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 06-29-2012, 02:07 AM         #181
surreyjack 
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 NoTitleSince73 said:
love this response, their is stark contrast between them. Yes both parties are on the corporate tit, but they are not the same, only one party is for campaign finance reform, and im not saying the dems are perfect they are corporate sell outs also.
you are n complete moron if you believe they really want campaign finance reform. they only say that kind of sh*t to trick dummies like you. why the fu*k would they do that honestly? where would they get their money from? thats the only reason anybody runs for president now so they can get cash from corporations. obama has has held more campaign fundraisers than the last 5 presidents combined fyi.

you are one of the dumbest posters on this site cant believe that was the only thing you could come up with on how they are different. obama is carrying on with bush policy its all the same fu*king sh*t theres only one agenda.
 06-29-2012, 02:52 AM         #182
ManWithoutFear! 
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Watch me get fired tomorrow on some bullsh*t. -_- lol
 5 years ago '11        #183
Suppafresh 26 heat pts26
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The post in this thread just makes me smh. It's not free healthcare, it requires you to buy health insurance that's affordable to you. How will their be long lines when people? What cause people got health insurance they going to run to the hospital? No what it does is now help promote more prentive medical practices. Like yearly physicals which 90% of you don't do hence he reason disease are caught in the late stages. It actually gets lazy fu*ks from feeding off the system that actually can afford it from abusing it. Don't know how many times I drove by the free clinics ad seen BMW in the parking lot smh. This isn't government insurance it's equal to your parents saying get the fu*k out my house or pay rent.
 5 years ago '05        #184
JayThunder 
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the law is designed to extend health coverage to some 32 million uninsured people, ban insurers from discriminating against those with expensive ailments, and require nearly all Americans to buy insurance or pay penalties.
 5 years ago '05        #185
Quddus 12 heat pts12
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n*ggaz can go out an buy Jordan's and big Tv's they can pay for there healthcare. I am not saying a lot of people black/white/other that are economically challenge are all pinching the systems. But if you go into some neighborhoods you see people putting money towards a material possession when they don't even have health insurance.

That's bad and part of the reason. They have to drive down healthcare. The biggest thing is getting people to get a family physician. This will stop all the unnecessary trips to the ER when you should be going to see your family doctor.
 5 years ago '05        #186
StateProperty88 34 heat pts34
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 shookid said:
guys calm down. this was all a ploy by Roberts to rile up Americans. The people will, and better, have their response in November. Romney '12.
so elect the guy that actually implemented the idea himself?
 06-29-2012, 08:27 AM         #187
Saphire Moore 
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Let me help some you of you sheep understand all of this.....

Already in effect:
• It allows the Food and Drug Administration to approve more generic drugs (making for more competition in the market to drive down prices) ( Citation: An entire section of the bill, called Title VII, is devoted to this, starting on page 747 )
• It increases the rebates on drugs people get through Medicare (so drugs cost less) ( Citation: Page 216, sec. 2501 )
• It establishes a non-profit group, that the government doesn't directly control, PCORI, to study different kinds of treatments to see what works better and is the best use of money. ( Citation: Page 665, sec. 1181 )
• It makes chain restaurants like McDonalds display how many calories are in all of their foods, so people can have an easier time making choices to eat healthy. ( Citation: Page 499, sec. 4205 )
• It makes a "high-risk pool" for people with pre-existing conditions. Basically, this is a way to slowly ease into getting rid of "pre-existing conditions" altogether. For now, people who already have health issues that would be considered "pre-existing conditions" can still get insurance, but at different rates than people without them. ( Citation: Page 30, sec. 1101, Page 45, sec. 2704, and Page 46, sec. 2702 )
• It forbids insurance companies from discriminating based on a disability, or because they were the victim of domestic abuse in the past (yes, insurers really did deny coverage for that) ( Citation: Page 47, sec. 2705 )
• It renews some old policies, and calls for the appointment of various positions.
• It creates a new 10% tax on indoor tanning booths. ( Citation: Page 923, sec. 5000B )
• It says that health insurance companies can no longer tell customers that they won't get any more coverage because they have hit a "lifetime limit". Basically, if someone has paid for health insurance, that company can't tell that person that he's used that insurance too much throughout his life so they won't cover him any more. They can't do this for lifetime spending, and they're limited in how much they can do this for yearly spending. ( Citation: Page 14, sec. 2711 )
• Kids can continue to be covered by their parents' health insurance until they're 26. ( Citation: Page 15, sec. 2714 )
• No more "pre-existing conditions" for kids under the age of 19. ( Citation: Page 45, sec. 2704 and Page 57, sec. 1255 )
• Insurers have less ability to change the amount customers have to pay for their plans. ( Citation: Page 47, sec. 2794 )
• People in a "Medicare Gap" get a rebate to make up for the extra money they would otherwise have to spend. ( Citation: Page 379, sec. 3301 )
• Insurers can't just drop customers once they get sick. ( Citation: Page 14, sec. 2712 )
• Insurers have to tell customers what they're spending money on. (Instead of just "administrative fee", they have to be more specific).
• Insurers need to have an appeals process for when they turn down a claim, so customers have some manner of recourse other than a lawsuit when they're turned down. ( Citation: Page 42, sec. 2719 )
• Anti-fraud funding is increased and new ways to stop fraud are created. ( Citation: Page 699, sec. 6402 )
• Medicare extends to smaller hospitals. ( Citation: Starting on page 344, the entire section "Part II" seems to deal with this )
• Medicare patients with chronic illnesses must be monitored more thoroughly.
• Reduces the costs for some companies that handle benefits for the elderly. ( Citation: Page 492, sec. 4202 )
• A new website is made to give people insurance and health information. (I think this is it: ). ( Citation: Page 36, sec. 1103 )
• A credit program is made that will make it easier for business to invest in new ways to treat illness by paying half the cost of the investment. (Note - this program was temporary. It already ended) ( Citation: Page 830, sec. 9023 )
• A limit is placed on just how much of a percentage of the money an insurer makes can be profit, to make sure they're not price-gouging customers. ( Citation: Page 22, sec. 1101 )
• A limit is placed on what type of insurance accounts can be used to pay for over-the-counter drugs without a prescription. Basically, your insurer isn't paying for the Aspirin you bought for that hangover. ( Citation: Page 800, sec. 9003 )
• Employers need to list the benefits they provided to employees on their tax forms. ( Citation: Page 800, sec. 9002 )
• Any new health plans must provide preventative care (mammograms, colonoscopies, etc.) without requiring any sort of co-pay or charge. ( Citation: Page 14, sec. 2713 )
1/1/2013
• If you make over $200,000 a year, your taxes go up a tiny bit (0.9%). Edit: To address those who take issue with the word "tiny", a change of 0.9% is relatively tiny. Any look at how taxes have fluctuated over the years will reveal that a change of less than one percent is miniscule, especially when we're talking about people in the top 5% of earners. ( Citation: Page 818, sec. 9015 )
1/1/2014
This is when a lot of the really big changes happen.
• No more "pre-existing conditions". At all. People will be charged the same regardless of their medical history. ( Citation: Page 45, sec. 2704, Page 46, sec. 2701, and Page 57, sec. 1255 )
• If you can afford insurance but do not get it, you will be charged a fee. This is the "mandate" that people are talking about. Basically, it's a trade-off for the "pre-existing conditions" bit, saying that since insurers now have to cover you regardless of what you have, you can't just wait to buy insurance until you get sick. Otherwise no one would buy insurance until they needed it. You can opt not to get insurance, but you'll have to pay the fee instead, unless of course you're not buying insurance because you just can't afford it. (Note: On 6/28/12, the Supreme Court ruled that this is Constitutional, as long as it's considered a tax on the uninsured and not a penalty for not buying insurance... nitpicking about wording, mostly, but the long and short of it is, it looks like this is accepted by the courts) ( Citation: Page 145, sec. 5000A, and here is the actual court ruling for those who wish to read it. )
Question: What determines whether or not I can afford the mandate? Will I be forced to pay for insurance I can't afford?
Answer: There are all kinds of checks in place to keep you from getting screwed. Kaiser actually has a webpage with a pretty good rundown on it, if you're worried about it. You can see it here.
Okay, have we got that settled? Okay, moving on...
• Small businesses get some tax credits for two years. (It looks like this is specifically for businesses with 25 or fewer employees) ( Citation: Page 138, sec. 1421 )
• Businesses with over 50 employees must offer health insurance to full-time employees, or pay a penalty.
• Insurers now can't do annual spending caps. Their customers can get as much health care in a given year as they need. ( Citation: Page 14, sec. 2711 )
• Limits how high of an annual deductible insurers can charge customers. ( Citation: Page 62, sec. 1302 )
• Cut some Medicare spending
• Place a $2500 limit on tax-free spending on FSAs (accounts for medical spending). Basically, people using these accounts now have to pay taxes on any money over $2500 they put into them. ( Citation: Page 801, sec. 9005 )
• Establish health insurance exchanges and rebates for the lower and middle-class, basically making it so they have an easier time getting affordable medical coverage.
• Congress and Congressional staff will only be offered the same insurance offered to people in the insurance exchanges, rather than Federal Insurance. Basically, we won't be footing their health care bills any more than any other American citizen. ( Citation: Page 81, sec. 1312 )
• A new tax on pharmaceutical companies.
• A new tax on the purchase of medical devices.
• A new tax on insurance companies based on their market share. Basically, the more of the market they control, the more they'll get taxed.
• The amount you can deduct from your taxes for medical expenses increases.
1/1/2015
• Doctors' pay will be determined by the quality of their care, not how many people they treat. Edit: a_real_MD addresses questions regarding this one in far more detail and with far more expertise than I can offer in this post. If you're looking for a more in-depth explanation of this one (as many of you are), I highly recommend you give his post a read.
1/1/2017
• If any state can come up with their own plan, one which gives citizens the same level of care at the same price as the PPACA, they can ask the Secretary of Health and Human Resources for permission to do their plan instead of the PPACA. So if they can get the same results without, say, the mandate, they can be allowed to do so. Vermont, for example, has expressed a desire to just go straight to single-payer (in simple terms, everyone is covered, and medical expenses are paid by taxpayers). ( Citation: Page 98, sec. 1332 )
2018
• All health care plans must now cover preventative care (not just the new ones).
• A new tax on "Cadillac" health care plans (more expensive plans for rich people who want fancier coverage).
2020
• The elimination of the "Medicare gap"
.
Aaaaand that's it right there.
The biggest thing opponents of the bill have against it is the mandate. They claim that it forces people to buy insurance, and forcing people to buy something is unconstitutional. Personally, I take the opposite view, as it's not telling people to buy a specific thing, just to have a specific type of thing, just like a part of the money we pay in taxes pays for the police and firemen who protect us, this would have us paying to ensure doctors can treat us for illness and injury.
Plus, as previously mentioned, it's necessary if you're doing away with "pre-existing conditions" because otherwise no one would get insurance until they needed to use it, which defeats the purpose of insurance.
 5 years ago '05        #188
Sheeed 1 heat pts
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If they decided to turn those away who refused the insurance option instead of a tax there would be a huge uproar...

Maybe those who want the ability to decline the option dont realize should something happen to them and they can't afford the treatment, how much strain the costs put on the system.

Lol I honestly believe people who want the right to choose simply want the right to choose, but would still choose an insurance option so long as they had a choice
 5 years ago '11        #189
Suppafresh 26 heat pts26
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 Play4keepz32 said:
Sad day for america....
Why cause they made something affordable? Instead of u bumming the system they make u pay for it?
 5 years ago '07        #190
JordanWest86 23 heat pts23
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 quan3106 said:
If u have a job worth anything then they offer healthcare...this means nothing to u...
I make $60k a year but my job doesnt offer healthcare. Are you sayin my job isnt worth anything?
 5 years ago '07        #191
JordanWest86 23 heat pts23
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 Saphire Moore said:
Let me help some you of you sheep understand all of this.....

Already in effect:
• It allows the Food and Drug Administration to approve more generic drugs (making for more competition in the market to drive down prices) ( Citation: An entire section of the bill, called Title VII, is devoted to this, starting on page 747 )
• It increases the rebates on drugs people get through Medicare (so drugs cost less) ( Citation: Page 216, sec. 2501 )
• It establishes a non-profit group, that the government doesn't directly control, PCORI, to study different kinds of treatments to see what works better and is the best use of money. ( Citation: Page 665, sec. 1181 )
• It makes chain restaurants like McDonalds display how many calories are in all of their foods, so people can have an easier time making choices to eat healthy. ( Citation: Page 499, sec. 4205 )
• It makes a "high-risk pool" for people with pre-existing conditions. Basically, this is a way to slowly ease into getting rid of "pre-existing conditions" altogether. For now, people who already have health issues that would be considered "pre-existing conditions" can still get insurance, but at different rates than people without them. ( Citation: Page 30, sec. 1101, Page 45, sec. 2704, and Page 46, sec. 2702 )
• It forbids insurance companies from discriminating based on a disability, or because they were the victim of domestic abuse in the past (yes, insurers really did deny coverage for that) ( Citation: Page 47, sec. 2705 )
• It renews some old policies, and calls for the appointment of various positions.
• It creates a new 10% tax on indoor tanning booths. ( Citation: Page 923, sec. 5000B )
• It says that health insurance companies can no longer tell customers that they won't get any more coverage because they have hit a "lifetime limit". Basically, if someone has paid for health insurance, that company can't tell that person that he's used that insurance too much throughout his life so they won't cover him any more. They can't do this for lifetime spending, and they're limited in how much they can do this for yearly spending. ( Citation: Page 14, sec. 2711 )
• Kids can continue to be covered by their parents' health insurance until they're 26. ( Citation: Page 15, sec. 2714 )
• No more "pre-existing conditions" for kids under the age of 19. ( Citation: Page 45, sec. 2704 and Page 57, sec. 1255 )
• Insurers have less ability to change the amount customers have to pay for their plans. ( Citation: Page 47, sec. 2794 )
• People in a "Medicare Gap" get a rebate to make up for the extra money they would otherwise have to spend. ( Citation: Page 379, sec. 3301 )
• Insurers can't just drop customers once they get sick. ( Citation: Page 14, sec. 2712 )
• Insurers have to tell customers what they're spending money on. (Instead of just "administrative fee", they have to be more specific).
• Insurers need to have an appeals process for when they turn down a claim, so customers have some manner of recourse other than a lawsuit when they're turned down. ( Citation: Page 42, sec. 2719 )
• Anti-fraud funding is increased and new ways to stop fraud are created. ( Citation: Page 699, sec. 6402 )
• Medicare extends to smaller hospitals. ( Citation: Starting on page 344, the entire section "Part II" seems to deal with this )
• Medicare patients with chronic illnesses must be monitored more thoroughly.
• Reduces the costs for some companies that handle benefits for the elderly. ( Citation: Page 492, sec. 4202 )
• A new website is made to give people insurance and health information. (I think this is it: ). ( Citation: Page 36, sec. 1103 )
• A credit program is made that will make it easier for business to invest in new ways to treat illness by paying half the cost of the investment. (Note - this program was temporary. It already ended) ( Citation: Page 830, sec. 9023 )
• A limit is placed on just how much of a percentage of the money an insurer makes can be profit, to make sure they're not price-gouging customers. ( Citation: Page 22, sec. 1101 )
• A limit is placed on what type of insurance accounts can be used to pay for over-the-counter drugs without a prescription. Basically, your insurer isn't paying for the Aspirin you bought for that hangover. ( Citation: Page 800, sec. 9003 )
• Employers need to list the benefits they provided to employees on their tax forms. ( Citation: Page 800, sec. 9002 )
• Any new health plans must provide preventative care (mammograms, colonoscopies, etc.) without requiring any sort of co-pay or charge. ( Citation: Page 14, sec. 2713 )
1/1/2013
• If you make over $200,000 a year, your taxes go up a tiny bit (0.9%). Edit: To address those who take issue with the word "tiny", a change of 0.9% is relatively tiny. Any look at how taxes have fluctuated over the years will reveal that a change of less than one percent is miniscule, especially when we're talking about people in the top 5% of earners. ( Citation: Page 818, sec. 9015 )
1/1/2014
This is when a lot of the really big changes happen.
• No more "pre-existing conditions". At all. People will be charged the same regardless of their medical history. ( Citation: Page 45, sec. 2704, Page 46, sec. 2701, and Page 57, sec. 1255 )
• If you can afford insurance but do not get it, you will be charged a fee. This is the "mandate" that people are talking about. Basically, it's a trade-off for the "pre-existing conditions" bit, saying that since insurers now have to cover you regardless of what you have, you can't just wait to buy insurance until you get sick. Otherwise no one would buy insurance until they needed it. You can opt not to get insurance, but you'll have to pay the fee instead, unless of course you're not buying insurance because you just can't afford it. (Note: On 6/28/12, the Supreme Court ruled that this is Constitutional, as long as it's considered a tax on the uninsured and not a penalty for not buying insurance... nitpicking about wording, mostly, but the long and short of it is, it looks like this is accepted by the courts) ( Citation: Page 145, sec. 5000A, and here is the actual court ruling for those who wish to read it. )
Question: What determines whether or not I can afford the mandate? Will I be forced to pay for insurance I can't afford?
Answer: There are all kinds of checks in place to keep you from getting screwed. Kaiser actually has a webpage with a pretty good rundown on it, if you're worried about it. You can see it here.
Okay, have we got that settled? Okay, moving on...
• Small businesses get some tax credits for two years. (It looks like this is specifically for businesses with 25 or fewer employees) ( Citation: Page 138, sec. 1421 )
• Businesses with over 50 employees must offer health insurance to full-time employees, or pay a penalty.
• Insurers now can't do annual spending caps. Their customers can get as much health care in a given year as they need. ( Citation: Page 14, sec. 2711 )
• Limits how high of an annual deductible insurers can charge customers. ( Citation: Page 62, sec. 1302 )
• Cut some Medicare spending
• Place a $2500 limit on tax-free spending on FSAs (accounts for medical spending). Basically, people using these accounts now have to pay taxes on any money over $2500 they put into them. ( Citation: Page 801, sec. 9005 )
• Establish health insurance exchanges and rebates for the lower and middle-class, basically making it so they have an easier time getting affordable medical coverage.
• Congress and Congressional staff will only be offered the same insurance offered to people in the insurance exchanges, rather than Federal Insurance. Basically, we won't be footing their health care bills any more than any other American citizen. ( Citation: Page 81, sec. 1312 )
• A new tax on pharmaceutical companies.
• A new tax on the purchase of medical devices.
• A new tax on insurance companies based on their market share. Basically, the more of the market they control, the more they'll get taxed.
• The amount you can deduct from your taxes for medical expenses increases.
1/1/2015
• Doctors' pay will be determined by the quality of their care, not how many people they treat. Edit: a_real_MD addresses questions regarding this one in far more detail and with far more expertise than I can offer in this post. If you're looking for a more in-depth explanation of this one (as many of you are), I highly recommend you give his post a read.
1/1/2017
• If any state can come up with their own plan, one which gives citizens the same level of care at the same price as the PPACA, they can ask the Secretary of Health and Human Resources for permission to do their plan instead of the PPACA. So if they can get the same results without, say, the mandate, they can be allowed to do so. Vermont, for example, has expressed a desire to just go straight to single-payer (in simple terms, everyone is covered, and medical expenses are paid by taxpayers). ( Citation: Page 98, sec. 1332 )
2018
• All health care plans must now cover preventative care (not just the new ones).
• A new tax on "Cadillac" health care plans (more expensive plans for rich people who want fancier coverage).
2020
• The elimination of the "Medicare gap"
.
Aaaaand that's it right there.
The biggest thing opponents of the bill have against it is the mandate. They claim that it forces people to buy insurance, and forcing people to buy something is unconstitutional. Personally, I take the opposite view, as it's not telling people to buy a specific thing, just to have a specific type of thing, just like a part of the money we pay in taxes pays for the police and firemen who protect us, this would have us paying to ensure doctors can treat us for illness and injury.
Plus, as previously mentioned, it's necessary if you're doing away with "pre-existing conditions" because otherwise no one would get insurance until they needed to use it, which defeats the purpose of insurance.

A lot of these will definitely take away jobs. Its just two ways of looking at stuff. I mean its good that they're making chain restaurants put nutrition facts on things for people's health but the restaurants are gonna get that cost back. Whether it be cutting jobs or raising prices on items, thats a negative for the overall economy.

For a company to have to buy insurance for an employee, this is another reason a business owner would not want to hire new employees or release existing employees. Every action has a reaction and its just not all logical.
 5 years ago '05        #192
NomiS 2 heat pts
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 Im Soo Special said:

[pic - click to view]




OBAMA 2012!!
 5 years ago '04        #193
ItAlY2BkLyN 238 heat pts238
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 NomiS said:
OBAMA 2012!!
Considering that Romney helped draft the legislation for Obamacare

get a clue.
 5 years ago '11        #194
Suppafresh 26 heat pts26
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 ItAlY2BkLyN said:
Considering that Romney helped draft the legislation for Obamacare

get a clue.
But he flipped on the matter now he against it. Lol smh
 5 years ago '11        #195
Trolling 64 heat pts64
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[pic - click to view]

 5 years ago '04        #196
ItAlY2BkLyN 238 heat pts238
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 Suppafresh said:
But he flipped on the matter now he against it. Lol smh
I know this is a campaign commercial but it's true.

Every president flip flops. It's because none of them actually give a fu*k. They are just trying to ramble off some bullsh*t to make the people shut up.


[video - click to view]

 5 years ago '06        #197
niceguy954 31 heat pts31
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 JordanWest86 said:
I make $60k a year but my job doesnt offer healthcare. Are you sayin my job isnt worth anything?
you got a job with a sh*tty benefits package so yes...
 5 years ago '04        #198
ItAlY2BkLyN 238 heat pts238
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 niceguy954 said:
you got a job with a sh*tty benefits package so yes...
in a time like this with unemployment still above 8%. Beggars can't be choosers.
 5 years ago '09        #199
ill 800 64 heat pts64
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the government is managing your life down to your health.

they do such a great job with everything else lets give them more power.




sheep are gonna be sheep i guess
 5 years ago '06        #200
niceguy954 31 heat pts31
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 ItAlY2BkLyN said:
in a time like this with unemployment still above 8%. Beggars can't be choosers.
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