Nov 15 - Ron Paul's Last Speech to Congress: 30+ Strangely Ordered Questions

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 11-18-2012, 03:20 PM         #61
ROFLSTOMP 
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 Vancouver said:
Also, libertarian capitalists say they want small government, but of course they still want government to uphold property rights and etc., so they can make staggeringly high amounts of money because, oh yeah, they're the land owners. This sh*t is so obvious and so flimsy. I've read John Locke, which is basically what Libertarian capitalists use, and the sh*t is a horrible text written by a lawyer/land owner/slave owner.
And, invariably, the capitalism Ron Paul cries out for would lead to regulation, welfare, 'socialistic' policies and big government, all over again. What is regulation, welfare, socialised medicine, big government, etc, if not a response to the inequalities and discontentment created by classic liberalism? There is no shady bent government and corporations forcing these things on the people, these are things that people have asked for in their refuge from classic liberalism. People wanted welfare for the bottom of society, they wanted socialised medicine, they wanted education, they wanted regulation of markets, they wanted unions - these are things that people sought out.

That's why so long as there is government and elections(or even without them,) a system of classic liberalism will gradually find itself replaced by social liberalism, or worse. A political uprising comes sooner or later, it always does.

Ron Paul has set America back 20 years, putting a whole generation of kids in the wrong direction.
 11-18-2012, 03:24 PM         #62
TL0VE 
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Ron Paul is an advocate of a free market system. That alone negates him from greatness in my book.
 5 years ago '11        #63
keen77 3 heat pts
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Ron Paul is the truth. Free markets, their shortcomings and potential pitfalls be what they may, still beats socialism, communism, authoritarianism, corporatism, democracy, oligarchy, monarchy, kingdom, fiefdom, and every other system ever tried by man, any day. We've deviated from the Constitution and that's where we--and capitalist, civilized society--have gone wrong.

Constitutional Republic >>>>>>>

EDIT: Oh and "free markets" is a very broad, ambiguous and loaded term, understandably holding a lot of bad connotations. Ron Paul, and the freedom movement are much more about retaining due process, and the inalienable rights, freedom and privacy of the individual

Libertarians believe family, life liberty and the pursuit of happiness are the most important things. I'm Independent but I agree with them on that. If we had stayed true to the US Constitution, not become a police statein a perpetual state of war, control, and lies then the American Dream would still be alive and well instead of on life support


Last edited by keen77; 11-18-2012 at 04:18 PM..
 11-18-2012, 04:36 PM         #64
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 keen77 said:
Libertarians believe family, life liberty and the pursuit of happiness are the most important things.
Shame they didn't believe that when they were keeping black people as slaves and paying everyone else slave labour wages

If Libertarians practiced their supposed belief in family, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness in the first place then people wouldn't have moved away from it

Libertarians always forget to mention that most of the Western world had classic liberalism and didn't much like it. It's a pipe dream, when applied it's always been roundly despised.
 5 years ago '11        #65
keen77 3 heat pts
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 ROFLSTOMP said:
Shame they didn't believe that when they were keeping black people as slaves and paying everyone else slave labour wages

If Libertarians practiced their supposed belief in family, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness in the first place then people wouldn't have moved away from it

Libertarians always forget to mention that most of the Western world had classic liberalism and didn't much like it. It's a pipe dream, when applied it's always been roundly despised.
So the founding fathers were Libertarian? Uh, nope. The Constitution, regrettably, didn't explicitly condemn slavery.

Abraham Lincoln, a Republican, abolished slavery.
 5 years ago '05        #66
Vancouver 11 heat pts11
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 JBeezy said:
I fail to see how the government protecting property rights is some sort of contradiction to "libertarian capitalists" ideals. The government is SUPPOSED to protect freedom, preserve liberties and prevent others from infringing upon the rights of others. Wouldn't you agree with that? Why shouldn't that include property or land a person owns? Lastly, "libertarian capitalists" like RP follow the Austrian economists Ludwig von Mises, F.A. Hayek, Murray Rothbard, etc....
John Locke is very much the same as those economists. The American constitution of life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness comes from John Locke's life, liberty, and property motto. The government upholding private property means that freedom for all is unattainable, as I've said, because those who own the means of production, which are upheld by the state, exploit the majority for profit. This is why, in deregulated capitalism, you see inequalities growing, not decreasing, because the trickle down effect is of course a fallacy. This is what American constitutionalism is based on, and this is what these young people are calling for, albeit probably unknowingly, when they call for a return to the constitution. Not to mention slavery, s3xism, etc., that plagued the point in time when it was written. No thanks, I'd like to make improvements on the political and economic state of humanity.
 5 years ago '05        #67
Vancouver 11 heat pts11
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 keen77 said:
Ron Paul is the truth. Free markets, their shortcomings and potential pitfalls be what they may, still beats socialism, communism, authoritarianism, corporatism, democracy, oligarchy, monarchy, kingdom, fiefdom, and every other system ever tried by man, any day. We've deviated from the Constitution and that's where we--and capitalist, civilized society--have gone wrong.
So, tell me, has social democracy in Scandinavia gone wrong? Are those countries secretly authoritarian states and the rest of the world just doesn't know it?
 11-18-2012, 05:04 PM         #68
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 keen77 said:
So the founding fathers were Libertarian? Uh, nope. The Constitution, regrettably, didn't explicitly condemn slavery.

Abraham Lincoln, a Republican, abolished slavery.
Are you denying that America has a history of classical liberalism? America had classic liberalism and it was subsequently put to sleep by conservatism and socialist movements, after a series of depressions, because it was sh*t, and people realised it didn't work.

Edit, you can read more here, think you'll appreciate the source -


Last edited by ROFLSTOMP; 11-18-2012 at 05:11 PM..
 5 years ago '04        #69
ItAlY2BkLyN 239 heat pts239
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 GameTheory said:
Ron Paul wins people over with drugs and war...but the rest of his policies have MASSIVE holes in them.
we all know that no president in the history of presidents has instituted every one of his policies, exactly as he laid them out. Hell, congress has been blamed for everything Obama failed to fulfill in his campaign promises and policies.

But if you look at his voting record, he has consistently had the interest of the people as #1 priority. He is the only candidate that is willing to point out the faults we as a country have, yet the media and everyone else pretends don't exist. He's a realist. Many policies echo back to war because our foreign policies are to blame for almost everything that is wrong with this country. Debt and the economy, security and constitutional rights, etc, etc. No he is not perfect, but he is better than Obama and Romney.
 11-19-2012, 06:10 PM         #70
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 ItAlY2BkLyN said:
we all know that no president in the history of presidents has instituted every one of his policies, exactly as he laid them out. Hell, congress has been blamed for everything Obama failed to fulfill in his campaign promises and policies.

But if you look at his voting record, he has consistently had the interest of the people as #1 priority. He is the only candidate that is willing to point out the faults we as a country have, yet the media and everyone else pretends don't exist. He's a realist. Many policies echo back to war because our foreign policies are to blame for almost everything that is wrong with this country. Debt and the economy, security and constitutional rights, etc, etc. No he is not perfect, but he is better than Obama and Romney.
He's not the only candidate though, there are democratic and further left-wing people pointing out much of the same, but they're genuinely ignored.

Paul has received massive coverage in comparison to Gravel and Kucinich, as a case in point.

Anyway, genuine intentions and good character aside, his economic views belong in the stone-age.
 5 years ago '05        #71
Vancouver 11 heat pts11
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 Vancouver said:
So, tell me, has social democracy in Scandinavia gone wrong? Are those countries secretly authoritarian states and the rest of the world just doesn't know it?
No one ever answers this question.
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