The Dream Says Black Singers Canít Do Soul Anymore

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 6 years ago '09        #41
That Guy Fly 21 heat pts21
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For the record I dont even fu*k with Dream's music but he does make some hits that get you moving in the club. But, he is far from the soul he is speaking on though.
 03-19-2012, 11:54 PM         #42
bigree61  OP
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how can you have soul music without poor black people

there is no soul because they refuse to put money behind any black people and most of all no poor black women

sh*t is so sad

fu*king sell out a.ss house n*ggas who do have any power what so ever are worst than the hunkys

tell dream to do some music for some young girl out the A instead of katty perry and we might get somewhere
 03-20-2012, 12:02 AM         #43
bigree61  OP
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 TedMundy said:
IS THE SAME THING IN HIPHOP. RAPPERS USING AUTOTUNE TRYING TO SING AND BE MORE POP NOW.And the white rappers like Eminem can be hardcore come out with songs about k!lling kim and diss songs about popular singers like Mariah Carey. MGK for instance even tho we kno he's soft hes not POP at all he raps like a hiphop rapper,but he's not good.Most of the rappers that win Grammys now have a pop type song. Jayz and Kanye, ESPECIALLY KANYE win all these grammys for a reason.

These white folks stole this country from indians,they stole Rock n Roll and Soul from us. And now they're doing it to hiphop. Because the majority of the consumers of music ARE WHITE.I TOLD ALOT OF IDIOTS this is why Eminem's record sales are always high. The majority of his fanbase are white.Aint no n*gga breaking his neck to by no damn Eminem Cd.

A black guy rapping hiphop like it should be rapped now,makes a white think he's a gangster stereotype and wont be as marketable,but in their eyes it doesnt look as bad if a white guy does it and will make them more money. I tried to tell alot of idiots on here this,but they never listen.
you lil n*ggas are learning
 03-20-2012, 12:08 AM         #44
Rhyme n Tekniq  OP
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miss this dude damn shame he didnt have a longer time on top


Last edited by Rhyme n Tekniq; 03-20-2012 at 12:12 AM..
 03-20-2012, 12:09 AM         #45
majormedicalboI  OP
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dream is the f*ggot a.ss n*gga makin all those pop records. fu*k that n*gga
 03-20-2012, 12:13 AM         #46
conscious thug  OP
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 coolbeans said:
its true tho
Musiq, Maxwell, D'Angelo, Erykah, Jill, Nneka, and others would probably disagree with you on that notion.
 6 years ago '09        #47
29 26 6 heat pts
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 ash1990 said:

R.Kelly Love Letter was great album

A R&B so far this year Melanie Fiona new album is solid
The last Jazmine Sullivan Album had some soul to it.
 6 years ago '07        #48
Playa 70 heat pts70
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I think we can still make great soul music but there is a lack of support across the board. Times have changed so much since the golden era of soul. If a few artists can get back to that feel, we can recreate amazing soul/jazz/blues records that break mainstream.

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 6 years ago '04        #49
Magnificent Phoenix|m 13 heat pts13
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 Heisenberg said:
gtfoh the only white chick many money off of soul records is Adele. Amy is dead and no body knows who the fu*k Duffy is. i bet 99 percent of boxden don't even know who the fu*k she is. Adele has a unique voice that is all. Soul music is dead. ALL them other bi*ches can't sing thats why. WHo the fu*k wants to hear rihanna over a soul-type record. all that yodeling. make ya ears bleed


I feel you. And besides, there are still Black artists singing soul music. Soul music in general does NOT sell well unfortunately.

Lest we forget about a few exceptions such as
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and
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 6 years ago '11        #50
Kingpin 313 104 heat pts104
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Beyonce and Rihanna can't do that
 03-20-2012, 12:46 AM         #51
Infamous B  OP
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aint this the guy who write all them pop a.ss songs?
 6 years ago '07        #52
240ka 49 heat pts49
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coming from a n*gga who cant sing himself.
 6 years ago '07        #53
fivetreyfour 8 heat pts
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 Magnificent Phoenix said:


I feel you. And besides, there are still Black artists singing soul music. Soul music in general does NOT sell well unfortunately.

Lest we forget about a few exceptions such as
[pic - click to view]

and
[pic - click to view]

And damn with the album sales...Never been one to a.ssociate good music with numbers. Gimme these two dudes and Anthony Hamilton all day..you can keep the other "RnB" garbage that's doing numbers. Matter of fact Marvin Gaye, The Isleys, Al Green, Teddy P and Lenny Williams have gotten more play in my ipod than any other rnb artist from the past 10 years...
 03-20-2012, 01:15 AM         #54
Purple Stallion  OP
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Aloe Blacc >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>
 6 years ago '07        #55
fivetreyfour 8 heat pts
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[video - click to view]


Memories of being a snotty nose shorty hopping in the back of the 'Nova on the way to school...so glad I got turned on to real music when I was young.
 03-20-2012, 01:37 AM         #56
SOCIALITE  OP
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Dream wrote classic songs stop hating. Might not like his music that he sings but the man can pen a record no doubt. And I think he's saying from aspect of he's going to these people with songs and they don't want them, the record labels don't want them, the fanbases don't want them, they want the pop joints. He speaking that real.
 6 years ago '10        #57
Trilluminati GA 433 heat pts433
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The Dream is accurate in that interview
I rarely listen to today's r&b, neo soul if my fav genre right now which is the real R&B


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The contamination and exploitation of R&B is due to record labels' propraganda for $$$$$
When it's a white woman leading in SOUL filled R&B thats a clear indication. Songs filled with soul has always been our forte but "our" singers are pushed to make catchy a.ss pop tart songs or hyper s3xualized songs about cheating for the masses. The ones thats true to the essence/love of R&B get mediocre promotion and frowned upon for being too "deep" and "old fashioned" Same thing with the rap industry. All bs aside when this was a special on tv, it lets you know r&b has gone to sh*t.





Last edited by Trilluminati GA; 03-20-2012 at 02:19 AM..
 6 years ago '10        #58
Trilluminati GA 433 heat pts433
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Where is the love in R&B music?


(CNN) -- When I was a teenager trying to figure out what the ladies liked, I would turn on the TV on Saturday afternoons to catch "The hippest trip in America."

I'd close my bedroom door to make sure my younger brother wasn't watching, and then I'd imitate the latest dance moves on "Soul Train," the African-American dance show. Standing in front of a mirror, I'd unleash a series of spasmodic dance moves before embarrassing myself too much to continue.

Soul Train's dancers never had that problem. As the show's festive theme song played, wiry dancers in tight double-knit pants shimmied across the dance floor. I loved the huge afros, the lapels that were so wide you could land a small plane on them, and the suave "Soul Train" host, Don Cornelius, who signed off each show by declaring, "We wish you love, peace ... and sooooulllll!"

But most of all I loved the music on "Soul Train," especially the slow jams. They had everything -- evocative lyrics, head-bopping grooves, soaring string arrangements and a whole lot of talk about love.

Yet when I listen to R&B today, I ask myself the same question Roberta Flack and Donny Hathaway posed in their classic 1972 duet: "Where is the Love?"

Listening to black music today is depressing. Songs on today's urban radio playlists are drained of romance, tenderness and seduction. And it's not just about the rise of hardcore hip-hop or rappers who denigrate women.

Black people gave the world Motown, Barry White and "Let's Get It On." But we don't make love songs anymore.

Why?

I asked some of the stars who created the popular R&B classics of the late 1960s, '70s and early '80s. Their answer: The music changed because blacks lost something essential -- something that all Americans, regardless of race, should regret.

"We had so much harmony"

Some of what we lost, they say, was an appreciation of love itself.

Earth Wind & Fire keyboardist and founding member Larry Dunn says a new generation of black R&B artists is more cynical because more come from broken homes and broken communities.

Soul singer Al Green flourished in an era of classic R&B love songs, but love songs are fading from black radio."How are you going to write about love when you don't know what it is?" asks Dunn, whose new album "N2 The Journey" contains a remake of one of Earth Wind & Fire's most famous ballads, "Reasons."

EWF, which gave us 1970s classics such as "After the Love is Gone," didn't create songs just to make hits, Dunn says. They also wanted to change lives. The group was known for songs like "Devotion" and "Shining Star" that celebrated love of self and God.

Those sentiments may sound hokey now, but Dunn says EWF could tell their songs had the intended effect. People played EWF love songs at their proms and weddings, and people still write letters of thanks to the group today.

"We had one guy who came up to us before a show and told us that we had helped him get off heroin," says Dunn, who is as relentlessly upbeat and warm as EWF's music.

Kenny Gamble brought the same ambition to his sound. Gamble is the co-founder of Philadelphia International Records, known as the Motown of the '70s. The record label patented "Philly Soul" -- tight, sophisticated arrangements with lush strings that formed the backdrop for classic love songs such as Billy Paul's "Me and Mrs. Jones" and Teddy Pendergrass' "Come Go With Me."

Yet Gamble's songs were also driven by black pride and self-help. With his co-producer and songwriter Leon Huff, Gamble created social conscience anthems like "Wake Up Everybody" by Harold Melvin & The Blue Notes and "Love Train" by The O'Jays.

Both the love songs and those with messages sprang from the same source, the belief that loving one another and your community was important, says Gamble, who still lives in Philadelphia renovating blighted neighborhoods through his nonprofit, Universal Companies.

"We had so much harmony, so much purpose in our music," he says. "Our whole purpose was the message is in the music, and that message was to love one another and to do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

Love songs flowered during that era also because black people were more optimistic, music critic Rashod Ollison wrote in an essay on Barry White, the rotund singer with what Ollison described as the "low-as-the-ocean-floor bass voice" who gave us love songs such as "Never Gonna' Give You Up."

How are you going to write about love when you don't know what it is?

Larry Dunn, founding member Earth Wind & FireWhite was caught up in the same social pathologies that trap some black youth today. He was a teenage father and gang member who spent time in jail, but "music saved him," Ollison wrote.

When I listen to White's songs today, I'm struck by his constant references to love. White was in love with love. He even named his band "The Love Unlimited Orchestra."

It seemed like an easier time to talk about love because things seemed to be getting better, Ollison wrote in his essay in The Virginian-Pilot newspaper.

"Black pop was ripe with music that echoed the aspirations of a people realizing some of the dreams of the civil rights movement," Ollison wrote. "Ghettos had become burnt-out shells after MLK was gunned down. Those who had the means to leave were now tucked in the 'burbs,' working in offices their mamas used to clean."

At the time, I was just a kid growing up in a gritty part of West Baltimore, which would later serve as the setting for the HBO series "The Wire." But even then I could see evidence of that hopefulness.

My older brother became the first family member to graduate from college. He took me with him when he bought his first suit, and later when he bought his first house. He gave me the first ride in his brand-new, pine-scented Pontiac Firebird.

Everybody seemed to be following the path that George Jefferson, the strutting black character in the 1970s sitcom, took in the opening montage of "The Jeffersons." We were "movin' on up" and finally getting "a piece of the pie."

Soul singer Teddy Pendergrass sang passionately about s3xual intimacy, but he still courted women in his songs.It was a time when, as a friend of mine said, "Being black was the bidness!" We celebrated our k!nky hair and dark skin and greeted each other as "brother" and "sister" without any sense of irony. Everybody seemed to have a copy of Jet or Ebony magazine on their coffee tables; a man would have been slapped if he called a black woman a bi*ch.

Then it all seemed to evaporate. Crack cocaine decimated black communities in the 1980s. The blue-collar jobs that gave many black families a foothold in the middle class began to disappear. Desegregation split the black community. Those with money and education moved to the suburbs. The ones left behind became more isolated.

Today, we have a black first family, but our own families are collapsing. A 2009 study from the Institute for American Values and the National Center on African American Marriages and Parenting at Hampton University in Virginia highlights the erosion.

The study found that while 70.3% of all black adults were married in 1970, that rate dropped to 39.6% by 2008. The study also showed that while 37.6% of black births were to unmarried parents in 1970, that figure soared to 71.6% by 2008.

Our music became as grim as those statistics. Singing about love now seems outdated.

Too narcissistic to love

Something else also happened: Black people became more narcissistic, and so did our love songs.

There's been a lot written about the narcissism of young Americans. They don't want to pay their dues. They are self-absorbed -- tweeting, texting, posting asides on Facebook -- and they are constantly immersed in their private worlds.

This self-absorption has seeped into contemporary black love songs.

One of R&B's most popular current hits is "Quickie" by Miguel, who declares, "I don't wanna be loved. I want a quickie."

We had so much harmony, so much purpose in our music.

Kenny Gamble, producer and songwriter of love songs such as "Me and Mrs. Jones"There's nothing wrong with singing about s3x. Few songs are as s3xually charged as Marvin Gaye's "Let's Get It On." And few singers can evoke bedroom heat like Al Green. But black men don't even bother to romance women in love songs anymore, says Kimberly Hines, editor-in-chief of SoulBounce, an online progressive urban music site.

Consider a recent Valentine's Day song by popular R&B artist Chris Brown called "No Bull S**t," in which he sings about inviting a woman over to his place at 3 in the morning because "you know I'm horny."

Then he sings to her to take off her clothes because "you already know what time it is" and orders her to "reach up in that dresser where them condoms is."

Compare Brown's lyrics to Pendergrass' "Come Go With Me," where he spends the song telling a woman, "You look so sweet ... You look like you oughta be with me ... We could sip a little wine, work things out."

"It was more about romance and seduction," Hines says of classic R&B love songs. "It was more of, 'Let me work my way into something with you,' instead of 'Let's do it.' Teddy [Pendergrass] had to convince a woman to 'Come on over to my place.'"

A recent study of Billboard hits confirms the notion that wooing a woman is disappearing from modern R&B.

Psychology professor Gordon Gallup Jr. and student Dawn Hobbs studied the subject matter of the 174 songs that made the Billboard Top 10 in 2009. They analyzed three musical genres among the top-selling songs: R&B, country and pop.

The researchers at the University at Albany in New York found that R&B contained the most references to s3x per song (an average of 16 s3x-related phrases per song). The top three s3xual themes in R&B songs were the singer's s3x appeal, the singer's wealth as it relates to finding a partner, and descriptions of s3x acts. A total of 19 song themes were examined.

The least-popular theme in R&B music was "courtship," while country music offered more songs about courtship than any other genre, the study said.

Music critic Ollison says men and women have objectified each other in modern R&B and whine "about not getting what they felt they deserved."

"It's a shame, because our desires don't change and we still want to be loved and open to someone, but the music we're sharing doesn't evoke it," Ollison says. "It's not about sharing. It's very narcissistic, sort of look at me."

"You don't need a band anymore"

That narcissism hasn't just seeped into the songwriting. It's infected the process of recording R&B love songs, as well.

During the classic soul era of the '60s, '70s and '80s, making records was a communal experience. It was a time of great bands. Think of the album covers from that era -- they were crowded with musicians.

The ability to play well -- and with others -- was expected. But how many contemporary R&B artists can actually sing, write or play instruments?

It was more about romance and seduction.

Kimberly Hines, editor-in-chief of SoulBounce, on classic R&B love songsDunn, of Earth Wind & Fire, says he was playing professional engagements every day of the week by the time he was 15. There was only one prerequisite for being in a band.

"You had to play your butt off," he says.

"I got into music for one reason, and all the guys I knew did for the same reason. We wanted to be the best we could be. We didn't know you got paid. We were too young to be tripping on women. We didn't know what the bling-bling was."

What made the classic R&B love songs great wasn't just the singing or the lyrics. It was the music. The wicked groove the drummer and bassist unleash on Barry White's "Never Gonna' Give You Up," Dunn's jazzy keyboard riffs on "Reasons," the bittersweet saxophone accompaniment on Billy Paul's "Me and Mrs. Jones" -- it all still sounds good.

That musical depth is missing from contemporary R&B love songs. Funding for music programs has been cut from many schools, so kids often don't grow up learning how to play instruments.

Any wannabe singer with a mediocre voice can now sit home in his or her underwear and eat Doritos while cutting a song on a computer and post it on the Internet the next day.

"You don't need a band to make music anymore," says Hines of SoulBounce, which compiled a list of the top 100 classic R&B love songs.

"A lot of producers just do everything by computer and knock that song out. Musicians have gotten checked out of the equation."
 03-20-2012, 02:14 AM         #59
StatisticZ  OP
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I been saying thos for years tho. Adele seems to be the only female vocalist out now that has soul. Bruno mars is the only male too bad he's a fu*kin f*ggot.
 6 years ago '10        #60
Trilluminati GA 433 heat pts433
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pt 2 of the interview

Why songs about love matter

So where do you go if you want to hear good contemporary R&B? Critics say to check out independent labels, neo-soul websites and Internet destinations like iTunes.

There you'll find singers like Jesse Boykins III, a 26-year-old with a supple, soulful voice that would've fit right in during the classic soul era.

Jesse Boykins III's musical heroes, and fashion influences, come from the classic soul era.Boykins and a collection of other artists are trying to start a "new romantic" movement in R&B to revive the genre. He says he still listens to artists like Stevie Wonder and Marvin Gaye for inspiration.

"They taught me that it's OK to be vulnerable as an artist," he says.

Boykins is still trying to get consistent radio play and uses the Internet and live performances to spread his music. His songs are also posted on iTunes and YouTube.

"Love music is not gone, it's just harder to find," he says.

Others say the same thing. Toby Walker, creator of the soul music site Soulwalking, says many contemporary R&B artists can produce great love songs by changing the way they make music.

"These performers would hugely benefit by leaving the stilettos, makeup, mobile phones and management behind them, putting on a T-shirt and jeans, and retiring for a couple of months someplace with some real musicians, real instruments, and a recording studio," Walker says.

Some people may say it's not important if we stop singing about love, but I'm not so sure.

Love music is not gone, it's just harder to find.

Jesse Boykins III, contemporary R&B singerBlack music isn't just for black folks; it's America's music. It's been that way for years. Black musicians who played the blues inspired rockers like Elvis Presley and the Rolling Stones; contemporary hip-hop artists have as many white fans as black listeners.

What happens when millions of young listeners -- regardless of color -- learn about intimacy from songs that reduce love to reaching "up in that dresser where them condoms is"?

And what happens to black people if we can't sing about love?

Whenever I see a black couple doting on their children in public, I want to throw a ticker-tape parade. I know so few blacks who are married. How do we build families and raise children if we can't even stay together?

Music was never just about entertainment in the black community. It was about hope. From the spirituals that slaves sang to survive brutal racism to civil rights anthems like "We Shall Overcome," love of God, self and one another was the message in much of our music.

It was a message that made a difference during a critical part of my life.

During my first year of college, I almost flunked out because I didn't believe anyone from my neighborhood could do well in school. I bought the notion that being smart was a "white thing."

But I remember driving over to my older brother's house one weekend to listen to Earth Wind & Fire. Donning my headphones, I listened to the band encourage me to "Keep My Head to the Sky" and tell me that I needed "Devotion" to "open all life's treasures."

I needed something more than songs, but they helped my self-confidence. I was proud to belong to a people who could create such exquisite, hopeful and exuberant music. Maybe, I thought, I could create something worthwhile myself one day.

I took that attitude into the classroom and it changed my life. I graduated with honors.

But I wonder where a new generation will go to hear those songs that talk about striving and love.

I wonder if they will even know enough about their past to ask.

Where is the love?
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