crazy for and have to own one and shoot up schools and movie theaters with do need to get banned. If you can't use a regular hunting rifle, pistol or even a shotgun to protect yourself and family you probably don't need an a.ssault rifle either.
well there here...and people have them. And even more people have them now since Obama wants to ban them most likely. So you can blame him for more people buying them up


Anyways I have to disagree with you. Yea once every blue moon we will have a mass shooting. But not everybody is a James holmes or a Adam Lanza. Plus both of those nut jobs were drugged out their fu*king mind almost like every school shooter. Its not the guns fault. Blame the pharma companies hooking people on Meds that have a 50/50 percent chance of making them go crazy and k!lling themselves and others.

And those weapons do not shoot a million bullets a second like the dumb a.ss lady said today on Piers Morgan. I nearly threw up at the lies being spewed. Yes some states allow fully automatic weapons but most do not.

The ar15s that Civilians own is a 1 round burst. not the military grade version. More lies by CNN.


Most gun deaths in america anyways are from pistols...wonder why they arent going after those and keeping their focus on automatics?


Last edited by killya; 01-10-2013 at 02:26 AM..
 5 years ago '04        #48
psylence2k 58 heat pts58
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 Bob Sacamano said:
That a direct quote? That is interesting if true, but I never heard it. Regardless, our constitution is far from unaltered, hence the term 'amendment.' Yeah #2 was a Bill of Rights original, but we got plenty amendments since then.

It is funny the degree to which we idolize the founding fathers, but I would dispute your use of the word 'regular,' they were human beings but they were pretty extraordinary human beings.
Yeah but I view most amendments more as "additions" than "alterations".

 killya said:
please link me to those quotes. I saw that dude say that on that piers morgan interview today after Larry Prat crucified him and pissed Morgan off. I just googled and none of those came across that Jefferson really said that.
On the Jefferson Memorial's 4th panel it reads:

"I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions, but laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors."
and I remember seeing a while back the statement of him specifically addressing the 2nd amendment with that 20 year statement , I can't find the exact one but here's another quote that pretty much encompasses the same thing

from a letter he wrote to Madison :

Constitutions - No society can make a perpetual Constitution or even a perpetual law. The earth belongs always to the living generation. They may manage it then, and what proceeds from it, as they please during their usufruct. They are masters, too, of their own persons, and consequently may govern them as they please. But persons and property make the sum of the objects of government. The Constitution and laws of their predecessors extinguished them, in their natural course, with those whose will gave them being. This could preserve that being till it ceased to be itself, and no longer. Every Constitution, then, and every law, naturally expires at the end of nineteen years. If it be enforced longer it is an act of force and not of right.
Us thinking our country should be bound relentlessly to the same constitution despite the vast changes to our society is what Jefferson spoke against.

He thought it should be re-evaluated every 19 years, you dont think he would've said the same thing after more than 200 years worth of changes ??

This pretty much shows that Jefferson felt these laws were only applicable to his country during this particular time. He knew he wasn't God and couldn't come up with a set of laws that would remain flawless into the ages.


Last edited by psylence2k; 01-10-2013 at 02:56 AM..
 01-10-2013, 02:54 AM         #49
Bob Sacamano 
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 psylence2k said:
Yeah but I view most amendments more as "additions" than "alterations".
Yeah thats valid.

As far as the rest, those are some great quotes, but the fact is, we re-examine, re-evaluate, re-format, add to, subtract from, or completely strike down LAWS all the damn time. In that last long Jefferson quote, he makes no distinction between 'constitutions' and 'laws' (they appear to me to be used interchangeably) but in modern times, the difference between the U.S. constitution as an authoritative legal framework, and the hundreds of thousands of actual statutes on the books that are ever changing/evolving is vast. As a society we change our laws all the time.

My whole point with this is, it is the duty of the LEGISLATIVE branch of government to change law. The president having the ability to institute laws that effect our fundamental liberties as U.S. citizens without the LEGISLATIVE branch being involved whatsoever, is a dangerous game, because what is the check on that? I guess 4 year term wo uld be the only one, but a lot of damage can be done in that amount of time. The president being able to completely bypass Congress in making/changing law is antithetical to our representative democracy. In fact it has a distinctly authoritarian quality to it, especially when it would serve to take power away from the people.


Last edited by Bob Sacamano; 01-10-2013 at 03:12 AM..
 01-10-2013, 03:11 AM         #50
killya 
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 psylence2k said:
Yeah but I view most amendments more as "additions" than "alterations".



On the Jefferson Memorial's 4th panel it reads:



and I remember seeing a while back the statement of him specifically addressing the 2nd amendment with that 20 year statement , I can't find the exact one but here's another quote that pretty much encompasses the same thing

from a letter he wrote to Madison :



Us thinking our country should be bound relentlessly to the same constitution despite the vast changes to our society is what Jefferson spoke against.

He thought it should be re-evaluated every 19 years, you dont think he would've said the same thing after more than 200 years worth of changes ??

This pretty much shows that Jefferson felt these laws were only applicable to his country during this particular time. He knew he wasn't God and couldn't come up with a set of laws that would remain flawless into the ages.

I didnt even know any of that bro good looks on the information

I still think that SEMI automatic weapons should be here to stay

automatic weapons on the other hand i think should be banned...

automatic weapons = 8 bullets in 1 second kind of weapons that can tear your a.ss apart. These are what the military use.

Semi automatic weapons = 1 round burst weapons. They just look like automatics..these are for civilian use..

Theres a big difference between the 2 and alot of people are being fooled by this little thing! They keep saying Adam Lanza was using a semi automatic AR15 and its more lies. It wasnt a semi automatic like the media keeps spewing.

If it was a semi automatic there is no way he would of been able to k!ll all those kids in the speed he did. You cannot hold down the trigger on a semi automatic and have it keep firing.


That can only be done with a automatic a.ssault rifle. Once again CNN is fu*king up.
 01-10-2013, 03:17 AM         #51
Bob Sacamano 
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 killya said:
I didnt even know any of that bro good looks on the information

I still think that SEMI automatic weapons should be here to stay

automatic weapons on the other hand i think should be banned...

automatic weapons = 8 bullets in 1 second kind of weapons that can tear your a.ss apart. These are what the military use.

Semi automatic weapons = 1 round burst weapons. They just look like automatics..these are for civilian use..

Theres a big difference between the 2 and alot of people are being fooled by this little thing! They keep saying Adam Lanza was using a semi automatic AR15 and its more lies. It wasnt a semi automatic like the media keeps spewing.

If it was a semi automatic there is no way he would of been able to k!ll all those kids in the speed he did. You cannot hold down the trigger on a semi automatic and have it keep firing.


That can only be done with a automatic a.ssault rifle. Once again CNN is fu*king up.

Yeah there is a big difference hah, I'm with you man, that is the only gun control im down with (as far as the type of weapons not at all available to the public). Fully auto a.ssualt weapons should not be available, but like you explained the difference between full auto and semi is enormous. If people dont understand the difference, they're probly pretty stupid hah its not complicated. A semi-auto AR-15 is not really that much more dangerous than a glock, my friend has both so I have compared at the range. obviously you got some extra pop and accuracy with a rifle, but as far as public safety the difference is negligible.


Last edited by Bob Sacamano; 01-10-2013 at 03:22 AM..
 01-10-2013, 03:18 AM         #52
killya 
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[video - click to view]


this is a video showing the difference between the auto and semi auto...when he uses full auto this old man could not even control the damn thing. This particular weapon is not usually sold to Civilians. If it is sold to civilians in certain states it cost ALOT of money.

Most of these kinds of weapons are usually just semi automatic. They do not have the switch to automatic on the weapon. But in this vid you can see the difference between the two.
 5 years ago '10        #53
WalmartRollback 3 heat pts
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 TheMindOf said:
Guy. This aint the 1700's

You think if the government wants too instate Martial Law your Wal-Mart gun is gonna protect you from drone strikes, f!ghter jets, missiles and all the other weaponry they have that you DONT.


If the government wanted to do it, they would still do it and there's really nothing that you can do about it.

That's why all this paranoia is retarded.
Thank you! These mother fu*kers on boxden are so simple
 01-10-2013, 03:24 AM         #54
killya 
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[video - click to view]


another difference.

just a 1 shot burst.

No different that a hand gun but obviously it would inflict more damage...they keep saying these kids were using semi autos and not knowing what the fu*k their talking about.
 5 years ago '09        #55
ImAMonster 407 heat pts407
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Y'all wanted him. Y'all got him. Y'all might not have liked Mitt Romney because of his "personality" but this country would not have taken this turn had he been elected. But it's all good. I didn't want Obama to be re-elected, but now I'm stuck with him because somebody else wanted him.
 5 years ago '09        #56
Zaosyn 261 heat pts261
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 ImAMonster said:
Y'all wanted him. Y'all got him. Y'all might not have liked Mitt Romney because of his "personality" but this country would not have taken this turn had he been elected. But it's all good. I didn't want Obama to be re-elected, but now I'm stuck with him because somebody else wanted him.
lol you want your state to resign from the union too?


Last edited by Zaosyn; 01-10-2013 at 04:41 AM..
 5 years ago '06        #57
canal_boys 8 heat pts
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 TheMindOf said:
Guy. This aint the 1700's

You think if the government wants too instate Martial Law your Wal-Mart gun is gonna protect you from drone strikes, f!ghter jets, missiles and all the other weaponry they have that you DONT.


If the government wanted to do it, they would still do it and there's really nothing that you can do about it.

That's why all this paranoia is retarded.
Wrong. You seems to not understand that millions of people with guns can f!ght back against thousands with drones and bombs.
 5 years ago '10        #58
gakhteebo 
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 TheMindOf said:
TEN Thousand gun related deaths a year

Innocent children being slaughtered (under our noses. In our own country)

[pic - click to view]




Honestly. I care more about children being murdered and not having the chance to live, more than I care about some ADULTS who bought some houses they KNEW they couldnt afford.

That's their business. Then when the sh*t hits the fan they wanna blame the bank and not their own stupid a.sses for taking loans they knew they couldn't cover.

The bank didn't FORCE anybody to take apply for any loans or mortgages. People CHOSE to go into those banks and make those decisions.

You don't HAVE to own a home. If you know you can only afford an apartment for the time being. Live in a goddamn apartment. Thats what's wrong with this country. Nothing is ever anybody's fault. Theres always somebody else to blame.

Those adults made their own decisions.

Those kids on the other hand, never even got the chance to live.

Back to the topic though.

If you don't think Ten Thousand gun related deaths a year is an issue (especially when other countries have proven that for a civilized nation, that number is absurd) then there's something wrong with you.

Stop trying to deflect attention from the issue at hand.
 5 years ago '06        #59
canal_boys 8 heat pts
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 Heisenberg said:
martial law won't happen in my lifetime. so who gives a sh*t?
don't plan to have children?
 5 years ago '07        #60
Ham Rove 3511 heat pts3511
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this guy andre thinks alex jones is a legit news source that is all you meed to know about him.
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