Junior Seau Dead in Apparent Su!cide

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 05-02-2012, 10:28 PM         #501
Based Messiah 
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 jplaydadon said:
there is a such thing as chronic depression. there is a possibility of a neurological problem that induced him to do what he did. hell he could have had some slight brain damage. and no medications, and therapy only very rarely work to cure neurological disorders. the brain doesnt regenerate or cure itself. all of those things are possible, plus we dont know waht substances he continually put in his body over the course of a career. how can you dare sit here and say what is and what isnt justification for suicide, especially knowing that football players but their bodies through so much trauma. THAT is selfish if anything else, or not even allowing for the possibility of a physical cause. not only could he have been dealing with brain damage induced depression, he could be dealing with stressful sh*t in his personal life, like that combined with mid life crisis, trying to find a post football identity, which is VERY hard for a lot of athletes, who have built their entire being on playing a game for the majority of thier lives. etc. etc. etc. one member on here talked about how one of his kids didnt like him. who knows if something like that couldnt affect him, esp in his post football days when he has more time to spend with his family. he could have realized a lotta past uncorrectable mistakes, along with what ever was wrong. it could have been a combo of all of that.

and again, depressed people can sometimes be violent, and he could have harmed someone else, someone close to him, like his wife and/or kids. only he knows what impulses he had and im sure that factored into his decision. some of yall really cant see outside of yourselves. whats worse, a lot of yall probably have never picked up a reputable book on the brain and how it works. if everybody thought like yall, there would be no way for these current players to know if they are at risk for something after football.he isnt the first football guy to commit suicide, and he might no be the last. thats the problem with gross individualism and being judgemental, it keeps you tunnel visioned and from seeing the bigger picture
I agree with alot of what youre saying but at the same time I dont buy the neurological excuse(Yes, I do know how the brain works). You know who else has neurological problems and chemical imbalances in the brain? Child molesters, rapists, serial k!llers, and sociopaths. How come they dont get a pass? Where do you draw the line? If he would have been violet towards others in his depression and k!lled someone do you use the same, "Oh he was dealing with brain damage" excuse? He still did something horrible is just so happens that it was to himself. There is absolutely no justifiable reason for suicide in my opinion. I dont care how damaged your brain is or what kind of problems you have going on at a neurological level, there is only one person to blame in all of this.
 6 years ago '10        #502
Figueroa 34 heat pts34
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 kg81 said:
RIP, but if you take yourself out no fu*ks given!
then why even post a RIP?
 05-02-2012, 10:29 PM         #503
Walt Thizzney 
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dudes a loser I aint shedding a tear
 6 years ago '10        #504
Smoke500 37 heat pts37
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 Based Messiah said:
I agree with alot of what youre saying but at the same time I dont buy the neurological excuse(Yes, I do know how the brain works). You know who else has neurological problems and chemical imbalances in the brain? Child molesters, rapists, serial k!llers, and sociopaths. How come they dont get a pass? Where do you draw the line? If he would have been violet towards others in his depression and k!lled someone do you use the same, "Oh he was dealing with brain damage" excuse? He still did something horrible is just so happens that it was to himself. There is absolutely no justifiable reason for suicide in my opinion. I dont care how damaged your brain is or what kind of problems you have going on at a neurological level, there is only one person to blame in all of this.
Your argument still makes no sense

Child Molestors, rapists, serial k!llers, and sociopaths do all need mental help. They're kept away from the world so as not to harm anyone

Those kinds of people existing does not make his argument invalid. The fact is depression and neurological disorders ARE real...what you essentially did was throw politics and judgment into it...which has nothing to do with science

The truth is if therapy wasn't so taboo there'd be a lot less violence in this world. And comparing suicide to those things you mentioned is...well.....irrational.


If you cannot see the difference...and if you say there's no excuse for it as if a human being can control their own brain disorder...then you really should just give up your computer and stop arguing...to be honest...
 6 years ago '12        #505
ALTheGreatS 23 heat pts23
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Rest In Peace
 6 years ago '04        #506
chirpflare 173 heat pts173
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rip
 6 years ago '07        #507
xxgoodzxx 1 heat pts
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He always comes into the restaurant I work at and gets fish and chips.... He died literally 5 minutes away from where I work. This is creepy. He came in on Saturday. Makes you think what was going through his mind over the weekend...
 05-02-2012, 11:07 PM         #508
Based Messiah 
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 Smoke500 said:
Your argument still makes no sense

Child Molestors, rapists, serial k!llers, and sociopaths do all need mental help. They're kept away from the world so as not to harm anyone

Those kinds of people existing does not make his argument invalid. The fact is depression and neurological disorders ARE real...what you essentially did was throw politics and judgment into it...which has nothing to do with science

The truth is if therapy wasn't so taboo there'd be a lot less violence in this world. And comparing suicide to those things you mentioned is...well.....irrational.


If you cannot see the difference...and if you say there's no excuse for it as if a human being can control their own brain disorder...then you really should just give up your computer and stop arguing...to be honest...
My point is that if youre going to sympathize with someone who can cause this amount of harm to those closest to them, then why not also lend your emotions to everyone with said neurological disorders? His crime shouldn't get a pass.

suicide and murder go hand in hand, that comparison is valid.

Just because he wasnt in control of his disorder doesnt give him a pass.


Last edited by Based Messiah; 05-02-2012 at 11:10 PM..
 6 years ago '10        #509
Smoke500 37 heat pts37
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 Based Messiah said:
My point is that if youre going to sympathize with someone who can cause this amount of harm to those closest to them, then why not also lend your emotions to everyone with said neurological disorders? His crime shouldn't get a pass.

suicide and murder go hand in hand, that comparison is valid.

Just because he wasnt in control of his disorder doesnt give him a pass.
How can you logically...not be given a pass for something out of your control? Now we're talking philosophical perspective...you must support your argument with logic and reason.

So once again...how can something out of your control be held against you?

Comparing taking the life of someone else with their own family to taking away your own liberty and freedom...that logic cannot hold up in a rational debate

There are many mental conditions out there. If this is how you really feel...then perhaps we should banish all rehab and psychiatric centers and let people fend for themselves. Once again...I hope your family member never goes through this. It's almost the equivalent of blaming a retarded child for not being able to succeed in normal society

And btw...there's a reason why pre-meditated crimes get more severe punishments than emotionally charged or mental crimes. It is because human emotions and nuerological disorders is not a constant...it can not be ultimately defined and does not operate in the realm of logic and reason. It is part of the human condition...your argument would hold true if humans in general operated like a pre-programmed computer. You do not simply turn off depression
 05-02-2012, 11:24 PM         #510
Based Messiah 
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 ra1n said:
It's not a matter of "giving someone a pass" or not (whatever the fu*k that means)

Your comparing apples to oranges.

Your comparing someone who is emotionally hurting people by their suicide to someone committing PHYSICAL harm (death, molestation, etc.) to other persons

Just a bad analogy.
He did commit physical harm, guy k!lled himself. Who's to say he wasnt a step away from harming someone else?

Im not comparing the crimes at all. Im just saying that people always sympathize with the neurological disorder/chemical imbalance excuse when is comes to suicide but not in other cases. I just think its an excuse to justify your emotions for someone who just did something absolutely terrible.
 6 years ago '08        #511
Illuminati 192 heat pts192
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Not all was perfect. He had married young and divorced 10 years and three children later. He was investigated but not charged for domestic violence after a f!ght with his girlfriend in 2010. Hours afterwards his SUV drove off a sheer cliff and onto the beach 30 meters below. There was speculation that had been a suicide attempt, but Seau said he merely fell asleep while driving.

Most lives aren't perfect, but when an athlete or former athlete dies young it's somehow harder to accept theirs could be damaged enough that they would want to end it.

Part of what makes sports and an athlete such powerful symbols is that what they do and how they do it somehow allows them to be transcendent, at least from a distance. If all that talent, success, money, fame and respect doesn't elevate them from the rut the rest of us are stuck in, what hope for us?

But being human is a permanent condition. So the disturbing questions, made fresh by Seau's death is whether playing football with every fibre in his being somehow made him even vulnerable to his darker self?

How did those thousands and thousands of hits affect his brain, which is as fragile as anyone else's?

How difficult is it to manage the day-to-grind of waking every ordinary day when you've experienced the jolt to the nervous system that playing in the NFL every Sunday surely provides?

Did football make a troubled Junior Seau's life more bearable than it would have been for so many more years than it otherwise would have?

Or did football and the battle scars he earned playing it so long and so hard ultimately make Seau's life unbearable?

Some answers would be welcome. According some reports NFL players have a suicide rate six times the national average. Three retired NFL players -- Ray Easterling and Dave Duerson, and now Seau -- and have shot themselves to death in the past 18 months. Easterling, 62, had shown signs of dementia and launched a lawsuit against the NFL. Duerson, 50, shot himself in the chest to make sure his brain could be examined after death -- it showed signs of chronic traumatic encephalopathy, a degenerative brain disease linked to depression, dementia and insomnia.

Where Seau fits in this ugly picture may become clearer later. Today we only know that a relentless gridiron warrior was stilled by bullet to the heart by his own hand, far from the field of battle.

And we can only wonder about the pain he was in must to have left those who loved him so much forever wounded that way.

Michael Grange is a columnist for sportsnet.ca and a senior
 6 years ago '10        #512
Smoke500 37 heat pts37
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 ra1n said:
It's not a matter of "giving someone a pass" or not (whatever the fu*k that means)

You're comparing apples to oranges.

You're comparing someone who is emotionally hurting people by their suicide to someone committing PHYSICAL harm (death, molestation, etc.) to other persons

Just a bad analogy.
Pretty much

And you know what? If there was a human being out there who was known to be born with mental damage harmed another being....they would be held away from society. But they would not be treated like any typical pre-meditated murderer with no brain damage

Seriously...if we're gonna blame people for mental disorders we might as well tell people with Tourette's syndrome to shut the fu*k up

These people have no clue about depression. They have either never experienced it or seen it. I have known perfectly normal and sane women for example who wanted to k!ll themselves after being r*ped...or a friend who almost committed suicide because he lost his father. Dude was a wreck...and he was the coolest dude you'd ever meet. They all needed therapy...and are still under watch

Depression can really fck you up....no matter what causes it

And yet here we're talking about suicide. So it's an even more terrible analogy
 6 years ago '10        #513
Trilluminati GA 433 heat pts433
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 USC said:
Just watched this



Can't believe this was less than a month ago.


[pic - click to view]

 6 years ago '10        #514
Smoke500 37 heat pts37
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 Based Messiah said:
He did commit physical harm, guy k!lled himself. Who's to say he wasnt a step away from harming someone else?

Im not comparing the crimes at all. Im just saying that people always sympathize with the neurological disorder/chemical imbalance excuse when is comes to suicide but not in other cases. I just think its an excuse to justify your emotions for someone who just did something absolutely terrible.
No matter which way you spin it....every human being is entitled to their human rights and liberty. Making any connection with taking your own life(due to depression or anything similar), to taking away ANOTHER person's human rights and liberty is just way too far out of left field. Because the bottom line in the latter case would be that an innocent person lost their life because of it...even if the aggressor had issues
 6 years ago '06        #515
Sammyboi22 
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suicide by chest shot? Seems strange but damn RIP.
 05-02-2012, 11:41 PM         #516
Based Messiah 
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I havent shunned therapy or any sort of rehab at all. Ive agreed with you guys for the most part. I completely agree that help should be more available and accessible.

Like I said in my previous post...

Im not comparing the crimes at all. Im just saying that people always sympathize with the neurological disorder/chemical imbalance excuse when is comes to suicide but not in other cases. I just think its an excuse to justify your emotions for someone who just did something absolutely terrible.

Depression is not an excuse for taking your own life and neurological disorders/chemical imbalances arent excuses for committing crimes.

I just dont sympathize or feel the way you do about it.


And I completely agree about that hypothetical person you created. They would be held away from society. Im not saying not to help that person, but I do think that it would be completely justifiable to keep them from society.
 6 years ago '05        #517
bigpinero 3 heat pts
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 Walt Thizzney said:
dudes a loser I aint shedding a tear
shut the fu*k up you fu*king disrespectful f*ggot

RIP to Seau
 6 years ago '04        #518
jplaydadon 9 heat pts
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 Based Messiah said:
I agree with alot of what youre saying but at the same time I dont buy the neurological excuse(Yes, I do know how the brain works). You know who else has neurological problems and chemical imbalances in the brain? Child molesters, rapists, serial k!llers, and sociopaths. How come they dont get a pass? Where do you draw the line? If he would have been violet towards others in his depression and k!lled someone do you use the same, "Oh he was dealing with brain damage" excuse? He still did something horrible is just so happens that it was to himself. There is absolutely no justifiable reason for suicide in my opinion. I dont care how damaged your brain is or what kind of problems you have going on at a neurological level, there is only one person to blame in all of this.
not only does your argument not make sense for the aforementioned reasons stated by the other poster, but those people have mental symptoms that often go untreated and undiagnosed as well, because there is a stigma about being labeled weird, or crazy, or suicidal and people tend to put the blame on the individual instead getting that person treated for whatever it was in his/her immediate environment that habituated their brains to act a certain way. (i could even talk about the effect of Monoamineoxidase A and domestic abuse and how that affects behavior and such). they could have genetic factors as well as environmental factors contributing to that behavior. personally i dont agree with how the prison system deals with mentally ill people. we have a system where we just throw valuable people away and use their illnesses as an excuse to exploit them in the prison system. and the general culture doesnt help, because who would be comfortable going to a therapist to say they were attracted to children, or had a tendency to wanna r*pe someone. not many, its not a comfortable thing to do and ppl are very quick to judge, as evidenced by this thread. and many of us dont care, because we are so hell bent on competing and gettin a leg up on another. that whole system is fu*ked up, but its fu*ked up for an exploitative purpose. in addition to that i do think we need to re evaluate the things we put in front of ppl in society as well. we live in a hyper-s3xualized culture, a hyper violent culture, inside and outside the prison (ironically we allow violence in there, as if thats supposed to rehabilitate ppl and is quite contradictory if you ask me), we live in a bad physical environment where ppl are exposed to all kinds of chemicals that are and could be in other cases, causing imbalances in behavior and development. there is all kinds of sh*t going on. again, the extraordinary need some of you have to judge others keeps you from gettin to the roots of those problems and helping stop them from happening.

and no you must not understand the brain, what you said didnt make any sense at all. if your brain is damaged, in a physical sense, where you arent transmitting or producing certain transmitters that induce good feelings in a certain area of the brain, or you cant feel positive emotions (this happens), you can be led to suicide. you cant think outside of your brain, your brain is your thinking. thats just as retarded as saying, a person who has Alzheimer's should be able to remember their childrens names, despite them being literally incapable of remembering because of plaque buildup or degeneration of their neurons. or better example, telling kids who have been habituated to have ADD to sit down and be disciplined, when there is a serious imbalance in the types of transmitter being secreted, leading to hyperactivity. that makes no sense.

as far as the possibility of him hurting someone close to him, i addressed that eariler. and he probably did have those inclinations, which could be a factor in him k!lling himself. that would make it a wise move honestly, esp if he was really damaged.
 05-02-2012, 11:55 PM         #519
Based Messiah 
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 jplaydadon said:
not only does your argument not make sense for the aforementioned reasons stated by the other poster, but those people have mental symptoms that often go untreated and undiagnosed as well, because there is a stigma about being labeled weird, or crazy, or suicidal and people tend to put the blame on the individual instead getting that person treated for whatever it was in his/her immediate environment that habituated their brains to act a certain way. (i could even talk about the effect of Monoamineoxidase A and domestic abuse and how that affects behavior and such). they could have genetic factors as well as environmental factors contributing to that behavior. personally i dont agree with how the prison system deals with mentally ill people. we have a system where we just throw valuable people away and use their illnesses as an excuse to exploit them in the prison system. and the general culture doesnt help, because who would be comfortable going to a therapist to say they were attracted to children, or had a tendency to wanna r*pe someone. not many, its not a comfortable thing to do and ppl are very quick to judge, as evidenced by this thread. and many of us dont care, because we are so hell bent on competing and gettin a leg up on another. that whole system is fu*ked up, but its fu*ked up for an exploitative purpose. in addition to that i do think we need to re evaluate the things we put in front of ppl in society as well. we live in a hyper-s3xualized culture, a hyper violent culture, inside and outside the prison (ironically we allow violence in there, as if thats supposed to rehabilitate ppl and is quite contradictory if you ask me), we live in a bad physical environment where ppl are exposed to all kinds of chemicals that are and could be in other cases, causing imbalances in behavior and development. there is all kinds of sh*t going on. again, the extraordinary need some of you have to judge others keeps you from gettin to the roots of those problems and helping stop them from happening.

and no you must not understand the brain, what you said didnt make any sense at all. if your brain is damaged, in a physical sense, where you arent transmitting or producing certain transmitters that induce good feelings in a certain area of the brain, or you cant feel positive emotions (this happens), you can be led to suicide. you cant think outside of your brain, your brain is your thinking. thats just as retarded as saying, a person who has Alzheimer's should be able to remember their childrens names, despite them being literally incapable of remembering because of plaque buildup or degeneration of their neurons. or better example, telling kids who have been habituated to have ADD to sit down and be disciplined, when there is a serious imbalance in the types of transmitter being secreted, leading to hyperactivity. that makes no sense.

as far as the possibility of him hurting someone close to him, i addressed that eariler. and he probably did have those inclinations, which could be a factor in him k!lling himself. that would make it a wise move honestly, esp if he was really damaged.
The argument has really become much more philosophical than cut and dry facts.

The comparison of the non-violent brain disorders dont apply, as they didnt in my argument (never meant to compare them).

I don't mean to judge. Im just stating that I dont sympathize with your "blame society" point of view on the matter.
 6 years ago '05        #520
2 Pistolz 13 heat pts13
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Have they figured out the motive yet????
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