Why do sample-based producers get more credit?

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 5 years ago '04        #81
pocketchange 150 heat pts150
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 Martel said:
idk man. with DAW's these days there's sh*t that chops it up automatically and everything. that's the only thing I could say was time consuming but that's about as time consuming as picking a right sound. maybe it's cause ive been doing this for 5+ years but the sh*t doesn't take any time for me.



some of em do seem to be against trap producers hard. i want to hear these guys unsampled vs sampled beats. Guys like Harry Frauds unsampled beats are terrible. I know trap producers that can sample pretty easily but I don't know too many sample based producers who can move onto all original beats.
When I first started getting into beats I was heavily influenced by the east coast soul samples, but I live in Florida now and I listen to all types of music. I easily fluctuate from both styles.

It's just that some people develop values and pride in their music and don't want to change. A lot of trap producers who do sample still use the 808s. If you tell them not to use 808 drums watch what happen.

In fact, I dare you to tell them to not use the 808 drums on a sample, watch them shut the studio down like Diddy.
 5 years ago '05        #82
Martel 18 heat pts18 OP
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 pocketchange said:
Man, if you think you can just make hit after hit after hit just looping then go ahead, what's holding you back?


Boxden just had a beat battle and everyone flipped the sample differently. You're acting like there is no competition when you are flipping samples. The competition is heavy and producers know this.

What are we really getting at here? Are we focused on what the listener like? Most of the consumers are ignorant to the technicalities if they weren't then we'd see a spike in good music but then the bar would only be raised higher, but for a short period of time we'd see a moment where the music people are making is considered good.

So, if this is just a conversation between producers, what do you mean you'll have an "easy start"? Every producer would know your a.ss just looped the sample. Which any skilled producer can do, but the listener doesn't know that.

The producers with the ears will see you aren't doing much, but to a listener you're Mozart.
to be real sampling is dying in the mainstream. people are getting sued left and right from mixtapes to albums. if you aren't Drake, sample clearing is k!llin n*ggas. Albums aren't coming out because of it. All of this can be avoided if we have more original production. More producers who take the time to learning music theory, counterpoint, orchestration or just playing by ear. I understand what you're saying the consumer doesn't care but the consumer is also scarce compared to what it used to be.

I just feel like Hip Hop has room to progress. Most of our classic albums are full of samples. I don't see any new artist nowadays coming out with something like College Dropout with damn near everything sampled. The money isn't there to do that. So consumers are left with a less solid product because producers want to rely on samples rather than composing. Imagine if these guys networked with musicians and came up with some sh*t for themselves to sample. Like the Daptones. Or hell play every instrument yourself. Sample your own music.
 5 years ago '10        #83
Ant McQueen 16 heat pts16
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 dejordan said:
the argument that what mike will and madlib do is the same because they are both technically sampling is stupid.

mike will has no original song to take a loop from. everything that goes into a song is his creation. which to someone who doesn't make rap beats that seems way harder. if i had a loop from an old song i liked i would have an easy start.
It's not as hard you would think it is nowadays. A lot of cats that make " original " beats use equipment (DAWs/VSTs & hardware) that have TONS of pads, arps, and even presets.

For example (the preset that was used for Love In This Club):

[video - click to view]

Skip to 1:27

Another example (an arpeggiator):

[video - click to view]

Skip to :50

What it all boils down to is perception. It seems like " original " beats are harder to make because we're usually unsure of the process (not knowing that the process could be insanely simple). We a.ssume that these cats are in there really crafting music the way folks did in the past since their music doesn't contain samples (not any that have to be cleared at least). When you hear a joint containing a sample (especially a familiar one) you automatically grasp some idea of the process that it took to make it. That's the difference... perception.

My thing is... whatever gets the best results... go for it.

 5 years ago '04        #84
pocketchange 150 heat pts150
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 Martel said:
to be real sampling is dying in the mainstream. people are getting sued left and right from mixtapes to albums. if you aren't Drake, sample clearing is k!llin n*ggas. Albums aren't coming out because of it. All of this can be avoided if we have more original production. More producers who take the time to learning music theory, counterpoint, orchestration or just playing by ear. I understand what you're saying the consumer doesn't care but the consumer is also scarce compared to what it used to be.

I just feel like Hip Hop has room to progress. Most of our classic albums are full of samples. I don't see any new artist nowadays coming out with something like College Dropout with damn near everything sampled. The money isn't there to do that. So consumers are left with a less solid product because producers want to rely on samples rather than composing. Imagine if these guys networked with musicians and came up with some sh*t for themselves to sample. Like the Daptones. Or hell play every instrument yourself. Sample your own music.
It's just that people want to sample hit records. And those Arpeggiators and Presets really make these so called "original records" easy to make.

But at the end of the day I feel like you should do whatever you do to get to where you want to be and never let anyone knock your accomplishments.

Many people have gotten rich just bringing the right people together, all you have to do is bring the right sounds together. No one is better than anyone, I don't believe in that. It's just that some people know more and they aren't sharing their secrets so other people have to experiment and figure out how they got that sound, but you'd be better off just doing you.


The industry is 2% talent, 98% business.
 5 years ago '05        #85
RNOTY 53 heat pts53
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2% talent & 98% business???

lol, that's an gross exaggeration. There are many talented producers (sample based and "original") that throw some sick sh*t out there, but I won't take away from any of them. they all (for the most part) are very talented. lol, more than 2%
 5 years ago '05        #86
Martel 18 heat pts18 OP
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 retroren said:
I wanna hear one of y'all make a beat using a sample since its so easy...
made this when i was like 15




hell you can go to



and tell me which was the hottest beat and i bet it'll be a sampled one. that's when i was 15 tags all annoying n sh*t wish i could find some sh*t where I really chopped it up.
 5 years ago '10        #87
El Squanto 
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you guys don't get it yo. taking something that's great and altering it into something else thats great simply does not compare to making something from nothing in most cases and a lot of producers get credit that they don't deserve. This doesn't mean producers that mainly sample are wack or don't deserve respect, but a lot of people make cookie cutter beats and think they are talented when they are just rearranging other peoples talented work and taking credit for it. Original beats require a diff kind of mind that not everyone is capable of. Can those producers create beats with the same feel as those amazing sampled beats without sampling something?
 5 years ago '04        #88
erickonasis 20 heat pts20
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TC needs a big fat glass of STFU

Sampling >>>>
 5 years ago '10        #89
El Squanto 
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 retroren said:
I wanna hear one of y'all make a beat using a sample since its so easy...







 5 years ago '10        #90
Ant McQueen 16 heat pts16
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 El Squanto said:
you guys don't get it yo. taking something that's great and altering it into something else thats great simply does not compare to making something from nothing in most cases and a lot of producers get credit that they don't deserve. This doesn't mean producers that mainly sample are wack or don't deserve respect, but a lot of people make cookie cutter beats and think they are talented when they are just rearranging other peoples talented work and taking credit for it. Original beats require a diff kind of mind that not everyone is capable of. Can those producers create beats with the same feel as those amazing sampled beats without sampling something?
The reason why a dude like Kanye is revered isn't just because of his beats, but his ability to produce and oversee a song or an entire album.

Traditionally, a producer didn't have to be a musician. It helped if they were a serviceable musician, but they didn't have to play a single note on any of the records. If you look at the credits of albums that came out decades ago it wasn't uncommon to see that the producer hadn't played or arranged any of the music, BUT he/she provided direction, coached the artists and musicians, etc.
 5 years ago '04        #91
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 El Squanto said:
you guys don't get it yo. taking something that's great and altering it into something else thats great simply does not compare to making something from nothing in most cases and a lot of producers get credit that they don't deserve. This doesn't mean producers that mainly sample are wack or don't deserve respect, but a lot of people make cookie cutter beats and think they are talented when they are just rearranging other peoples talented work and taking credit for it. Original beats require a diff kind of mind that not everyone is capable of. Can those producers create beats with the same feel as those amazing sampled beats without sampling something?
What do you mean by original though? Actually going into the studio and playing it? Or downloading a VST?

If we all have the same access to the same samples and the same VST's then the ball field is even. Play ball!


Just because someone has the sample loop as me doesn't mean he's going to loop it the same way I loop it. And just because someone has the same VST as me doesn't mean he's going to play what I play.

With that being said, a lot of these producers like Mike Will have tons and tons of sounds they can experiment with. That' another variable you guys are not looking at. Not all producers have the same resources.

Flipping samples is just as competitive as making a beat with a VST or Keyboard. WOULD YOU GUY'S PLEASE stop talking about taking a sample and looping it because we all know it's deeper than that.

Y'ALL ARE ON THE OUTSIDE LOOKING IN. It's like saying American football is harder than soccer.
 5 years ago '12        #92
The Infamous1 13 heat pts13
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It's like every single year people forget hip hop is sampling
 5 years ago '11        #93
Sinamatik CFR 6 heat pts
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I'm making a beat now chopping up a 2 bar loop, like I said before it all comes down to an effective final product, WA k is wack and dope is dope, its all up to the listeners preference and musical taste...
 5 years ago '04        #94
pocketchange 150 heat pts150
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 El Squanto said:
I'm not knocking you, but this is why samplers get a bad name. You guys go and sample samples that have been sampled a million times and you just chop it up and in a couple places and think you got it.


You dudes are still sampling one song when people have evolved and now THEY ARE SAMPLING TWO SONGS AND COMBINING THEM TO MAKE ONE.


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Last edited by pocketchange; 05-17-2013 at 04:25 PM..
 5 years ago '05        #95
Martel 18 heat pts18 OP
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beats hot but let me hear somethin unsampled. not dissing or anything but what if somebody comes up to you and say yea i want somethin that hot but i dont wanna have to clear a sample. do you have that?


Last edited by Martel; 11-02-2012 at 10:47 AM..
 5 years ago '04        #96
pocketchange 150 heat pts150
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 Martel said:
beats hot but let me hear somethin unsampled. not dissing or anything but what if somebody comes up to you and say yea i want somethin that hot but i dont wanna have to clear a sample. do you have that?
 5 years ago '05        #97
Martel 18 heat pts18 OP
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 pocketchange said:
beat tough doesn't really sound complex but you tellin me those sampled beats took more?
 5 years ago '04        #98
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 Martel said:
beat tough doesn't really sound complex but you tellin me those sampled beats took more?
I would say it's about the same. When it comes to sampling you have to actually dig and find gems and then decide how you want to flip it so even if someone found the original sample they'd never know it was that sample or they'd still be perplexed about how you actually sampled it.


When it come to beats with no samples, it's all about trying to find a melody. I don't force it I just fu*k with it and if nothing comes along I'll switch over to sampling, and if I cna't find a sample I switch back over.
 5 years ago '07        #99
Damagegadget 492 heat pts492
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why is this thread still goin? did some one miss what I said ..you can not argue with the fact that on board sounds are samples too.. ..you have to arrange those like you would any sample..
 5 years ago '04        #100
justinjones 307 heat pts307
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 Damagegadget said:
why is this thread still goin? did some one miss what I said ..you can not argue with the fact that on board sounds are samples too.. ..you have to arrange those like you would any sample..
what?


so if somebody used a motif,fantom or whatever. then that counts as sampling?
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