Why do sample-based producers get more credit?

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 6 years ago '04        #41
MegaTON 22 heat pts22
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albums with samples are generally better, end the discussion, and mannie fresh being the best of all time? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
 6 years ago '04        #42
bony 37 heat pts37
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 Martel said:
i produce, sampling is easy and it isn't an achievement. you can't call it your own song. I compose and have sampled and I make way more wack composed beats than sampled. Pick a great song to sample from, chop it up a little and most likely it'll be dope because the original song was dope. Hip hop isn't rock or jazz but it can be as skillful. I dont understand how any person with a musical background would not want better. We need more creativeness and more interacting with musicians. If we can have



over taking somebody elses art and reusing it over and over you're telling me you'd pick sampling? Producers are being lazy. Can you imagine how great this music would sound if we had more bands like the Roots?
you dont know what youre talking about... first off roots sample mad sh*t, but they use live instruments, so that confuses people like you.. youre not grasping this HIP HOP thing, hip hop is sampling... and just because somebody picks a great song doenst mean its gonna be a great sampled finished product.. ive sampled tracks that nobodys ever heard of, they had no musical significance, but i made them into my own unrecognizable original DOPE compositions.. so enough with this anti sampling..


Last edited by bony; 11-01-2012 at 12:15 PM..
 6 years ago '09        #43
klm1015 10 heat pts10
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 bony said:
you dont know what youre talking about... first off roots sample mad sh*t, but they use live instruments, so that confuses people like you.. youre not grasping this HIP HOP thing, hip hop is sampling... and just because somebody picks a great song doenst mean its gonna be a great sampled finished product.. ive sampled tracks that nobodys ever heard of, they had no musical significance, but i made them into my own unrecognizable original compositions.. so enough with this anti sampling..
 6 years ago '04        #44
pocketchange 160 heat pts160
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Of course if you study the game you'll be educated and it won't be a trick to you anymore. I know deep down inside you think it's wrong, but you have to do what you have to do to get to where you need to be. Ain't no ethical codes in this game, take advantage, take advantage.


Like I said, those ARP's are worse than samples, but those trap producers love using them. Press one key and it'll play the whole tune for you, and it is what it is. Be first, get yours brother.

You think Polo Da Don regret sampling those royal free sounds? No, everyone thought they were wack, but he was able to look pass that and made something hot.


Last edited by pocketchange; 11-01-2012 at 12:31 PM..
 6 years ago '11        #45
retroren 
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I produce and to be honest sampling ain't as easy as u think. Sampling can sound like sh*t if the beat isn't composed right. Kanye for example samples pretty much all of his sh*t, but the sampling technique he uses and all the different samples he blend along with the drums and whatever else he uses, that sh*t ain't nowhere near as easy as lets say a Young Chop or Lex Luger can create a 4 bar melody from scratch and loop it. Any person can without any musical background can load up a VST or wav sound and create a 4 bar melodic loop.
 6 years ago '04        #46
bony 37 heat pts37
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 retroren said:
I produce and to be honest sampling ain't as easy as u think. Sampling can sound like sh*t if the beat isn't composed right. Kanye for example samples pretty much all of his sh*t, but the sampling technique he uses and all the different samples he blend along with the drums and whatever else he uses, that sh*t ain't nowhere near as easy as lets say a Young Chop or Lex Luger can create a 4 bar melody from scratch and loop it. Any person can without any musical background can load up a VST or wav sound and create a 4 bar melodic loop.
totally true.. so if people are having a tough time with accepting sampling, it's because they are NOT utilizing the samples properly... like you said, anybody can make a 4 bar loop, but can you take that loop and add samples from other songs as well as your own additional production... sampling is what rza and pete rock and price paul and kanye do, they arent just looping
 6 years ago '05        #47
OG T Gutta N 10 heat pts10
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^Kanye loops the sh*t out of samples

They dont by a large margin , most producers who get placements aren't heavily relying on samples.

You've got n*ggas in here justifying sampling through digital conversion of live instruments , as if a VST has any melodic value or structure to it (outside the arp, and even then , still requires composition). Sampling is another creative way to produce , but imo less respected in terms of originality.

At the end of the day , samples we're created through original composition. It takes more skill to compose music from scratch , than using chops of music that contain various melodies , sounds , that otherwise , would take the producer , 2 tracks to produce ( your original , then sampling ).

Does it sound better? Depends on you're vibe , but a dope original track > sampled.

Imagine the skill it'd take to create Kanyes' touch the sky , or Just Blaze You dont know without the samples. That should give you an idea the relative ease that comes with sampling , in terms of final product.
 6 years ago '04        #48
pocketchange 160 heat pts160
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I'd rather hear a sampled beat than listening to VST's on a trap beat.
 6 years ago '11        #49
retroren 
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 Cantankerous said:
^Kanye loops the sh*t out of samples

They dont by a large margin , most producers who get placements aren't heavily relying on samples.

You've got n*ggas in here justifying sampling through digital conversion of live instruments , as if a VST has any melodic value or structure to it (outside the arp, and even then , still requires composition). Sampling is another creative way to produce , but imo less respected in terms of originality.

At the end of the day , samples we're created through original composition. It takes more skill to compose music from scratch , than using chops of music that contain various melodies , sounds , that otherwise , would take the producer , 2 tracks to produce ( your original , then sampling ).

Does it sound better? Depends on you're vibe , but a dope original track > sampled.

Imagine the skill it'd take to create Kanyes' touch the sky , or Just Blaze You dont know without the samples. That should give you an idea the relative ease that comes with sampling , in terms of final product.
But can a Lex Luger or a Southside make a Touch The Sky or You don't know? It ain't as simple as just loading up a sample and looping it then u got a beat. If u listen to most of the newer 808 producers, all the sh*t sound similar because they are using the same drum kits and damn near the same drum patterns. Its still not easy to do that sh*t either, but sampling like a Premo or a Kanye or even a Dr. Dre takes skill that alot of n*ggas will never have. People in the music game know that, thats why they get 250K per track vs like a Sonny Digital getting 5K-10K per track
 6 years ago '05        #50
OG T Gutta N 10 heat pts10
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 retroren said:
But can a Lex Luger or a Southside make a Touch The Sky or You don't know? It ain't as simple as just loading up a sample and looping it then u got a beat. If u listen to most of the newer 808 producers, all the sh*t sound similar because they are using the same drum kits and damn near the same drum patterns. Its still not easy to do that sh*t either, but sampling like a Premo or a Kanye or even a Dr. Dre takes skill that alot of n*ggas will never have. People in the music game know that, thats why they get 250K per track vs like a Sonny Digital getting 5K-10K per track
I highly doubt it but they're relatively new producers. But that makes little sense , because the question is , can Ye' or Blaze make the same songs without the samples as well? I'm not talking trap vs sampling , simply the art.

I'm not saying sampling is easy , but as far as a quality from original vs sample , its' obvious that sampling is the easier form of producing.

Dre , Premo , Kanye get 250K a track because they are hit producers , who relied on sampling at a strategic point when people we're hardly had to clear samples. They touched a sh*tload of samples. Without the samples , where would they be? Are their original composition just as good as their sampling ability? Nope.

I'm not knocking either , I respect both forms , does sample music sound better? Mostly in hiphop , but where does it come from? Original composition.

At the end of the day , if original composition from hiphop sucks in comparison to sampling, and sampling is an easy way out of producing and combining instruments , it isn't sampling > original , its' hiphop producers suck at producing music.

Not to mention , sampling is only put on the high horse due to NY influence. Producers need to step up their composition skills.
 6 years ago '07        #51
Playa 70 heat pts70
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It would be amazing if producers spent the time and energy to go to the studio, write and compose original music and used live instrumentation to record it or programmed it into the cpu. That takes a lot of resources though and hip hop is too cheap for that. If rap music was made like Soul music was in the 60s, 70s, and 80s how would it sound?
 6 years ago '10        #52
Ant McQueen 17 heat pts17
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I've never heard of any producers getting more credit than another solely because they sample, but I have heard producers that sample more often than not get a lot of credit because of their discographies.
 6 years ago '07        #53
Damagegadget 493 heat pts493
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 pocketchange said:
Playing an apprigator, that's just about as worse as sampling.
you make beats?
 6 years ago '07        #54
Damagegadget 493 heat pts493
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I mean isht half these fruity loop cats write in the notes anyways..they are not playing out the sounds so...


some people will never get it though...mainly those who can't sample..or do not make beats...all who don't sample and/or make beats in here

raise your hand




















now sit down and stfu do not speak on what you do not have experience in :chucklol


secondly if your not playin the instrument...your still playin a sample
 6 years ago '07        #55
Damagegadget 493 heat pts493
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 Nyuzi said:
It would be amazing if producers spent the time and energy to go to the studio, write and compose original music and used live instrumentation to record it or programmed it into the cpu. That takes a lot of resources though and hip hop is too cheap for that. If rap music was made like Soul music was in the 60s, 70s, and 80s how would it sound?
you know madlib a sampling producer has been doin this right?
 6 years ago '10        #56
Ant McQueen 17 heat pts17
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 Cantankerous said:
I highly doubt it but they're relatively new producers. But that makes little sense , because the question is , can Ye' or Blaze make the same songs without the samples as well? I'm not talking trap vs sampling , simply the art.

I'm not saying sampling is easy , but as far as a quality from original vs sample , its' obvious that sampling is the easier form of producing.

Dre , Premo , Kanye get 250K a track because they are hit producers , who relied on sampling at a strategic point when people we're hardly had to clear samples. They touched a sh*tload of samples. Without the samples , where would they be? Are their original composition just as good as their sampling ability? Nope.

I'm not knocking either , I respect both forms , does sample music sound better? Mostly in hiphop , but where does it come from? Original composition.

At the end of the day , if original composition from hiphop sucks in comparison to sampling, and sampling is an easy way out of producing and combining instruments , it isn't sampling > original , its' hiphop producers suck at producing music.

Not to mention , sampling is only put on the high horse due to NY influence. Producers need to step up their composition skills.
I agree with a lot of what you said but the bolded. In other genres (and traditionally) producers and composers don't always wear the same hat.
 6 years ago '07        #57
Damagegadget 493 heat pts493
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 Cantankerous said:
I highly doubt it but they're relatively new producers. But that makes little sense , because the question is , can Ye' or Blaze make the same songs without the samples as well? I'm not talking trap vs sampling , simply the art.

I'm not saying sampling is easy , but as far as a quality from original vs sample , its' obvious that sampling is the easier form of producing.

Dre , Premo , Kanye get 250K a track because they are hit producers , who relied on sampling at a strategic point when people we're hardly had to clear samples. They touched a sh*tload of samples. Without the samples , where would they be? Are their original composition just as good as their sampling ability? Nope.

I'm not knocking either , I respect both forms , does sample music sound better? Mostly in hiphop , but where does it come from? Original composition.

At the end of the day , if original composition from hiphop sucks in comparison to sampling, and sampling is an easy way out of producing and combining instruments , it isn't sampling > original , its' hiphop producers suck at producing music.

Not to mention , sampling is only put on the high horse due to NY influence. Producers need to step up their composition skills.
cant normally you have good reasoning and knowledge... but you know you can chop samples up too right? People think sampling is all looping and isht..


do you make beats?

and these ninjas again are not composing symphony's they are generally using the same cords... but while we here lets take a look at vids...post a non sample producer and Ill post some jeremy ellis isht



[video - click to view]

real easy right

things are what ya make them..I used to joke people for writing in notes in fruity loops..but it is not easy to make beats that sound good in any fashion..

furthermore lets define composition

1. the act of combining parts or elements to form a whole.
2. the resulting state or product.
3. manner of being composed; structure: This painting has an orderly composition.
4. makeup; constitution: His moral composition was impeccable.
5. an aggregate material formed from two or more substances: a composition of silver and tin.



/threadly


Last edited by Damagegadget; 11-01-2012 at 01:26 PM..
 6 years ago '05        #58
Martel 21 heat pts21 OP
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 bony said:
you dont know what youre talking about... first off roots sample mad sh*t, but they use live instruments, so that confuses people like you.. youre not grasping this HIP HOP thing, hip hop is sampling... and just because somebody picks a great song doenst mean its gonna be a great sampled finished product.. ive sampled tracks that nobodys ever heard of, they had no musical significance, but i made them into my own unrecognizable original DOPE compositions.. so enough with this anti sampling..
the roots don't sample a lot. they have sampled but the majority of there sh*t is all original. the whole point is they don't RELY only on samples. You Got Me is one of there biggest songs and it has no samples at all. Hip Hop is sampling because it started with a lack of instruments and understanding. The youth were behind the creation of hip hop and they didn't have recording studios nor orchestras. TECHNOLOGY has advanced. No longer are we recording raps off cassette tapes. Why can't our production advance also? What's wrong for me wanting progression? Okay sampling is awesome but I still do not understand why anyone would want to be limited by it.

 Cantankerous said:
^Kanye loops the sh*t out of samples

They dont by a large margin , most producers who get placements aren't heavily relying on samples.

You've got n*ggas in here justifying sampling through digital conversion of live instruments , as if a VST has any melodic value or structure to it (outside the arp, and even then , still requires composition). Sampling is another creative way to produce , but imo less respected in terms of originality.

At the end of the day , samples we're created through original composition. It takes more skill to compose music from scratch , than using chops of music that contain various melodies , sounds , that otherwise , would take the producer , 2 tracks to produce ( your original , then sampling ).

Does it sound better? Depends on you're vibe , but a dope original track > sampled.

Imagine the skill it'd take to create Kanyes' touch the sky , or Just Blaze You dont know without the samples. That should give you an idea the relative ease that comes with sampling , in terms of final product.
that's all im tryna say.

 Nyuzi said:
It would be amazing if producers spent the time and energy to go to the studio, write and compose original music and used live instrumentation to record it or programmed it into the cpu. That takes a lot of resources though and hip hop is too cheap for that. If rap music was made like Soul music was in the 60s, 70s, and 80s how would it sound?
It does take resources but not nearly as much as it used to. There's thousands of rock bands, hip hop can do the same thing. I just think it's lazy to standstill and not want to deviate from heavy sampling onto creating your own. Somebody said throw a trap producer infront of an instrument and they won't be able to play anything. You can say the same about most sample based producers. Most trap producers including Young Chop, Zaytoven, Drumma know how to work a piano so I'm confused about that. I know many sample guys who "click" in their beats.

The thing as a producer I'm fu*king with is sampling my own compositions. I've studied both guitar and piano and I feel like more "beatmakers" should strive to be musicians. Maybe I'm wrong in my thinking. Some of my favorite beats were sampled but I idolize actual musicians, ie Prince, Curtis Mayfield, Willie Hutch, etc. That's what I wanna be, fu*k being the next Alchemist.

 pocketchange said:
Playing an apprigator, that's just about as worse as sampling.
Arps are if they're pre-made. I know a lot of people who program them themselves idk about "trap producers" though.
 6 years ago '04        #59
pocketchange 160 heat pts160
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 Damagegadget said:
I mean isht half these fruity loop cats write in the notes anyways..they are not playing out the sounds so...


some people will never get it though...mainly those who can't sample..or do not make beats...all who don't sample and/or make beats in here

raise your hand



now sit down and stfu do not speak on what you do not have experience in :chucklol


secondly if your not playin the instrument...your still playin a sample
The thing about writing the notes in instead of playing them on a midi keyboard is, you don't get the realistic velocity of actually playing a real instrument. You can play with the velocity, but it's easier just to play it on a midi keyboard. And yeah, I do production.
 6 years ago '05        #60
Martel 21 heat pts21 OP
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 Damagegadget said:
I mean isht half these fruity loop cats write in the notes anyways..they are not playing out the sounds so...


some people will never get it though...mainly those who can't sample..or do not make beats...all who don't sample and/or make beats in here

raise your hand




















now sit down and stfu do not speak on what you do not have experience in :chucklol


secondly if your not playin the instrument...your still playin a sample
i started off sampling because I didn't know how to play instruments. most producers start off sampling. I can post a sampled beat up now if you think I have no experience with it. Sampling can be creative. I've sampled the "Snuggie" song and created a totally different sh*t and I've sampled "Goo Punch" and did wild sh*t with it. That's creativity. Timbaland sampling a baby is creativity. Most of the sampling right now just isn't all that creative to me. Like in one thread somebody was calling KRIT's production for 4eva in a day was more creative than Good Kid MAAD City. Krit's cool but he mostly loops. Knowing how much it takes to loop vs creating up your own melodies and chord progressions I know which one is less time consuming. KRIT drops an album with no samples and the same people hate it. Now if KRIT had been composing from the start we'd have an amazing album matching his amazing mixtapes. I don't see why you guys are okaying crippling yourself?
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