Nas' Ghostwriting Controversy And How Social Media Has Ruined Journalism

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 5 years ago '10        #81
Hovi Bryant 676 heat pts676
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 WCIB said:
Me saying multiple times that anything is possible just means you can't read. And there you go contradicting yourself again... Everything is left up to interpretation, yet I have to admit you're right? Right about what? I thought neither side was right or wrong? Left up to interpretation or YOUR interpretation? Just caught you in your little circles again. Looks like my critical thinking skills are just fine smart guy.
I'm sticking to the same point this entire thread. Call it whatever you want. Running in circles, etc. etc.

Yes, admit that I'm right. I'm right that neither side has proof. I'm right both Dream, Stic. Man, and Electronica could be lying. I'm right that majority opinion, or those with the same stories does not equate to being conclusive evidence or proof.

Just because I believe in what Dream says does not take away from any of those facts. It just means, without proof, I can't pass judgement. I can't say Stic. Man is a liar. I can't say Nas has ghostwriters, because as of today, there's nothing to show for it. And I've never said any of those things, not once. Yet you believe I did. So you may as well admit that you're wrong there as well.


Last edited by Hovi Bryant; 08-17-2012 at 07:03 PM..
 5 years ago '05        #82
WCIB 111 heat pts111
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So you're saying I'm right then? That's all I'm gathering from this. According to you and me anything is possible, so in esensse, you're saying it's possible Stic.Man and Jay are telling the truth and that cover ups are created by the intellectually challenged who say they don't need proof to believe things right?

No?
 5 years ago '10        #83
Hovi Bryant 676 heat pts676
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 WCIB said:
So you're saying I'm right then? That's all I'm gathering from this. According to you and me anything is possible, so in esensse, you're saying it's possible Stic.Man and Jay are telling the truth and that cover ups are created by the intellectually challenged who say they don't need proof to believe things right?

No?
Honestly, I've been repeating myself this entire thread, so if you somehow believe you're right all of a sudden... that's a personal problem.
 5 years ago '05        #84
WCIB 111 heat pts111
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 Hovi Bryant said:
Honestly, I've been repeating myself this entire thread, so if you somehow believe you're right all of a sudden... that's a personal problem.
Nice edit on your post prior to this one. Don't think I didn't notice.

But yeah repeating yourself as in... Talking in circles? Yes you ARE right about that. Finally, something we can agree on.
 5 years ago '10        #85
Hovi Bryant 676 heat pts676
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 WCIB said:
So when proof is put before you, you still believe her?
You're taking someone's word, who has no evidence, as truth.
I've seen your posts and your opinion of Nas is CLEARLY slanted the other way
The burden of proof lies with her! You're ignoring firsthand accounts of Stic who was directly involved with the project.
If there was/is a smoking gun of audio with Stic.Man and Jay Electronica demoing for Nas, why haven't they surfaced? She claims to have heard them. So she's the only one? I highly doubt that.
Somehow, you're right after all of this?

The firsthand account of Stic. Man is proof? The fact that Dream Hampton doesn't have any is also proof? I think I've repeated that both sides don't have any in every post, yet in the end...you were always right?

Mentally, something is missing with you.
 5 years ago '10        #86
Hovi Bryant 676 heat pts676
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 WCIB said:
Nice edit on your post prior to this one. Don't think I didn't notice.

But yeah repeating yourself as in... Talking in circles? Yes you ARE right about that. Finally, something we can agree on.
I think everyone can see I edited a post. It says it. Just saying.

By the way, when it comes to the fallacies on both sides, I've always been right. I'm just patiently waiting for you to admit that.
 5 years ago '06        #87
Menelek 5 heat pts
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 Hovi Bryant said:
I'm not ignoring anything. Just because Stic was directly involved with the project does not disprove the original claim.

There's questions that you refuse to acknowledge or just haven't objectively considered.

If someone is being accused as a ghostwriter, what advantages does that person have by admitting it?

Are there any well known ghostwriters who openly admit who they have written songs or composed reference tracks for?

If not, then why is that the case?


I believe Stic has a reputation to protect, to show that anything in the form of ghostwriting or other matters that are confidential, he will not disclose. I think most of us believe that having anyone write your material is frowned upon in Hip-Hop, so this is understandable.

So, once again... I'm not ignoring what Stic is saying. Honestly, I would expect this from him.

If he really wanted to dead all of this on the spot, or if he had the power to... he would drop video footage. If he doesn't have it, then fine. The whole thing goes unresolved.

Also, just because everyone (which is like who? 3 people?) have similar stories, does not mean that they could all be lying. History has proven this. This isn't something that's completely unique here.

I see what you're trying to say with the whole "if she said this"... angle..but the fact of the matter is...she didn't. Her reputation in this industry goes as far back as Nas, Stic.man, Jay-Z, longer than Electronica... and so on. She's just as credible as a source, as Nas is when it comes to being a top 5 lyricist of all time.

Why do u think it's more plausible that Nas,Jay, and Sticman are all lying and that Dream Hampton is telling the truth or is correct in her a.ssumption that what she heard in reference tracks are indeed proof of ghostwriting.

After all their might be a reason for this and still doesnt outright prove Nas didnt write the tracks. Right?

She said she heard 6 reference songs but didnt elaborate on the details.
Are these Whole entire songs, Verses, Hooks etc.?
She didnt say.

The burden of proof falls on her. Does she have these reference tracks in her possession?
Can we confirm that they Exist?
 5 years ago '06        #88
Menelek 5 heat pts
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 ash1990 said:
You know what I'm talking about, E.G THE IRS NAS THREAD,
btw I've noticed you cosign anything that says negatives things about nas
Ive noticed that too about Hovi Bryant.

Not to mention those are both ppl Nas Dissed.
 5 years ago '10        #89
Hovi Bryant 676 heat pts676
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 Menelek said:
Why do u think it's more plausible that Nas,Jay, and Sticman are all lying and that Dream Hampton is telling the truth or is correct in her a.ssumption that what she heard in reference tracks are indeed proof of ghostwriting.

After all their might be a reason for this and still doesnt outright prove Nas didnt write the tracks. Right?

She said she heard 6 reference songs but didnt elaborate on the details.
Are these Whole entire songs, Verses, Hooks etc.?
She didnt say.

The burden of proof falls on her. Does she have these reference tracks in her possession?
Can we confirm that they Exist?
Why? What ghostwriter do you know names their clients? That's the first reason why I believe Dream.

Secondly, as from what I can understand, Dream has no current projects. So why would she do this for attention? Could she be doing this out of spite? Is there any history of her acting this way? Such possibilities are shaky at best. Combined with her history of being an insider within the Hip-Hop community, gives me reason to believe Dream.

Third, nothing surprises me within the entertainment, sports, and political worlds. Dream isn't the first whistle-blower and certainly isn't the last. That's my third reason for believing her.

So, once again...I believe what she's saying, but I can't pass it off as the truth to anyone else. Which some of you believe I'm doing. That's not how society works here, but sadly that's how most of us perceive sh*t anyway.

So just like there isn't any reference tapes to prove she's right, there isn't any video or audio or any other means of proving Stic. Man correct either. It goes both ways. As long as you understand that, I don't care who you choose to believe. It doesn't take away from who Nas is.
 5 years ago '10        #90
Hovi Bryant 676 heat pts676
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 Menelek said:
Ive noticed that too about Hovi Bryant.

Not to mention those are both ppl Nas Dissed.
Really? This too?

Anyone else have this pre-conceived notion of Nas hate coming from me? Pull it up, I'm waiting to see what you find.
 5 years ago '05        #91
WCIB 111 heat pts111
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 Hovi Bryant said:
Somehow, you're right after all of this?

The firsthand account of Stic. Man is proof? The fact that Dream Hampton doesn't have any is also proof? I think I've repeated that both sides don't have any in every post, yet in the end...you were always right?

Mentally, something is missing with you.
 Hovi Bryant said:
You got a bunch of stans and haters quick to take sides...bloggers and news sites using whatever quotes they can get to generate hits... man it's ugly.

All of this with nothing concrete. So, really it's a non issue. I'm just disgusted with Nas' fans, haters alike...and Dream Hampton's ignorance of her actions. Because I believe she's telling the truth. The fact of the matter, you can't say sh*t like that without evidence.
 Hovi Bryant said:
No, I didn't contradict myself.

I don't need proof to believe in anything.
 Hovi Bryant said:
It doesn't seem like a stretch at all. Given the fact that the artist were talking about is Nas... At first glance it looks like a big stretch, but in the reality of this industry, nothing really is.
 Hovi Bryant said:
When I said I believe Dream is telling the truth, it's based on numerous reasons.
 Hovi Bryant said:
You don't need proof to believe in what someone says. I think you, I, and pretty much anyone who has chosen a side has proved that much.

Just because more people share the same story or opinion, does not give more credibility. Regardless of the amount of detail.

Anyone can lie, short or elaborate. It's been done before.

There's only one fact in the matter of this: there's no proof on either side.
 Hovi Bryant said:
I haven't called anyone anything. I'm saying the door is wide open for inturpretation on both sides.
look at what you've said here. You say that you believe her. You believe she's telling the truth. You've gone out of your way to say that you have numerous reasons why you believe her, yet you haven't mentioned any reasons why Stic.Man and Jay Electronica AREN'T lying. you claim you can see both sides, yet you were very quick to point out that Stic.Man and Jay have every reason to lie did you not? i can agree with that, except for the fact that you said that it's possible Dream is lying too. Did you not say that anyone can lie? so why did you get offended when i called her a liar? i'm only reiterating what you yourself said, correct?

i believe that Stic and Jay are telling the truth. you refuse to acknowledge my side of the argument yet, you ignore every time i said that anything is possible, which acknowledges your side might be true. Jay and Stic go into incredible detail of how the recording/producing sessions went. so it goes from lying to complete story telling? they ghostwrote entire songs for Untitled and allowed Nas to not give them the credit they deserve? who's stretching things here? don't forget that this happened 4 years ago.... why the fu*k is she bringing up now, just as Nas is enjoying this success? quite the coincidence. no?

back to the topic though. yes she MIGHT be telling the truth. but so can stic, jay and nas.

every point that's been made counter to yours have been given the reply by you, 'hey, everyone lies. just because they SAY it doesn't mean it's true.' yeah no sh*t. you simply saying that doesn't take anything away from Stic and Jay's statements vehemently denying the accusations.

you say you don't need proof to believe anything? well that's clear. you let one tweet give credence to what's essentially unsubstantiated bullsh*t and yet, i'm the one who has critical thinking problems? just because the majority says something is true doesn't make it so, right?

so what does one person saying something that she hasn't/can't back up tell you? anyone can lie right? you need proof to say something as fact which is what she did. she didn't say "oh i heard this from someone..." NO. she said she heard the demos and that she knew for a fact this happened.

so you need proof. where is it? you lost for stating that you don't need proof. anyone can believe that the earth is going to end tomorrow, but two days from now, when you're still alive, the person that made that claim is going to be called an idiot. you're the idiot as of now until she brings something feasible to the table. that is all.
 5 years ago '06        #92
Menelek 5 heat pts
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 Hovi Bryant said:
Why? What ghostwriter do you know names their clients? That's the first reason why I believe Dream.

Secondly, as from what I can understand, Dream has no current projects. So why would she do this for attention? Could she be doing this out of spite? Is there any history of her acting this way? Such possibilities are shaky at best. Combined with her history of being an insider within the Hip-Hop community, gives me reason to believe Dream.

Third, nothing surprises me within the entertainment, sports, and political worlds. Dream isn't the first whistle-blower and certainly isn't the last. That's my third reason for believing her.

So, once again...I believe what she's saying, but I can't pass it off as the truth to anyone else. Which some of you believe I'm doing. That's not how society works here, but sadly that's how most of us perceive sh*t anyway.

So just like there isn't any reference tapes to prove she's right, there isn't any video or audio or any other means of proving Stic. Man correct either. It goes both ways. As long as you understand that, I don't care who you choose to believe. It doesn't take away from who Nas is.
Yeah but these arent really ghost writers . There actual rappers that put out albums. Its not like their livelihood is at stake. Sticman and Jay Elect are not some ghostwriters that are behind the scenes that nobody has heard of, that dont put out their own albums and they could actually benefit from saying they wrote arguably Rap's best lyricist.

As to your second point. I could easily say what reason does Nas have to use Ghostwriters? His pen game has been celebrated for years.

You seem Incline to believe one person and their credibility over three.

Maybee your just cynical or a little bias.
 5 years ago '11        #93
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 noverum said:
in·teg·ri·ty/inˈtegritē/
Noun:
The quality of being honest and having strong moral principles; moral uprightness.


So telling the public only what the industry wants them to hear so that you get greater access to juicier sources is your definition of journalistic integrity? As far as I'm concerned, that's the definition of corruption.

cor·rup·tion/kəˈrəpSHən/
Noun:
Dishonest or fraudulent conduct by those in power, typically involving bribery.
Lol you just don't get it, I swear crack babies got it bad.

But I'll break it down in a simple way

Say you got a girl but u fucc'n a broad on the side, you tell yo boy about it, and tell em not to tell nobody about it especially yo girl. Well he goes and tells her friends about it and they tell yo girl, now she shakes you cause of ol boy running his mouth. You saying that was a cool an honest thing he did? Yell™
 5 years ago '10        #94
Hovi Bryant 676 heat pts676
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 WCIB said:
look at what you've said here. You say that you believe her. You believe she's telling the truth. You've gone out of your way to say that you have numerous reasons why you believe her, yet you haven't mentioned any reasons why Stic.Man and Jay Electronica AREN'T lying. you claim you can see both sides, yet you were very quick to point out that Stic.Man and Jay have every reason to lie did you not? i can agree with that, except for the fact that you said that it's possible Dream is lying too. Did you not say that anyone can lie? so why did you get offended when i called her a liar? i'm only reiterating what you yourself said, correct?

i believe that Stic and Jay are telling the truth. you refuse to acknowledge my side of the argument yet, you ignore every time i said that anything is possible, which acknowledges your side might be true. Jay and Stic go into incredible detail of how the recording/producing sessions went. so it goes from lying to complete story telling? they ghostwrote entire songs for Untitled and allowed Nas to not give them the credit they deserve? who's stretching things here? don't forget that this happened 4 years ago.... why the fu*k is she bringing up now, just as Nas is enjoying this success? quite the coincidence. no?

back to the topic though. yes she MIGHT be telling the truth. but so can stic, jay and nas.

every point that's been made counter to yours have been given the reply by you, 'hey, everyone lies. just because they SAY it doesn't mean it's true.' yeah no sh*t. you simply saying that doesn't take anything away from Stic and Jay's statements vehemently denying the accusations.

you say you don't need proof to believe anything? well that's clear. you let one tweet give credence to what's essentially unsubstantiated bullsh*t and yet, i'm the one who has critical thinking problems? just because the majority says something is true doesn't make it so, right?

so what does one person saying something that she hasn't/can't back up tell you? anyone can lie right? you need proof to say something as fact which is what she did. she didn't say "oh i heard this from someone..." NO. she said she heard the demos and that she knew for a fact this happened.

so you need proof. where is it? you lost for stating that you don't need proof. anyone can believe that the earth is going to end tomorrow, but two days from now, when you're still alive, the person that made that claim is going to be called an idiot. you're the idiot as of now until she brings something feasible to the table. that is all.
I haven't given any reasons as to why Stic. Man and Electronica could be telling the truth because you and others continue to suggest Hampton is in the wrong with no evidence either way. I think that much should be obvious.

On top of that, why should I? I'm not claiming they're liars or claiming that Dream is telling the truth. I gave my reasoning as to why I believe her, as Stic. Man and Elec have given their own reasons as to why you should believe them. Which has been repeated several times.

You really have no argument besides trying to claim that Stic. Man's response and Hampton's lack of evidence is the end all be all. Where it went from there, it doesn't matter. You were wrong, and now you're dragging this into oblivion. Foolish.
 5 years ago '10        #95
Hovi Bryant 676 heat pts676
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 Menelek said:
Yeah but these arent really ghost writers . There actual rappers that put out albums. Its not like their livelihood is at stake. Sticman and Jay Elect are not some ghostwriters that are behind the scenes that nobody has heard of, that dont put out their own albums and they could actually benefit from saying they wrote arguably Rap's best lyricist.

As to your second point. I could easily say what reason does Nas have to use Ghostwriters? His pen game has been celebrated for years.

You seem Incline to believe one person and their credibility over three.

Maybee your just cynical or a little bias.
Yeah, but...where's your proof of that?

Really, who's on record as a ghost writer with named clients on their resume? I don't know how the world of ghostwriting works besides whoever is caught is immediately frowned upon. Maybe it's like that for a reason? Images to protect, credibility to ensure? No?

These are questions that can't be answered by any of us, yet you go on.

Your logic is flawed. Making claims on top of unsubstantiated opinions and claims isn't getting you anywhere with me.
 5 years ago '06        #96
Menelek 5 heat pts
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 Hovi Bryant said:
Yeah, but...where's your proof of that?

Really, who's on record as a ghost writer with named clients on their resume? I don't know how the world of ghostwriting works besides whoever is caught is immediately frowned upon. Maybe it's like that for a reason? Images to protect, credibility to ensure? No?

These are questions that can't be answered by any of us, yet you go on.

Your logic is flawed. Making claims on top of unsubstantiated opinions and claims isn't getting you anywhere with me.
Proof of what? what are u talking about?

Proof that Jay and Stic are established artist?


You claim Stic and Jay could be lying because they dont wanna mess up their Ghost writing money. Right?

First, its not established that they are even ghostwriters.
Two, If they do Ghostwrite their not the type that is strictly behind the scenes. They put out work under their own names.
Third, Which means they could possibly benefit from telling on nas ,as in they can sell their albums with the publicity.

Rappers beef and Slander other rappers all the time for shine.

All of that is either a fact or plausible.


As Far as me saying your probably cynical or bias.

Wasnt it you who said you believe Hampton because things like this happen in politics, the music industry, whistle blowers etc.

Doesnt that suggest you might have a cynical disposition.

Bias:
Isnt your Scream name Hovi Bryant? Arent You a Fan of jay Z. Arent you a Fan of Kobe Bryant.
Didnt Nas Viciously diss both these ppl? Arent Fans of Artist, generally Bias against Artist who diss their Fav Artist?

Im not pulling this out my a.ss. And Ive read your comments in countless thread and From what I recall generally speaking it wasnt in Favor of Nas.

Nas and Them Could be lying but You havent listed any reasons that Trump the other side just a willingness to believe Hampton over everybody.
 5 years ago '05        #97
WCIB 111 heat pts111
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 Hovi Bryant said:
I haven't given any reasons as to why Stic. Man and Electronica could be telling the truth because you and others continue to suggest Hampton is in the wrong with no evidence either way. I think that much should be obvious.

On top of that, why should I? I'm not claiming they're liars or claiming that Dream is telling the truth. I gave my reasoning as to why I believe her, as Stic. Man and Elec have given their own reasons as to why you should believe them. Which has been repeated several times.

You really have no argument besides trying to claim that Stic. Man's response and Hampton's lack of evidence is the end all be all. Where it went from there, it doesn't matter. You were wrong, and now you're dragging this into oblivion. Foolish.
Of course it's obvious. That's you talking in circles and avoiding the topic at hand so let's get back to it:

'Testimony' is not proof. We can agree. The link I provided is proof enough to me, which is more than I can say about Dream who wasn't involved with the project and saw nothing and who has no incredible detail of nothing. You're taking her at her word, with no details on her part, other than 'she heard some tapes?'

Okay, from where? Who gave them to you? Who played them for you? Show me this person who played them for her and I'll believe her ESPECIALLY if there are tapes he or she can provide! What you fail to realize, and this is why I don't believe her, besides her 'lack of evidence'; she's so respected within the hip-hop community and has all this credibility and clout, yet not one person has stepped up to the plate for her? Not one? Not even an engineer who was there that can simply say, 'Yeah I was there and she's right.' Which proves nothing as you'd say and I agree... But not even that? Your 'running in circles' response is the majority does not equal truth. That's right. But you would also take the word of someone with firsthand knowledge over someone who was never there yes? On September 11th would you listen to the testimony of someone who was in one of the buildings and survived or the testimony of someone who was in Kansas at the time if we're talking about what it's like to survive a plane crashing into a building? I know who I would choose. You're running with Kansas.

In a court of law, Stic. And Jay would be key witnesses to an event only THEY can speak on and what is a testimony other than an account of the truth as you see it correct? So with that said, Dream's testimony is HER truth.

So let's put it together. I have no argument according to you, yes? Dream's lack of evidence? Forget lack, there's nothing to back up her claim! Stic and Jay go into incredible detail of how, she isn't telling the truth, hence lying, and your response to that is everybody lies.

Fine, if I think she's lying and you think Stic and Jay are lying, and stop saying you haven't said that because you imply it by saying you believe Dream...saying otherwise is fantastically stupid on your part, then the BURDEN OF PROOF LIES ON THE ACCUSER. I've been right on this all along, and you won't admit you're wrong about it. Then again, you don't need proof to believe anything, right? Your words not mine. Until she can prove she isn't alone in her claims, then it's unproven, slanderous lies. Plain and simple.
 5 years ago '05        #98
WCIB 111 heat pts111
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 Menelek said:
Proof of what? what are u talking about?

Proof that Jay and Stic are established artist?


You claim Stic and Jay could be lying because they dont wanna mess up their Ghost writing money. Right?

First, its not established that they are even ghostwriters.
Two, If they do Ghostwrite their not the type that is strictly behind the scenes. They put out work under their own names.
Third, Which means they could possibly benefit from telling on nas ,as in they can sell their albums with the publicity.

Rappers beef and Slander other rappers all the time for shine.

All of that is either a fact or plausible.


As Far as me saying your probably cynical or bias.

Wasnt it you who said you believe Hampton because things like this happen in politics, the music industry, whistle blowers etc.

Doesnt that suggest you might have a cynical disposition.

Bias:
Isnt your Scream name Hovi Bryant? Arent You a Fan of jay Z. Arent you a Fan of Kobe Bryant.
Didnt Nas Viciously diss both these ppl? Arent Fans of Artist, generally Bias against Artist who diss their Fav Artist?

Im not pulling this out my a.ss. And Ive read your comments in countless thread and From what I recall generally speaking it wasnt in Favor of Nas.

Nas and Them Could be lying but You havent listed any reasons that Trump the other side just a willingness to believe Hampton over everybody.
 5 years ago '12        #99
King Jaffe Joe 23 heat pts23
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at hovi getting ether'd
 08-18-2012, 04:09 AM         #100
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Hovi a fu*kin idiot.
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