Jun 28 - Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law

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 5 years ago '07        #221
Ham Rove 3511 heat pts3511
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 surreyjack said:
you are n complete moron if you believe they really want campaign finance reform. they only say that kind of sh*t to trick dummies like you. why the fu*k would they do that honestly? where would they get their money from? thats the only reason anybody runs for president now so they can get cash from corporations. obama has has held more campaign fundraisers than the last 5 presidents combined fyi.

you are one of the dumbest posters on this site cant believe that was the only thing you could come up with on how they are different. obama is carrying on with bush policy its all the same fu*king sh*t theres only one agenda.
@ Calling me dumb, yeah they only talk about it to trick people. And no you are one of the dumbest people on this site, you're another one of these conspiracy clowns, go ahead post some more youtube videos. And Obama has done a lot of fundraisers,. you know why? Cause hes getting outspent by LOTS of corporate dollars on the Republican side, how about you get a basic understanding of whats going on, before posting on here and making an a.ss out of yourself you fu*king clown.


Last edited by Ham Rove; 06-29-2012 at 06:47 PM..
 5 years ago '05        #222
dmunson318 
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White folk just mad that they didn't think of it first.
 5 years ago '07        #223
Ham Rove 3511 heat pts3511
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 Play4keepz32 said:
Wonders where this day will rank as one of the worst days in american history will be top 5 top 10 easy only time will tell how bad
idiot
 5 years ago '04        #224
JBeezy 1 heat pts
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The confidence that people have in the federal government is staggering. The government has been knee deep in insurance for decades and there are people that actually think more involvement is the answer

I'm sure the FDA has had nothing to do with big pharmaceutical companies banking billions by making it virtually impossible for alternative drugs to enter the marketplace. Who do you think is lobbying for the feds to violate states' rights and raid medical marijuana dispensaries?

I'm sure guaranteed government contracts haven't helped companies like Blue Cross/Blue Shield screw over customers for years. Do you really think BC/BS would be able to survive in the market without those contracts? Is it the government trying to save money that prompts BC/BS not to cover routine, yearly physicals or to drop 90 year old people in the hospital from coverage because they didn't return a Verification of Coverage letter, or is it insurance companies just being jerks?

The feds have lied to get us into war. They have destroyed public education and driven tuition costs through the roof they sure did a number on the housing market. But even despite the massive involvement already in healthcare, people keep running back to them like lost puppies expecting a miraculous turnaround.
 5 years ago '04        #225
JBeezy 1 heat pts
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Employer-Provided Health Insurance

Perhaps the most important cause of rising healthcare prices in America is the employer-provided health-insurance system. The very existence of the system is itself a very strange occurrence and a big hint that government intervention played a key role in its creation. After all, employers do not pay for food or gasoline; why do they pay for healthcare?

Employer-provided health insurance has its origin in a tax policy passed in 1943, which made insurance provided by employers tax free. At the time the United States was engaged in World War II and had enacted wage and price controls,[5] preventing employers from competing for scarce labor using the normal mechanism of offering a higher salary. Instead, businesses used the availability of newly tax-subsidized healthcare as a means of differentiating themselves.

The tax advantages were made even more attractive and fully codified in the 1954 Internal Revenue Code. Over the next few decades, the government's subsidization of employer-provided health insurance lead to the dominance of that model of healthcare delivery, as the following data from the 1965 Sourcebook of Health Insurance Data makes clear.The most important economic consequence of the existence of the employer-provided health insurance is that consumers are much less likely to discriminate on cost. Beyond the deductible, the employer pays the cost of medical procedures through an insurance company. As anyone who has gone on a business trip knows, if the company is paying, then the employee is likely to purchase a more expensive ticket and accommodation. Where an economy ticket may have sufficed for a personal budget, a business-class ticket becomes far more attractive.

Not only are consumers less likely to discriminate on cost, but providers of healthcare services have greater incentive to provide medical treatments that are only marginally more effective at much higher cost. This is the opposite of how the price mechanism works in a free market, where consumers (who are paying out of their own pocket) search for the cheapest prices and providers work hard to provide services that are equally efficacious but less costly.
"The real problem with the American healthcare system is that prices are continually rising, greatly outpacing the rate of inflation, making healthcare unaffordable to an ever-increasing fraction of the population — particularly those without insurance."

While employer-provided health insurance undermined price sensitivity among consumers, it did not completely destroy it. Businesses, being profit-maximizing organizations, have an incentive to push back when costs increase. However, because of privacy concerns, businesses are less able to push back against rising healthcare than they are for plane tickets. An employer is less likely to pry into the cost effectiveness of a particular surgical procedure undertaken by an employee than they would be to pry into the purchase of a substantially more expensive first-class plane ticket.

In 1965, Medicare was passed as part of the Social Security Act, essentially supplying employer-provided health insurance to all citizens above the age of 65. However, the "employer" in this case was the US government, which does not have the same economic incentives as a business, but rather has political incentives. Elected officials have a strong incentive to promise their elderly constituents an expansion in the range of treatments covered by Medicare, as well as to lower the deductible that Medicare consumers pay out of their own pocket. Both these factors further undermine a consumer's desire to discriminate on cost when seeking medical treatments.

In 1960, the government covered 21 percent of total medical expenditures with 55 percent coming out of consumer pockets. In 2000, 43 percent were covered by the government with 17 percent coming out of pocket. Unsurprisingly, the passing of Medicare in 1965 almost immediately lead to a precipitous rise in US healthcare spending as a fraction of GDP.

While price sensitivity has widely been undermined in the American healthcare system, there remain some exceptions to the rule, where the normal market mechanism remains intact. I gave two examples to the students of how price sensitivity is working in healthcare today in order to illustrate how it would work in a free market.

The first example was the LASIK corrective-vision procedure, which has become very popular over the last decade. LASIK is an elective procedure that is not covered by standard insurance, and consumers must pay directly for the service — which means that they are much more likely to discriminate between providers both on cost and reported quality of the surgeon. With these incentives in place, the LASIK procedure has been reported to have fallen in cost by over 30 percent during the last decade.[6]

Even more importantly, the quality of the procedure has improved dramatically in that period as providers competed to deliver the most efficacious treatment. According to Erik Gross, an expert in the field of LASIK technology,
 5 years ago '07        #226
Ham Rove 3511 heat pts3511
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 J Rob said:
Let's see....

9/11, Pearl Harbor, JFK a.ssassination, MLK a.ssassination, Lincoln a.ssassination....welp, there goes Top 5


ummm......Hurricane Katrina, the market crash that started the Great Depression......that's 7 off top....but I have a feeling that Obamacare won't rank that highly on this list. Hell, I'd say the Columbine, Virgina Tech, and the OKC bombing could round out the Top 10
 5 years ago '05        #227
chi town hustla 194 heat pts194
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i just find it funny that people who are not in the 1% of wealth in this country taught they had a voice in decisions for this country or had rights that was not dictated to them by the government ignorance is bliss.

know i guest that false illusion of america being a society of freedom has been removed from everybody mines
this is a great day!!
 06-30-2012, 03:35 PM         #228
surreyjack 
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 NoTitleSince73 said:
@ Calling me dumb, yeah they only talk about it to trick people. And no you are one of the dumbest people on this site, you're another one of these conspiracy clowns, go ahead post some more youtube videos. And Obama has done a lot of fundraisers,. you know why? Cause hes getting outspent by LOTS of corporate dollars on the Republican side, how about you get a basic understanding of whats going on, before posting on here and making an a.ss out of yourself you fu*king clown.
You are fu*king dumb you are always losing arguments because you don't know sh*t you're just a troll. I brought up that fact because you said they wanted to reform campaign financing which is BS hes setting records on sucking d!ck for money. and they did fool you.
I havent posted any youtube videos in this tread and I havent said anything that would make me a conspiracy theorist you ALWAYS make up sh*t in arguments. You never f!ght back with facts just lame a.ss insults so you can bait people into arguments because you never have any idea what you're tlaking about.


Last edited by surreyjack; 06-30-2012 at 03:42 PM..
 06-30-2012, 03:57 PM         #229
Bob Sacamano 
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 SlickJ101 said:
This fu*king c*cksucker.

Buy insurance or we fine you 2k, how is that not unconstitutional?
Its a tax incentive you nitwit. Do you know what happens if you don't pay social security taxes on your income? You go to jail... You talkin out your a.ss.

And where I'm from car insurance in mandated, this sh*t it far from unprecedented and there are many various tax incentives on the books already.
 5 years ago '04        #230
abstractq 5 heat pts
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the mandate thats in obamacare is similar to what some eurropean nations use

they pay less for health care and perform better than our health care system


so whats the problem
 5 years ago '08        #231
tdnupe3 9 heat pts
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 abstractq said:
the mandate thats in obamacare is similar to what some eurropean nations use

they pay less for health care and perform better than our health care system


so whats the problem
A black democrat was able to get done what "they" have been "trying" to get done for decades. "They" were for almost every single provision, until Obama came along and wanted to implement them.

The discourse in this country has gotten to the point of dangerous. I fear the near future will bring about something drastic if the rhetoric continues. People are complaining about something that helps them. I don't understand what the problem is.

I am usually against the federal gov mandating ANYTHING, but this is regarding life and death. If you can't afford it, you will receive a tax credit to help you pay for it. What's the problem. If you decide not to get insurance, then the penalty may be cheaper than insurance for you. What's the problem?

Instead of blaming Obama, why don't you blame insurance companies that have driven the costs of healthcare so high that it has become unaffordable for someone that doesn't want to buy, or can't afford, their expensive and crooked policies. Before this, an insurance company would drop your a.ss the second you became sick with a life threatening illness, and you want to complain about the Affordable Care Act instead of being pissed at insurance companies for putting shareholder wealth above the lives of their policy holders.

Some of you guys amaze me at the amount of hate you have for this man. Is he perfect, HELL NO. But use common sense and realize that this is at least a step in the right direction.


Last edited by tdnupe3; 06-30-2012 at 05:17 PM..
 5 years ago '08        #232
tdnupe3 9 heat pts
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 tupacnasfan said:
It's still wrong reguardless and nobama aka obama is bought and paid for by the insurance companies and others.
he sure don't give a sh*t about us, just like the rest of them parasites in washington d.c.

Alex Jones is right.

Alex Jones makes some good points, but he makes it hard for me to take him serious. He goes WAY OUT THERE with his theories and propoganda. I'll be the first person to say that there are behind the curtain agendas in DC and the rest of the world governments, but when you begin talking about world leaders being aliens and lizards, that's where I have to draw the line.

As to the topic of discussion, how can you say that obama is bought and paid for by insurance companies, when in the long run, his legislation will force insurance companies to lower their costs THUS lowering the costs of healthcare in general? I understand your logic to a certain extent, and I somewhat agree, but he wouldn't have been able to get in office in an effort to commence change (if even in the slightest bit) without having used America's corporate interests a little.

Another problem is the fact that banking and insurance companies are feeding from the same stream in the sense that the insurance companies are more inerested in investment banking, collateralized debt obligations, and insurance wraps (to name a few) than they are about providing a good service to their customers. Health insurance and healthcare should all be not for profit.

The second you put someone's health and their life on a balance sheet, it begins to be counterproductive to provide the BEST care for them.
 5 years ago '04        #233
abstractq 5 heat pts
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 tupacnasfan said:
It's still wrong reguardless and nobama aka obama is bought and paid for by the insurance companies and others.
he sure don't give a sh*t about us, just like the rest of them parasites in washington d.c.

Alex Jones is right.

the previous medical care system was broken

there is no way of providing health care without the preexisting condition problem unless you

1) make it illegal to deny people coverage

or

2) have a government run option for people who have preexisting conditions

now. . .we're rapidly approaching a time where insurance companies can scan your DNA at birth and determine if you are insurable or not. So this preexisting condition problem was only going to get worse

so something had to be done. . .I was in favor of the govt option

but they went with option 1. . .the only way to make option 1 work is if everyone has to buy insurance. Otherwise, theyd wait until they got sck, then cop insurance and insurers wouldnt be able to deny


so whats wrong about that? Or rather. . .how is it better to stay with the status quo where only the rich can afford health care? Again this system is run in switzerland I believe. . .more people have access there, they get high qality health care, and they spend less on health care than we do

soooooooooooooooooooooooooo. . . .yeah
 5 years ago '07        #234
Ham Rove 3511 heat pts3511
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 surreyjack said:
You are fu*king dumb you are always losing arguments because you don't know sh*t you're just a troll. I brought up that fact because you said they wanted to reform campaign financing which is BS hes setting records on sucking d!ck for money. and they did fool you.
I havent posted any youtube videos in this tread and I havent said anything that would make me a conspiracy theorist you ALWAYS make up sh*t in arguments. You never f!ght back with facts just lame a.ss insults so you can bait people into arguments because you never have any idea what you're tlaking about.
they proposed a constitutional amendment for campaign finance reform so try again, you're a conspiracy riddled moron. I've seen your threads, like the "Obamas real dad" bullsh*t. You ever wanna have a debate based on facts let me know, until then you get ignored like the rest of these alex jones loving clowns. Oh and how does my d!ck taste clown?


Last edited by Ham Rove; 06-30-2012 at 10:10 PM..
 06-30-2012, 10:25 PM         #235
surreyjack 
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 NoTitleSince73 said:
they proposed a constitutional amendment for campaign finance reform so try again, you're a conspiracy riddled moron. I've seen your threads, like the "Obamas real dad" bullsh*t. You ever wanna have a debate based on facts let me know, until then you get ignored like the rest of these alex jones loving clowns. Oh and how does my d!ck taste clown?
lmfao fu*kign sheep if obama wanted to change it he would have he does whatever the fu*k he wants to do. under his presidency the law changed and corporations are considered people so they can donate how ever much they want. he doesnt want any reform go look at all his biggest donors they're bankers and they're richer than ever...no coincidence there though its all a conspiracy!!!!!!!!

you're considered an idiot by all the intelligent people on here so your insults carry no weight.

stop with the alex jones sh*t this isnt 2006 anymore if you dont see how the Government is completely corrupt and becoming authoritarian...well you are an idiot so of course you dont believe that.


Last edited by surreyjack; 06-30-2012 at 10:29 PM..
 5 years ago '07        #236
Ham Rove 3511 heat pts3511
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 surreyjack said:
lmfao fu*kign sheep if obama wanted to change it he would have he does whatever the fu*k he wants to do. under his presidency the law changed and corporations are considered people so they can donate how ever much they want. he doesnt want any reform go look at all his biggest donors they're bankers and they're richer than ever...no coincidence there though its all a conspiracy!!!!!!!!

you're considered an idiot by all the intelligent people on here so your insults carry no weight.
You're an idiot, Obama just cant alter the constitution moron. And the Citizens United case hes opposed to, thats the supreme court, he cant overturn supreme court decisions. But you're smarter than me so you would know that right? And Im considered an idiot by morons like yourself, since you wouldn't talk to any of the "intelligent" people since you're an idiot of massive levels. Again k!ll yourself. Also Obamas top 5 campaign contributors are the University of California $1,648,685, Goldman Sachs $1,013,091, Harvard University gave $878,164, Microsoft $852,167, and google gave $814,540. sooo they aren't all bankers dip sh*t, and what you think Romneys isnt?


btw in case youre confused, those are all facts, nothing you said was factual. In closing, you're a fu*king moron.


Last edited by Ham Rove; 06-30-2012 at 10:35 PM..
 06-30-2012, 10:37 PM         #237
surreyjack 
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 NoTitleSince73 said:
You're an idiot, Obama just cant alter the constitution moron. And the Citizens United case hes opposed to, thats the supreme court, he cant overturn supreme court decisions. But you're smarter than me so you would know that right? And Im considered an idiot by morons like yourself, since you wouldn't talk to any of the "intelligent" people since you're an idiot of massive levels. Again k!ll yourself.


btw in case youre confused, those are all facts, nothing you said was factual. In closing, you're a fu*king moron.
Obama doesnt give a fu*k about the constitution take NDAA for example. and how dumb are you seriously? hes taking any money he can get hes not refusing ANY of it hes even asking people for there wedding and brithday gifts and you believe he wants to change that any of that. him wanting to reform campaign financing is just a big of a lie as when he said he wouldnt have any lobbyists. you probably believe he doesnt.

nothing I said was fact? so coroproations arent considered people now, and Obamas biggest supporters arent bankers? smh why am I arguing with you everybody else just ignores your dumbass you clearly know nothing and are a self appointed political expert...you're the glenn beck of this board

edit: dont forget
JPMorgan Chase & Co $808,799
Citigroup Inc $736,771
UBS AG $532,674
Morgan Stanley $512,232


Last edited by surreyjack; 06-30-2012 at 10:39 PM..
 5 years ago '07        #238
Ham Rove 3511 heat pts3511
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 surreyjack said:
Obama doesnt give a fu*k about the constitution take NDAA for example. and how dumb are you seriously? hes taking any money he can get hes not refusing ANY of it hes even asking people for there wedding and brithday gifts and you believe he wants to change that any of that.

nothing I said was fact? so coroproations arent considered people now, and Obamas biggest supporters arent bankers? smh why am I arguing with you everybody else just ignores your dumbass you clearly know nothing and are a self appointed political expert...you're the glenn beck of this board
I just gave you the biggest obama supporters 4/5 are schools or tech companies. So no they aren't bankers you mental midget. and if ur gonna mention those other banks who aren't even in his top 5 of donors, might as well name the rest Time Warner Sidley Austin LLP Stanford University National Amusements Inc WilmerHale LLP Columbia University Skadden, Arps et al UBS AG, IBM Corp. Look @ all of those banks I just refuted everything you said and your only response is "you're the glenn beck of this board" blah blah. you're a fu*king moron and you bring nothing to the table. And why should he just turn away money from the banks? They give to BOTH sides, why disarm yourself against the opposition? Idk why im even asking these reasonable questions since you're a fu*king moron who can't articulate anything resembling a point. Again k!ll yourself. and everyone ignores me? Don't think so. But I'm sure as hell about to start ignoring your extra chromosome having a.ss.


Last edited by Ham Rove; 06-30-2012 at 10:43 PM..
 06-30-2012, 10:42 PM         #239
surreyjack 
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 NoTitleSince73 said:
I just gave you the biggest obama supporters 4/5 are schools or tech companies. So no they aren't bankers you mental midget. I just refuted everything you said and your only response is "you're the glenn beck of this board" blah blah. you're a fu*king moron and you bring nothing to the table. And why should he just turn away money from the banks? They give to BOTH sides, why disarm yourself against the opposition? Idk why im even asking these reasonable questions since you're a fu*king moron who can't articulate anything resembling a point. Again k!ll yourself. and everyone ignores me? Don't think so. But I'm sure as hell about to start ignoring your extra chromosome having a.ss.
why wouldn't he turn it down if he wants reform??? he doesnt want to change anything you're too dumb to see that was just another lie obama said thats what ive been trying to say. you know im right but your ego wont let you admit it. you convintely forgot to mention these
JPMorgan Chase & Co $808,799
Citigroup Inc $736,771
UBS AG $532,674
Morgan Stanley $512,232

fu*k your dumb man


Last edited by surreyjack; 06-30-2012 at 10:46 PM..
 5 years ago '07        #240
Ham Rove 3511 heat pts3511
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 surreyjack said:
why wouldn't he turn it down if he wants reform??? he doesnt want to change anything you're too dumb to see that was just another lie obama said.
Are you retarded, what happens when he turns that money down? Hes playing by the rules the Supreme Court set, and hes already getting outspent by the right, the corporations/banks and wall st are all giving to Mitt Romney at like 2-3 times the rate they gave to Obama. If he turns down their money, while every one else is using them, how does that help him? Oh well that makes too much sense, OBama should be held to a higher standard than everyone else I guess. You're a fu*king moron.

take a look Mitts top donors

[pic - click to view]


its essentially ALL banks.


Last edited by Ham Rove; 06-30-2012 at 10:50 PM..
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