Mar 26 - Trayvon Martin Killing Lead Prosecutor Says George Zimmerman Could Walk

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 6 years ago '04        #121
erickonasis 20 heat pts20
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[QUOTE=Freemind;22705908]


If I see someone walking on my property, QUOTE]

Your not a cop....Call them. The boy wasnt doing anything. Now if he was breaking into something or committing a crime and you felt the need to do something about then i could see .
 6 years ago '04        #122
One-O-One 14 heat pts14
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We need to see some hospital records for Zimmerman that night. IF we ever see him again, he better look like he got his face pummeled a month ago.

Zimmerman is going to have to prove deadly force was necessary for a 17 yr old kid swinging on him.

In my opinion, you should only discharge a gun when there's another deadly weapon involved, not just a fist f!ght tussle in the grass.

If that was legal, you know how many ppl would be dead right now b/c of f!ghts & then somebody simply shooting or stabbing whoever is winning..? This isn't the wild west.
 6 years ago '05        #123
daliff89 1 heat pts
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 Freemind said:


So its ok for Trayvon to beat his as because he asked what he's doing there?

If I see someone walking on my property, and I go out and confront them with a weapon (and have a concealed weapons permit), and ask him what he's doing there, he starts beating my a.ss, I can't defend myself because I approached him?
No, that's battery.

But like I said; you can't just walk up to someone, say whatever you want, then when they get pissed and hit you shoot them in the chest.

If I run up one someone and say, "Get out of my yard you (applicable racial slur)!" then I started the conflict. Anything that happens after that directly stemmed from what I said. Even if I don't throw a punch, I still started the f!ght.

And you don't need a permit to carry on your own property in Florida. They have a "stand your ground" law that says you're legally allowed to use deadly force in any place you are legally allowed to be and legally allowed to carry any time you feel your life is in danger or someone is committing a violent felony.

i.e. Martin is in a Wal-Mart parking lot beating a man with a baseball bat, Zimmerman pulls out his licensed pistol and shoots him in the chest. Zimmerman would be justified.

But because Zimmerman had no proof Martin was committing a violent felony -- by law in Florida it's not felony a.ssault / battery until use of a weapon is involved, or if Zimmerman was an EMT / cop / fireman / over 65 (this is something Zimmerman should know since he was convicted of felony a.ssault; which in Florida basically means he threatened a cop, not actually hit them) -- then he has no right to use deadly force.

 ra1n said:
Gonna have to disagree. I am aware he initiated the chain of events. But it is not against the law to "pursue" someone.
To my knowledge, Zimmerman didn't go up to him Face-to-face

Allegedly, It was Trayvon who came around while Zim was heading back to his truck. This is where the confrontation happened and Zim got beat up.

Zim felt his life was in danger and therefore used lethal force.
You can disagree all you want, Zimmerman still initiated the conflict.

Initiating conflict negates and right you have to use deadly force..

If it didn't, people could come up behind you and tell you to run your wallet, then when you resist they can shoot you and claim self defense.

 ra1n said:
This is where we disagree. Show me this law. or I'll make it easy for you...show me a news article that says "he forfeited any right he had to use deadly force"

Then, I'll consider it.
I don't need an article, it's things you learn when you're getting a concealed carry permit.

The right to use deadly force in Florida is granted by Castle Doctrine



There's that article.

Florida is one of the states with a "Stand Your Ground" law.



There's that article.

Here's Flordia's specific law

776.012 Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or
(2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.
That states that the only legally justifiable use of deadly force occurs when you think you're about to die, you think you're going to be permanently disfigured, or you think you're preventing a forcible felony (like murder, manslaughter, r*pe, etc.)

He shot an unarmed person that he pursued. The law states he has no duty to retreat, not that he's allowed to follow then use deadly force when he thinks he's in deep sh*t.

Now, according to the laws, Martin committed misdemeanor battery on Zimmerman. Zimmerman was authorized to hit Martin back, but not to k!ll him.

The defense is going to use the "great bodily harm" part of the law to argue that Zimmerman felt he was going to be permanently disfigured by Martin beating his a.ss, which then gives him the right to use deadly force. However, the fact that Martin didn't have a weapon logically points to the fact that Zimmerman overreacted
 6 years ago '05        #124
daliff89 1 heat pts
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 April Moon said:
You're an idiot. If you decide to f!ght because somebody asks you what you're doing, then you're the aggressor.
Aggressor, but not initiator.

If you pull a knife on me and I shoot you, I'm the aggressor. But, a.ssuming that I'm legally carrying that firearm, I'm not going to go to jail because you showed intent to cause bodily harm to me.

However, if you punch me and I shoot you, I'm the aggressor and I'm going to go to jail because it's not reasonable to a.ssume my life was in danger just because you punched me.
 6 years ago '05        #125
daliff89 1 heat pts
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Again, Florida law states that battery is a misdemeanor until a weapon is used.

I've not seen anything that states Martin was using any type of weapon (or bashing Zimmerman's head against pavement, which would make the pavement a weapon), therefore he did not commit a forcible felony.

I wonder if you guys really understand how the law works..
 6 years ago '05        #126
daliff89 1 heat pts
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"Bodily harm" is legally defined as imminent death or imminent permanent disfigurement.

If I have a shotgun pointed at your head, you (or someone with you) can shoot me. If I have a chainsaw getting ready to chop your hand off, you (or someone with you) can shoot me. If I punch you in the face, you (or someone with you) break the law by shooting me. You used deadly force to stop non-deadly force, you escalated the situation.

It's not reasonable to a.ssume, barring evidence of actual disfigurement, that just because someone is hitting you they're going to k!ll you
 6 years ago '10        #127
WalmartRollback 3 heat pts
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 Freemind said:


i know he ignored the dispatchers orders... everyone fu*king knows that already.

but just because he ignored their orders doesnt mean he cant protect himself if he gets attacked... why is this so hard for people to get.

lets put it like this... you call the cops cause you come home and find your house being broken into... they tell you to stay put, but you got a bunch of cash in there and aint loosing it... you go inside anyways and the thief attacks you... going by your train of thought... you dont have the right to k!ll him because you were told not to go inside... its no longer self defense because you defied the cops orders.
Terrible analogy... You described an evident crime taking place versus Zimmerman putting himself into a situation that he lost control of.

If Zimmerman listened to the dispatcher, then this whole situation would be moot.
 03-26-2012, 03:45 PM         #128
killya 
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if he walks he will probably be dead a week later.
 6 years ago '05        #129
daliff89 1 heat pts
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 ra1n said:
The law says:

"If he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself

or

to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony"

In other words, he didn't need to commit a "forcible felony"
He just had to reasonably believe that great bodily harm was being committed
You keep preaching "legal" stuff but don't understand how the law works..

Martin had no weapon, period. Unless he was using the environment as a weapon (i.e. bashing Zimmerman's head into the pavement) he committed misdemeanor battery.

If no felony was committed by Martin, Zimmerman had no right to use deadly force.

Legally of course.

Legally, this is the equivalent of someone running a red light and you purposely rear-ending their car so they fall over a cliff. You're not justified to use deadly force to stop the commission of a misdemeanor.
 6 years ago '04        #130
HotBYoungTurk 13 heat pts13
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I'm not wishing death on anyone.. but someone is gonna k!ll dude if he gets off..
 6 years ago '05        #131
daliff89 1 heat pts
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 Im Soo Special said:
I cant front unless mine is touched i aint with eye for eye

but if somebody did get him... i wouldn't have no sympathy honestly

all of this giving people the right to k!ll people with guns need to be changed and stopped. nobody should be out there k!lling ppl with guns period
While I agree that nobody should be out murdering people with guns, that doesn't mean that outlawing guns is going to stop gun crime..

Criminals break the law, that's why they're criminals. Why is it reasonable to believe that, just because a law making guns illegal is passed, criminals will obey that law?
 6 years ago '08        #132
gangsta_blck 9 heat pts
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MANE,every time I read sh*t on this story I get hot,But god gone take care of it or a motha fu*ker on the street.....
 6 years ago '05        #133
Rubix 
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 Freemind said:
there is no proof zimmerman picked the f!ght.

lets say zimmerman walked up to trayvon and said "what are you doin here?".... tryavon says "what are you following me for?"... so zimmerman asks him again "what are you doing here".... and then bam Trayvon starts whooping his a.ss...

not that im saying this happened but nobody knows.

if zimmerman doesnt start the altercation why cant he defend himself? because cops told him they dont need him to follow trayvon.... well he did anyways....

so because zimmerman did what cops told him not to he cant protect himself?

i aint defending Zimmerman... but Stand Your Ground says you can shoot someone in self defense... and it doesnt say "unless you were told by law enforcement not to pursue the suspect".

had zimmerman stayed in his car, yes this wouldnt have happened.... but if trayvon started the f!ght, which we dont know, then this also would have never happened.



this whole case is fu*ked up, too much media on it now, and too many people think theyre "informed". when the reality is half the people ignore anything that supports Zimmermans use of force.
homie you're only allowed to use force equal to the amount used on you to claim self defense. even if trayvon was "whooping his a.ss," zimmerman had at least 80 lbs on him and trayvon was unarmed. you can't just approach any random person whom YOU think looks suspicious and shoot them because you feel threatened by them...
 6 years ago '05        #134
daliff89 1 heat pts
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 Im Soo Special said:
thats fine, atleast we know those who commit gun crimes will be locked up. thats the point

not walk away scott free which this law allows
You're the type of person that I was talking about in my first post..

The Justice Department says this:

According to the 1997 Survey of State Prison Inmates, among those possessing a gun, the source of the gun was from -
1) a flea market or gun show for fewer than 2%
2) a retail store or pawnshop for about 12%
3) family, friends, a street buy, or an illegal source for 80%


That means that only 20% of guns used in gun related crimes are required by the offender in a legal manner (meaning they bought it themselves).

Your idea would reduce the occurrence of gun crimes by around 20%, while leaving all the law abiding gun owners unarmed against the people who aren't law abiding citizens..
 6 years ago '05        #135
young jeezy478 1 heat pts
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First off, he shouldnt have been stalking this kid in the first place because he was not commiting a crime and he is not an officer....and due to the number of dispatch calls this guy has made in the last year, its obvious that something is wrong with him, And secondly for all you CRAKKAS(yea i said it) who are trying to indirectly justify this bullsh*t, what if the a.ss whooping that Trayvon put on him was in self defense, what if he was attacked and had to whoop Zimmerman's a.ss. There is no way around this sh*t, its wrong and needs to be handled accordingly. This would be so different if the hues were swapped
 6 years ago '07        #136
Pistol Peter 33 heat pts33
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 Supa Mario 910 said:
It's great to tell ourselves that, but we KNOW that won't happen. I'm tired of this bullsh*t and I'm tired of devils defending evil a.ss actions such as this. The Black Man will always be the most persecuted person walking the face of the Earth.
yup...as much as we want him to get his he wont...justice or street justice wise it probably wont happen...he will go on living his life and he probably wont get either...everything thing will be all good with him and his fam they will see him and he will see them and trayvons will mourn him until the day that they die


in the words of plies why yall hate us so much?
 6 years ago '07        #137
keithbm1111 97 heat pts97
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 BlaKc said:
You crakkkas better hope he gets locked up because if not random attacks on whites will be all over worldstarhiphop for the next couple months
Racist f*ggot
 6 years ago '05        #138
daliff89 1 heat pts
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 ra1n said:
Lmao, I love how you're telling me I don't "know how it works" yet I'm pasting the EXACT law that you pasted.

I understand Martin had no weapon, no sh*t.

Did you not see the "OR" in the law?

I'll paste it again

"If he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm OR to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony"

it doesn't say "AND"

And I told you, according to reports, He was using the pavement. Now, you can disagree with that premise but the evidence (lacerations to back of head / 13 year old witness / Zimmerman's account) all point to that happening
And I'm saying you don't know what "forcible felony" means..

Unless he actually was using the pavement as a weapon, Martin committed no felony.

I've gotten in f!ghts in a street and left with "lacerations" on my head, but the guy I was f!ghting didn't bash my head against the concrete.

A laceration is just breaking of the skin. I could skin my knee playing basketball, I'd have a laceration.

Since Zimmerman doesn't have a concussion, it's not reasonable to a.ssume that "lacerations to the back of the head" equates "bashing his head against pavement."
 03-26-2012, 04:06 PM         #139
Stayburnin 
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the florida laws dont make sense. i feel like its really hard to get convicted of murder if there is no witnesses. someone k!lls someone in the alley way and they say he attacked me first. is that really all it takes nowadays. in jersey zimmerman is doin life, no questions asked.
 6 years ago '05        #140
daliff89 1 heat pts
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 Im Soo Special said:
Im not seeing your point ? In fact what you're saying is soooooooooo far from what Im saying
You're saying we should outlaw all guns so that people who commit gun crimes are prosecuted.

I showed how only 20% of gun crimes were committed with guns legally obtained by the offender.

You want to take away the ability for those 20% of people to own firearms, that would drop off that 20% but it'd bar the people who legally obtained their firearms and don't use them illegally from protecting themselves from the other 80%
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