I Can't Believe We In The Year 2012 And People Still Don't Understand Why 2pac Is The GOAT

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 6 years ago '11        #1
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Kingpin 313 104 heat pts104
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I Can't Believe We In The Year 2012 And People Still Don't Understand Why 2pac Is The GOAT
 

 
Before we get into the topic, let’s first define the word “Great”. Most people use it interchangeably with “Best”, but each word has separate meanings. To call someone the “Greatest” is to say they have changed and/or transformed their original, intended purpose and transcended to a higher level in comparison with their peers. To call someone the “Best” is to say they are at the top of their game. “Great” refers to everything as a whole. “Best” refers to the few aspects or qualities that are being judged. Let’s look at an example.

In Boxing, Muhammed Ali is considered by most as the Greatest Boxer of All Time. But, if you ask many Boxing historians they wouldn’t vote for him as the “Best Boxer of All Time”. Most would give that title to Sugar Ray Robinson or Joe Louis. But ask yourself why? What is the difference? The answer...Culture. No one would ever argue that Muhammed Ali wasn’t a beast in the ring. But his legacy goes DEEPER than the boxing ring. He fought during a time of political and societal un-rest. During a time when America was warring, not only with other countries but with itself. His persona, ethics, and rebellious nature struck a chord in not only Americans, but other countries. That is Greatness. That is Tupac.

Tupac had his own style…he didn’t sound like anyone that came before him. That is Greatness. His versatility is un-paralleled. Before Tupac, most hip hop albums were mono-chromatic. Meaning, if you bought a Gangsta Rap album, you could rest a.ssured that you would get 10-12 songs of pure chaos. The same held true for Lyricists, “New Jack Swing”, “Party Rap” etc. But Tupac was a Poet first, Rapper second. Including Eminem, there has yet to be a Rapper to truly perfect every single style all wrapped up in one person. In one album, he could make you

Dance – “California Love” Laugh – “What’z Ya Phone #” Cry – “Life Goes On” Get Crunk – “You Can’t See Me” Get Lyrical – “Got My Mind Made Up” Pimp – “How Do You Want It” Get Political – “Wonda Why They Call U bi-ch” Think about Life – “I Aint Mad At Cha” Think about Society – “Shorty Wanna Be A Thug” Swag out – “Picture Me Rollin” Romantic – “Heaven Aint Hard To Find”

But how? Because he was a Poet first, Rapper second. He wrote from the heart. Not only what he saw and experienced, but what he felt and couldn’t say any other way. In the same hour, he could write a song like “Hit Em Up” and then “Dear Mama” because he was that complex. He was consistent in his values and they never wavered from album to album, including posthumous music.

Nowadays the music industry is all business and about sales. So people tend to compare him to other rappers using those criteria. But if you do, you have to place everything in its proper perspective. During Tupac’s era there were no digital downloads. Hip Hop artists didn’t have million dollar recording budgets. They didn’t have six-figure Marketing budgets either. But even more importantly, Hip Hop wasn’t as international as it is now. Tupac was the first Rapper to have two #1 albums in a row in the Billboard's top 200 albums chart. According to Forbes, by 2007 Tupac had sold over 75 million albums worldwide making him one of the best selling artists in the world.

But the accomplishments that really bother fans are the ones judged by his peers...especially in Hip Hop. MTV ranked him as #2 Greatest of All Time…VH1 had him at #3. Which I find interesting because most, if not all, polls done by fans have him ranked at #1 including MTV’s “22 Greatest MCs of All Time” as voted by viewers and Vibe Magazine’s poll. The Rolling Stone magazine has him ranked as #86 on their “100 Greatest Artists of All Time” list which ranks all genres. And though I would still f!ght you on the fact they ranked “Run DMC” and “Public Enemy” ahead of him…there’s nO F@#$%N way Eminem and Dr. Dre should be ahead of Tupac. That’s a bad joke.

Tupac’s Legacy goes deeper and further than the sound booth. How many other rappers…check that…musicians can you say that about? That is Greatness. In Hip Hop, there isn’t a Rapper born or alive from 1990 until now that doesn’t have Tupac’s DNA in their music, whether they admit to it or not. Until very recently, no artist could compare to Tupac’s international fanbase. As I travel to different countries in Europe and Latin America there are 3 t-shirts I’d bet you a plane ticket you will see: Che’ Guevara, Bob Marley, Tupac Shakur. There are Tupac murals all around the world. You would expect them all around California, but did you know about the one in Sierra Leone, Africa (posted above)? You expect to see a tribute outside the Tupac Amaru Shakur Center for the Arts in Georgia, but did you know there is a statue that greets guests outside the entrance to the MARTa Museum in Herford, Germany (posted below)?






[pic - click to view]




How many rappers can you name that have Harvard Symposiums about them? How many other rappers can you name that have College Professors teaching their lyrics? That is reserved for poets such as Edgar Allen Poe, Henry David Thoreau, or Ralph Waldo Emerson. Add Tupac Amaru Shakur to that list.

Still not convinced? Refer back to the definition of “Great” and “Best”…now consider this:

On Wednesday, June 23, 2010, Tupac was inducted to the Library of Congress’s National Recording Registry. They chose “Dear Mama” as one of only 25 important recordings chosen by the Library of Congress for preservation due to the song’s cultural and historical importance.

Ok, I have one more for you…

Almost exactly eleven years after its posthumous release, Tupac’s 1998 hit "Changes" was selected by the Vatican (yes as in THE Catholic Church) as one of their "12 Favorite Songs"! It was the first time the Catholic Church officially recognized the work of any popular American artist. Tupac and “Changes” were included with the likes of "Don Giovanni" by Mozart, the Vatican's own "Advocata Nostra," featuring the voice of Pope Benedict XVI, and "After The Rain," by Dame Shirley Bassey.

Tupac Shakur is the "Greatest" Rapper of All Time.

225 comments for "I Can't Believe We In The Year 2012 And People Still Don't Understand Why 2pac Is The GOAT"

 6 years ago '05        #2
YARKONE 4 heat pts
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I wish I had two voices!!
 06-09-2012, 08:19 PM         #3
the synthesis 
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Pac is the GOAT

but everyone has their own opinion,
 6 years ago '11        #4
Retro 83 heat pts83
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On and on about legacy & more pop culture references, no legitimate reasons for why he's a better rapper than anybody just why he's dope in his own regard which some I agree with. This isn't anything I haven't heard before & it still holds little weight like it did back then.

For all of these points for Pac there's also plenty for against. The fact that he contradicted himself on multiple occasions both off and on wax is one. The theory that his death was a self fulfilling prophecy is another. The fact that he got into it with a lot more people than usual that he's close to suggests something is off.

Look I can go on & on. Unless someone tell me how he's lyrically better than everybody else there's no argument here because we all know he isn't the most technical...
 6 years ago '04        #5
justinjones 307 heat pts307
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and this thread was birthed by



also there is no goat because everybody can't agree on that
 6 years ago '11        #6
Kingpin 313 104 heat pts104 OP
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People don't understand what greatest mean its all about impact Jordan isn't the best basketball player of all time there's players that could beat him but he called the greatest because of his impact on basketball





You argue over who the best but not who the greatest


Last edited by Kingpin 313; 06-09-2012 at 08:25 PM..
 6 years ago '11        #7
Retro 83 heat pts83
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Best & greatest mean the exact same thing, playing semantics won't get you out of this one. I'll be back in here with a reply to your other post in that thread...
 6 years ago '12        #8
Dee352 170 heat pts170
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Pac is the GOAT

Everyone knows this
 6 years ago '11        #9
Kingpin 313 104 heat pts104 OP
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 ballergenetics said:
Cool how you make it seem like you actually wrote this.
When did I say that I posted the link in the other thread


 6 years ago '11        #10
Retro 83 heat pts83
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 Kingpin 313 said:
I said almost every rapper bit off pac I already made a thread about this and nobody could name 10 rappers that came after pac that didn't bite off of him

Everything I named is off of music not movies they didn't put 3 statues in Germany of pac because he played in juice

And yeah read the article
One of the greatest singles (Dead Presidents) samples Nas off of Illmatic. That album has had more impact on the culture in different ways than just lines getting bit.

And they didn't only do it because he rapped either. Like I said there's more to this than you're willing to acknowledge. Just because you don't want to doesn't mean it isn't there...
 06-09-2012, 08:28 PM         #11
the synthesis 
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 Retro said:
Look I can go on & on. Unless someone tell me how he's lyrically better than everybody else there's no argument here because we all know he isn't the most technical...[/B]
Being technical doesnt make u the best rapper thats just one element of rapping,one type of style.

A MC has only ever had one job from the beginning of hip hop = Move the crowd.

You can spit technical, you can spit poetry, you canmake up words, you can spit basic, as long as u strike a chord with the audience.

Nas might be able to go over dudes heads, Pac might keep it straightforward, however they both reach the audience in the way they want too. If everyone rapped like Nas, hip hop would be wack, same way if everyone rapped like Pac.

You might prefer technical rappers, i cudnt give a fu*k about a technical rappers
 6 years ago '04        #12
#1nasfan 
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I disagree
 6 years ago '04        #13
justinjones 307 heat pts307
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this doesn't make any sense. greatest and best basically means the same thing. so if nas is the broat and pac is the goat then you're basically saying its a tie. Or am i just misreading all of this
 6 years ago '11        #14
Retro 83 heat pts83
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 the synthesis said:
Being technical doesnt make u the best rapper thats just one element of rapping,one type of style.

A MC has only ever had one job from the beginning of hip hop = Move the crowd.

You can spit technical, you can spit poetry, you canmake up words, you can spit basic, as long as u strike a chord with the audience.

Nas might be able to go over dudes heads, Pac might keep it straightforward, however they both reach the audience in the way they want too. If everyone rapped like Nas, hip hop would be wack, same way if everyone rapped like Pac.

You might prefer technical rappers, i cudnt give a fu*k about a technical rappers
I actually don't prefer more technical rappers. My most listened artists are the straight forward type. None of this answered my question though. There's more to rapping than just lyrics too. If I wanted to hear you read I'd buy an audiobook...
 6 years ago '11        #15
Retro 83 heat pts83
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 justinjones said:
this doesn't make any sense. greatest and best basically means the same thing. so if nas is the broat and pac is the goat then you're basically saying its a tie. Or am i just misreading all of this
He's trying to play semantics with this so he can differentiate & put Pac where he wants...
 06-09-2012, 08:35 PM         #16
the synthesis 
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 Retro said:
I actually don't prefer more technical rappers. My most listened artists are the straight forward type. None of this answered my question though. There's more to rapping than just lyrics too. If I wanted to hear you read I'd buy an audiobook...
Like is said whoever "Moves You" the most is who u prefer.

Pac moves me musically more than Nas, but thats just me, not everyone, feels, or hears what i do.

The GOAT is debatable, each to his own, subjective. How can someone get mad at another persons taste in music? why even debate it?


Unless we are talking sales thats the only way we can get factual, everything else is an opinion
 6 years ago '11        #17
Kingpin 313 104 heat pts104 OP
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 Retro said:
On and on about legacy & more pop culture references, no legitimate reasons for why he's a better rapper than anybody just why he's dope in his own regard which some I agree with. This isn't anything I haven't heard before & it still holds little weight like it did back then.

For all of these points for Pac there's also plenty for against. The fact that he contradicted himself on multiple occasions both off and on wax is one. The theory that his death was a self fulfilling prophecy is another. The fact that he got into it with a lot more people than usual that he's close to suggests something is off.

Look I can go on & on. Unless someone tell me how he's lyrically better than everybody else there's no argument here because we all know he isn't the most technical...


contradicted? Its called being human nobody feels the sameway all the time and Its called being versatile nas tried to make club songs and couldn't like alot of rappers that's one of the reason pac the greatest he could make a song about anything



And its not just pop culture its hiphop 90 percent of rappers bit off pac nobody had a bigger impact on hiphop period
 06-09-2012, 08:38 PM         #18
the synthesis 
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All rappers contradict, all humans contradict.

Human nature.

Talib be fu*kin hoes and throwing money at strippers too
 6 years ago '04        #19
justinjones 307 heat pts307
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 the synthesis said:
Like is said whoever "Moves You" the most is who u prefer.

Pac moves me musically more than Nas, but thats just me, not everyone, feels, or hears what i do.

The GOAT is debatable, each to his own, subjective. How can someone get mad at another persons taste in music? why even debate it?


Unless we are talking sales thats the only way we can get factual, everything else is an opinion
and thats why i never thought there was a goat. it would come down to 5 people and nobody would agree on anything.

2pac, biggie, jay-z, nas, and eminem.

none of their fans/stans/whatever would back down and say that the other is greater/better than them
 6 years ago '10        #20
kiddrocay 27 heat pts27
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pac is one of the goats

each of the rappers we argue that are goat bring something different to the table that makes us call them goat

nas is my personal fav. goat
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