Aug 29 - Bill Nye The Science Guy Rips On American's Who Teach Creationism To Children

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 5 years ago '06        #201
nightmare 429 heat pts429
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 Kadillac87 said:
That's the point of this thread. Science proves God didn't create the world. Nothing has been proven. Saying there is way more evidence supporting science is not entirely true. There's method that produce a young earth and there's methods that produce an old earth. This is not a young earth vs old earth argument though. This is, I believe my a.ssumptions are valid, so I will discredit anything that goes against it. Same thing you say religious people do. Both rely on a.ssumptions. Both discredit things that don't fall within in their beliefs.
again thats not my argument, ur taking wat other ppl sed and putting into my argument. im simply saying that i theres much more to work with in science, than in faith. u can say anythiing and as long as you claim faith it technically cant be disproven

i could have faith that the lollipop dragon from the other side of the universe, is gonna come and ascend us all to heaven one day. is that outlandish? YES. but can u absolutely disprove it? NO.

thats my problem with faith, someone can slap anything together and put FAITH over it.

with science, u have to prove it and theres evidence, which is why to me, id rather go with that. science cant technically disprove creationism absolutely, yet at least, but thats because FAITH can easily be manipulated and changed.

its like with greek mythology, at one point they truly believed it with FAITH and then wen that got caught disproven beyond all doubt, now its considered fantasy, so we'll see what happens, i have more confidence in scientific discovery
 5 years ago '11        #202
Kadillac87 225 heat pts225
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 HHS said:
The percentage of time directly observed is not the same as the level of certainty, because direct observation isn't the only way to examine something, so the way you're attempting to frame it and the percentages you're inventing are not a valid examination of the issue.
So science isn't not about direct observation anymore? So my facts are not valid anymore because it shows how much faith in the unknown you're trusting science for?
 5 years ago '11        #203
Kadillac87 225 heat pts225
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 nightmare said:
again thats not my argument, ur taking wat other ppl sed and putting into my argument. im simply saying that i theres much more to work with in science, than in faith. u can say anythiing and as long as you claim faith it technically cant be disproven

i could have faith that the lollipop dragon from the other side of the universe, is gonna come and ascend us all to heaven one day. is that outlandish? YES. but can u absolutely disprove it? NO.

thats my problem with faith, someone can slap anything together and put FAITH over it.

with science, u have to prove it and theres evidence, which is why to me, id rather go with that. science cant technically disprove creationism absolutely, yet at least, but thats because FAITH can easily be manipulated and changed.

its like with greek mythology, at one point they truly believed it with FAITH and then wen that got caught disproven beyond all doubt, now its considered fantasy, so we'll see what happens, i have more confidence in scientific discovery
Again, science relies on unproven a.ssumptions also. Things in the bible has been proven. Just like things in science has been proven. They both rely on a.ssumptions.
 5 years ago '06        #204
nightmare 429 heat pts429
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 Kadillac87 said:
Again, science relies on unproven a.ssumptions also. Things in the bible has been proven. Just like things in science has been proven. They both rely on a.ssumptions.
how can say that, when we live in a world of proven scientific principles everyday? we have learned to much about the human body and advanced medicine to heights once thought impossible, meanwhile back in the day religious ppl were holding it back saying that the human body cant be studied because it has to stay intact for judgement day?

we have learned to harness the forces of nature to generate power based on PROVEN scientific principles

we have used science to operate our vehicles, or appliances and have a a better understanding of the world, we can even predict weather patterns,

how the fu*k could that be done on unproven methods?

if we listened to religious ppl, and not common sense, we would still be in the dark ages
 5 years ago '04        #205
HHS 1 heat pts
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 Kadillac87 said:
So science isn't not about direct observation anymore? So my facts are not valid anymore because it shows how much faith in the unknown you're trusting science for?
Well, there's this little thing called experimentation that is sort of key part of science. Since it's obviously not possible for any human being to have directly observed billions of years of time, you can design an experiment to subject materials to numerous conditions that they could have encountered over that time, to see if the rate of radioactive decay is affected by those conditions. If, after years of experimentation, no condition is found which alters the rate of decay, you've established, beyond a mere a.ssumption, that it is reasonable to expect a constant rate under the conditions of our universe.


Last edited by HHS; 09-03-2012 at 09:27 AM..
 09-03-2012, 10:11 AM         #206
Dark Bunny Lord 
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 Kadillac87 said:
While your whole reply was refuting evidence, which was actually proving my point, this caught my eye. And I take you up on your challenge. Easily quote the several horribly disgusting immoral passages and commandments supported by God.
I didn't prove your point at all. You're basically saying I'm turning down your arguments/evidence out of hand which I'm not doing at all. You presented your evidence, I examined it, and then I explained WHY I didn't think it proved a God through sound logical rebuttle. This doesn't mean I wouldn't accept convincing evidence, it just means your evidence was NOT convincing. It's childish and an excuse to not have to actually prove what you believe but instead complain that people don't just accept it out of hand like you seem to.
For example, if you wanted to prove the existance of the lochness monster to me you'd need to provide a body, video footage that we could discover was not doctored or altered, dna, droppings, something actually testable and confirmable. You couldn't just say "look the lochness lake exists and it's pretty big. People have also told stories saying they've seen it" and expect me to beleive it. Why? Because 1 people lie ALL the time and thus there personal testimony is not convincing (again by complaining about how this evidence is discarded you are being extremely hypocritical as you don't accept testimonies given for OTHER Gods and yet expect testimonies of YOUR God to somehow be treated differently) and 2 confirming one part of a story does not make all it's elements true (again I point to the fact that new york exists but I doubt even you would admit that because New York exists that spiderman must exist). In short your arguments are just weak and unconvincing and I doubt you'd be convinced by arguments for another religion that held the same type of evidence you're trying to use to convince others of the validity of yours.


Now before I start listing all the abhorent actions commanded by the God of the bible you challenged me to let me say a few things.
1. My dislike of the actions of this character do not effect whether I think he's real or not. I do not believe in him and do not like him, but one is not relevant to the other as I could still not like someone and still believe they exist.
2. Saying "But he's God" or "He works in mysterious ways" is not an excuse for these actions. If God is all powerful and all knowing then there is no excuse for doing blatantly evil things. Instead I chock up why he was written doing these things to people of the time being ok with murder, r*pe, slavery, etc as long as it wasn't of their own tribe.
3. Lastly "might" does not make right. Thus "being God" is not an excuse to do evil things. If you're going to claim God is all good and thus anything he says or does is good regardeless of what it is then Good and Evil have no meaning.

So let's begin:
1. 2 Kings 2:23-24, Elijah gets called bald by some kids so what does God do? He sends forth two bears to slaughter 42 children for name calling. Imagine if our courts made name calling a capitol punishment with a death penalty worse than what we give murderers.
2. 1Samuel 6:19-20, God k!lls 50,071 men for merely looking in the Ark of the covenant. I guess curiosity is worthy of the death penalty aye?
3. 1 Kings 20:35-36, A prophet orders a man to strike him and when the man won't hit the prophet God sends a lion to k!ll him. I mean really? He wont hit someone so God k!lls him? What a great guy.
4. 2 Samuel 6:3-7, The ark starts to tip so a guy reaches out to steady it and, what's this, he touched the ark so it wouldn't fall in the dirt? Well you guessed it, God k!lled him.
5. Exodus 12:29-30, God k!lls all of the first born of Egypt because the Pharoah refused to let the jews go. So basically innocent people are dying for someone else by God's hand and even worse the Pharoah had his heart hardened by God (Exodus 9:12) making the entire demanding of him to let his people go silly when he is making it more difficult for him to do so.
6. Leviticus 26:21-22, God says if you're a sinner he's going to k!ll your children.
7. Isaiah 13:15-18, God commands his people to literally go into a city and slaughter everyone specifically noting to cut up peoples babies in front of them and then r*pe their wives.
8. Ezekiel 9:5-7, Oh look another city where God commands his people to go in to a city and k!ll all the men, women, and children sparing only those with a marked forehead.
9. Hosea 9:11-16, more baby k!lling by God.
Lastly need I mention him k!lling oh let's see... nearly the ENTIRE population of the earth other than one small incestuous family with a flood?
I could go on and on and on, but none of these are relevant to the topic that creationism is not based on fact or evidence and as such should not be taught in schools as a result.

Good enough? These are all examples of the God of that book doing terrible things (not even to mention the flood k!lling millions. God has infinite power apparently and his best solution to a problem is mass genocide.)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now then I see you keep insisting that because we haven't witnessed something that we can't predict it. This is nonsense. We haven't witnessed the entire orbit of pluto yet we've accurately predicted it's orbit. Again science isn't claiming absolute knowledge but it's not an "assumption" as you keep insisting either, and again I'll use Pluto's orbit which we've never seen a full completion of as an example. Pluto will take 248 years to complete and yet we haven't been observing it for even half that. So the question is how do we know it will take that long or what it's pattern will be.
Simple. The evidence grants us the speed it's moving, it's distance from the sun, it's mass, and thus can predict it's arc, we know that if it continues to move at this speed and this arc as all planets and moons do that it's orbit will take 248 years to complete. Is it possible that we can be wrong? Sure, but again this is a theory not a fact. Science RARELY deals in facts, instead it says "this is our best understanding of the evidence" and more often than not the predictions are accurate. Faith however DOES claim absolute knowledge and DOESN'T require ANY evidence so please stop being so intellectually dishonest as to continue to insist that the two are on an even remotely similar because literally by English definition they're not, some evidence =/= no evidence and uncertainty =/= certainty as the entire basis of science is to leave it'self open to new evidence being introduced to test it's understanding (ironic as you continue to insist that we "don't question" science even though we do CONSTANTLY).
In short science doesn't just "assume" that something is true, it looks at the evidence, finds patterns, compares it to other facts, evidence, theories, and says "based on all the research, evidence, and investigation all evidence says that this is what happens". So again, there is 0 a.ssumption, there is a theory that is left open as subject to change should contradicting evidence be discovered.
 5 years ago '06        #207
nightmare 429 heat pts429
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 Dark Bunny Lord said:
I didn't prove your point at all. You're basically saying I'm turning down your arguments/evidence out of hand which I'm not doing at all. You presented your evidence, I examined it, and then I explained WHY I didn't think it proved a God through sound logical rebuttle. This doesn't mean I wouldn't accept convincing evidence, it just means your evidence was NOT convincing. It's childish and an excuse to not have to actually prove what you believe but instead complain that people don't just accept it out of hand like you seem to.
For example, if you wanted to prove the existance of the lochness monster to me you'd need to provide a body, video footage that we could discover was not doctored or altered, dna, droppings, something actually testable and confirmable. You couldn't just say "look the lochness lake exists and it's pretty big. People have also told stories saying they've seen it" and expect me to beleive it. Why? Because 1 people lie ALL the time and thus there personal testimony is not convincing (again by complaining about how this evidence is discarded you are being extremely hypocritical as you don't accept testimonies given for OTHER Gods and yet expect testimonies of YOUR God to somehow be treated differently) and 2 confirming one part of a story does not make all it's elements true (again I point to the fact that new york exists but I doubt even you would admit that because New York exists that spiderman must exist). In short your arguments are just weak and unconvincing and I doubt you'd be convinced by arguments for another religion that held the same type of evidence you're trying to use to convince others of the validity of yours.


Now before I start listing all the abhorent actions commanded by the God of the bible you challenged me to let me say a few things.
1. My dislike of the actions of this character do not effect whether I think he's real or not. I do not believe in him and do not like him, but one is not relevant to the other as I could still not like someone and still believe they exist.
2. Saying "But he's God" or "He works in mysterious ways" is not an excuse for these actions. If God is all powerful and all knowing then there is no excuse for doing blatantly evil things. Instead I chock up why he was written doing these things to people of the time being ok with murder, r*pe, slavery, etc as long as it wasn't of their own tribe.
3. Lastly "might" does not make right. Thus "being God" is not an excuse to do evil things. If you're going to claim God is all good and thus anything he says or does is good regardeless of what it is then Good and Evil have no meaning.

So let's begin:
1. 2 Kings 2:23-24, Elijah gets called bald by some kids so what does God do? He sends forth two bears to slaughter 42 children for name calling. Imagine if our courts made name calling a capitol punishment with a death penalty worse than what we give murderers.
2. 1Samuel 6:19-20, God k!lls 50,071 men for merely looking in the Ark of the covenant. I guess curiosity is worthy of the death penalty aye?
3. 1 Kings 20:35-36, A prophet orders a man to strike him and when the man won't hit the prophet God sends a lion to k!ll him. I mean really? He wont hit someone so God k!lls him? What a great guy.
4. 2 Samuel 6:3-7, The ark starts to tip so a guy reaches out to steady it and, what's this, he touched the ark so it wouldn't fall in the dirt? Well you guessed it, God k!lled him.
5. Exodus 12:29-30, God k!lls all of the first born of Egypt because the Pharoah refused to let the jews go. So basically innocent people are dying for someone else by God's hand and even worse the Pharoah had his heart hardened by God (Exodus 9:12) making the entire demanding of him to let his people go silly when he is making it more difficult for him to do so.
6. Leviticus 26:21-22, God says if you're a sinner he's going to k!ll your children.
7. Isaiah 13:15-18, God commands his people to literally go into a city and slaughter everyone specifically noting to cut up peoples babies in front of them and then r*pe their wives.
8. Ezekiel 9:5-7, Oh look another city where God commands his people to go in to a city and k!ll all the men, women, and children sparing only those with a marked forehead.
9. Hosea 9:11-16, more baby k!lling by God.
Lastly need I mention him k!lling oh let's see... nearly the ENTIRE population of the earth other than one small incestuous family with a flood?
I could go on and on and on, but none of these are relevant to the topic that creationism is not based on fact or evidence and as such should not be taught in schools as a result.

Good enough? These are all examples of the God of that book doing terrible things (not even to mention the flood k!lling millions. God has infinite power apparently and his best solution to a problem is mass genocide.)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now then I see you keep insisting that because we haven't witnessed something that we can't predict it. This is nonsense. We haven't witnessed the entire orbit of pluto yet we've accurately predicted it's orbit. Again science isn't claiming absolute knowledge but it's not an "assumption" as you keep insisting either, and again I'll use Pluto's orbit which we've never seen a full completion of as an example. Pluto will take 248 years to complete and yet we haven't been observing it for even half that. So the question is how do we know it will take that long or what it's pattern will be.
Simple. The evidence grants us the speed it's moving, it's distance from the sun, it's mass, and thus can predict it's arc, we know that if it continues to move at this speed and this arc as all planets and moons do that it's orbit will take 248 years to complete. Is it possible that we can be wrong? Sure, but again this is a theory not a fact. Science RARELY deals in facts, instead it says "this is our best understanding of the evidence" and more often than not the predictions are accurate. Faith however DOES claim absolute knowledge and DOESN'T require ANY evidence so please stop being so intellectually dishonest as to continue to insist that the two are on an even remotely similar because literally by English definition they're not, some evidence =/= no evidence and uncertainty =/= certainty as the entire basis of science is to leave it'self open to new evidence being introduced to test it's understanding (ironic as you continue to insist that we "don't question" science even though we do CONSTANTLY).
In short science doesn't just "assume" that something is true, it looks at the evidence, finds patterns, compares it to other facts, evidence, theories, and says "based on all the research, evidence, and investigation all evidence says that this is what happens". So again, there is 0 a.ssumption, there is a theory that is left open as subject to change should contradicting evidence be discovered.
idk why you went thru all that trouble to prove kadillac87 wrong, cuz hes just gonna have some BS excuse or his gonna change the argument to avoid acknowledging wat u sed. almost everything u have sed, i have touched on at some point in the thread and he diverted attention away from it, or ignored it altogether




other than that, good show


Last edited by nightmare; 09-03-2012 at 10:42 AM..
 09-03-2012, 11:43 AM         #208
Dark Bunny Lord 
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 nightmare said:
idk why you went thru all that trouble to prove kadillac87 wrong, cuz hes just gonna have some BS excuse or his gonna change the argument to avoid acknowledging wat u sed. almost everything u have sed, i have touched on at some point in the thread and he diverted attention away from it, or ignored it altogether




other than that, good show
Eh, not really trouble, I enjoy debating so it's less work and more fun plus I feel it helps sharpen our minds to debate these things even if the person your debating with doesn't have a good argument. Now if he continues to use the same fallacies over and over to me then perhaps I'll just leave him be as talking to a wall does get tiring after a while.
 5 years ago '06        #209
nightmare 429 heat pts429
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 Dark Bunny Lord said:
Eh, not really trouble, I enjoy debating so it's less work and more fun plus I feel it helps sharpen our minds to debate these things even if the person your debating with doesn't have a good argument. Now if he continues to use the same fallacies over and over to me then perhaps I'll just leave him be as talking to a wall does get tiring after a while.
yea i feel you, i im guess fatigued, because ive been arguing with this guy since thursday and hes been cycling the same sh*t
 09-03-2012, 12:47 PM         #210
Dark Bunny Lord 
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 nightmare said:
yea i feel you, i im guess fatigued, because ive been arguing with this guy since thursday and hes been cycling the same sh*t
Oh I hear ya there. I do a youtube channel under the same name I use here, where I debate via video responses and comments quit a bit (though haven't made anything new in a while). I'm more than used to the flag post moving tactic where you're both arguing one thing and then as soon as you construct a sound logical argument the topic suddenly gets changed to avoid actually acknowledging what you said.

I've only seen him do that with the repeated accusation that science "assumes" things and that we don't question science. Even after I very clearly laid out what a theory was, pointing out that it was anything but an a.ssumption and encouraged people to question it as long as they had evidence to back up their concerns.

I think Hitchens said it best, "that which can be a.sserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence".


Last edited by Dark Bunny Lord; 09-03-2012 at 04:14 PM..
 5 years ago '11        #211
Kadillac87 225 heat pts225
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 Dark Bunny Lord said:
I didn't prove your point at all. You're basically saying I'm turning down your arguments/evidence out of hand which I'm not doing at all. You presented your evidence, I examined it, and then I explained WHY I didn't think it proved a God through sound logical rebuttle. This doesn't mean I wouldn't accept convincing evidence, it just means your evidence was NOT convincing. It's childish and an excuse to not have to actually prove what you believe but instead complain that people don't just accept it out of hand like you seem to.
For example, if you wanted to prove the existance of the lochness monster to me you'd need to provide a body, video footage that we could discover was not doctored or altered, dna, droppings, something actually testable and confirmable. You couldn't just say "look the lochness lake exists and it's pretty big. People have also told stories saying they've seen it" and expect me to beleive it. Why? Because 1 people lie ALL the time and thus there personal testimony is not convincing (again by complaining about how this evidence is discarded you are being extremely hypocritical as you don't accept testimonies given for OTHER Gods and yet expect testimonies of YOUR God to somehow be treated differently) and 2 confirming one part of a story does not make all it's elements true (again I point to the fact that new york exists but I doubt even you would admit that because New York exists that spiderman must exist). In short your arguments are just weak and unconvincing and I doubt you'd be convinced by arguments for another religion that held the same type of evidence you're trying to use to convince others of the validity of yours.


Now before I start listing all the abhorent actions commanded by the God of the bible you challenged me to let me say a few things.
1. My dislike of the actions of this character do not effect whether I think he's real or not. I do not believe in him and do not like him, but one is not relevant to the other as I could still not like someone and still believe they exist.
2. Saying "But he's God" or "He works in mysterious ways" is not an excuse for these actions. If God is all powerful and all knowing then there is no excuse for doing blatantly evil things. Instead I chock up why he was written doing these things to people of the time being ok with murder, r*pe, slavery, etc as long as it wasn't of their own tribe.
3. Lastly "might" does not make right. Thus "being God" is not an excuse to do evil things. If you're going to claim God is all good and thus anything he says or does is good regardeless of what it is then Good and Evil have no meaning.

So let's begin:
1. 2 Kings 2:23-24, Elijah gets called bald by some kids so what does God do? He sends forth two bears to slaughter 42 children for name calling. Imagine if our courts made name calling a capitol punishment with a death penalty worse than what we give murderers.
2. 1Samuel 6:19-20, God k!lls 50,071 men for merely looking in the Ark of the covenant. I guess curiosity is worthy of the death penalty aye?
3. 1 Kings 20:35-36, A prophet orders a man to strike him and when the man won't hit the prophet God sends a lion to k!ll him. I mean really? He wont hit someone so God k!lls him? What a great guy.
4. 2 Samuel 6:3-7, The ark starts to tip so a guy reaches out to steady it and, what's this, he touched the ark so it wouldn't fall in the dirt? Well you guessed it, God k!lled him.
5. Exodus 12:29-30, God k!lls all of the first born of Egypt because the Pharoah refused to let the jews go. So basically innocent people are dying for someone else by God's hand and even worse the Pharoah had his heart hardened by God (Exodus 9:12) making the entire demanding of him to let his people go silly when he is making it more difficult for him to do so.
6. Leviticus 26:21-22, God says if you're a sinner he's going to k!ll your children.
7. Isaiah 13:15-18, God commands his people to literally go into a city and slaughter everyone specifically noting to cut up peoples babies in front of them and then r*pe their wives.
8. Ezekiel 9:5-7, Oh look another city where God commands his people to go in to a city and k!ll all the men, women, and children sparing only those with a marked forehead.
9. Hosea 9:11-16, more baby k!lling by God.
Lastly need I mention him k!lling oh let's see... nearly the ENTIRE population of the earth other than one small incestuous family with a flood?
I could go on and on and on, but none of these are relevant to the topic that creationism is not based on fact or evidence and as such should not be taught in schools as a result.

Good enough? These are all examples of the God of that book doing terrible things (not even to mention the flood k!lling millions. God has infinite power apparently and his best solution to a problem is mass genocide.)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now then I see you keep insisting that because we haven't witnessed something that we can't predict it. This is nonsense. We haven't witnessed the entire orbit of pluto yet we've accurately predicted it's orbit. Again science isn't claiming absolute knowledge but it's not an "assumption" as you keep insisting either, and again I'll use Pluto's orbit which we've never seen a full completion of as an example. Pluto will take 248 years to complete and yet we haven't been observing it for even half that. So the question is how do we know it will take that long or what it's pattern will be.
Simple. The evidence grants us the speed it's moving, it's distance from the sun, it's mass, and thus can predict it's arc, we know that if it continues to move at this speed and this arc as all planets and moons do that it's orbit will take 248 years to complete. Is it possible that we can be wrong? Sure, but again this is a theory not a fact. Science RARELY deals in facts, instead it says "this is our best understanding of the evidence" and more often than not the predictions are accurate. Faith however DOES claim absolute knowledge and DOESN'T require ANY evidence so please stop being so intellectually dishonest as to continue to insist that the two are on an even remotely similar because literally by English definition they're not, some evidence =/= no evidence and uncertainty =/= certainty as the entire basis of science is to leave it'self open to new evidence being introduced to test it's understanding (ironic as you continue to insist that we "don't question" science even though we do CONSTANTLY).
In short science doesn't just "assume" that something is true, it looks at the evidence, finds patterns, compares it to other facts, evidence, theories, and says "based on all the research, evidence, and investigation all evidence says that this is what happens". So again, there is 0 a.ssumption, there is a theory that is left open as subject to change should contradicting evidence be discovered.



Come on man, it's the year 2012. Everybody has been to the same atheist site and seen these same scriptures taken out of context.

1. First, they're not kids. Original translation used the word lad, same word to describe a 28 year old Issac. I would suggest you use more than the KJV to show little children were k!lled. Anyway, 42 people come at a prophet of God. They knew he was a messenger of God, and scorned him anyway. So Elisha cursed them for their mockery and disrespect.

2. Read Numbers 4:20. God specifically said not to touch it. And I'm pretty sure you don't know the story being the ark of covenant. Isareal was defeated, and they captured the ark. They made a mockery of it by placing it at the feet of false gods and God cursed them and told them to return it with specific instructions.

3. Again, disobedience. It clearly says "Because you have not obeyed the voice of the Lord, a lion will k!ll you as soon as you leave me"

4. Read Numbers 4:15. Then read the answer to number 2.

5. You would have know the history of gods that Egypt worshipped and the plagues which God used to show them that their false gods were powerless. Look up Min and Isis. And God has sacrificed the innocent before for the greater good, see Jesus. You must think he sends those he use straight to Hell? You must think life on Earth is greater than Heaven?

6. Please read the whole covenant and not just take pieces of it. Verse 3-13. These are the blessings the Lord are giving for obeying him (not making false idos, keeping the Sabbath day). For disobedience, he is taking those blessings away. Verse 9 states “I will look favorably upon you, making you fertile and multiplying your people. And I will fulfill my covenant with you." Clearly he is taking the blessing away that he promised if they were faithful.

7. God didn't command his people to do anything. God allowed Babylon's enemies to destroy it. Isaiah 13 is God telling his people in captivity what was about to take place.

8. If it wasn't before, it's pretty clear you just went to the same skeptic wordbank everybody else goes to instead of reading for yourself. If you did read for yourself, you would see most of Ezekiel is a vision given by God on his judgement of Babylon. It's not another city. It's the same city from Isaiah. The verse you posted is describing the vision given to Ezekiel. The marked forehead is symbolism. He was to use that vision to tell the people to repent from their sinful ways or face utter destruction.

9. Again, you harp on the punishment (a barren womb) instead of the crime (worshipping false idos and arrogance). As seen in number 6, God takes away his blessings to those who desecrate it by worshipping the created instead of the Creator.

Next time, please don't go to the same skeptics website everybody who has the internet has seen. Come up with something original.



Last edited by Kadillac87; 09-03-2012 at 06:13 PM..
 09-03-2012, 06:37 PM         #212
Dark Bunny Lord 
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 Kadillac87 said:


Come on man, it's the year 2012. Everybody has been to the same atheist site and seen these same scriptures taken out of context.

1. First, they're not kids. Original translation used the word lad, same word to describe a 28 year old Issac. I would suggest you use more than the KJV to show little children were k!lled. Anyway, 42 people come at a prophet of God. They knew he was a messenger of God, and scorned him anyway. So Elisha cursed them for their mockery and disrespect.

2. Read Numbers 4:20. God specifically said not to touch it. And I'm pretty sure you don't know the story being the ark of covenant. Isareal was defeated, and they captured the ark. They made a mockery of it by placing it at the feet of false gods and God cursed them and told them to return it with specific instructions.

3. Again, disobedience. It clearly says "Because you have not obeyed the voice of the Lord, a lion will k!ll you as soon as you leave me"

4. Read Numbers 4:15. Then read the answer to number 2.

5. You would have know the history of gods that Egypt worshipped and the plagues which God used to show them that their false gods were powerless. Look up Min and Isis. And God has sacrificed the innocent before for the greater good, see Jesus. You must think he sends those he use straight to Hell? You must think life on Earth is greater than Heaven?

6. Please read the whole covenant and not just take pieces of it. Verse 3-13. These are the blessings the Lord are giving for obeying him (not making false idos, keeping the Sabbath day). For disobedience, he is taking those blessings away. Verse 9 states “I will look favorably upon you, making you fertile and multiplying your people. And I will fulfill my covenant with you." Clearly he is taking the blessing away that he promised if they were faithful.

7. God didn't command his people to do anything. God allowed Babylon's enemies to destroy it. Isaiah 13 is God telling his people in captivity what was about to take place.

8. If it wasn't before, it's pretty clear you just went to the same skeptic wordbank everybody else goes to instead of reading for yourself. If you did read for yourself, you would see most of Ezekiel is a vision given by God on his judgement of Babylon. It's not another city. It's the same city from Isaiah. The verse you posted is describing the vision given to Ezekiel. The marked forehead is symbolism. He was to use that vision to tell the people to repent from their sinful ways or face utter destruction.

9. Again, you harp on the punishment (a barren womb) instead of the crime (worshipping false idos and arrogance). As seen in number 6, God takes away his blessings to those who desecrate it by worshipping the created instead of the Creator.

Next time, please don't go to the same skeptics website everybody who has the internet has seen. Come up with something original.

Funny if you think I pulled this up from a website and not just from my bible that has this sh*t bookmarked why didn't you just name the site? Oh that's right, because building straw-men seems to be your thing. Also, great job topic dodging by actually referring to anything relevant to the original topic in the last two posts. You're playing the old "move the topic" game and it's not impressive, but I'll entertain you some more.

1. Great so k!lling adults for calling you bald instead of k!lling children for calling you bald makes it ok right? I'm sorry, that's horse sh*t and what a terrible person you are for not acknowledging that murdering 42 people for calling someone a name is anything but evil.
2. Great, again how is that an excuse for murder? If you mock me and I say "don't touch my sh*t" and you touch it, did you just give me licence to k!ll you? Hell no, no reasonable human being would admit that.
3. Wonderful, so if someone is disobedient k!lling them is a-ok. You are seriously fu*ked up in the head if you think that's true.
4. Again you insist that disobeying an order means you deserve to die. What part of "might does not make right" did you not seem to grasp?
5. It doesn't matter if he doesn't send them straight to hell or if heaven is a swell place, he still k!llED INNOCENT PEOPLE for an act that SOMEONE ELSE COMMITTED.
6. Aaaaaagain you completely ignored my initial 3 points, "because he's God" or "might makes right" ARE NOT sufficient excuses for blatantly evil acts and murder is something I bet most people would call an evil act (for fu*ks sake God himself calls it a sin and proceeds to do it over and over again).
7. Pardon? Does he not say "I"? That would make no sense in the context your insisting it is, instead it only makes sense if he was doing something which the verse proclaims him to be doing.
8. Utter destruction at his hands. Again this is horse sh*t, if I don't like something your doing that's not harming anyone and tell you to stop or I'll k!ll you I would not be justified in k!lling you just because you didn't stop. You seem to be stuck on this "he's God so he can do what he want and it's good because he's God" fallacy.
9. So taking peoples kids away which is a completely biological process is "removing their blessings"? I don't care what you call it, it's still evil.

So basically you haven't refuted a single one of these, you've just continually used the "He's God so he can do what he wants and it's good because he's God" argument again and again.
In short you have proven yourself to either be:
A) Intellectually dishonest by not addressing whether these acts where good or evil but rahter just saying "no no you got it wrong, it says this instead" instead of "it's good because of this".
or
B) You are a horrible person that thinks people should be k!lled for being disobedient and that slaughtering anyone is ok as long as you warn them not to do something first.

Pick your poison.
 5 years ago '08        #213
triznathaniel 42 heat pts42
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Standing ovation for Bill Nye.

These arguments pitting religion and science against each other always devolve into name calling and petty f!ghts over semantics...

The truth is, kids should learn about the world they live in through scientific and mathematical theories based on facts and experimentation, but there is room to teach kids about faith along with that. I'm not a big fan of religion personally, but I do know that the world can be unforgiving and faith is an immeasurably powerful force that a lot of people simply need for survival. I think the smart thing to do is take value in both perspectives and rule out nothing you cannot prove or disprove outright.
 5 years ago '06        #214
nightmare 429 heat pts429
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 Dark Bunny Lord said:
Funny if you think I pulled this up from a website and not just from my bible that has this sh*t bookmarked why didn't you just name the site? Oh that's right, because building straw-men seems to be your thing. Also, great job topic dodging by actually referring to anything relevant to the original topic in the last two posts. You're playing the old "move the topic" game and it's not impressive, but I'll entertain you some more.

1. Great so k!lling adults for calling you bald instead of k!lling children for calling you bald makes it ok right? I'm sorry, that's horse sh*t and what a terrible person you are for not acknowledging that murdering 42 people for calling someone a name is anything but evil.
2. Great, again how is that an excuse for murder? If you mock me and I say "don't touch my sh*t" and you touch it, did you just give me licence to k!ll you? Hell no, no reasonable human being would admit that.
3. Wonderful, so if someone is disobedient k!lling them is a-ok. You are seriously fu*ked up in the head if you think that's true.
4. Again you insist that disobeying an order means you deserve to die. What part of "might does not make right" did you not seem to grasp?
5. It doesn't matter if he doesn't send them straight to hell or if heaven is a swell place, he still k!llED INNOCENT PEOPLE for an act that SOMEONE ELSE COMMITTED.
6. Aaaaaagain you completely ignored my initial 3 points, "because he's God" or "might makes right" ARE NOT sufficient excuses for blatantly evil acts and murder is something I bet most people would call an evil act (for fu*ks sake God himself calls it a sin and proceeds to do it over and over again).
7. Pardon? Does he not say "I"? That would make no sense in the context your insisting it is, instead it only makes sense if he was doing something which the verse proclaims him to be doing.
8. Utter destruction at his hands. Again this is horse sh*t, if I don't like something your doing that's not harming anyone and tell you to stop or I'll k!ll you I would not be justified in k!lling you just because you didn't stop. You seem to be stuck on this "he's God so he can do what he want and it's good because he's God" fallacy.
9. So taking peoples kids away which is a completely biological process is "removing their blessings"? I don't care what you call it, it's still evil.

So basically you haven't refuted a single one of these, you've just continually used the "He's God so he can do what he wants and it's good because he's God" argument again and again.
In short you have proven yourself to either be:
A) Intellectually dishonest by not addressing whether these acts where good or evil but rahter just saying "no no you got it wrong, it says this instead" instead of "it's good because of this".
or
B) You are a horrible person that thinks people should be k!lled for being disobedient and that slaughtering anyone is ok as long as you warn them not to do something first.

Pick your poison.
i warned u about his tactics, but at least we know hes cornered now
 5 years ago '11        #215
Kadillac87 225 heat pts225
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 Dark Bunny Lord said:
Funny if you think I pulled this up from a website and not just from my bible that has this sh*t bookmarked why didn't you just name the site? Oh that's right, because building straw-men seems to be your thing. Also, great job topic dodging by actually referring to anything relevant to the original topic in the last two posts. You're playing the old "move the topic" game and it's not impressive, but I'll entertain you some more.

1. Great so k!lling adults for calling you bald instead of k!lling children for calling you bald makes it ok right? I'm sorry, that's horse sh*t and what a terrible person you are for not acknowledging that murdering 42 people for calling someone a name is anything but evil.
2. Great, again how is that an excuse for murder? If you mock me and I say "don't touch my sh*t" and you touch it, did you just give me licence to k!ll you? Hell no, no reasonable human being would admit that.
3. Wonderful, so if someone is disobedient k!lling them is a-ok. You are seriously fu*ked up in the head if you think that's true.
4. Again you insist that disobeying an order means you deserve to die. What part of "might does not make right" did you not seem to grasp?
5. It doesn't matter if he doesn't send them straight to hell or if heaven is a swell place, he still k!llED INNOCENT PEOPLE for an act that SOMEONE ELSE COMMITTED.
6. Aaaaaagain you completely ignored my initial 3 points, "because he's God" or "might makes right" ARE NOT sufficient excuses for blatantly evil acts and murder is something I bet most people would call an evil act (for fu*ks sake God himself calls it a sin and proceeds to do it over and over again).
7. Pardon? Does he not say "I"? That would make no sense in the context your insisting it is, instead it only makes sense if he was doing something which the verse proclaims him to be doing.
8. Utter destruction at his hands. Again this is horse sh*t, if I don't like something your doing that's not harming anyone and tell you to stop or I'll k!ll you I would not be justified in k!lling you just because you didn't stop. You seem to be stuck on this "he's God so he can do what he want and it's good because he's God" fallacy.
9. So taking peoples kids away which is a completely biological process is "removing their blessings"? I don't care what you call it, it's still evil.

So basically you haven't refuted a single one of these, you've just continually used the "He's God so he can do what he wants and it's good because he's God" argument again and again.
In short you have proven yourself to either be:
A) Intellectually dishonest by not addressing whether these acts where good or evil but rahter just saying "no no you got it wrong, it says this instead" instead of "it's good because of this".
or
B) You are a horrible person that thinks people should be k!lled for being disobedient and that slaughtering anyone is ok as long as you warn them not to do something first.

Pick your poison.
I didn't read your post. I scrolled and saw the verses and decided to respond. If you reply to my quote saying point out the bible verses, that's what I'm going to look for.

Here goes the website:

Thousand of more just like it. Same verses every time. Taken out of context with no mention to the whole story. It's like showing A Time to k!ll and only showing Samuel L Jackson saying "Yes I think they should die, and I hope they burn in hell" If you just look at that, you might think, that guy is a pretty cruel guy. But when you look at the whole movie, you see he is justified in feeling that way.

1. They weren't k!lled for calling him bald. They were k!lled for trying to come against and making a mockery of a messenger of God. They knew what he was there to do, and to show their discontent for God, they mocked him and told him ascend to Heaven like Elijah because they didn't want him there.

2. Saying murder implies the victim was without fault. He knew the instructions and disobeyed God. Pretty simple. You can be sentenced to death in the US military for disobeying orders, so yea...

3. If you break the law, you are subject to the punishment outlined. If you disobey God, you are subject to his punishment. See 2.

4. See 2.

5. You will only be judged for your own sins, but you actions can affect everybody. If a woman smokes crack while pregnant with a child, the child will be born a crack baby. Not through any fault of it's own, but through the actions of its parents. Being innocent does not mean free from the consequences of others. You reap what you sow will always be in effect. Pharaoh ordered all his people to k!ll every male Hebrew. He sowed the iniquity, and it was brought back on him and his people.

6. How is God refusing his blessings an evil act? His blessings were contingent on the people not worshipping false idols and remembering the Sabbath. If you make a contract with someone to paint your house for an hourly wage, and you don't pay them, do they continue to paint your house? Why should God continue to hold up his end of the bargain if they refuse to hold up their end of the bargain?

7. Again, you show your ignorance of the scripture. Babylon was pretty much impenetrable. Surrounded by moats and gates. God used one his prophet to propeshize to his people who were in captive, that God would dry up the rives and open up the gates and allow Cyrus to bring down Babylon.

8. See first sentence of 7.

9. See 5.


So be honest with me. Out all the scriptures you have listed, how many have you read in full context. I know you're going to lie, but judging from your ignorance of the events that surrounded them, I would predict none.
 5 years ago '06        #216
nightmare 429 heat pts429
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 Kadillac87 said:
I didn't read your post. I scrolled and saw the verses and decided to respond. If you reply to my quote saying point out the bible verses, that's what I'm going to look for.

Here goes the website:

Thousand of more just like it. Same verses every time. Taken out of context with no mention to the whole story. It's like showing A Time to k!ll and only showing Samuel L Jackson saying "Yes I think they should die, and I hope they burn in hell" If you just look at that, you might think, that guy is a pretty cruel guy. But when you look at the whole movie, you see he is justified in feeling that way.

1. They weren't k!lled for calling him bald. They were k!lled for trying to come against and making a mockery of a messenger of God. They knew what he was there to do, and to show their discontent for God, they mocked him and told him ascend to Heaven like Elijah because they didn't want him there.

2. Saying murder implies the victim was without fault. He knew the instructions and disobeyed God. Pretty simple. You can be sentenced to death in the US military for disobeying orders, so yea...

3. If you break the law, you are subject to the punishment outlined. If you disobey God, you are subject to his punishment. See 2.

4. See 2.

5. You will only be judged for your own sins, but you actions can affect everybody. If a woman smokes crack while pregnant with a child, the child will be born a crack baby. Not through any fault of it's own, but through the actions of its parents. Being innocent does not mean free from the consequences of others. You reap what you sow will always be in effect. Pharaoh ordered all his people to k!ll every male Hebrew. He sowed the iniquity, and it was brought back on him and his people.

6. How is God refusing his blessings an evil act? His blessings were contingent on the people not worshipping false idols and remembering the Sabbath. If you make a contract with someone to paint your house for an hourly wage, and you don't pay them, do they continue to paint your house? Why should God continue to hold up his end of the bargain if they refuse to hold up their end of the bargain?

7. Again, you show your ignorance of the scripture. Babylon was pretty much impenetrable. Surrounded by moats and gates. God used one his prophet to propeshize to his people who were in captive, that God would dry up the rives and open up the gates and allow Cyrus to bring down Babylon.

8. See first sentence of 7.

9. See 5.


So be honest with me. Out all the scriptures you have listed, how many have you read in full context. I know you're going to lie, but judging from your ignorance of the events that surrounded them, I would predict none.



First off, in an intellectual debate, u didnt bother to read the post?


Then ur holding "GOD" to the same moral standard as the US military??????? im done

and in each case that u described the scripture, ur making God seem petty as hell, "u hit me, ima gonna hit u back" like a child arguing over building blocks in kindergarten.

Then god is omnipotent, but hes thrown off by moats and gates!!!!!!!!!????????

sounds to me like the ppl who wrote the Bible had to justify atrocities by saying "god did it"


thanks for reinforcing my disbelief is that sh*t


 5 years ago '11        #217
Kadillac87 225 heat pts225
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 nightmare said:


First off, in an intellectual debate, u didnt bother to read the post?


Then ur holding "GOD" to the same moral standard as the US military??????? im done

and in each case that u described the scripture, ur making God seem petty as hell, "u hit me, ima gonna hit u back" like a child arguing over building blocks in kindergarten.

Then god is omnipotent, but hes thrown off by moats and gates!!!!!!!!!????????

sounds to me like the ppl who wrote the Bible had to justify atrocities by saying "god did it"


thanks for reinforcing my disbelief is that sh*t


1. It's not an intellectual debate. It's a skeptic trying to discredit something he hasn't even read. At least I acknowledge when I haven't read something.


2. Not holding God to the same standards as the US military. Just showing k!lling for disobeying orders is not unheard of like he tried to make it seem.

3. You're taking my word for it instead of learning it for yourself. There's lies the problem

4. Ummm, don't know what you mean by God is thrown off by moats and gates. I'm pretty sure you read that wrong. Babylon thought they were safe behind their defenses. God said I will crumble your defenses and let your enemies walk up to you.

5. I didn't reinforce anything. You wasn't wavering on believing or not believing. You already have it made up in your mind you was not going to believe. Don't try and act like that's not the truth.


Last edited by Kadillac87; 09-03-2012 at 09:01 PM..
 5 years ago '06        #218
nightmare 429 heat pts429
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 Kadillac87 said:
1. It's not an intellectual debate. It's a skeptic trying to discredit something he hasn't even read.


2. Not holding God to the same standards as the US military. Just showing k!lling for disobeying orders is not unheard of like he tried to make it seem.

3. You're taking my word for it instead of learning it for yourself. There's lies the problem

4. Ummm, don't know what you mean by God is thrown off by moats and gates. I'm pretty sure you read that wrong. Babylon thought they were safe behind their defenses. God said I will crumble your defenses and let your enemies walk up to you.

5. I didn't reinforce anything. You wasn't waving on believing or not believing. You already have it made up in your mind you was not going to believe. Don't try and act like that's not the truth.
lol how do u know whether we read the BIBLE or not? miss me with that BULLsh*t

other than that, u talking in circles, so im not responding to ur other points, cuz you brick wall mode now
 5 years ago '11        #219
Kadillac87 225 heat pts225
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 nightmare said:
lol how do u know whether we read the BIBLE or not? miss me with that BULLsh*t

other than that, u talking in circles, so im not responding to ur other points, cuz you brick wall mode now
I can tell how he framed his questions. It's pretty easy to see. And I'm pretty sure you will respond to something else in this thread. Let's not lie here.
 09-03-2012, 11:24 PM         #220
Dark Bunny Lord 
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 Kadillac87 said:
I didn't read your post. I scrolled and saw the verses and decided to respond. If you reply to my quote saying point out the bible verses, that's what I'm going to look for.
Good then you now officially showed you are not worth anyones time if you can't even take the time to read the things you're disagreeing with in their entirety. That says a lot about you.

[quote=Kadillac87;24470543]Here goes the website:

Thousand of more just like it. Same verses every time. Taken out of context with no mention to the whole story. It's like showing A Time to k!ll and only showing Samuel L Jackson saying "Yes I think they should die, and I hope they burn in hell" If you just look at that, you might think, that guy is a pretty cruel guy. But when you look at the whole movie, you see he is justified in feeling that way.[/qoute] Or maybe, just maybe I opened my bible. Let's see, opening it up now and... gasp, those verses are still all there.

 Kadillac87 said:
1. They weren't k!lled for calling him bald. They were k!lled for trying to come against and making a mockery of a messenger of God. They knew what he was there to do, and to show their discontent for God, they mocked him and told him ascend to Heaven like Elijah because they didn't want him there.
Again you are justifying murder for the crime of insulting someone. You are a terrible human being if that is what you consider justice.

 Kadillac87 said:
2. Saying murder implies the victim was without fault. He knew the instructions and disobeyed God. Pretty simple. You can be sentenced to death in the US military for disobeying orders, so yea...
Again, if the best you can come up with is might makes right then I'm done with you. If this was justified then why don't we just k!ll people for speeding? How about jaywalking? Shoplifting, a.ssault, lieing to an officer, parking in a handicapped zone, parking in a unloading zone, etc, etc, etc. Because we realize the death penalty is reserved only for very serious crimes. "Looking at" or "touching" something is NOT a crime worthy of death, how twisted do are you to believe that this they deserved to die for that?
Also the U.S. military doesn't sentence anyone to death for touching something they shouldn't touch that harms no one or looking at something their not supposed to look at, nor are they an ALL POWERFUL BEING with infinite options at their fingertips.

 Kadillac87 said:
3. If you break the law, you are subject to the punishment outlined. If you disobey God, you are subject to his punishment. See 2.

4. See 2.
Yes see 2, why don't we k!ll people for jaywalking?

 Kadillac87 said:
5. You will only be judged for your own sins, but you actions can affect everybody. If a woman smokes crack while pregnant with a child, the child will be born a crack baby. Not through any fault of it's own, but through the actions of its parents. Being innocent does not mean free from the consequences of others. You reap what you sow will always be in effect. Pharaoh ordered all his people to k!ll every male Hebrew. He sowed the iniquity, and it was brought back on him and his people.
I'm sorry but this is horsesh*t. God has INFINITE POWER and you are justifying him k!lling children for something they didn't do? That's nonsense and you know it, if you're going to grant that and call it good then you have to say the women smoking crack is good despite the harm she's doing to her baby as God would be the mother (ie the one doing damage to the innocent) in this case.
So if you want to defend this you have to liken God to a pregnant women doing crack and say this women is good, is that what you're really doing?

 Kadillac87 said:
6. How is God refusing his blessings an evil act? His blessings were contingent on the people not worshipping false idols and remembering the Sabbath. If you make a contract with someone to paint your house for an hourly wage, and you don't pay them, do they continue to paint your house? Why should God continue to hold up his end of the bargain if they refuse to hold up their end of the bargain?
Take a biology class idiot, removing a child from a pregnant women is not taking away a blessing, it's taking away an normal act of biology. There is no "bargain" stated that you needed to believe and worship Yahweh to have children, if that where the case then here the fu*k did all the non-believers or worshipers of other God's come from? Last time I checked pregnancy isn't something limited to Christians.

 Kadillac87 said:
7. Again, you show your ignorance of the scripture. Babylon was pretty much impenetrable. Surrounded by moats and gates. God used one his prophet to propeshize to his people who were in captive, that God would dry up the rives and open up the gates and allow Cyrus to bring down Babylon.
All powerful God can't find his way around moats and gates... and I'm the one that's ignorant of scripture. I don't even know what to say to that, I mean clearly you didn't read what you just typed before you hit enter.


 Kadillac87 said:
So be honest with me. Out all the scriptures you have listed, how many have you read in full context. I know you're going to lie, but judging from your ignorance of the events that surrounded them, I would predict none.
I've read the entire damn book, I know you're going to lie and continue to insist I haven't, but you've clearly shown you have little to no intellect (especially no number 7 where you claimed an all powerful being that could create the entire universe in a mere 6 days could be thwarted by moats and gates).
Keep building strawmen though, I'm sure at least you will believe your accusations with how well you've defended your points thus far. The rest of us will laugh at the crazy poorly constructed drivel seeping out of you.
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