Serge Ibaka says LeBron is ‘not a good defender’

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 5 years ago '11        #61
PrimeTimeJones3 11 heat pts11
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 Chip Tha Ripper said:
1. Never said Kobe shut down anyone one on one.

2. Never said Kobe was a great defender, said he was a very good defender.

3. Some people, as seen by BX members responses, give LeBron a pass on Melo, KD, etc..
So why would it be different for Kobe who was playing a 4-5 year younger PP.. and chasing around the GREATEST shooter of all time in RayRay who was also years younger

4. I was referring to the Kobe of younger too.. during the first championship run and times around there..
But who did he guard then? The Lakers didnt play against the toughest competition during the first 3 peat
 5 years ago '05        #62
alkoholyck 2 heat pts
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 Chip Tha Ripper said:
1. Never said Kobe shut down anyone one on one.

2. Never said Kobe was a great defender, said he was a very good defender.

3. Some people, as seen by BX members responses, give LeBron a pass on Melo, KD, etc..
So why would it be different for Kobe who was playing a 4-5 year younger PP.. and chasing around the GREATEST shooter of all time in RayRay who was also years younger

4. I was referring to the Kobe of younger too.. during the first championship run and times around there..
Why do you keep bringing up Melo like LeBron didn't just make him have a terrible series a month ago?



(This is for the first 4 games only, couldn't find full stats)
 06-18-2012, 11:17 PM         #63
Chip Tha Ripper 
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 alkoholyck said:
You just said Melo torches him the majority of the time. LeBron has stepped up defensively MAJORLY in the last two years. and that showed in the first round. Melo couldn't do sh*t against him. Whenever Battier was on Melo, Melo abused him. Yet Battier is one of these guys that most people would try and argue is better defensively than LeBron but doesn't get as much recognition because he's not a superstar. The Knicks-Miami series literally went one extra game than it should have because Spo didn't want to keep LeBron on Melo the whole time.
Again, I addressed what I THOUGHT slowed him down.
And again, that isn't LeBron guarding him the whole game. Its in spurts, here and there.

And I dont know what you were watching, but Melo got a TON of looks that he always gets and is more than capable of making.

And Battier guards for 48 minutes. He guards players who are much bigger than him, and he handles them. Did you see what he did to David West. He made him look like a bi*ch thats just one example..

What Battier does with his lack of athleticism, size, strength, etc. is more impressive to me that what LeBron shows in spurts during games here and there.
 5 years ago '11        #64
whothebestmc 98 heat pts98
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 alkoholyck said:
Ehh, I'd make the argument KD had a bad game. Obviously an extremely subjective thing to say. But I genuinely believe that KD can do whatever he wants unless he's having a bad game personally. The effect a great defender versus a good defender has on him is minimal IMO.
not just in your opinion. That's the truth, he is tall enough to shoot over anybody, athletic to go by anybody as tall as him, not to mention his jump shot is consistently wet for the most part. As long as you have a hand in his face making him shoot the tougher shot you did your job against durant and that goes for most offensive stars in the nba.

You're not going to block his shot, force him to miss, steal the ball, or make him turn it over every play.

 Chip Tha Ripper said:
Again, I addressed what I THOUGHT slowed him down.
And again, that isn't LeBron guarding him the whole game. Its in spurts, here and there.

And I dont know what you were watching, but Melo got a TON of looks that he always gets and is more than capable of making.

And Battier guards for 48 minutes. He guards players who are much bigger than him, and he handles them. Did you see what he did to David West. He made him look like a bi*ch thats just one example..

What Battier does with his lack of athleticism, size, strength, etc. is more impressive to me that what LeBron shows in spurts during games here and there.
I understand what you are saying with the "melo normally makes those" but at some point you have to give the defender some type of credit. Whether melo has made them or normally makes them is irrelevant if he missed it while lebron or anyone else was guarding him. While lebron was guarding him he shot under 30%, whether he got a lot of good looks isn't really valid because he didn't make them.

sometimes the best defense is a missed shot.


Last edited by whothebestmc; 06-18-2012 at 11:23 PM..
 06-18-2012, 11:22 PM         #65
Chip Tha Ripper 
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 alkoholyck said:
Why do you keep bringing up Melo like LeBron didn't just make him have a terrible series a month ago?



(This is for the first 4 games only, couldn't find full stats)
I know this is hard for some to comprehend..

but Melo got the shots he wanted. got to the spot on the floor he wanted...
Sometimes the ball just doesn't find its way through the basket..

And some of those stats are diluted because I saw LeBrons defensive stats against
KD in some games, and they are skewed. They won't count certain plays, but will give
him credit for a defensive stop if he comes flying in from behind after the offensive player
goes up on 2 other guys in front of him..

Not to mention I already addressed what I thought really slowed him down.

Another example, KD torched LeBron in games 1 + 2.
But KD missed a couple of close looks at the basket after driving right by LeBron..
partially because dude was in foul trouble the whole second half..

And now after game 3, now its did you see how the King just shut down KD last night


Last edited by Chip Tha Ripper; 06-18-2012 at 11:25 PM..
 06-18-2012, 11:24 PM         #66
Chip Tha Ripper 
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Im wayyyy to high to be addressing this many people right now


I think he is a good defender, not great.
If you dont like it too bad

Its just my opinion.
And I respect yours.

People acting like I said Jason Caffey was better than dude
 5 years ago '07        #67
joshdogg26 193 heat pts193
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 whothebestmc said:
not just in your opinion. That's the truth, he is tall enough to shoot over anybody, athletic to go by anybody as tall as him, not to mention his jump shot is consistently wet for the most part. As long as you have a hand in his face making him shoot the tougher shot you did your job against durant and that goes for most offensive stars in the nba.

You're not going to block his shot, force him to miss, steal the ball, or make him turn it over every play.



I understand what you are saying with the "melo normally makes those" but at some point you have to give the defender some type of credit. Whether melo has made them or normally makes them is irrelevant if he missed it while lebron or anyone else was guarding him. While lebron was guarding him he shot under 30%, whether he got a lot of good looks isn't really valid because he didn't make them.

sometimes the best defense is a missed shot.
that's how dirk is, too. really your best bet is just to get up into him and keep him off his spots. try to make him uncomfortable. maybe UD should guard durant since he holds dirk under 40% .


jp he'd get blown by
 5 years ago '05        #68
alkoholyck 2 heat pts
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 Chip Tha Ripper said:
Again, I addressed what I THOUGHT slowed him down.
And again, that isn't LeBron guarding him the whole game. Its in spurts, here and there.

And I dont know what you were watching, but Melo got a TON of looks that he always gets and is more than capable of making.

And Battier guards for 48 minutes. He guards players who are much bigger than him, and he handles them. Did you see what he did to David West. He made him look like a bi*ch thats just one example..

What Battier does with his lack of athleticism, size, strength, etc. is more impressive to me that what LeBron shows in spurts during games here and there.
I'm not denying LeBron doesn't guard the best players for 48 minutes. Obviously they want to conserve his energy a bit. But I feel like Ibaka is trying to say he CAN'T rather than he DOESN'T.

I disagree about Melo getting looks he's capable of making. Kinda like how Doc Rivers said after one of the games a couple of weeks ago, when he mentioned the Celtics were getting some good looks, but they weren't the looks they wanted, because Miami was forcing them to do what Miami wanted them to do. When the stats show LeBron forced Melo into 12-41, IMO that's giving him bad looks. It's not like he was just cold the whole series, he abused Battier.

It defintely comes down to strengths versus certain players though. Because you're 100% right, Battier went from looking terrible against Melo, to completely frustrating David West.

And I'm also not arguing what's more impressive relative to other factors, I'm just saying what's more impressive overall. With LeBron we expect him to be great at everything because he's an absolute monster like the game has never seen before. So yeah, I'd agree Battier is more impressive relative to size, etc. But I'm looking at LeBron relative to the best defenders ever, and in that argument you can't really bring in things like 'oh but he's bigger/longer, etc'. It's just about who's better, plain and simple.
 5 years ago '05        #69
StateProperty88 34 heat pts34
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i hope bron is fueled by this and really shows him how good a defender he is
 5 years ago '05        #70
alkoholyck 2 heat pts
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 Chip Tha Ripper said:
I know this is hard for some to comprehend..

but Melo got the shots he wanted. got to the spot on the floor he wanted...
Sometimes the ball just doesn't find its way through the basket..

And some of those stats are diluted because I saw LeBrons defensive stats against
KD in some games, and they are skewed. They won't count certain plays, but will give
him credit for a defensive stop if he comes flying in from behind after the offensive player
goes up on 2 other guys in front of him..

Not to mention I already addressed what I thought really slowed him down.

Another example, KD torched LeBron in games 1 + 2.
But KD missed a couple of close looks at the basket after driving right by LeBron..
partially because dude was in foul trouble the whole second half..

And now after game 3, now its did you see how the King just shut down KD last night
Nah I can respect it, I've already said I don't think KD's troubles are related to LeBron - KD's gonna do whatever he wants.

And I know what you mean about the whole he usually makes those arguments for Melo, but I feel like that kind of argument applies far more for a single game. When you've got the numbers for a bigger sample size, like the 4 games shown, at some point it's hard to argue, especially since it's you trying to remember every single possession versus someone who's actually gone through the tape and written down the figures from every possession.
 5 years ago '08        #71
Illuminati 191 heat pts191
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no nba player in the history of the nba has ever been a lock down player for every minute tey were on the floor. im not talking about defensive anchor sor defensive specialists but superstars and premier plays.

if you have enlighten me.
 06-18-2012, 11:33 PM         #72
Chip Tha Ripper 
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 alkoholyck said:
I'm not denying LeBron doesn't guard the best players for 48 minutes. Obviously they want to conserve his energy a bit. But I feel like Ibaka is trying to say he CAN'T rather than he DOESN'T.

I disagree about Melo getting looks he's capable of making. Kinda like how Doc Rivers said after one of the games a couple of weeks ago, when he mentioned the Celtics were getting some good looks, but they weren't the looks they wanted, because Miami was forcing them to do what Miami wanted them to do. When the stats show LeBron forced Melo into 12-41, IMO that's giving him bad looks. It's not like he was just cold the whole series, he abused Battier.

It defintely comes down to strengths versus certain players though. Because you're 100% right, Battier went from looking terrible against Melo, to completely frustrating David West.

And I'm also not arguing what's more impressive relative to other factors, I'm just saying what's more impressive overall. With LeBron we expect him to be great at everything because he's an absolute monster like the game has never seen before. So yeah, I'd agree Battier is more impressive relative to size, etc. But I'm looking at LeBron relative to the best defenders ever, and in that argument you can't really bring in things like 'oh but he's bigger/longer, etc'. It's just about who's better, plain and simple.

To the first paragraph, Ive already agreed and addressed that..
and I dont agree with Ibaka saying that He CAN play defense.

I still disagree about Melo...
When Shane guarded him, Melo knew he could abuse him in the post..
and get higher percentage looks because he knew Battier wasn't strong enough to hold him.

When LeBron guarded him, he knew he couldn't just pound Bron down like he could a smaller defender. So he went outside and tried to take advantage of his ridiculous first step. And in my opinion, he got the same jumpshots and looks from the perimeter that he gets with lesser players guarding him.

Lastly, I agree and disagree with what you ended saying.

It annoys me that just cuz he's LeBron, some people say he is a GREAT at everything, which isn't the case. Just because he's a good defender and his names LeBron he's great. In my opinion, he's a good defender and a great teammate/scorer. People dont just expect him to be things, they just label him as things.

Like some thought he should have been DPOY, when I thought that was ridiculous.
 5 years ago '05        #73
iggyemu 
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Spoken like a true role player. The thing about star players that role players don't understand is that star players could do the role players job about 20 times better...but the star player has to focus on other things as well. So while Serge is just defending for 48 minutes. LeBron is defending, rebounding, scoring, playmaking and leading for 48 minutes. Some of those things aren't going to be at an elite level for all 48 minutes.
 5 years ago '09        #74
Tiko377 1860 heat pts1860
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Someone need to tweet this to Lebron give him some nice ammo
 06-18-2012, 11:36 PM         #75
Chip Tha Ripper 
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 alkoholyck said:
Nah I can respect it, I've already said I don't think KD's troubles are related to LeBron - KD's gonna do whatever he wants.

And I know what you mean about the whole he usually makes those arguments for Melo, but I feel like that kind of argument applies far more for a single game. When you've got the numbers for a bigger sample size, like the 4 games shown, at some point it's hard to argue, especially since it's you trying to remember every single possession versus someone who's actually gone through the tape and written down the figures from every possession.
Thats fair enough about the sample size..

but take into consideration.. when he started guarding him:
1. either at the end of the half after Melo had 2 sole purpose defenders on him, or at the end of the game with the same circumstances applying and more time logged

And 2. that Melo was forced to shoulder a huge load.. with Amare, well being a dumbass. No real point guard. B Diddy going down. Iman doing down. No Lin. Offensively, he had to try and score 40+ a night for them to have a chance. Thats a lot to ask.
Especially versus a team who plays overall, really good defense.


Last edited by Chip Tha Ripper; 06-18-2012 at 11:39 PM..
 5 years ago '11        #76
whothebestmc 98 heat pts98
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 Tiko377 said:
Someone need to tweet this to Lebron give him some nice ammo
Lebron hasn't been on twitter in over a month, he's in focused k!ller mode
 06-18-2012, 11:38 PM         #77
Chip Tha Ripper 
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 StateProperty88 said:
i hope bron is fueled by this and really shows him how good a defender he is
Good choice of word my friend






 5 years ago '10        #78
beast mode 25 heat pts25
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he's right....lebron is not a good defender......he's a GREAT defender.
 5 years ago '05        #79
TattooedMPsz 50 heat pts50
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Chip tha ripper typing 5 paragraph essays on lbj
 5 years ago '06        #80
modalee 5 heat pts
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 TH35 said:
Yea but that's everyone no one is humanly capable of guarding a superstar 48 min.
No not just that part of his comments. Lebron is just not a great or good man defender. He's a very good help defender but one on one he isnt that good.
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