Kobe responds to criticism of not being a good teammate.

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Props Slaps
 5 years ago '12        #41
Ching king 11 heat pts11
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 Kastanova said:
He couldn't even get out the first round in his and their prime

WHILE

Lebron is in his prime with the 2nd best SG in the league and a top 5PF in the league winning with other STARS in his prime.

Not to mention none of them were as bad as Smush or Kwame

PS:

66%>>>33%

Checkmate






















YOUNG!
"I got a goal, and it's a huge goal, and that's to bring an NBA championship here to Cleveland, and I won't stop until I get it." -Lebron Jame$


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Last edited by Ching king; 10-14-2012 at 01:38 AM..
 10-14-2012, 01:38 AM         #42
SeaJaiye  OP
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 I'm The Dan said:

Poor Bron stans talking about how Bron going to write Kobe out of the record books with his one and only ring. That clown aint getting no more rings.
just like he wasn't getting any last year?

lakers got a 40 yr old that never been to the finals and a 26 yr old career loser that cares more bout living in LA than playing for LA

if kobe gets carried to the finals again, bron will win and will erase him out the history books. deal wit it
 5 years ago '09        #43
That Guy Fly 21 heat pts21
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He did bring that NBA Championship to Cleveland, it just wasn't for Cleveland
 5 years ago '12        #44
Fearless Genius 72 heat pts72
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 maxnn said:
This is called role player syndrome. When a role player is no longer on a contender, he is still the same player, but people think they have gotten a lot worse. In odom's case, he got a lot worse because he quit on the mavs.

But the Lamar Odom with the lakers and the Lamar Odom with the Clippers and the heat were the same player. The only difference was that LO wasn't getting high with the lakers like he was with the clippers. But LO didn't actually improve when he went to the lakers. He stayed the same.

Did you know that Ariza at age 22 put up the same exact #s with a much higher FG% the magic as he did in the year kobe allegedly made him better? No because again, instead of being a role player for a title team, he was a role player on a first round exit team.
role player syndrome? so we're just going to make up sh*t and pass it on like it's a fact. LO didn't improve? did you just look at a career stat box and make that a.ssertion? he was definitely a better player as a laker. i don't care much about numbers but here are some better numbers that actually put thinks in context. lamar odom played 7 out of his 13 going on 14 years as a laker. if you look at his top 7 offensive seasons based on a stat called offensive rating (you can find on basketball reference), they were all in a laker uniform and by a healthy margin i might add.

his average offensive rating during his laker career was 111.3. throughout the rest of his career it was 97.7. and his defensive rating according to the numbers was actually the same both as a laker and as a non laker. which if you actually put the numbers in context, he was a better defender in LA. why? because in LA he mostly played the 4 where as a non-laker he was playing the 3. he was playing out of position defensively being outmatched and outsized while still posting the same defensive ratings.

and let's not forget to mention that as a laker, odom's usage% were at career lows. despite that, he still put up a 5.6 average on the win share column as a laker. (win share correlates positively with minutes played and usage%). where as a non-laker despite getting more minutes he only put up a average win share of 3.6.

and seriously your ariza comment is so dumb. ariza was playing garbage minutes in orlando. and why the hell do you just look at fg%? his role changed in L.A. he attempted 191 threes during that full season as a laker where he only attempted 7 during that year in orlando. he became a spot up shooter in LA which he wasn't in orlando. and ariza still posted better offensive and defensive ratings than he did in orlando and nearly doubled his win share compared to his next best season in his only full season with the lakers.

long story short, you're wrong and kobe makes the game easier for his teammates and makes them better players (yes, those are two different things)




  147 - 42 STRK: 5 w in a row WIN PCT: 77% 19 (0) 
  Career: | Aug 17: 97-57, Rank #29 | Aug 16: 2-0, Rank #224 | Aug 14: 11-8, Rank #285 | Aug 13: 1-0, Rank #480 *


Last edited by Fearless Genius; 10-14-2012 at 02:45 AM..
 5 years ago '05        #45
I'm The Dan 7 heat pts
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 SeaJaiye said:
just like he wasn't getting any last year?

lakers got a 40 yr old that never been to the finals and a 26 yr old career loser that cares more bout living in LA than playing for LA

if kobe gets carried to the finals again, bron will win and will erase him out the history books. deal wit it


Thanks for the props, man. I told you that I was going to snitch on that sh*t, so I'm letting Ronnie know. He already told me that he hates when people be spoiling sh*t on this site so good luck with the boss.

 5 years ago '11        #46
maxnn 129 heat pts129
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 EnlightenMe said:
role player syndrome? so we're just going to make up sh*t and pass it on like it's a fact. LO didn't improve? did you just look at a career stat box and make that a.ssertion? he was definitely a better player as a laker. i don't care much about numbers but here are some better numbers that actually put thinks in context. lamar odom played 7 out of his 13 going on 14 years as a laker. if you look at his top 7 offensive seasons based on a stat called offensive rating (you can find on basketball reference), they were all in a laker uniform and by a healthy margin i might add.

his average offensive rating during his laker career was 111.3. throughout the rest of his career it was 97.7. and his defensive rating according to the numbers was actually the same both as a laker and as a non laker. which if you actually put the numbers in context, he was a better defender in LA. why? because in LA he mostly played the 4 where as a non-laker he was playing the 3. he was playing out of position defensively being outmatched and outsized while still posting the same defensive ratings.

and let's not forget to mention that as a laker, odom's usage% were at career lows. despite that, he still put up a 5.6 average on the win share column as a laker. where as a non-laker despite getting more minutes he only put up a average win share of 3.6.

and seriously your ariza comment is so dumb. ariza was playing garbage minutes in orlando while also playing considerably less minutes. ariza posted better offensive and defensive ratings than he did in orlando and nearly doubled his win share compared to his next best season in his only full season with the lakers.
I'll admit, i'm not familiar with the offensive and defensive ratings stats but a lot of Odom's struggles early can be attributed to the fact that he was smoking his career away. But, the second highest PER of his career occured in a clipper uniform. the 3rd highest occured when he was a member of the heat.

Ariza played 22 mpg with the magic in 07, 24 with the lakers in 09. Not "considerably less minutes."

Again, i'll admit, i'm not familiar with the offensive and defensive ratings stats, but i am familiar with win shares, and while ariza did double his WS, his WS per 48 minutes only went up by .018 (doesn't seem like a lot.) Meanwhile, the highest PER of Ariza's career occured when he was with the magic. Same with his eFG%, and his TS%.

And ariza becoming a bad 3 point shooter is a good thing?

And role player syndrome may not be an actual term, but it is very real. Role players are viewed entirely based on the team they play for. Look at reggie evans. He was finally getting credit last year for doing things he has been doing his entire career but he was never on a very good team before.


Last edited by maxnn; 10-14-2012 at 02:09 AM..
 5 years ago '12        #47
Fearless Genius 72 heat pts72
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 maxnn said:
I'll admit, i'm not familiar with the offensive and defensive ratings stats
a lot of Odom's struggles early can be attributed to the fact that he was smoking his career away. But, the second highest PER of his career occured in a clipper uniform. the 3rd highest occured when he was a member of the heat.

Ariza played 22 mpg with the magic in 07, 24 with the lakers in 09. Not "considerably less minutes."

Again, i'll admit, i'm not familiar with the offensive and defensive ratings stats, but i am familiar with win shares, and while ariza did double his WS, his WS per 48 minutes only went up by .018 (doesn't seem like a lot.) Meanwhile, the highest PER of Ariza's career occured when he was with the magic. Same with his eFG%, and his TS%.

And him becoming a bad 3 point shooter is a good thing?

Long story short, you didn't prove one damn thing, and i can site advanced stats to prove my point also.
let me school you a little bit on PER and why it's a horrible stat. first, PER has a highly positive relationship with usage%. so the more you are used aka the number of possessions you take up (fga, a.ssists, turnovers, etc.) the higher your PER is in general, even if your higher rate of usage has a significant decline in efficiency. lamar posted his lowest usage percentages as a laker. so it's not a surprise that his second best season, according to PER, came as a non-laker. secondly, good statistical models make predictions accurately. when you put PER when predicting the outcome of individual games (using a total team PER) PER predicts wins and losses at less than a 35% rate. good statisical models make predictions at a 95% rate. basically you're better off flipping a coin than using PER to predict wins and losses. it's a really sh*tty statistical model and there are articles online that go into detail about this.

now on to the ariza point. that increase in win share is significant especially for a role player. secondly eFG% and TS% are good measures of shooting efficiency but not perfect. they don't account for where the shots are coming on the floor. it doesn't differentiate between layups and long two's. so it's good but not perfect. especially when you consider how his role and shot availability changed between orlando and LA, those numbers aren't fair comparisons to make. but with that being said, his percentages are still fairly close.

and ariza wasn't a bad three point shooter. he was a decent or okay one. but ariza was never there for offense. he was there for defense. but basketball isn't hockey where you can make subs during game play. ariza has to play offense too when he is on the floor. and he was a fairly efficient offensive player as a laker, especially considering the shots he took as a laker. you can't just look at percentages, you have to look at attempts too. he never took enough attempts to really hurt the lakers offense even though his percentages weren't great. but the lakers got the best out of him offensively and defensively as they could.




  147 - 42 STRK: 5 w in a row WIN PCT: 77% 19 (0) 
  Career: | Aug 17: 97-57, Rank #29 | Aug 16: 2-0, Rank #224 | Aug 14: 11-8, Rank #285 | Aug 13: 1-0, Rank #480 *


Last edited by Fearless Genius; 10-14-2012 at 02:47 AM..
 5 years ago '06        #48
PG-13 126 heat pts126
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 Klasicktha1 said:
Kobe the realest nucca in the NBA....
 Ching king said:
"I got a goal, and it's a huge goal, and that's to bring an NBA championship here to Cleveland, and I won't stop until I get it." -Lebron Jame$


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Both joined Oct 2012

I wonder who's alias' these are
 5 years ago '11        #49
maxnn 129 heat pts129
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 EnlightenMe said:
let me school you a little bit on PER and why it's a horrible stat. first, PER has a highly positive relationship with usage%. so the more you are used, the higher your PER is in general, even if your higher rate of usage has a significant decline in efficiency. lamar posted his lowest usage percentages as a laker. so it's not a surpirse that his second best season, according to PER, came as a non laker. secondly, good statistical models make predictions accurately. when you put PER when predicting the outcome of individual games (using a total team PER) PER predicts wins and losses at less than a 35% rate. good statisical models make predictions at a 95% rate. basically you're better off flipping a coin than using PER to predict wins and losses. it's a really sh*tty statistical model and there are articles online that go into detail about this.

now on to the ariza point. that increase in win share is significant especially for a role player. secondly eFG% and TS% are good measures of shooting efficiency but not perfect. they don't account for where the shots are coming on the floor. it doesn't differentiate between layups and long two's. so it's good but not perfect. especially when you consider how his role and shot availability changed between orlando and LA, those numbers aren't fair comparisons to make. but with that being said, his percentages are still fairly close.

and ariza wasn't a bad three point shooter. he was a decent or okay one. but ariza was never there for offense. he was there for defense. but basketball isn't hockey where you can make subs during game play. ariza has to play offense too when he is on the floor. and he was a fairly efficient offensive player as a laker, especially considering the shots he took as a laker. you can't just look at percentages, you have to look at attempts too. he never took enough attempts to really hurt the lakers offense even though his percentages weren't great. but the lakers got the best out of him offensively and defensively as they could.
I'm too tired right now to make a full rebuttal, i'll do that in the morning if this topic is still hot. But, i will say that according to b-r's defensive rating system that you cited, Ariza had the worst defensive rating of his career with the lakers.

I would have to do more research to see if .018 increase is significant like you say. Ariza got hurt in 07, which is why he only played 57 games, which is why the total win shares are higher with the lakers


Last edited by maxnn; 10-14-2012 at 02:24 AM..
 5 years ago '04        #50
luv4music 7 heat pts
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Be real about it

Who the fu*k did he elevate?

After Shaq left, he couldn't elevate a toaster with the power on

Then Pau came and he won two more



 5 years ago '12        #51
Fearless Genius 72 heat pts72
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 maxnn said:
I'm too tired right now to make a full rebuttal, i'll do that in the morning if this topic is still hot. But, i will say that according to b-r's defensive rating system that you cited, Ariza had the worst defensive rating of his career with the lakers.
no, he had the best of his career. it's an estimation of how many points you give up per 100 possessions. so the lower the number the better on defensive rating.




  147 - 42 STRK: 5 w in a row WIN PCT: 77% 19 (0) 
  Career: | Aug 17: 97-57, Rank #29 | Aug 16: 2-0, Rank #224 | Aug 14: 11-8, Rank #285 | Aug 13: 1-0, Rank #480 *
 5 years ago '11        #52
maxnn 129 heat pts129
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 EnlightenMe said:
no, he had the best. it's an estimation of how many points you give up per 100 possessions. so the lower the number the better on defensive rating.
Oh, i see. I'm usually pretty good with these stats, i have never seen that one before.

I would have to do more research to see if .018 increase is significant like you say. Ariza got hurt in 07, which is why he only played 57 games, which is why the total win shares are higher with the lakers


Last edited by maxnn; 10-14-2012 at 02:27 AM..
 5 years ago '12        #53
Fearless Genius 72 heat pts72
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 maxnn said:
Oh, i see. I'm usually pretty good with these stats, i have never seen that one before.
it's cool. basketball-reference has a ton of stats on there most people don't know about. they give explanations of them too if you want to learn what they mean.




  147 - 42 STRK: 5 w in a row WIN PCT: 77% 19 (0) 
  Career: | Aug 17: 97-57, Rank #29 | Aug 16: 2-0, Rank #224 | Aug 14: 11-8, Rank #285 | Aug 13: 1-0, Rank #480 *
 5 years ago '12        #54
Ching king 11 heat pts11
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Kobe on that GOAT sh*t though.

My n*gga need to write a book on success.

And a "How to get women" manual so #6 stop gettin turned down by white bi*ches at the Olympic games in front of all the homies.

 5 years ago '11        #55
maxnn 129 heat pts129
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 EnlightenMe said:
it's cool. basketball-reference has a ton of stats on there most people don't know about. they give explanations of them too if you want to learn what they mean.
I usually use hoopdata for the advanced stats, nba.com for the basic ones. When i saw the people who visit b-r had wilt ranked in the 200s i was like when it came to using that site regularly.
 5 years ago '12        #56
Fearless Genius 72 heat pts72
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 maxnn said:
I would have to do more research to see if .018 increase is significant like you say. Ariza got hurt in 07, which is why he only played 57 games, which is why the total win shares are higher with the lakers
it is. and his total win shares would still be higher with the lakers if he played the same number of games in both seasons if his win shares per 48 for that '07 season stayed the same.




  147 - 42 STRK: 5 w in a row WIN PCT: 77% 19 (0) 
  Career: | Aug 17: 97-57, Rank #29 | Aug 16: 2-0, Rank #224 | Aug 14: 11-8, Rank #285 | Aug 13: 1-0, Rank #480 *


Last edited by Fearless Genius; 10-14-2012 at 02:40 AM..
 5 years ago '12        #57
Fearless Genius 72 heat pts72
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 maxnn said:
I usually use hoopdata for the advanced stats, nba.com for the basic ones. When i saw the people who visit b-r had wilt ranked in the 200s i was like when it came to using that site regularly.
yea hoopdata is good too. the whole ranking thing on basketball-reference is fan voting. it has nothing to do with the editors of the site ranking players as they see it according to a formula or anything like that. but yea, the fan voting is idiotic.




  147 - 42 STRK: 5 w in a row WIN PCT: 77% 19 (0) 
  Career: | Aug 17: 97-57, Rank #29 | Aug 16: 2-0, Rank #224 | Aug 14: 11-8, Rank #285 | Aug 13: 1-0, Rank #480 *
 5 years ago '12        #58
Kastanova 91 heat pts91
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 luv4music said:
Be real about it

Who the fu*k did he elevate?

After Shaq left, he couldn't elevate a toaster with the power on

Then Pau came and he won two more



That's still 4 more games he won with a sh*tty team before Pau came more victories then the Knicks had this whole past decade..

Checkmate.
 10-14-2012, 06:32 AM         #59
ManWithoutFear!  OP
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I didnt like Shaqs book like that cause he came off as a Baby Huey a.ss n*gga. But his Kobe stories were hilarious! The one about him freestyling on the bus & Shaq telling him that sh*ts written!
"No its not! This off the top of the dome!"
sh*t had me in tears.
 5 years ago '11        #60
cimeon24 
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 EnlightenMe said:
let me school you a little bit on PER and why it's a horrible stat. first, PER has a highly positive relationship with usage%. so the more you are used aka the number of possessions you take up (fga, a.ssists, turnovers, etc.) the higher your PER is in general, even if your higher rate of usage has a significant decline in efficiency. lamar posted his lowest usage percentages as a laker. so it's not a surprise that his second best season, according to PER, came as a non-laker. secondly, good statistical models make predictions accurately. when you put PER when predicting the outcome of individual games (using a total team PER) PER predicts wins and losses at less than a 35% rate. good statisical models make predictions at a 95% rate. basically you're better off flipping a coin than using PER to predict wins and losses. it's a really sh*tty statistical model and there are articles online that go into detail about this.

now on to the ariza point. that increase in win share is significant especially for a role player. secondly eFG% and TS% are good measures of shooting efficiency but not perfect. they don't account for where the shots are coming on the floor. it doesn't differentiate between layups and long two's. so it's good but not perfect. especially when you consider how his role and shot availability changed between orlando and LA, those numbers aren't fair comparisons to make. but with that being said, his percentages are still fairly close.

and ariza wasn't a bad three point shooter. he was a decent or okay one. but ariza was never there for offense. he was there for defense. but basketball isn't hockey where you can make subs during game play. ariza has to play offense too when he is on the floor. and he was a fairly efficient offensive player as a laker, especially considering the shots he took as a laker. you can't just look at percentages, you have to look at attempts too. he never took enough attempts to really hurt the lakers offense even though his percentages weren't great. but the lakers got the best out of him offensively and defensively as they could.
is that Kobe or coaching. having Phil Jackson who is made a reputation of utilizing and maximizing the talent he has. when I watched any Lakers games especially in that title run. Odom opened up more stuff for Kobe than Kobe opened up any thing for him. Ariza was a role player that caught fire at the right time. jus Jamal Posey when Boston won. Kobe is a great player but he never elevates anybody...,... how can he? when he rarely passes the ball and when the team is losing all he is going to do is jack up shots and act like a complete as*hole to his teammates.
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