I Can't Believe We In The Year 2012 And People Still Don't Understand Why 2pac Is The GOAT

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 6 years ago '11        #141
Retro 83 heat pts83
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 kiddrocay said:
oh I diddnt know,but my argument still stands about that

who were you talking about though??
Nobody specifically. Let's say one of the Jay fans thinks he's tied for the best lyricist & has a better flow than Nas & Pac. Or a Nas fan thinks he's the best lyricist or top 3 in flow. Or a Pac fan thinks he's the best lyricist or top 3 in flow. Or Eminem who's the best in flow & top 3 in lyrics. There's a lot of ways you could flip it, I just wanna know why this method of finding the best isn't legitimate...
 6 years ago '11        #142
Retro 83 heat pts83
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 ballergenetics said:
Why ?
 Retro said:
Nah not DMX, I just used X as a place holder so people wouldn't get mad at who I named...
...Why would you laugh at a place holder?
 6 years ago '10        #143
kiddrocay 30 heat pts30
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 Retro said:
Nobody specifically. Let's say one of the Jay fans thinks he's tied for the best lyricist & has a better flow than Nas & Pac. Or a Nas fan thinks he's the best lyricist or top 3 in flow. Or a Pac fan thinks he's the best lyricist or top 3 in flow. Or Eminem who's the best in flow & top 3 in lyrics. There's a lot of ways you could flip it, I just wanna know why this method of finding the best isn't legitimate...
it is legit, which is why is hard to determine who is goat

none of those rappers are the best in every aspect, one will lack in what the other is really good at

when we put all of them together then we have what we call the goat, separated we have personal goats from the great 5

its like a video game if you get what im saying

all chars. have an overall and then theres the big bad boss at the end that is basically a combination of all the chars. plus more at th end
 6 years ago '11        #144
Retro 83 heat pts83
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 ballergenetics said:
It was a funny misunderstanding on Kid Roc's part. I quoted your post with it, so it could be seen better.
Ah. Well then, statement retracted...
 6 years ago '11        #145
Kingpin 313 104 heat pts104 OP
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 Retro said:
The list isn't in order but Jay was always in my top 10. He just wasn't that high...


This isn't about impact on American culture itself, it's about impact on the hip hop genre and culture. Nas has just as much pull in that area & you keep side stepping Illmatic because you don't have a counter argument. You can repeat yourself all you want but I keep giving reasons why your premises don't hold weight so what's the point? Maybe you should try to prove me wrong instead of proving yourself right...

Pac's messages were far more than the uplifting songs. You want me to talk about how early in his career he was a cop k!ller so his message to the youth was supposed to be against the government? You want me to talk about how after he got into it with Biggie his rage fueled more dangerous lyrics that the youth could try to emulate? There's more than one side to the 2Pac coin and you know it, quit acting like he was a saint.

And no, my list isn't in order. I need to switch Ice Cube & Mos Def though, slept on it and changed my mind...


Who is talking about American culture I'm talking about hiphop music for the inner city which pac made what does illmatic prove besides that nas has a classic album just like pac has 3 dear mamma had more impact than any song on illmatic and there wouldn't be double disc albums if it wasn't for all eyes on me All you gone tell me is how jay z sampled nas voice on a album nobody cared about until years later





You getting confused nas had impact but its not close to pac nas will tell you that himself you can't counter the argument that most rappers got pac DNA in there music theres no bigger impact than that period


Last edited by Kingpin 313; 06-10-2012 at 12:47 PM..
 6 years ago '10        #146
kiddrocay 30 heat pts30
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 Kingpin 313 said:
Who is talking about American culture I'm talking about hiphop music for the inner city which pac made what does illmatic prove besides that nas has a classic album just like pac has 3 dear mamma had more impact than any song on illmatic and there wouldn't be double disc albums if it wasn't for all eyes on me All you gone tell me is how jay z sampled nas voice on a album nobody cared about until years later





You getting confused nas had impact but its not close to pac nas will tell you that himself you can't counter the argument that most rappers got pac DNA in there music theres no bigger impact than that period
its no secret that pac prolly has the biggest impact but imma throw something at you

rakim is the reason rappers rap like they do today, his dna is in every rapper after himz

even soulja, waka, ying yang twins, blah blah blah

so what do you say about that
 6 years ago '11        #147
Kingpin 313 104 heat pts104 OP
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 Retro said:
Explain to me how you can have so much impact on a culture and genre without having any skill? You seriously think if Mike couldn't sing he'd be the greatest? You think if Mike couldn't ball he'd be the greatest? If Ali wasn't as quick and as strong as he was that he'd be the greatest?

And how the hell can you say the highlighted like it's a fact that Pac is the GOAT? Learn the english language first, I already told you that you didn't want to play semantics with me. Don't call me dumb and then make idiotic points like this...
Who thinks pac didn't have skill I said this 5 pages ago he the most versatile rapper of all time who has the best skill is debatable nas doesn't have the best flow biggie and Eminem does most people know this



Its like I'm repeating myself so no need to argue my points have been made
 6 years ago '11        #148
whothebestmc 99 heat pts99
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 ballergenetics said:
Try using them. Chill with calling us idiots too. You're one of the most notorious idiots on BX. You know this. Would be nice if we could have these type of discussions/debates without attacking one another sometime...lol
fu*k you jay the goat


 kiddrocay said:
I get around like the late makaveli-jay-z

03 boonie and clyde inspired by 2pacs me and my girlfriend

not saying jay-z wanted to be pac, but to still talk like jay-z still doesnt like pac

jay never had a problem with pac until pac got over emotional with his battle with big that he thought he should try to attack everyone that ever met big

He usually does a tribute during each of his shows that includes tupac.

You cats is home screaming the f!ght's on
I'm in the fifteen hundred seats, watching Tyson
Same night, same f!ght
But one of us cats ain't playing right, I let you tell it


Last edited by whothebestmc; 06-10-2012 at 12:57 PM..
 6 years ago '11        #149
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 Kingpin 313 said:
Who is talking about American culture I'm talking about hiphop music for the inner city which pac made what does illmatic prove besides that nas has a classic album just like pac has 3 dear mamma had more impact than any song on illmatic and there wouldn't be double disc albums if it wasn't for all eyes on me All you gone tell me is how jay z sampled nas voice on a album nobody cared about until years later

You getting confused nas had impact but its not close to pac nas will tell you that himself you can't counter the argument that most rappers got pac DNA in there music theres no bigger impact than that period
The part of hip hop culture I'm talking about is NOT the fans but the rappers themselves. Fans can get impacted by anything and everything, humans are impressionable creatures. When you have a craft & are better than good at it, all the while being surrounded by people who are better than good, the impact you make on these people would have to be stronger than it would be fans. You won't impress Lupe with a seemingly witty line from an average rapper. Just like you wouldn't impress Eminem with a seemingly flashy flow from an average rapper. You have to do more to get people to say what you did was the best of all time.

And this is why I don't like giving you examples. It's not supposed to be all the evidence I need in and of itself, it's supposed to reflect the impact on the culture but down sized to be put in terms you could understand. Illmatic has impacted far more than just Jay, I've made this point already. And maybe if you didn't only listen to 10 rappers you could hear the influence. Your ignorance (lack of knowledge before you cry about me using that word) about this is only fault of your own.

Nobody names one of Pac's albums the greatest of all time. He can't touch Nas in this regard and that's more than enough impact to show you that Pac isn't untouchable.

Again, all you keep doing is talking in circles. If this is all you have left then I'm done...
 6 years ago '10        #150
kiddrocay 30 heat pts30
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If we are talking about the most balanced rapper it would have to be Eminem, whether people like it or not

reason I dont like discussing this sometimes because most people are not open minded and tend to stan a lot in this augmentative topic
 6 years ago '11        #151
whothebestmc 99 heat pts99
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 kiddrocay said:
If we are talking about the most balanced rapper it would have to be Eminem, whether people like it or not

reason I dont like discussing this sometimes because most people are not open minded and tend to stan a lot in this augmentative topic
lol nah...I'm open minded but eminem isn't the most balanced rapper ever.
 6 years ago '11        #152
Kingpin 313 104 heat pts104 OP
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 Karamu said:
he's an icon, remaking/covering a song just shows that the original is dated. when people are rapping over dead presidents they don't fu*k with the beat because it still sounds good in 2012 even if you ain't a rap head. his lyrics are still recognized sure but the actual songs don't hold up as well as they used to. me against the world is an example of a classic that sounds dated.

not saying there's anything wrong with a song sounding dated, i'm just bringing it up
Once again we got somebody who thinks there opnion on how music ages is a fact
 6 years ago '11        #153
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 Kingpin 313 said:
Who thinks pac didn't have skill I said this 5 pages ago he the most versatile rapper of all time who has the best skill is debatable nas doesn't have the best flow biggie and Eminem does most people know this

Its like I'm repeating myself so no need to argue my points have been made
Pac isn't the most versatile rapper in any facet either. Pac touched a lot of subject matter in his career - then again so did Eminem. It may be weirder or not as "deep" as Pac's sh*t put together but don't act like Pac is in a league of his own subject matter wise. Common is another rapper that's like this.

You're repeating yourself because you side step every counter argument I give you and then reiterate it like I didn't say anything to refute it. For every example you've given me I've given you a counter example as to why Pac isn't how you say he is. Then all you do is say "yes he is" like that's supposed to help. We've been down this road before. Legitimate reasons make the argument. You didn't have any when you started this thread and you don't have any now...
 6 years ago '10        #154
kiddrocay 30 heat pts30
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 whothebestmc said:
lol nah...I'm open minded but eminem isn't the most balanced rapper ever.
how

technical skillz, flow, lyricism

eminem is a very techical rapper

eminem pours emotion into emotional tracks, can switch ish up like rapping from regular to fast to regular all in the same verse, very charismatic, and everything else included in flow

and he is lyrical

pac isnt technical

biggie isnt that lyrical, very one dimensional

jay is overrated in lyricsm, very monotone, lacks emotion

nas is very monotone, lacks emotion

Eminem has them beat, I know hes white blah blah blah, who cares. credit is given when its do
 6 years ago '11        #155
whothebestmc 99 heat pts99
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 kiddrocay said:
how

technical skillz, flow, lyricism

eminem is a very techical rapper

eminem pours emotion into emotional tracks, can switch ish up like rapping from regular to fast to regular all in the same verse, very charismatic, and everything else included in flow

and he is lyrical

pac isnt technical

biggie isnt that lyrical, very one dimensional

jay is overrated in lyricsm, very monotone, lacks emotion

nas is very monotone, lacks emotion

Eminem has them beat, I know hes white blah blah blah, who cares. credit is given when its do
monotone wasn't one of your 3 components to being the goat. you said lyricism, flow, technical skills. is that all you think it takes to be the goat? Their track record(discography/features/etc), the main criteria, means nothing?

You don't expect much from a goat, if that's the case it's none of the people you listed.


Last edited by whothebestmc; 06-10-2012 at 01:11 PM..
 6 years ago '11        #156
Kingpin 313 104 heat pts104 OP
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 Retro said:
The part of hip hop culture I'm talking about is NOT the fans but the rappers themselves. Fans can get impacted by anything and everything, humans are impressionable creatures. When you have a craft & are better than good at it, all the while being surrounded by people who are better than good, the impact you make on these people would have to be stronger than it would be fans. You won't impress Lupe with a seemingly witty line from an average rapper. Just like you wouldn't impress Eminem with a seemingly flashy flow from an average rapper. You have to do more to get people to say what you did was the best of all time.

And this is why I don't like giving you examples. It's not supposed to be all the evidence I need in and of itself, it's supposed to reflect the impact on the culture but down sized to be put in terms you could understand. Illmatic has impacted far more than just Jay, I've made this point already. And maybe if you didn't only listen to 10 rappers you could hear the influence. Your ignorance (lack of knowledge before you cry about me using that word) about this is only fault of your own.

Nobody names one of Pac's albums the greatest of all time. He can't touch Nas in this regard and that's more than enough impact to show you that Pac isn't untouchable.

Again, all you keep doing is talking in circles. If this is all you have left then I'm done...


You just said a bunch of nothing again nobody names pac albums as the GOAT you sound like a idiot you dont speak for everybody and all that proves is that more people like that album it has nothing to do with the artist get rich or die trying had more impact than any scarface album so is 50 cent the better artist?


There's nothing else to argue about if you think nas had a bigger impact than pac you dumb nas is barley talked about now so just image 15 years after he die pac get brung back to life every year no matter if its a song or hologram
 6 years ago '10        #157
kiddrocay 30 heat pts30
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 whothebestmc said:
monotone wasn't one of your 3 components to being the goat. you said lyricism, flow, technical skills. is that all you think it takes to be the goat? Their track record(discography/features/etc) means nothing?
I diddnt say goat or anything Im talking about the most well balanced rapper out of the great 5

monotone falls under flow
 06-10-2012, 01:11 PM         #158
Karamu 
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 kiddrocay said:
how

technical skillz, flow, lyricism

eminem is a very techical rapper

eminem pours emotion into emotional tracks, can switch ish up like rapping from regular to fast to regular all in the same verse, very charismatic, and everything else included in flow

and he is lyrical

pac isnt technical

biggie isnt that lyrical, very one dimensional

jay is overrated in lyricsm, very monotone, lacks emotion

nas is very monotone, lacks emotion

Eminem has them beat, I know hes white blah blah blah, who cares. credit is given when its do
Jay and Nas lack emotion?


[video - click to view]


[video - click to view]


and define lyricism
 6 years ago '11        #159
whothebestmc 99 heat pts99
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 kiddrocay said:
I diddnt say goat or anything Im talking about the most well balanced rapper out of the great 5

monotone falls under flow
ok we will put monotone under flow, I mean is this in a vacuum or something? do we just ignore relapse, recovery, encore? do we just ignore subject matter?


Last edited by whothebestmc; 06-10-2012 at 01:15 PM..
 6 years ago '11        #160
Kingpin 313 104 heat pts104 OP
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 Retro said:
Pac isn't the most versatile rapper in any facet either. Pac touched a lot of subject matter in his career - then again so did Eminem. It may be weirder or not as "deep" as Pac's sh*t put together but don't act like Pac is in a league of his own subject matter wise. Common is another rapper that's like this.

You're repeating yourself because you side step every counter argument I give you and then reiterate it like I didn't say anything to refute it. For every example you've given me I've given you a counter example as to why Pac isn't how you say he is. Then all you do is say "yes he is" like that's supposed to help. We've been down this road before. Legitimate reasons make the argument. You didn't have any when you started this thread and you don't have any now...

Common versatile? Let me hear his club and party songs that people listen to



Pac got classic songs in every category of rap club songs introspective tracks storytelling dark songs nobody else could make a song about anything a classic and a hit
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