Why do sample-based producers get more credit?

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 5 years ago '10        #101
El Squanto 
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 pocketchange said:
I'm not knocking you, but this is why samplers get a bad name. You guys go and sample samples that have been sampled a million times and you just chop it up and in a couple places and think you got it.


You dudes are still sampling one song when people have evolved and now THEY ARE SAMPLING TWO SONGS AND COMBINING THEM TO MAKE ONE.

For example:

I did this for an artist and these are beats I did last year:




Here is another sample record I did for the same artist:

which is the whole point of my post and this topic. Those beats you posted sound good but are you telling me you had a hard time making them? I have nothing against sampling, i rarely sample but the majority of my sampled beats I can honestly say I don't think took much effort from me. What martel is talking about/ what i agree with are people who make beats like that and think they are amazing for it and other people think so as well and praise them over people who actually got real talent. Which doesn't refer to all producers that sample. At the end of the day I just try to make whatever I'm workin on sound good. Sometimes less is more, but I don't brag about things when I didn't do anything worth bragging about.
 5 years ago '10        #102
El Squanto 
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 Damagegadget said:
why is this thread still goin? did some one miss what I said ..you can not argue with the fact that on board sounds are samples too.. ..you have to arrange those like you would any sample..

[pic - click to view]



imagine thinking of all this yourself and then drawing it from scratch compared to getting all the trees and everything else in the picture already drawn and just laying them out where you want. the point is thinking of the melodies yourself is very different from altering something thats already made. This is why sampled beats often sound better than original beats, but in most occasions I bet there was more work involved in making that original beat.
 5 years ago '05        #103
Martel 18 heat pts18 OP
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 Damagegadget said:
why is this thread still goin? did some one miss what I said ..you can not argue with the fact that on board sounds are samples too.. ..you have to arrange those like you would any sample..
because you're obviously not talking about the sampling this thread is about. hans zimmer uses sound samples. that's TOTALLY different from taking a four bar loop and chopping it up. you don't arrange it the same. samples already have chord progressions, bass lines and counter melodies to make it "full". if you're making a beat from scratch you have to add that yourself. you don't have to add much to a sample because it's ALREADY there for you. no matter how much you chop it, unless it's a solo instrument.

*some* of you guys are being extremely biased. i like pocketchange from what i hear he does both well. but why would you other guys settle for less? for the love of music, why wouldn't you want to make the art people are dying to sample rather than being the one always sampling?

it's like because it's hip hop it's okay to expect less and to be less of a musician. And to the guys who keep saying hip-hop started from sampling, hip-hop also started in parties and bragging about how better you were than the next man and y'all bash that everyday so that response is wack. I'm just saying imagine how amazing our music would be with no samples and more composers. But y'all dont wanna see that. I'll just listen to my Undun CD and dream about where we could be.

[pic - click to view]



Last edited by Martel; 11-02-2012 at 11:54 AM..
 5 years ago '07        #104
Damagegadget 492 heat pts492
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 justinjones said:
what?


so if somebody used a motif,fantom or whatever. then that counts as sampling?
the on board sounds are samples..how many times do I need to say it... "if your motiff has loops in it does it count as sampling"

try again my G
 5 years ago '07        #105
Damagegadget 492 heat pts492
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 Martel said:
because you're obviously not talking about the sampling this thread is about. hans zimmer uses sound samples. that's TOTALLY different from taking a four bar loop and chopping it up. you don't arrange it the same. samples already have chord progressions, bass lines and counter melodies to make it "full". if you're making a beat from scratch you have to add that yourself. you don't have to add much to a sample because it's ALREADY there for you. no matter how much you chop it, unless it's a solo instrument.

*some* of you guys are being extremely biased. i like pocketchange from what i hear he does both well. but why would you other guys settle for less? for the love of music, why wouldn't you want to make the art people are dying to sample rather than being the one always sampling?

it's like because it's hip hop it's okay to expect less and to be less of a musician. And to the guys who keep saying hip-hop started from sampling, hip-hop also started in parties and bragging about how better you were than the next man and y'all bash that everyday so that response is wack. I'm just saying imagine how amazing our music would be with no samples and more composers. But y'all dont wanna see that. I'll just listen to my Undun CD and dream about where we could be.

[pic - click to view]

so if I chop a piano to a single note
I can't arrange it like a keyboard sound?

I can't take a bass note...low end it and play out a bassline with the sound I sampled?

we can tell those who take the looping approach in here I see

oh and did we not watch jeremy ellis vid..real easy isht right


if you not playin the instrument..stfu with the samplin is easy isht..like I said half the cats write in notes...and or are only playin a small chord progression

they are not composing symphony's

I have also defined composition which includes sampling by definition

that is fact not opinion



maybe I didn't say this but great producers do both....

Like I did say Madlib for example..has albums in which he played his own riffs to sample..

neither way is easy...you can take an easy approach to either..

in any case a good beat is a good beat...you can be mozart, but if you do not have an ear for the right sound ..your beats suck


Last edited by Damagegadget; 11-02-2012 at 12:54 PM..
 5 years ago '08        #106
TigerUppercut 
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I'm with you 100% OP. I've been preaching this for years. This is why the Neptunes will forever be the GOAT and it's why I despise Just Blaze. And sampling is using a part of another song not using a certain sound from a keyboard. fu*k all those other stupid explanations.
 5 years ago '07        #107
Damagegadget 492 heat pts492
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 El Squanto said:

[pic - click to view]



imagine thinking of all this yourself and then drawing it from scratch compared to getting all the trees and everything else in the picture already drawn and just laying them out where you want. the point is thinking of the melodies yourself is very different from altering something thats already made. This is why sampled beats often sound better than original beats, but in most occasions I bet there was more work involved in making that original beat.
sampling is not just looping.... if I also chop up multiple parts of the sample it makes a new melody..come again

a puzzle is a puzzle... not everyone can make the pieces fit..sampling..or using on board samples
 5 years ago '05        #108
Martel 18 heat pts18 OP
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 Damagegadget said:
so if I chop a piano to a single note
I can't arrange it like a keyboard sound?

I can't take a bass note...low end it and play out a bassline with the sound I sampled?

we can tell those who take the looping approach in here I see

oh and did we not watch jeremy ellis vid..real easy isht right


if you not playin the instrument..stfu with the samplin is easy isht..like I said half the cats write in notes...and or are only playin a small chord progression

they are not composing symphony's

I have also defined composition which includes sampling by definition

that is fact not opinion



maybe I didn't say this but great producers do both....

Like I did say Madlib for example..has albums in which he played his own riffs to sample..

neither way is easy...you can take an easy approach to either..

in any case a good beat is a good beat...you can be mozart, but if you do not have an ear for the right sound ..your beats suck
i said unless it's a solo instrument. i saw the video but how many RAP producers do sh*t like that? How many rappers gonna rap on that beat he did? most rap sample based producers do not chop like that. Writing in notes does not make you less talented. Plenty of composers write in notes. You think they know how to play every instrument? No, they write for other instrumentalists to play it. You act as if every sampler is sitting there with an MPC or midi controller. They clickin in too. Even small chord progressions require music theory so you can't knock it. A lot of "south/trap" producers (big name not the bedroom producer) know their way around a keyboard/piano before a sampler does. Why 'tf would you sample a piano line when you have the ability to make your own?

A long with "sampling" you're being very dense with the term composition. OBVIOUSLY we're speaking about this definition Musical composition can refer to an original piece of music. It's funny y'all keep bringing up Madlib because a multi-instrumentalist + sampler is hard to find in rap but you guys bring him up like it's common. Why ignore the fact that most sample-based producers only loop? sh*t we can point to damn near any classic Hip-Hop beat and find the song it was looped from. Dead Presidents, NY State of Mind, Everyday Struggle, Juicy etc. That's not bashing hip hop, the lack of technology made it harder for us. But we have no excuse now.

I understand that you're a hip hop head and all but c'mon. It makes no sense that someone would pick sampling over creating their own sh*t if it was harder. You're givin up rights and money all to say "Yea I flipped that sample didn't I?!". Flip your own compositions if it's that easy to come up with one.
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