Dec 15 - Gun Owners of America: Gun control advocates “have the blood of children on their hands”

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 5 years ago '08        #181
stlcardinals19 32 heat pts32
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 pocketchange said:
Maybe I'm analyzing too much, but if they were going to make any changes now would be a good time.
I think he was just pissed he had to make this sort of address after a mass shooting for the 4th time, and that we need to ensure much better mental health.
 5 years ago '04        #182
Screwhead|m 194 heat pts194
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 stlcardinals19 said:
Hide, and make safe barriers or barricades is what I'd try to do. I'm not for a fireright, just think too many factors in other civilians trying to remain focused and lining up a shot w/their pistols(b/c that's all they can carry) going up against a well-armed, mainly calm sicko w/an a.ssault Rifle.
Hide, and make "safe" barriers?

No disrespect man, but that's hanging on by a wing & a prayer.

All options should be presented as plans, including armed defense, with somewhat regular trips to the shooting range with some/all of your fellow colleagues.

Turn it into a time for fun as well as education.

One is never too old to learn.


I'm not for a firef!ght either, but when life hands you lemons, you have to make lemonade.

You (me, or anyone else) will have to face this person whether you're armed or not.

In my view, it's better to have a means of defense (and skill) to have a chance of survival, instead of (all due respect) hoping for the best.


 stlcardinals19 said:
If you ask me, we need to do shooting evacuation/barrier exercises in both the workplace and @ school to better prepare(now that I think about it, we NEVER had such exercises when I was in HS). But if we make guns much harder to come by, they might very well be discouraged from such an act.
That's not a bad idea.

As long as that isn't the only plan promoted as a solution.


 stlcardinals19 said:
An ever-decreasing selection is something I'd be down for, but I feel there'd be much more of an effort to crackdown on street sales if further regulation was ever pushed.........IMO.
I think you put too much faith in the government as a defense from dangerous situations.

It's comforting to trust in the government's prowess to have the answers, but there are times in life where they don't have the answers.

The forefathers warned us of that as well.


 stlcardinals19 said:
And also alot of these street sellers get their guns from licensed-owned shops and gun shows, some of which don't even require a background check or I.D.
Ah, the old gun shop reasoning.

That accusation promoted by regulation-loving politicians has never been fully proven.

As for licensed-owned gun shops, is there any solid proof of that?


 stlcardinals19 said:
Au contraire, regulation did its part in keeping any CT resident from using a CT-bought gun to commit this senseless act.
Not this time:

Mother Nancy Lanza often took her kids target shooting, landscaper Dan Holmes said. 'That was a passion,' he said. 'The whole family would go together.' Her 20-year-old son Adam k!lled her with one of her own guns before using them to murder 20 children at the elementary school where she once worked.



Government plans are not fullproof.

The forefathers tried to get that through to us every chance they got, both in writing and in public.


 stlcardinals19 said:
It'd be tough, but if we could get these surrounding areas to follow Connecticut's plans, then I think we'd start seeing situations like in China where the man is forced to use a much less effective weapon(a knife)
Communist China?

Firearms are illegal in China, so i don't know if that is the best example.
 12-17-2012, 06:08 AM         #183
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 Screwhead said:

The forefathers tried to get that through to us every chance they got, both in writing and in public.

The countries fore fathers developed laws over 220 years....there is no way they could have predicted automatic weapons, annual murder rates in the thousands, or mass shootings at least in the context of what we have today. While they had great minds......they could not predict the future, which is why as we evolve or devolve as a country we need to update our laws to better fit our society..........as a child your parents spanked you when you were bad......but as you got older your parents had to find different ways to punish you..........times change.......only a idiot would feel that the same laws that applied 220 years ago should be still apply today with out new provisions or guidelines. Not to mention in a lot of areas the fore fathers got it wrong..........
 5 years ago '06        #184
nightmare 429 heat pts429
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 Dos-effect said:
The countries fore fathers developed laws over 220 years....there is no way they could have predicted automatic weapons, annual murder rates in the thousands, or mass shootings at least in the context of what we have today. While they had great minds......they could not predict the future, which is why as we evolve or devolve as a country we need to update our laws to better fit our society..........as a child your parents spanked you when you were bad......but as you got older your parents had to find different ways to punish you..........times change.......only a idiot would feel that the same laws that applied 220 years ago should be still apply today with out new provisions or guidelines. Not to mention in a lot of areas the fore fathers got it wrong..........
i agree, i feel its a little disingenuous to literally stand behind a wartime document, that was written by wealthy slave masters, about human rights
 5 years ago '04        #185
zonicview 9 heat pts
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so why are we still following the bible and the koran and all these other outdated books
 5 years ago '05        #186
Andrefrbk 1067 heat pts1067
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 zonicview said:
so why are we still following the bible and the koran and all these other outdated books
Majority of us arnt. In 100 years ie another lifetime religion will be rare. Sad that our lifetime is stupid, but its obvious our future generation is adapting science and other means of knowledge.

Evolutionary speaking, we are evolving away from theism. Statically too.
 5 years ago '06        #187
nightmare 429 heat pts429
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 zonicview said:
so why are we still following the bible and the koran and all these other outdated books
good question, one i ask everyday
 5 years ago '08        #188
slimdogg3325 1 heat pts
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 zonicview said:
so why are we still following the bible and the koran and all these other outdated books
because some people still find hope and faith in the words of these "outdated books". one mans trash is another mans treasure.

2 things i'll never understand is how a man can fear another man and how a man can legitimately question another mans beliefs
 12-17-2012, 02:41 PM         #189
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 slimdogg3325 said:
because some people still find hope and faith in the words of these "outdated books". one mans trash is another mans treasure.

2 things i'll never understand is how a man can fear another man and how a man can legitimately question another mans beliefs
Well if you knew me and I believed that leprechans created the world from gold they sh*tted out thier a.ss.....you wouldnt question that?
 5 years ago '08        #190
stlcardinals19 32 heat pts32
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 Screwhead said:
Hide, and make "safe" barriers?

No disrespect man, but that's hanging on by a wing & a prayer.

All options should be presented as plans, including armed defense, with somewhat regular trips to the shooting range with some/all of your fellow colleagues.

Turn it into a time for fun as well as education.

One is never too old to learn.


I'm not for a firef!ght either, but when life hands you lemons, you have to make lemonade.

You (me, or anyone else) will have to face this person whether you're armed or not.

In my view, it's better to have a means of defense (and skill) to have a chance of survival, instead of (all due respect) hoping for the best.
I take no offense if you're..........put off by what I said. It's probably known as a pus*y way and is nowhere near as heroic as standing up and firing the life-saving bullet, but I've grown up always believing that the best way to stop a shooter is to avoid him @ all costs and present a target that's tough to reach. Again nowhere near as heroic, but I just feel the best way to f!ght is to avoid it.



That's not a bad idea.

As long as that isn't the only plan promoted as a solution.
Glad to see you'd @ least be on board w/the exercises and drills


I think you put too much faith in the government as a defense from dangerous situations.

It's comforting to trust in the government's prowess to have the answers, but there are times in life where they don't have the answers.

The forefathers warned us of that as well.

Ehh, that's all I ask for. Probably a bit naive on my part, but when it comes to cracking down and making sweeps, if such regulations were passed, I'd have the faith they'd make their best effort. In terms of trying to find answers......I dunno, mainly the ones w/the training and experience are those w//in the our systems. If they don't have the answers, then what would you suggest?(no offense if that came off as stand off-ish)


Ah, the old gun shop reasoning.

That accusation promoted by regulation-loving politicians has never been fully proven.

As for licensed-owned gun shops, is there any solid proof of that?


The Gun Shop bit was a heat of the moment, and I apologize for that. But the Gun Shows do have a problem w/ID Checks.



Not this time:





Government plans are not fullproof.

The forefathers tried to get that through to us every chance they got, both in writing and in public.
I understand that, but the law was to keep something like this from happening w/a Connecticut-bought gun. The mom and fam lived in New Jersey, and that's where she kept them and most likely bought them. It's unfortunate, however, that states like NY and NJ weren't able to have the laws CT does(IMO), or perhaps this cat would've just offed himself.



Communist China?

Firearms are illegal in China, so i don't know if that is the best example.
I meant the best example when some sicko can't come across a gun or it was EXTREMELY hard to find one.
 5 years ago '08        #191
slimdogg3325 1 heat pts
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 Dos-effect said:
Well if you knew me and I believed that leprechans created the world from gold they sh*tted out thier a.ss.....you wouldnt question that?
i will entertain this ridiculous hypo. but the real question is if i questioned that belief could i get mad at the answer?

people ask questions for 2 reasons. to find answers or to find truth. what we need to do is learn to differentiate the 2
 5 years ago '06        #192
Mr Kush 32 heat pts32
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 bobbysteels18 said:
There have been gun problems in a america for years, But you never hear because its black youth in the inner city, From LA Chicago New York most inner cities in america. Its sad something like this had to happen to make people call for gun control. When we should have did it years ago Just saying.
LOL is this post a joke? I'm serious, you do realize that LA, Chicago, and NY have some of the strictest gun control laws in the country yet they are some of the most dangerous cities in the country
 5 years ago '06        #193
Mr Kush 32 heat pts32
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 ManWithoutFear! said:
What's "I live in Florida so me" mean?

They're issuing hammers out there?

Just asking. Simple yes woulda sufficed.
Yeah.

Has prohibition ever stopped anyone from doing anything?

"The philosophy of gun control: Teenagers are roaring through town at 90MPH, where the speed limit is 25. Your solution is to lower the speed limit to 20."


Last edited by Mr Kush; 12-17-2012 at 03:44 PM..
 12-17-2012, 04:08 PM         #194
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 Mr Kush said:
Yeah.

Has prohibition ever stopped anyone from doing anything?

"The philosophy of gun control: Teenagers are roaring through town at 90MPH, where the speed limit is 25. Your solution is to lower the speed limit to 20."
Thats not quite accurate.....in fact using that same logic most pro guns enthuisiast would solve the problem by raising the speed limit to 95MPH, cause why should an American have to abide by laws right?......That is essentially what poeple are saying when they endorse more guns......thats actaully a much better analogy


A gun control enthusiast would probably prefer no one to drive on the road period.............
 5 years ago '10        #195
SoFresh170 27 heat pts27
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 Screwhead said:
Why shouldn't they?



at "heaters."

Teachers somehow aren't capable of learning to use firearms?



They already are:
  • "Lockdowns" (FORCING children & unarmed adults to stay in a dangerous environment, keeping parents/guardians away from their children)

  • Police becoming militarized, (as well as) driving around in tanks,

  • More Homeland Security $$$ (control) to schools and their policies

  • More Homeland Security $$$ (control) to police forces and their policies


The government has been and continues to manipulate the aftermath of these situations for THEIR benefit over the Constitution and the people.
Couldn't have been said any better. People will read this like any other regular sentence and not put any thought into it. Since 9/11 people basically have surrendered their rights to the government and let them fu*k us however they want. I cant believe even with the internet there are so many close minded, stupid individuals. I'm not saying to believe every conspiracy but nothing makes sense to you? Are the events taking place not adding up to a final goal? Damn, it really upsets me that I live in this kind of society. When are people going to open their eyes... and AT LEAST question. For once?
 5 years ago '07        #196
Ham Rove 3511 heat pts3511 OP
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yes everyone the gov is orchestrating these shootings for some bigger plan to take away all guns.
 5 years ago '06        #197
Mr Kush 32 heat pts32
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 Dos-effect said:
Thats not quite accurate.....in fact using that same logic most pro guns enthuisiast would solve the problem by raising the speed limit to 95MPH, cause why should an American have to abide by laws right?......That is essentially what poeple are saying when they endorse more guns......thats actaully a much better analogy


A gun control enthusiast would probably prefer no one to drive on the road period.............
Well it's an analogy, I wouldn't read too much into it. Just food for thought.

My problem with gun control is that most massacres occur in gun-free zones like Hospitals and Schools and such. I feel for those kids in Newton man. I just really wonder what would have happened if there was a single armed person in that school.. Would the casualties have been cut and half? Maybe even cut all together?

To me Gun-Free zones are invitations for fu*king psychos to come in and shoot that sh*t up
 5 years ago '04        #198
Screwhead|m 194 heat pts194
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 stlcardinals19 said:
I take no offense if you're..........put off by what I said. It's probably known as a pus*y way and is nowhere near as heroic as standing up and firing the life-saving bullet, but I've grown up always believing that the best way to stop a shooter is to avoid him @ all costs and present a target that's tough to reach. Again nowhere near as heroic, but I just feel the best way to f!ght is to avoid it.
Heroic, huh?

You're going to throw that at me?

That's not fair, man.


It's all about having a back up plan(s).

Also, a way for others to defend themselves if (God forbid) the k!ller DOES find you & you may not be so lucky.


 stlcardinals19 said:
Glad to see you'd @ least be on board w/the exercises and drills


I'm also on board with having more than one plan.


 stlcardinals19 said:
Ehh, that's all I ask for. Probably a bit naive on my part, but when it comes to cracking down and making sweeps, if such regulations were passed, I'd have the faith they'd make their best effort.
Sorry to hear that.


 stlcardinals19 said:
In terms of trying to find answers......I dunno, mainly the ones w/the training and experience are those w//in the our systems. If they don't have the answers, then what would you suggest?(no offense if that came off as stand off-ish)
I would suggest what I've been saying, to be independent and take steps to secure yourself and others that are with you.

The 2nd Amendment gives us the Right to do so.

Those in the government trivialize our Rights every chance they get, in favor of their protection.....

While not telling you that they gain power when you lose power.


 stlcardinals19 said:


The Gun Shop bit was a heat of the moment, and I apologize for that. But the Gun Shows do have a problem w/ID Checks.
That doesn't prove gun show weapons as ending up in the hands of criminals.


 stlcardinals19 said:
I understand that, but the law was to keep something like this from happening w/a Connecticut-bought gun. The mom and fam lived in New Jersey, and that's where she kept them and most likely bought them. It's unfortunate, however, that states like NY and NJ weren't able to have the laws CT does(IMO), or perhaps this cat would've just offed himself.
The article I posted says they lived in CT.

Also, those laws did nothing to stop Adam from murdering his mother and stealing the guns to commit this crime.

Not to mention, NY and NJ have stricter gun control than CT, and each have higher gun crime rates.

You really should reconsider how much stock you put into these gun "laws."


 stlcardinals19 said:
I meant the best example when some sicko can't come across a gun or it was EXTREMELY hard to find one.
It's still Communist China.

Many anti-gun laws from Mao's days are still on the books.
 12-17-2012, 06:19 PM         #199
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 SoFresh170 said:
Couldn't have been said any better. People will read this like any other regular sentence and not put any thought into it. Since 9/11 people basically have surrendered their rights to the government and let them fu*k us however they want. I cant believe even with the internet there are so many close minded, stupid individuals. I'm not saying to believe every conspiracy but nothing makes sense to you? Are the events taking place not adding up to a final goal? Damn, it really upsets me that I live in this kind of society. When are people going to open their eyes... and AT LEAST question. For once?
Its amazing you could type this anti-government rant without the secret service knocking on your door to arrest you........you guys are really overexaggerating this thing a bit dont you think?
 5 years ago '08        #200
stlcardinals19 32 heat pts32
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 Screwhead said:
Heroic, huh?

You're going to throw that at me?

That's not fair, man.


It's all about having a back up plan(s).

Also, a way for others to defend themselves if (God forbid) the k!ller DOES find you & you may not be so lucky.
Heroic......was a bad choice of words, but saying to hide and avoiding someone isn't very glamorous, so I thought I'd be sounding kinda like a pus*y when I offered what I'd have others do. But for me, I feel that when met w/a scenario like that(school/workplace shooting) the only measure is to avoid the area, and evacuate. All of which can be done by routine exercises and drills.




I'm also on board with having more than one plan.
Perhaps the other plan could be an armed police officer. And not one of those lazy fat ones nearing pension, but one that's pretty fresh out of the Academy and had good scores there. A young up-and-comer, essentially.


Sorry to hear that.

Kind of got a naive mind on me, I know.

I would suggest what I've been saying, to be independent and take steps to secure yourself and others that are with you.

The 2nd Amendment gives us the Right to do so.

Those in the government trivialize our Rights every chance they get, in favor of their protection.....

While not telling you that they gain power when you lose power.
You raise a good point. Fair enough



That doesn't prove gun show weapons as ending up in the hands of criminals.
Perhaps not but it does give us scenarios where a criminal can receive one, or it goes to a family that has mentally unfit members living amongst them.



The article I posted says they lived in CT.

Also, those laws did nothing to stop Adam from murdering his mother and stealing the guns to commit this crime.

Not to mention, NY and NJ have stricter gun control than CT, and each have higher gun crime rates.

You really should reconsider how much stock you put into these gun "laws."
Word? Then I think I got the info down wrong. They said Lanza, of Hoboken, NJ but I guess they meant his brother was there, and I guess I a.ssumed that the family lived in Hoboken.

Damn, that's a shame, right there. OK, guess I'll reconsider my position here then. I'll say this then, the laws kept Adam Lanza from using legally purchased guns that HE bought. Unfortunately, as noted, laws cannot stop irresponsible parents, but I'm not gonna hang that over it.

It's still Communist China.

Many anti-gun laws from Mao's days are still on the books.
Duly noted.
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