Stop the Linsanity? Knicks may change PG under new Knicks coach

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 6 years ago '04        #81
youngmic 407 heat pts407
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lol at fools in here happy cuz they were mad Lin got shine....lol fu*kin babies & cheerleaders
 6 years ago '10        #82
Smoke500 37 heat pts37
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 DRuNk 24/7 said:
I'm advocating starting Baron Davis right now over Lin, and I see how trash he's playing.

The reason why moving him into the starting lineup makes sense is due to personality. Even though the team loves Lin, there still is that added tension in the lineup. It has nothing to do with jealousy, I firmly believe Melo has been a good teammate and is encouraging the success of others. Melo's problem is that he doesn't want their successes to sacrifice the success of his own.

Davis is a veteran and shares the same mentality as a Melo and an Amar'e and a Chandler. He has the subliminal element of "I've been there before". There's not going to be any questioning of Davis' decisions with the ball, or any speculating "who's team is it" with Davis at the helm. Yes, he's still going to turn the ball over, but he's been around long enough to know how to run a half-court set...something Lin has had issues with.

I actually enjoy the roles D'Antoni was defining for our bench...and adding Lin to the mix will bring a new dynamic. Lin/JR/Fields/Novak/JJ is basically the same squad in which Linsanity was born. We could see him become the main option on offense again and not have to worry if he's taking too many shots away from Melo.

Baron / Lin
Shump / JR
Melo / Fields
Stat / Novak
Chandler / JJ

Then its up to Woodson to ride the hot hands and mix and match down the stretch.
I respect your opinion, especially the way you laid it out. But I simply don't agree

The intensity and drive that Lin shows combined with how bad B Diddy has been + Davis's ego(I've seen him force shot after hot and try to get fancy then turning the ball over) is the reason why I advocate for Lin over Davis. Or better yet, for another example we can look at the Lakers trading Derek Fisher. On paper Fisher looks better...5 championships, knowing the offense, experience, etc. But the benefit of a fresher pg with potential has the most upside

Not to mention, he's pulled us back to near .500 and has made some pretty clutch shots. Would we bench another guy not named Lin if he did all those things?

As for Melo, as a guy who was a huge Melo fan in Denver, I'm really disappointed in the guy. I agree that D'Antoni was a terrible coach. But abandoning your position on the court to do what YOU want because you wanna be the all star everyone gushes for? Instead of playing team ball on both ends of the floor? That has left me really disappointed and as bad as our ex-coach was, Melo did for himself and not for his team. Same with Amare

Lin has always been about team, and even if his role is reduced I highly doubt he'll do his own thing because he doesn't like the system



 babalou said:
Fam they beat 2 quality teams in that lil run they had. These cats will be lucky to grab the 8th seed and even if/when they do, you know Miami is going to sweep their a.sses out of the playoffs like Boston did last year. Stop acting like Lin is the solution when he's a fukkin turnover machine. Knicks fans just hyped to have something that resembles a bbal team again and they are not even a .500 team.

Damn shame that the team looks the way it does considering how it looks on paper.

I have one simple, straightforward question for you and those who say he played scrub teams:

Why do even good teams at times struggle against these teams? Better yet, why weren't other players putting up the same numbers against those scrubs? The Allstars maybe? How many players come out early in their career putting up those numbers against scrub teams?

The hilarious part about saying this is that many of you can't point to an average or below average player who caught all these "scrub" teams(and the Mavs and Lakers) off guard

Based on this, I have no choice but to believe that some of you don't want to think or believe he's good or could be good/great

What say you?


Last edited by Smoke500; 03-16-2012 at 05:38 PM..
 6 years ago '10        #83
Agentzer0oo0 209 heat pts209
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 Smoke500 said:
I respect your opinion, especially the way you laid it out. But I simply don't agree

The intensity and drive that Lin shows combined with how bad B Diddy has been + Davis's ego(I've seen him force shot after hot and try to get fancy then turning the ball over) is the reason why I advocate for Lin over Davis. Or better yet, for another example we can look at the Lakers trading Derek Fisher. On paper Fisher looks better...5 championships, knowing the offense, experience, etc. But the benefit of a fresher pg with potential has the most upside

Not to mention, he's pulled us back to near .500 and has made some pretty clutch shots. Would we bench another guy not named Lin if he did all those things?

As for Melo, as a guy who was a huge Melo fan in Denver, I'm really disappointed in the guy. I agree that D'Antoni was a terrible coach. But abandoning your position on the court to do what YOU want because you wanna be the all star everyone gushes for? Instead of playing team ball on both ends of the floor? That has left me really disappointed and as bad as our ex-coach was, Melo did for himself and not for his team. Same with Amare

Lin has always been about team, and even if his role is reduced I highly doubt he'll do his own thing because he doesn't like the system
I promised myself I wasn't gonna really explain this anymore but fu*k it

1. Baron is a better halfcourt player & plays better than Lin with Stat & Melo. I want this team to do well, I don't give a fu*k if our rookie player who had an amazing run & was the anchor of our offense gets upset over it or if any of the Knicks fans get upset over it. This is the most logical thing to do. Lin is still a rookie, he still doesn't know how to pass that great nor can he do bounce passes. He needs to learn how to think quicker when it comes to setting up his teammates.

2. For the last time what the hell was he supposed to do? He was relegated to a SPOT UP JUMP SHOOTER. There were no plays, there were no offensive adjustments, Pringles never once took the time out to make adjustments. Iso is his game anybody have a problem with it, tough titty. Dudes would be pissed if Kobe or Dirk played here. I do agree that he's not making a 100% commitment on defense. He can play defense, he knows what to do defensively but he just chooses not to & if you're paying a guy that much money & you want him to lead you to a chip that can't happen.





I have one simple, straightforward question for you and those who say he played scrub teams:

Why do even good teams at times struggle against these teams? Better yet, why weren't other players putting up the same numbers against those scrubs? The Allstars maybe? How many players come out early in their career putting up those numbers against scrub teams?

The hilarious part about saying this is that many of you can't point to an average or below average player who caught all these "scrub" teams(and the Mavs and Lakers) off guard

Based on this, I have no choice but to believe that some of you don't want to think or believe he's good or could be good/great

What say you?
He's a good scoring PG, the teams did not know about his play yet, he went up against subpar teams, he was the main scoring option, he plays in a system where the PG is the focal point.

 03-16-2012, 05:58 PM         #84
dlettern 
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The Knicks will not bench cuz of that Asian money. He really doesn't deserve that spot though.
 6 years ago '07        #85
BigAssTree 1 heat pts
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 babalou said:
Fam they beat 2 quality teams in that lil run they had. These cats will be lucky to grab the 8th seed and even if/when they do, you know Miami is going to sweep their a.sses out of the playoffs like Boston did last year. Stop acting like Lin is the solution when he's a fukkin turnover machine. Knicks fans just hyped to have something that resembles a bbal team again and they are not even a .500 team.

Damn shame that the team looks the way it does considering how it looks on paper.
"Fam" let me refer you to my previous post:
 BigAssTree said:
I hate when people bring this excuse up. Who were the teams they were beating BEFORE Lin? Let's see shall we? New Jersey, Boston, Sacramento, Washington, Charlotte, Detroit, and Philly. I should also mention that they even LOST to Charlotte once in their THREE meetings. Out of those 8 wins that they had 2 came from the Charlotte, the worst team in the NBA, and 2 from Detroit. So let's STOP acting like they were beating good teams BEFORE Lin came along.
So... Lin came into the starting lineup and Knicks win 8 games out of 10. Lin WASN'T in the starting lineup and the Knicks win 8 games out of 23. If that's not a solution in your eyes, then what is? And don't even bring up the squads they beat when Lin was in the lineup, because.... well I've already pointed that out.
 6 years ago '08        #86
EMER1TUS 11 heat pts11
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 Gattsau said:
Lin becoming the scape goat for Melos cancerous ways.
Nooo Dantoni was a dummy for not running iso's for Melo and Stat
 6 years ago '07        #87
JamcnPrettyboy 96 heat pts96
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Offense featuring isolation and post up plays?
 03-16-2012, 06:21 PM         #88
Thee504Legend 
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Baron Davis is washed up. This would be a fail for the Knicks.
 6 years ago '04        #89
Pichito25 2 heat pts
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 Mike Nitty said:
Nooo Dantoni was a dummy for not running iso's for Melo and Stat
this.....thank you
 6 years ago '04        #90
babalou 
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 BigAssTree said:
"Fam" let me refer you to my previous post:


So... Lin came into the starting lineup and Knicks win 8 games out of 10. Lin WASN'T in the starting lineup and the Knicks win 8 games out of 23. If that's not a solution in your eyes, then what is? And don't even bring up the squads they beat when Lin was in the lineup, because.... well I've already pointed that out.
When it's all said and done, this team is going nowhere and everyone knows it. This Lin sh*t just fell in their lap and only prolonged either D'Antoni getting fired or someone getting traded. But he couldnt run the point long term and there are very few team he could start on.

The "solution" is the one that they have no choice but to roll with now and that's with Baron at the point and Woodson hoping that they win enough games to grab the 8th seed and that the bottom of the East continues to be sh*tty.

The Lin situation was cool for the moment but what playoff team in the east were the Knicks going to beat in a series with him?
 6 years ago '10        #91
Agentzer0oo0 209 heat pts209
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 babalou said:
When it's all said and done, this team is going nowhere and everyone knows it. This Lin sh*t just fell in their lap and only prolonged either D'Antoni getting fired or someone getting traded. But he couldnt run the point long term and there are very few team he could start on.

The "solution" is the one that they have no choice but to roll with now and that's with Baron at the point and Woodson hoping that they win enough games to grab the 8th seed and that the bottom of the East continues to be sh*tty.

The Lin situation was cool for the moment but what playoff team in the east were the Knicks going to beat in a series with him?
I still wanna know this answer as well..
 6 years ago '06        #92
DRuNk 24/7 6 heat pts
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 Smoke500 said:
I respect your opinion, especially the way you laid it out. But I simply don't agree

The intensity and drive that Lin shows combined with how bad B Diddy has been + Davis's ego(I've seen him force shot after hot and try to get fancy then turning the ball over) is the reason why I advocate for Lin over Davis. Or better yet, for another example we can look at the Lakers trading Derek Fisher. On paper Fisher looks better...5 championships, knowing the offense, experience, etc. But the benefit of a fresher pg with potential has the most upside

Not to mention, he's pulled us back to near .500 and has made some pretty clutch shots. Would we bench another guy not named Lin if he did all those things?

As for Melo, as a guy who was a huge Melo fan in Denver, I'm really disappointed in the guy. I agree that D'Antoni was a terrible coach. But abandoning your position on the court to do what YOU want because you wanna be the all star everyone gushes for? Instead of playing team ball on both ends of the floor? That has left me really disappointed and as bad as our ex-coach was, Melo did for himself and not for his team. Same with Amare

Lin has always been about team, and even if his role is reduced I highly doubt he'll do his own thing because he doesn't like the system
I appreciate the discussion, doesn't happen often here in the BXSC.

As for your reasoning to start Lin...Just because Baron is flashy when he makes his turnovers, doesn't make those turnovers count any more than one of Lin's basic fundamental forces. A turnover is a turnover.

As for Melo abandoning coaches system...I can agree to your sentiments, believe me, I HATED the Gallo trade. Abandoning the word of the coach is just not right, no matter how you look at it. But this was the core of our problem. BOTH D'Antoni AND Melo don't know how to adjust their game...something had to give. Do you get rid of the Coach who's on the last year of his contract and hasn't really done much to show he's deserving of an extension? Or do you get rid of the "super"star player you traded practically your whole starting lineup for?

Many of us have been calling for D'Antoni to get the axe for a while now, some longer than others...some LOUDER than others. The fact is, I can't fault Melo for not being overly thrilled that D'Antoni couldn't find a way to adjust and get the ball to Melo in better spots. Do I wish he went about it a different way? Most definitely. But now that he's gone, lets see if Woodson CAN adjust. Part of that adjustment is going to require sacrifice. Unfortunately to some again, that sacrifice won't be from Carmelo, but his teammates...mainly Jeremy Lin.

And if that fails they'll bring in a new coach. And if he fails, we'll have a bigger timeline to reflect on...and maybe the next adjustment will be to move the PLAYER and revert back to the system.
 03-16-2012, 06:52 PM         #93
freakbucket 
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wow. well i wish him the best wherever he goes.
 6 years ago '04        #94
Menace718 1 heat pts
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I'm good with whatever is better for the team. In my opinion though, it seems more factual that the Knicks overall do better with Lin than Baron at the point.
 6 years ago '06        #95
DRuNk 24/7 6 heat pts
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 Menace718 said:
I'm good with whatever is better for the team. In my opinion though, it seems more factual that the Knicks overall do better with Lin than Baron at the point.
Do the Thunder play better with James Harden rather than Thabo or Daequan Cook at the 2?
 6 years ago '09        #96
bigscore 1632 heat pts1632
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Melo will have no excuse now....

Let's see what happens....


 6 years ago '10        #97
Smoke500 37 heat pts37
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 Agentzer0oo0 said:
I promised myself I wasn't gonna really explain this anymore but fu*k it

1. Baron is a better halfcourt player & plays better than Lin with Stat & Melo. I want this team to do well, I don't give a fu*k if our rookie player who had an amazing run & was the anchor of our offense gets upset over it or if any of the Knicks fans get upset over it. This is the most logical thing to do. Lin is still a rookie, he still doesn't know how to pass that great nor can he do bounce passes. He needs to learn how to think quicker when it comes to setting up his teammates.

2. For the last time what the hell was he supposed to do? He was relegated to a SPOT UP JUMP SHOOTER. There were no plays, there were no offensive adjustments, Pringles never once took the time out to make adjustments. Iso is his game anybody have a problem with it, tough titty. Dudes would be pissed if Kobe or Dirk played here. I do agree that he's not making a 100% commitment on defense. He can play defense, he knows what to do defensively but he just chooses not to & if you're paying a guy that much money & you want him to lead you to a chip that can't happen.







He's a good scoring PG, the teams did not know about his play yet, he went up against subpar teams, he was the main scoring option, he plays in a system where the PG is the focal point.

And yet you're not making sense. Your statements are based on perception

What has Davis contributed on the court? That's the bottom line. You can explain 1000 more times if you like....but no matter how you spin it if he's not contributing or energizing the team....your statements make little sense

Second...to sit here and make a damn excuse for Anthony not putting or playing his role as a TEAM player is bullsh*t. It's one thing for the system to fail, it's quite another for you to fu*k up the system and then take no responsibility or in your case...take responsiblity away from him

I know what Melo's strengths are. Sadly....he wasn't willing to make the sacrifice as an unselfish guy. That in and of itself is disgusting no matter how you spin it

As for your last comment...the fact of the matter is there aren't other players in the league doing that to those teams besides superstars....whether they're new or veterans. Sorry friend but with those facts clearly laid out....you sound very biased

In your post you've :

1) Explained away Lin's success as if others have done the same
2) Given Melo an excuse for not being a team player
 6 years ago '10        #98
Smoke500 37 heat pts37
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 DRuNk 24/7 said:
I appreciate the discussion, doesn't happen often here in the BXSC.

As for your reasoning to start Lin...Just because Baron is flashy when he makes his turnovers, doesn't make those turnovers count any more than one of Lin's basic fundamental forces. A turnover is a turnover.

As for Melo abandoning coaches system...I can agree to your sentiments, believe me, I HATED the Gallo trade. Abandoning the word of the coach is just not right, no matter how you look at it. But this was the core of our problem. BOTH D'Antoni AND Melo don't know how to adjust their game...something had to give. Do you get rid of the Coach who's on the last year of his contract and hasn't really done much to show he's deserving of an extension? Or do you get rid of the "super"star player you traded practically your whole starting lineup for?

Many of us have been calling for D'Antoni to get the axe for a while now, some longer than others...some LOUDER than others. The fact is, I can't fault Melo for not being overly thrilled that D'Antoni couldn't find a way to adjust and get the ball to Melo in better spots. Do I wish he went about it a different way? Most definitely. But now that he's gone, lets see if Woodson CAN adjust. Part of that adjustment is going to require sacrifice. Unfortunately to some again, that sacrifice won't be from Carmelo, but his teammates...mainly Jeremy Lin.

And if that fails they'll bring in a new coach. And if he fails, we'll have a bigger timeline to reflect on...and maybe the next adjustment will be to move the PLAYER and revert back to the system.
I disagree with the kind of turnover. One is a result of selfish play or ego-driven ball play...which isn't team ball and is dangerous(especially for a point guard)

The other is a mistake that players may make but doesn't affect the chemistry or psyche of the team

If we don't agree on that we'll just have to agree to disagree

I want Melo here, I want him to succeed. I'm simply expressing objective criticism. As much as I hate Pringles...Melo did nothing to make it better and show effort. It makes you wonder how he'll react when the team isn't doing well


Hope that makes sense. Fact is Melo wasn't following the offense which...in turn actually screwed up the offense more than it might have already been screwed up. Makes you wonder how many close games we lost were a direct result of Melo being unwilling to be an unselfish team guy
 6 years ago '04        #99
Pichito25 2 heat pts
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Davis playing good so far under new coach...

Melo and Lin playing good so far under new coach...

maybe it could have been the coach...
 6 years ago '10        #100
Smoke500 37 heat pts37
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 Agentzer0oo0 said:
I still wanna know this answer as well..
You could honestly say the same for Melo

Lin proved that the system can work. Yea he was a new player but the ball movement and chemistry showed that with the right pieces it could have worked

Fact is we lost all of those games mostly due to defense and effort
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