Apr 9 - Arizona bill declares women pregnant two weeks before conception

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 6 years ago '04        #141
matelyan 21 heat pts21
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 easybreezy88 said:
It seems to me that you are feeling guilty about it and are trying to justify what has happened ?
I don't feel sorry, remorse or regret. And you still haven't answered my question:

How is a private medical matter that only concerns me, the woman and our doctor all of a sudden become an issue in which you and our government can inject your opinions and views and actually have it influence our lives?
 04-11-2012, 11:12 AM         #142
easybreezy88 
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I think we need to drop the stigma surrounding s3x and start better preparing the children of this nation for the inevitable. I think a combination of contraceptive, abstinence until ready and additional s3xual education should be taught at schools across the nation. Kids are going to engage in s3xual behavior whether we want them to or not. My mom wouldn’t let me talk on the phone to girls and said they were the devil while I grew up. Then once she wasn’t looking I became s3xually active really quickly and wish that we had both taken a better approach to the subject. We need to inform the kids, not tell them they shouldn’t be doing something without providing an explanation. I have a 14 year old freshman niece in high school. And I don’t ever want her having s3x. But her parents and I know it’s going to happen, so we keep an open forum and discuss anything she wants to talk about. And thankfully she’s not into boys yet.
That is a very good point. I do agree that kids are going to do it anyway . However it should be frowned upon by their parents. I do believe that things could be handled to better make sure unplanned pregnancy does not happen ... ie birth control offered in high school ....

People think that is a crazy idea but like you said kids are going to do it anyway , so why not be on the offensive side and make sure they don't get pregnant ?
 04-11-2012, 11:13 AM         #143
easybreezy88 
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How is a private medical matter that only concerns me, the woman and our doctor all of a sudden become an issue in which you and our government can inject your opinions and views and actually have it influence our lives?
It doesn't! However all you said was you , the woman , and your doctor .....who then advocates for the child? Or do they just not get to have a say as to if they want to live or not ?
 6 years ago '04        #144
matelyan 21 heat pts21
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 easybreezy88 said:
That is very true . However your conscience is a really strong power that dwells on you after a while.

Look this is a never-ending debate.

It will never be an issue that people will agree on .
We're passing time and being civil. No harm in that? And I just want people to have the opportunity to make these decisions by being both well informed and still free to do so. In an ideal world we would all be much more caring, responsible and not have to rely on abortions because we would never allow ourselves to get to that point. But that is not how things play out all the time and sometimes an abortion becomes a necessity.
 6 years ago '04        #145
matelyan 21 heat pts21
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 easybreezy88 said:
It doesn't! However all you said was you , the woman , and your doctor .....who then advocates for the child? Or do they just not get to have a say as to if they want to live or not ?
Unfortunately in these types of situations the fetus, child, thing will never have a voice. It sucks, but at the end of the day I think it would be much more responsible to allow the two people who will end up having to care for it make that decision.
 6 years ago '04        #146
regularjoe 58 heat pts58
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 easybreezy88 said:
That is a very good point. I do agree that kids are going to do it anyway . However it should be frowned upon by their parents. I do believe that things could be handled to better make sure unplanned pregnancy does not happen ... ie birth control offered in high school ....

People think that is a crazy idea but like you said kids are going to do it anyway , so why not be on the offensive side and make sure they don't get pregnant ?
Edit: What should be frowned upon?
 04-11-2012, 11:19 AM         #147
easybreezy88 
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We're passing time and being civil. No harm in that? And I just want people to have the opportunity to make these decisions by being both well informed and still free to do so. In an ideal world we would all be much more caring, responsible and not have to rely on abortions because we would never allow ourselves to get to that point. But that is not how things play out all the time and sometimes an abortion becomes a necessity.
Agreed.

I would not ever have one , but I can not make decisions for others. I do wish that others would at least learn about what is happening before just trying to fix a problem .

Like a class or something you take before you have the abortion.

I am not saying it is my or anyone's right to take these rights from people, I guess i just wish it wasnt something that people needed . I wish people would be more responsible so that something so innocent didn't have to be the one to take the repercussions of someone else s irresponsibility


Last edited by easybreezy88; 04-11-2012 at 11:22 AM..
 04-11-2012, 11:20 AM         #148
easybreezy88 
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 regularjoe said:
Edit: What should be frowned upon?
Kids having s3x
 04-11-2012, 11:42 AM         #149
Drone 
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In today’s society there is so much s3xualization in different social mediums that’s it’s nearly impossible to stop kids from learning about them. Kids will have s3x because its so openly accepted in today’s society. Unless, society as a whole can be socially engineered to allow kids to understand how tough it is to raise a child and refrain from s3x, it will be hidden under the rug. Abortions I do agree, should be used when both individuals who performed the s3xual intercourse have a joint decision. The fact of the matter is, in a purely economic sense abortions would be correct choice on the country as a whole. But this debate stems from a moral structure, when it should be glanced at a relativist point of view. Many individual with long or short religious backgrounds feel strongly that abortion is the morally wrong thing to do but understand that a teenage parent have a very grim look on life. Did they make the wrong decision to have s3x? Correct. But should they banished from chances of success is nonsense. The ability of a woman to have control of her body is critical to civil rights. Take away her reproductive choice and you step onto a slippery slope of government control.

This debate will go on for decades between the polar opposites of views. Every situation is different, so please do not paint a moral cloud over the individuals in question.


Last edited by Drone; 04-11-2012 at 12:40 PM..
 6 years ago '04        #150
matelyan 21 heat pts21
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 Darkdrone said:
In today’s society there is so much s3xualization in different social mediums that’s it’s nearly impossible to stop kids from learning about them. Kids will have s3x because its so openly accepted in today’s society. Unless, society as a whole can be socially engineered to allow kids to understand how tough it is to raise a child and refrain from s3x, it will be hidden under the rug. Abortions I do agree, should be used when both individuals who performed the s3xual intercourse have a joint decision. The fact of the matter is, in a purely economic sense abortions would be correct choice on the country as a whole. But this debate stems from a moral structure, when it should be glanced at a relativist point of view. Many individual with long or short religious backgrounds feel strongly that abortion is the morally wrong thing to do but understand that a teenage parent have a very grim look on life. Did they make the wrong decision to have s3x? Correct. But should they banished from chances of success is nonsense. The ability of a woman to have control of her body is critical to civil rights. Take away her reproductive choice and you step onto a slippery slope of government control.

This debate will go on for decades between the polar opposites of views. Every situation
:agreement6::agreement6::agreement6:
 6 years ago '05        #151
DaViLLe726 3 heat pts
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 S0ap said:
what if she was r*ped? she didn't choose sh*t, some as*hole chose for her.

also, don't blame it on responsibility. there are millions of un-responsible parents out in the world that should have had abortions but didn't. what sounds more responsible: a baby being born by a poor mother that doesn't want the kid and probably won't give a sh*t about it when its born. or a poor mother that doesn't want the kid so instead of giving it a sh*tty childhood both are not ready for, so she aborts it.
Less than 1 percent of r*ped woman count for abortions. If thats the case take the morning after pill the next day and or when you go to the hospitol after being r*ped.

You literally answered my own statement. It only comes down to responsibility. The poor mother shouldnt fu*k in the first place if shes not ready for the consequences of what could happen. If your not ready for a kid than dont have s3x.
Oh is that so hard for someone??? its not realistic? is that going to be your reply?
Bottom line its responsibility. People want to be able to have s3x because they are selfish and when a baby comes into play they dont want to be respobsible for there actions. Its very very simple. if you dont ever want a baby than get your fu*kin tubes tied. have all the s3x you want.
 6 years ago '04        #152
JBeezy 1 heat pts
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Why is the unborn child only considered a child when someone else harms it, but when the mother decides to k!ll it, all of a sudden, oh well, it's just a fetus and it was her decision? There has to be middle ground between the religious fanatics that say life beings at conception those who want it legal in all forms.

I agree, a woman should be able to make decisions regarding her own body. If that means destroying yourself with drugs/alcohol, or getting being a damn hooker. That's your right as a free individual. But don't sit here and pretend like you getting an abortion because either you were too big of a dumbass to make sure you were using contraception correctly (or not at all), or you were fu*king with a guy who did the same, that it's a black and white issue that people can't have opinions about it. And to so when your not financially ready for a child means you're an even bigger dumbass.

Like I said earlier in the thread, if a doctor can be held liable for doing something that harms the fetus, why is the mother off the hook? His accident and your choice both share the same result....a dead fetus. And before anyone gets all fired up let me remind you that I'm not talking about all abortions at every stage of pregnancy and I'm excluding r*pe and cases where the mother's life are in jeopardy.
 6 years ago '05        #153
Nasty Nate 21 heat pts21
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People never heard of condoms?
 6 years ago '12        #154
noverum 
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 HHS said:
The biological reality that pregnancy can only occur in women means that a man loses control of the decision, that's true, but that can't be reconciled without a gross violation of a woman's right. And I might agree with your argument if we were talking about the woman's right to expect support, but we're actually talking about the child's right to expect support, and it is part of no decisions here. Because remember, we're actually not talking about alimony, we're talking about child support, and child support is about protecting the rights of the child, not the rights of the woman. A fetus is not a child, and since pregnancy occurs in a woman's body, she has complete rights over her body, and at that stage it is only her decision to stop the pregnancy. A man can also prevent a pregnancy by not inserting his p*nis into a v*gina, an act any man knows can result in pregnancy. That's when a man controls his own destiny with regards to a potential pregnancy.

Once birth occurs, you then have a child with it's own rights, which include the right to support from the parties in its conception.
If abortion is legal, the existence of a child is entirely the responsibility of the person who is able to terminate its existence prior to birth. If it becomes patently clear through explicit documentation that a woman will not be receiving support for the child from another party if she decides to go through with the pregnancy, it is entirely her responsibility to make the correct decision with that information considered.
Do not forget that - according to advocates of abortion - there is no child until it's born; so there is absolutely no excuse for a woman to give birth to a child that she knows she cannot support.
 04-11-2012, 01:07 PM         #155
Drone 
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 noverum said:
If abortion is legal, the existence of a child is entirely the responsibility of the person who is able to terminate its existence prior to birth. If it becomes patently clear through explicit documentation that a woman will not be receiving support for the child from another party if she decides to go through with the pregnancy, it is entirely her responsibility to make the correct decision with that information considered.
Do not forget that - according to advocates of abortion - there is no child until it's born; so there is absolutely no excuse for a woman to give birth to a child that she knows she cannot support.
Excellent post. Feminist cry how the women can do things without a man, and then they complain when the man isn't there. Female thinking politicians have their balls so insnared by the feminist that they can't think straight. We need an open dialogue on this issue immensely because if laws don't change, then the population growth rate will be constant and population declination will occur.
 04-11-2012, 02:57 PM         #156
dibdob 
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[pic - click to view]

 04-11-2012, 05:18 PM         #157
Drone 
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 dibdob said:

[pic - click to view]

 6 years ago '04        #158
HHS 1 heat pts
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 noverum said:
If abortion is legal, the existence of a child is entirely the responsibility of the person who is able to terminate its existence prior to birth. If it becomes patently clear through explicit documentation that a woman will not be receiving support for the child from another party if she decides to go through with the pregnancy, it is entirely her responsibility to make the correct decision with that information considered.
Do not forget that - according to advocates of abortion - there is no child until it's born; so there is absolutely no excuse for a woman to give birth to a child that she knows she cannot support.
You keep talking about the woman receiving support, which is inaccurate. Child support provides for the child, the right to that support is a right held by the child. And the existence of the child is the responsibility of both parties who contributed genetic material to make it. If the father was given custody of the child, the woman would be responsible to pay support. A man goes into s3x knowing that it can result in pregnancy, and knowing that the choice of whether or not to have an abortion is up to the woman, so he has all of the relevant information to know the responsibility he's taking on.


Last edited by HHS; 04-11-2012 at 08:01 PM..
 6 years ago '07        #159
Ham Rove 3511 heat pts3511 OP
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lol @ clowns actually co-signing that someone is pregnant two weeks before conception.
 6 years ago '05        #160
harvey dent 
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Arizona is the dumbest state in the country
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