Is LeBron Jame$ the Best Player Since Michael Jordan? (First Take Debate) (video)

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Is LeBron Jame$ the Best Player Since Michael Jordan?
Ye$ 46 42.59%
No 62 57.41%
Voters: 108. Sorry, you cannot vote on this poll (Boxden members only)

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 6 years ago '10        #141
Matrix 52 heat pts52
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 Gd_UP said:
you have got to be fu*king kidding me.

90% of his game is the combination of the speed, acceleration, STRENGTH, AND SIZE.

if lebron was under 6'6" he would be nothing more than deron williams
.

If Bron was under 6'6, he's Dwyane Wade....
 6 years ago '04        #142
erickonasis 20 heat pts20
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Durant > Lebrick


and its not even close
 6 years ago '08        #143
EMER1TUS 11 heat pts11
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 X_WunderKind_X said:
Shaq??? Duncan???Kobe??? Hakeem even???
Right, all these n*ggas got Rings yet Bron is the guy "they" talknbout being the best since MJ we a decade in his career and he still sitting on donuts my n*gga.

 SeaJaiye said:
as a player, kobe is nowhere on bron's level. he's a one dimensional scorer kobe in his prime = losing 3-1 series leads in the first round

lebron in his prime = MVP awards and deep postseason runs
jordan in his prime = MVP awards and deep postseason runs

as a player, kobe cant compare
You're such a troll

In Bron's Prime he has a sweep in the Finals and he quit against the C's on his resume.

and either you give me Kobe is still in his Prime or face the fact that a n*gga in the twightlight of his career led the league in scoring until the last game of the season---either way this point alone makes you look bad.
 6 years ago '11        #144
SugaHillRomello 1 heat pts
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 6 years ago '05        #145
_Player2 208 heat pts208
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He's the 2nd best player since MJ, after SHAQ.
 6 years ago '11        #146
Backflipz 84 heat pts84
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 EnlightenMe said:
you misrepresented the point of what i was trying to say by disregarding the sentences right after. yes one person doesn't equal a whole era. did you read the part where i said how man times those two (wilt and russ) matched up with each other in relation to other star players of today's game? that was my point. and even if i told you about some of the players and teams that i haven't already mentioned during wilt's day like you would dismiss them because you don't know who they are or are just arrogant. that era collectively played defense whether you want to admit it or not.

since you like numbers here are some for you. during wilt's career the league average for fg% was .438. while during bron's time (used bron because that was the subject of this thread) it is .453. now take into account during wilt's day that there wasn't a three point line and that most shots were taken closer to the basket and that's a big statistical disparity. before you say players couldn't shoot either, free throw percentage has stayed the same throughout league history (which is the only fair statistical metric we can use). and it's not as if players couldn't shoot from outside so to not space the floor (i.e. jerry west, havliceck, rick barry, gail goodrich, elgin baylor, oscar robertson). so if no one cared about defense why were players shooting a lower percentage league wide? and keep in mind there were far less teams back then and less players playing. meaning the really good and elite players would skew the averages more heavily back then than they do now. it's not like anyone would be forcing them into tough shots because no one played defense according to you; so how do you explain the disparity?

and i like how you didn't address any of my other points in my other posts as well and just dismissed them
You want me to address your other points?

Cmon now, Yes wilt had an amazing motor for playing 48.5 minutes a game, but if you think no one could do that today then that is just crazy. If he can do it, I'm sure someone else could as well.

Second, I'm not necessarily saying they can't shoot. But the ridiculous pace of the game definetely made them chuckers. Teams were throwing up 110 shots a game (30 more than today) and 35 (15 more a game) free throw attempts a game. They had no rhyme or reason in the way they shot because it would be back on their end of the court in less than 5 seconds. The high free throw rate also gives light to the fact that either they were sloppy on defense or Were in a rush to foul him before he could even get a shot. Another inflation of Wilt's numbers due to the way they played.

Maybe I was wrong to say nobody gave a fu*k on defense, Maybe it is better to say they didn't on offense. Thereby making defense easier.


Last edited by Backflipz; 05-10-2012 at 01:04 PM..
 6 years ago '12        #147
Fearless Genius 72 heat pts72
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 Frank Hampton said:
You want me to address your other points?

Cmon now, Yes wilt had an amazing motor for playing 48.5 minutes a game, but if you think no one could do that today then that is just crazy. If he can do it, I'm sure someone else could as well.

Second, I'm not necessarily saying they can't shoot. But the ridiculous pace of the game definetely made them chuckers. Teams were throwing up 110 shots a game (30 more than today) and 35 (15 more a game) free throw attempts a game. They had no rhyme or reason in the way they shot because it would be back on their end of the court in less than 5 seconds. The high free throw rate also gives light to the fact that either they were sloppy on defense or Were in a rush to foul him before he could even get a shot. Another inflation of Wilt's numbers due to the way they played.

Maybe I was wrong to say nobody gave a fu*k on defense, Maybe it is better to say they didn't on offense. Thereby making defense easier.
i'm not saying someone couldn't do it in today's game regarding the minutes stat. but they would have to get in better cardio shape to do it. if the heat play 7 games against the pacers in the 2nd round bron couldn't play every minute of that series, let alone an 82 game season. it would be something he'd have to work to condition his body to do over time. secondly, there are tradeoffs for being a better cardio athlete. you lose physical strength. the most classic example is the difference in body mass and muscularity between a long distance runner and a sprinter. so if wilt didn't have to play as many minutes as many of the stars do, he could put on more mass and strength. there are alot of historical citations that wild could bench upward of 500 to 550 pounds. more conservative estimates put him at 425 to 465. just for reference dwight's max bench is 365. strength is especially important for post players.

the difference in fga attempts is about 20, not 30 on average. and teams attempted about 8 more free throws. two things, first those attempts are split between all the players. so even let's just say he gets half of those attempts which is very liberal, he still dropped 50 in a season. secondly you said they didn't care on offense (your words not mine) so wouldn't wilt's efficiency dropped playing in the 60's game. it would most likely go up playing today's game. and it's not like they were just running up and down the floor not worrying about shot selection. yea it was quicker, but pretty much every player in that day could run. it wasn't out of the ordinary for centers to be part of transtion baskets. more players for the offense running in transition situations, more advantageous it is for the offense, and the quicker a scoring opportunity presents itself. you should watch games and see how centers like wilt and russell would run up and down the floor before the game began to slow down in the later half of their careers. wilt would run circles around dwight in terms of cardio. wilt was a star track and field athlete in college. keep in mind to that guys like jordan, magic, and bird had an advantage too in pace in comparison to today's stars (not to the same extent obviously).

keep in mind too these guys were playing in chuck taylors. it's easy to imagine that if wilt was an 80's baby he would be a better player because he would benefit from todays nutrition, technology, and equipment.

basically what it boils down to is that both eras have their advantages and disadvantages to playing in both eras. micheal jordan, kobe, and bron's game would look alot different had they been playing in the 60's. not saying wilt would average 50 ppg in today's game, but it's not farfetched to think he could average close to 30 or more. the man was way ahead of his time. he was doing fade away jumpers off the glass and running the floor throwing behind the back passes in his day. people need to respect these guys but they don't because they a.ssume basketball of previous generations sucked when that is obviously not the case.

and latly keep in mind stats like PER (which i hate but alot of people use as propaganda for their favorite player) are adjusted for pace of play (and they didn't have stats for blocks and steals in wilt's day). wilt chamberlain was still put up PER's over 31 3 times and had a career PER of 26.1. for comparison purposes lebron did it wnet over 31 twice and has a career PER of 27.2.




  146 - 42 STRK: 4 w in a row WIN PCT: 77% 19 (0) 
  Career: | Aug 17: 97-57, Rank #29 | Aug 16: 2-0, Rank #224 | Aug 14: 11-8, Rank #285 | Aug 13: 1-0, Rank #480 *


Last edited by Fearless Genius; 05-11-2012 at 12:53 AM..
 5 years ago '04        #148
God_Manifested 19 heat pts19
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