Serge Ibaka says LeBron is ‘not a good defender’

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 5 years ago '04        #41
VictoryThagr8 6 heat pts
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 elvisfreshly said:
Boozer got a vote

and the DPOY didnt make the first team

So you saying tyson chandler should be 1st team all defense over dwight even though chandler didnt deserve dpoy in the first place.
 5 years ago '07        #42
TH35 103 heat pts103
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 modalee said:
Ibaka is telling the truth 100% right about Bron's "D"
Yea but that's everyone no one is humanly capable of guarding a superstar 48 min.
 06-18-2012, 10:16 PM         #43
Chip Tha Ripper 
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 whothebestmc said:
um but he was wrong? they didn't put him on all defense 2nd team, he got 1 vote... hardly a valid point to use to discredit it.

and what are these "reason, facts"?
 TH35 said:
and Ibaka isn't a SG on offense



makes no gotdamn sense you should've left it at either hes good or just overrated
In response to both of this posts, yes I think he's overrated.
That doesn't mean I can't think he's still a good defender.

How fu*king hard is that to understand @TH35

People build him up to be some defensive guru who was the first player ever to guard all positions at different points in the game..

In the Celtics series alone, there was another player, who in his prime, did the same thing.
His name was Kevin Garnett.

Watch him play defense.. Melo torches him the majority of time, Durant does what he wants for the most part and shoots right over the top of him, Luol's slow a.ss drives by him.. A lot of the players get the shots they want while he's guarding them.

He gets all this credit because of chase down blocks.. and because his worthless role players, as everyone always calls them, bail him out. Most notably and under appreciated Joel Anthony.

Everyone calls him a GREAT defender.. in my opinion, great defenders dont take plays off to "reserve" their energy for offense. Great defenders can guard all game long. All this sh*t about how its too draining to play both sides all game long is bullsh*t.. (LeBron complaining when he had to guard a 4 for 2 games straight, all game. He's 6'9" 270 and he can't handle guarding some 4s who he's bigger than )

these athletes are getting paid to play basketball. ur job is to be in shape.
If ur telling me u can't play all-out, both sides for 48 minutes a day, then thats wack to me.

I can keep going, but 1. people are prolly already gonna post didnt read gifs 2. its pointless cuz I'm not gonna change anyones mind, cuz everyone on this site is pig-headed


Last edited by Chip Tha Ripper; 06-18-2012 at 10:22 PM..
 5 years ago '11        #44
whothebestmc 98 heat pts98
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 Chip Tha Ripper said:
In response to both of this posts, yes I think he's overrated.
That doesn't mean I can't think he's still a good defender.

How fu*king hard is that to understand @TH35

People build him up to be some defensive guru who was the first player ever to guard all positions at different points in the game..

In the Celtics series alone, there was another player, who in his prime, did the same thing.
His name was Kevin Garnett.

Watch him play defense.. Melo torches him the majority of time, Durant does what he wants for the most part and shoots right over the top of him, Luol's slow a.ss drives by him.. A lot of the players get the shots they want while he's guarding them.

He gets all this credit because of chase down blocks.. and because his worthless role players, as everyone always calls them, bail him out. Most notably and under appreciated Joel Anthony.

Everyone calls him a GREAT defender.. in my opinion, great defenders dont take plays off to "reserve" their energy for offense. Great defenders can guard all game long. All this sh*t about how its too draining to play both sides all game long is bullsh*t..

these athletes are getting paid to play basketball. ur job is to be in shape.
If ur telling me u can't play all-out, both sides for 48 minutes a day, then thats wack to me.
I never said you couldn't think he was overrated.

garnett might have been guarding every postion on a switch of a pick and roll or something, but lebron was guarding 1-5 by design against them and now aganist the thunder. But garnett did used to do what lebron is doing.

bringing up great offensive players to somehow prove that lebron isn't a great defender is retarded. Melo/durant can torch anybody, all you can do to great offensive players is slow them down.

But by your definition some of the greatest defenders of all time aren't great defenders, because they didn't play great defense every play. Just for players that play now, is dwight howard not a great defender? Any defender that kd/melo/lebron/wade/kobe etc have lit up isn't a great defender?

but no it isn't bullsh*t, please name me a great offensive player that played great defense for 48 minutes.

In your eyes athletes can't tire?

You are entitled to your opinion, and I agree lebron does take plays off defensively to conserve energy, usually by design from the coaching staff by switching him on to somebody that doesn't do much offensively. People do overrate his defense, but imo he is a great/elite defender.
 5 years ago '04        #45
dre03 
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What ammo is he giving the heat? Jason Terry called Lebron weak a.ss out last year about his defense on him and went out proved himself right.. He also said Lebron couldn't guard him the whole game... How quickly n*ggas forget

 06-18-2012, 10:37 PM         #46
Chip Tha Ripper 
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 whothebestmc said:
I never said you couldn't think he was overrated.

garnett might have been guarding every postion on a switch of a pick and roll or something, but lebron was guarding 1-5 by design against them and now aganist the thunder. But garnett did used to do what lebron is doing.

bringing up great offensive players to somehow prove that lebron isn't a great defender is retarded. Melo/durant can torch anybody, all you can do to great offensive players is slow them down.

But by your definition some of the greatest defenders of all time aren't great defenders, because they didn't play great defense every play. Just for players that play now, is dwight howard not a great defender? Any defender that kd/melo/lebron/wade/kobe etc have lit up isn't a great defender?

but no it isn't bullsh*t, please name me a great offensive player that played great defense for 48 minutes.

In your eyes athletes can't tire?

You are entitled to your opinion, and I agree lebron does take plays off defensively to conserve energy, usually by design from the coaching staff by switching him on to somebody that doesn't do much offensively. People do overrate his defense, but imo he is a great/elite defender.
The part about thinking he's overrated but good, was more directed to TH35 so my bad

From what I remember, and based off personal opinion, KG could guard 3-5 by design.. and he would help off an play 1s and 2s, like you said through pick n roll.

Same could be said about LeBron, he doesn't start out a.ssigned to a 5,2,1 really. He is a.ssigned to 3s and 4s... but under certain circumstances he is rotated. So I agree he's flexible in that aspect.

To be honest, I figured that would be ur response to KD, Melo etc.. but I also thought that if I named lower tier players who have played well against him.. people will just say, well he wasn't focused on him.. or he didnt care.. or he didnt need to guard him etc. Cuz thats how most of BX members act/think.

Players like Luol, who people think are overrated which is fair, plays D for 48 minutes. Every night. He gives 100 every night he touches the floor. A lot of old school players put it all on the line every night.. but this is a new age in basketball and I dont think well see players like that anymore. Players are lazy, selfish..

And yea players get tired.. everyone gets tired.. but it is their JOB.
They have days off to rest, they have top of the line treatment/medicine.. they are pretty
much babied 24/7.. I do think players should be able to put forth that much effort for such a small amount of time.. hell, even during the game they get half time, coaches timeouts, tv timeouts.. I just have no sympathy for people who say they're too tired, or its too much, or its too draining..

You might not agree with that, and thats fine. We all have our own opinions.

I dont know if I covered everything you asked/inquired about.. I'm a little high
 06-18-2012, 10:38 PM         #47
Chip Tha Ripper 
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 p00rky said:
Why waste your time explaining yourself to this troll? He already admitted in another thread that he doesn't like Lebron. He bashes Lebron every chance he gets.
Just cuz I dont like him..

doesn't mean I dont appreciate the things he's good at.. or respect pieces of his game.

Dumbass
 5 years ago '11        #48
PrimeTimeJones3 11 heat pts11
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 Chip Tha Ripper said:
In response to both of this posts, yes I think he's overrated.
That doesn't mean I can't think he's still a good defender.

How fu*king hard is that to understand @TH35

People build him up to be some defensive guru who was the first player ever to guard all positions at different points in the game..

In the Celtics series alone, there was another player, who in his prime, did the same thing.
His name was Kevin Garnett.

Watch him play defense.. Melo torches him the majority of time, Durant does what he wants for the most part and shoots right over the top of him, Luol's slow a.ss drives by him.. A lot of the players get the shots they want while he's guarding them.

He gets all this credit because of chase down blocks.. and because his worthless role players, as everyone always calls them, bail him out. Most notably and under appreciated Joel Anthony.

Everyone calls him a GREAT defender.. in my opinion, great defenders dont take plays off to "reserve" their energy for offense. Great defenders can guard all game long. All this sh*t about how its too draining to play both sides all game long is bullsh*t.. (LeBron complaining when he had to guard a 4 for 2 games straight, all game. He's 6'9" 270 and he can't handle guarding some 4s who he's bigger than )

these athletes are getting paid to play basketball. ur job is to be in shape.
If ur telling me u can't play all-out, both sides for 48 minutes a day, then thats wack to me.

I can keep going, but 1. people are prolly already gonna post didnt read gifs 2. its pointless cuz I'm not gonna change anyones mind, cuz everyone on this site is pig-headed
so you are saying Kobe wasn't/isnt a great defender at one point?

Sometimes coaches actually put them on the less offensively players to save their best player energy

Melo didnt torch him in the playoffs this series ...when he guarded Pierce he slowed him

Rose...slowed him down too

Its hard to stop a superstar but all you can do is try to slow them down and take tough shots

maybe he is great because of his flexibility and does it effectively
 5 years ago '06        #49
luckluck 17 heat pts17
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 Dun Language said:
Kobe has 5 rings. Not 1 not 2 not 3 not 4 but 5



that's a lot of rings

[pic - click to view]

 06-18-2012, 10:48 PM         #50
Chip Tha Ripper 
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 PrimeTimeJones3 said:
so you are saying Kobe wasn't/isnt a great defender at one point?

Sometimes coaches actually put them on the less offensively players to save their best player energy

Melo didnt torch him in the playoffs this series ...when he guarded Pierce he slowed him

Rose...slowed him down too

Its hard to stop a superstar but all you can do is try to slow them down and take tough shots

maybe he is great because of his flexibility and does it effectively
Kobe, at a point in his career was a really good defender. He also had a fire in him, that I dont link LeBron carries.. Kobe wud guard people cuz he wanted to guard them. A lot of the time, I think LeBron only guards certain players because he hears people saying something about it, or because he finally is told to. This year, he has taken on more challenges, and wanting to guard players more willingly.

I understand coaches do that.. but as an elite, an in this case probably best, player in the world, I think he is more than capable of taking on the extra effort.

I wouldn't necessarily say he slowed Melo down.. I would say injuries that forced Melo to have to try and do too much slowed him down.. he still got the majority of shots he always gets

Pierce dude is miles past his prime.. I hope LeBron could slow him down, IMO.

Rose got where he wanted on the floor when LeBron guarded him.. its when Rose hit a brick wall at the basket because of good help defense.. and like I said, he only would guard him for MINUTES at a time.. in the 4th quarter.. after he carried his team all game long, and the previous 2 series.
And you can say all you want, but after seeing what were capable of in the playoffs without him, you CANNOT argue that.

In my opinion, great defenders either lock up, overly frustrate players.
They dont slow em down for a minute here, or a minute there.

I think his flexibility, instincts, and average on ball defense is what makes him a good defender. But in my opinion, not great.
 5 years ago '11        #51
whothebestmc 98 heat pts98
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 Chip Tha Ripper said:
The part about thinking he's overrated but good, was more directed to TH35 so my bad

From what I remember, and based off personal opinion, KG could guard 3-5 by design.. and he would help off an play 1s and 2s, like you said through pick n roll.

Same could be said about LeBron, he doesn't start out a.ssigned to a 5,2,1 really. He is a.ssigned to 3s and 4s... but under certain circumstances he is rotated. So I agree he's flexible in that aspect.

To be honest, I figured that would be ur response to KD, Melo etc.. but I also thought that if I named lower tier players who have played well against him.. people will just say, well he wasn't focused on him.. or he didnt care.. or he didnt need to guard him etc. Cuz thats how most of BX members act/think.

Players like Luol, who people think are overrated which is fair, plays D for 48 minutes. Every night. He gives 100 every night he touches the floor. A lot of old school players put it all on the line every night.. but this is a new age in basketball and I dont think well see players like that anymore. Players are lazy, selfish..

And yea players get tired.. everyone gets tired.. but it is their JOB.
They have days off to rest, they have top of the line treatment/medicine.. they are pretty
much babied 24/7.. I do think players should be able to put forth that much effort for such a small amount of time.. hell, even during the game they get half time, coaches timeouts, tv timeouts.. I just have no sympathy for people who say they're too tired, or its too much, or its too draining..

You might not agree with that, and thats fine. We all have our own opinions.

I dont know if I covered everything you asked/inquired about.. I'm a little high
I figured

Yep that's very true as far as kg goes, but lebron actually guards 1's and 5's by design. For example just in this thunder series, he can come down the court and guard westbrook if they need him to in the 4th multiple possessions in a row, not just off pick and roll like garnett. As far as the 5 position goes, he started on perkins game 1 and guards him fairly often during the series so far.

As far as luol deng goes, him driving by lebron or catching lebron off guard for an easy basket etc. could be attributed to him making a mistake defensively like ball watching, closing out on deng and deng driving past, or the stuff you listed like him saving energy etc. Which I agree is bad, but sometimes it is necessary for him to be able to play at a high level the whole game offensively.

luol might put all his effort into defense the whole time he is out there, but that doesn't make him a better defender than lebron. Battier gives it 100% every possession and his defense is nothing to write home about at least now. But luol deng also is no where near a great offensive player, so the effort he puts into defense could very easily suffer if he were to be a higher level offensive player.

I agree, it's their job but I also see the reasoning behind not making lebron defend durant the whole game as that would make the offense suffer. Lebron doesn't slack off on defense as much as you are letting on though, not to mention he is putting in the effort offensively so it's not like he is doing nothing for 5 minutes out there offensively and defensively.

I doubt you could find one player that was great offensively while giving the level of energy somebody that only is in there for defense gives on defense.


Last edited by whothebestmc; 06-18-2012 at 10:52 PM..
 5 years ago '04        #52
Young Fab 1 heat pts
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Lmao so what does that say about Durant then? Cause he damn sho can't guard Lebron for 48 minutes
 06-18-2012, 11:02 PM         #53
Chip Tha Ripper 
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 whothebestmc said:
I figured

Yep that's very true as far as kg goes, but lebron actually guards 1's and 5's by design. For example just in this thunder series, he can come down the court and guard westbrook if they need him to in the 4th multiple possessions in a row, not just off pick and roll like garnett. As far as the 5 position goes, he started on perkins game 1 and guards him fairly often during the series so far.

As far as luol deng goes, him driving by lebron or catching lebron off guard for an easy basket etc. could be attributed to him making a mistake defensively like ball watching, closing out on deng and deng driving past, or the stuff you listed like him saving energy etc. Which I agree is bad, but sometimes it is necessary for him to be able to play at a high level the whole game offensively.

luol might put all his effort into defense the whole time he is out there, but that doesn't make him a better defender than lebron. Battier gives it 100% every possession and his defense is nothing to write home about at least now. But luol deng also is no where near a great offensive player, so the effort he puts into defense could very easily suffer if he were to be a higher level offensive player.

I agree, it's their job but I also see the reasoning behind not making lebron defend durant the whole game as that would make the offense suffer. Lebron doesn't slack off on defense as much as you are letting on though, not to mention he is putting in the effort offensively so it's not like he is doing nothing for 5 minutes out there offensively and defensively.

I doubt you could find one player that was great offensively while giving the level of energy somebody that only is in there for defense gives on defense.
I agree with the KG + LeBron stuff. I mean he's just one example But I think you got what I was getting at, so

I agree for the most part with what you said about Deng.. but like I said.. conserving energy for offense etc. doesn't fly with me. I get pissed when Rose gets caught sleeping on D. I dont think its right All in all, that conserving energy thing doesn't work with me. If you play better defense, you dont have to score as much

And Deng might not be a great offensive player, but he still puts up around 17 a game.
That aint bad for someone putting in max effort on defense on every possession and who doesn't have the strength, natural physical build, or God given athleticism that LeBron does.

I agree LeBron is always putting in the effort, but great effort doesn't mean quality play.. if you get what Im saying. I could go give max effort for half a game on defense, and not stop a damn soul hahaha.

And it depends on how you define great offensive player.. I dont define a great offensive player solely off his PPG, and Im not saying you do either
 06-18-2012, 11:03 PM         #54
Chip Tha Ripper 
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 Young Fab said:
Lmao so what does that say about Durant then? Cause he damn sho can't guard Lebron for 48 minutes
That he's a superstar on offense, but a liability on defense.

Dude has never been called a great defender
 5 years ago '05        #55
alkoholyck 2 heat pts
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LeBron hasn't been able to slow KD at all. That's because KD is actually the most unguardable player of his generation. No not Kobe. He just shoots a lot. Not even LeBron, he's only unstoppable in certain situations. KD can literally get a good shot off whenever he wants. But LeBron has shown time and time again he's probably the best perimeter defender in the league. Shut down Melo in the first round. Shut down Pierce in the conference finals. Shut down Granger in the semis. Shut down Rose last year. I could keep going. Anyone saying he's only good relative to other superstars is lying. He's great relative to anyone who's ever played the game. But that still doesn't mean he can stop KD. That dude is simply unguardable. Either he's gonna make or miss, mostly on his own accord.
 5 years ago '11        #56
whothebestmc 98 heat pts98
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 Gattsau said:
Why do people always say magic could guard all five positions. Dude was a below avg defender even against other PGS. Bron is 100x the defender magic was.
they get confused because magic played 1-5 on offense
 5 years ago '05        #57
alkoholyck 2 heat pts
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 Chip Tha Ripper said:
In response to both of this posts, yes I think he's overrated.
That doesn't mean I can't think he's still a good defender.

How fu*king hard is that to understand @TH35

People build him up to be some defensive guru who was the first player ever to guard all positions at different points in the game..

In the Celtics series alone, there was another player, who in his prime, did the same thing.
His name was Kevin Garnett.

Watch him play defense.. Melo torches him the majority of time, Durant does what he wants for the most part and shoots right over the top of him, Luol's slow a.ss drives by him.. A lot of the players get the shots they want while he's guarding them.

He gets all this credit because of chase down blocks.. and because his worthless role players, as everyone always calls them, bail him out. Most notably and under appreciated Joel Anthony.

Everyone calls him a GREAT defender.. in my opinion, great defenders dont take plays off to "reserve" their energy for offense. Great defenders can guard all game long. All this sh*t about how its too draining to play both sides all game long is bullsh*t.. (LeBron complaining when he had to guard a 4 for 2 games straight, all game. He's 6'9" 270 and he can't handle guarding some 4s who he's bigger than )

these athletes are getting paid to play basketball. ur job is to be in shape.
If ur telling me u can't play all-out, both sides for 48 minutes a day, then thats wack to me.

I can keep going, but 1. people are prolly already gonna post didnt read gifs 2. its pointless cuz I'm not gonna change anyones mind, cuz everyone on this site is pig-headed
You just said Melo torches him the majority of the time. LeBron has stepped up defensively MAJORLY in the last two years. and that showed in the first round. Melo couldn't do sh*t against him. Whenever Battier was on Melo, Melo abused him. Yet Battier is one of these guys that most people would try and argue is better defensively than LeBron but doesn't get as much recognition because he's not a superstar. The Knicks-Miami series literally went one extra game than it should have because Spo didn't want to keep LeBron on Melo the whole time.
 06-18-2012, 11:12 PM         #58
Chip Tha Ripper 
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 Gattsau said:
Who did Kobe ever shut down one in one. Look at him vs Boston both pp and ray torched him and Phil had to put him on a injured rondo.
1. Never said Kobe shut down anyone one on one.

2. Never said Kobe was a great defender, said he was a very good defender.

3. Some people, as seen by BX members responses, give LeBron a pass on Melo, KD, etc..
So why would it be different for Kobe who was playing a 4-5 year younger PP.. and chasing around the GREATEST shooter of all time in RayRay who was also years younger

4. I was referring to the Kobe of younger too.. during the first championship run and times around there..
 5 years ago '05        #59
alkoholyck 2 heat pts
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 Gattsau said:
U clearly missed game 3.
Ehh, I'd make the argument KD had a bad game. Obviously an extremely subjective thing to say. But I genuinely believe that KD can do whatever he wants unless he's having a bad game personally. The effect a great defender versus a good defender has on him is minimal IMO.
 5 years ago '11        #60
PrimeTimeJones3 11 heat pts11
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 Chip Tha Ripper said:
Kobe, at a point in his career was a really good defender. He also had a fire in him, that I dont link LeBron carries.. Kobe wud guard people cuz he wanted to guard them. A lot of the time, I think LeBron only guards certain players because he hears people saying something about it, or because he finally is told to. This year, he has taken on more challenges, and wanting to guard players more willingly.

I understand coaches do that.. but as an elite, an in this case probably best, player in the world, I think he is more than capable of taking on the extra effort.

I wouldn't necessarily say he slowed Melo down.. I would say injuries that forced Melo to have to try and do too much slowed him down.. he still got the majority of shots he always gets

Pierce dude is miles past his prime.. I hope LeBron could slow him down, IMO.

Rose got where he wanted on the floor when LeBron guarded him.. its when Rose hit a brick wall at the basket because of good help defense.. and like I said, he only would guard him for MINUTES at a time.. in the 4th quarter.. after he carried his team all game long, and the previous 2 series.
And you can say all you want, but after seeing what were capable of in the playoffs without him, you CANNOT argue that.

In my opinion, great defenders either lock up, overly frustrate players.
They dont slow em down for a minute here, or a minute there.

I think his flexibility, instincts, and average on ball defense is what makes him a good defender. But in my opinion, not great.
Personally as a defensive person you did your job if you make them take a tough shot...thats all you can do against an elite scorer...

Doesn't matter if they get where they want to go...they worked hard to get there...what else you want a person to do against an offensive skill player?
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