UFC 143: Diaz vs Condit Official Discussion Thread

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 6 years ago '08        #801
AnyGiven 39 heat pts39
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As much as I thought Nick won he didn't switch his style up at all till later. Condit was scoring points off those kicks and didn't get baited by Diaz's taunts (also some sweet counters by Condit). Never leave it in the hands of the judges.
 6 years ago '05        #802
Cee4our 1 heat pts
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 I'm The Dan said:
If you check the f!ght metric, Condit outlands Nick by about 50ish total strikes throughout the f!ght. That's including the ineffective leg kicks. Most of the strikes that Nick landed were effective strikes because he was only landing when he got close enough to hit him with body shots and some hits to the head. He barely threw any worthless leg kicks.

It's very simple. Nick won the first two rounds by using his aggressiveness and effective striking. I don't understand how anyone can argue this. The 3rd and 4th rounds Condit won by running around and leg kicking. Nick was starting to get frustrated during this time, so he wasn't chasing as much as he should have. Condit landed a few combos here that scored, but didn't do very much damage. The 5th round was fairly even (maybe even leaning towards Condit) until Nick took him down with 1:30 left and got his back. He went for multiple submissions. I don't see how anyone can give this round to Condit.

In my opinion, I think Nick won the f!ght 48-47 based solely on his Agressiveness, Octagon Control and Grappling. Condit out struck him, but if you take out the meaningless leg kicks (Nick was still chasing Condit after 5 rounds of the most landed leg kicks... has to say something, right?) then Nick actually out struck Condit -- and that's while chasing him down for 5 rounds.

I suggest you watch the f!ght again. Turn down the volume (Rogan was all over Condit's d!ck for the f!ght) and make your own observations. See if they change at all. You might surprise yourself. Just remember while watching to gauge how effective the leg kicks are and how aggressive Nick was during the whole f!ght.
it seems like u are saying 100% of nicks strikes were "effective" but 0% of condits kicks were "effective". if thats the case we will never see eye to eye and i respect ur opinion but i disagree. i still thought it was an entertaining f!ght where the more cerebral f!ghter clearly outstruck his opponent.
 6 years ago '05        #803
I'm The Dan 7 heat pts
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 Cee4our said:
it seems like u are saying 100% of nicks strikes were "effective" but 0% of condits kicks were "effective". if thats the case we will never see eye to eye and i respect ur opinion but i disagree. i still thought it was an entertaining f!ght where the more cerebral f!ghter clearly outstruck his opponent.
No, I am not saying that 100% of Nick's strikes were effective. He thrives more in accumulated punishment. My point is people are making a big deal out of Condit's striking, but completely over looking the fact that most were ineffective leg kicks. Honestly, just think about it for a second. Condit landed the most leg kicks in the history of the UFC. Condit landed the most leg kicks int he history of the UFC; however, Nick was able to still chase Condit down after a 5 round f!ght. Ask yourself: How effective were those kicks?

Basically, it's like this for me. The reason people said Condit won that f!ght was because he "outsmarted" Nick. They said he beat Nick in the striking department. The thing is he did land more strikes, but when you consider that MOST of his strikes were ineffective leg kicks and Nick won every other aspect of the f!ght (Aggressiveness, Octagon Control and Grappling) and the striking wasn't even as one sided as people are saying, I think it's clear that Nick won.
 6 years ago '06        #804
Yung Dilla 1478 heat pts1478
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Nick outstruck condit with his hands landed more condit with the kicks landing more!!
 02-05-2012, 03:44 PM         #805
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I agree with Dan here. If he just landed that many leg kicks, but Nick was still the one pushing the pace then how effective were they? Need to give more points for being the one pushing the f!ght or else this sport is going to turn into boxing. Its bad enough how much they reward wrestlers for take downs if they start giving people the win for running then sh*ts going to get super boring.
 6 years ago '05        #806
Cee4our 1 heat pts
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 I'm The Dan said:
No, I am not saying that 100% of Nick's strikes were effective. He thrives more in accumulated punishment. My point is people are making a big deal out of Condit's striking, but completely over looking the fact that most were ineffective leg kicks. Honestly, just think about it for a second. Condit landed the most leg kicks in the history of the UFC. Condit landed the most leg kicks int he history of the UFC; however, Nick was able to still chase Condit down after a 5 round f!ght. Ask yourself: How effective were those kicks?
even if that logic were completely sound, rounds arent scored collectively at the end of the f!ght. basically you expect judges to score the first 2 rounds for diaz because they traveled forward in time to the 5th round and saw that diaz wasnt hobbled by condit's leg kicks.
 6 years ago '05        #807
I'm The Dan 7 heat pts
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 Cee4our said:
even if that logic were completely sound, rounds arent scored collectively at the end of the f!ght. basically you expect judges to score the first 2 rounds for diaz because they traveled forward in time to the 5th round and saw that diaz wasnt hobbled by condit's leg kicks.
No. I expect the judges to do what they're getting paid for and be able to understand how effective the kick is when it's thrown. I lump them all together so it's easier to understand.

While watching a f!ght, can you tell the difference between a Carlos Condit leg kick and a Jose Aldo leg kick? I guarantee whomever Aldo is f!ghting, isn't going to let him throw leg kicks unchecked over and over. I also guarantee that if Aldo landed the most leg kicks in a f!ght ever, that the other f!ghter wouldn't walk out of the Octagon. I expect the judges to know the difference.
 6 years ago '05        #808
Cee4our 1 heat pts
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 I'm The Dan said:
No. I expect the judges to do what they're getting paid for and be able to understand how effective the kick is when it's thrown. I lump them all together so it's easier to understand.

While watching a f!ght, can you tell the difference between a Carlos Condit leg kick and a Jose Aldo leg kick? I guarantee whomever Aldo is f!ghting, isn't going to let him throw leg kicks unchecked over and over. I also guarantee that if Aldo landed the most leg kicks in a f!ght ever, that the other f!ghter wouldn't walk out of the Octagon. I expect the judges to know the difference.
well maybe u should write a letter to NSAC and tell them to invest in either A.) impact pads that every f!ghter is required to wear so they can measure each strike or B.) time machines.
 6 years ago '07        #809
Optimus Crime 5 heat pts
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 I'm The Dan said:
If you check the f!ght metric, Condit outlands Nick by about 50ish total strikes throughout the f!ght. That's including the ineffective leg kicks. Most of the strikes that Nick landed were effective strikes because he was only landing when he got close enough to hit him with body shots and some hits to the head. He barely threw any worthless leg kicks.

It's very simple. Nick won the first two rounds by using his aggressiveness and effective striking. I don't understand how anyone can argue this. The 3rd and 4th rounds Condit won by running around and leg kicking. Nick was starting to get frustrated during this time, so he wasn't chasing as much as he should have. Condit landed a few combos here that scored, but didn't do very much damage. The 5th round was fairly even (maybe even leaning towards Condit) until Nick took him down with 1:30 left and got his back. He went for multiple submissions. I don't see how anyone can give this round to Condit.

In my opinion, I think Nick won the f!ght 48-47 based solely on his Agressiveness, Octagon Control and Grappling. Condit out struck him, but if you take out the meaningless leg kicks (Nick was still chasing Condit after 5 rounds of the most landed leg kicks... has to say something, right?) then Nick actually out struck Condit -- and that's while chasing him down for 5 rounds.

I suggest you watch the f!ght again. Turn down the volume (Rogan was all over Condit's d!ck for the f!ght) and make your own observations. See if they change at all. You might surprise yourself. Just remember while watching to gauge how effective the leg kicks are and how aggressive Nick was during the whole f!ght.
Nick had ZERO octagon control. If he had Octagon Control... Condit would have been in trouble. Diaz would have cornered and contained Condit. I don't see how you can have octagon control over an opponent that is visibly frustrated because you're dictating the f!ght.

I watched the f!ght on Mute because my brother was studying for a test and I thought it was 2-2 with a VERY close round, and probably could have gone either way. I was leaning toward Condit when the decisions was about to roll out

You say the leg kicks weren't effective... But as I was watching it I saw Nick Diaz switch his stance a few times and grow visibly frustrated. If I'm a judge I see that as being effective. (Even if it wasn't in actuality.) In addition to that I didn't see Nick's striking as THAT effective. In fact in the second round (At least I think it was the second) I saw Nick taunting more than striking. Nick's face was pretty marked up after the f!ght...And that doesn't typically happen when a guy is on his bicycle

Nick is a tough dude. Condit has fought 28 f!ghts and finished 26 of them. I don't fault him for not KOing Nick Diaz, because it's notoriously difficult to do


 AnyGiven said:
As much as I thought Nick won he didn't switch his style up at all till later. Condit was scoring points off those kicks and didn't get baited by Diaz's taunts (also some sweet counters by Condit). Never leave it in the hands of the judges.
Exactly... I feel like Nick Diaz knew what he had to do, but didn't do it. It's crazy because people are trying to give Nick Diaz the f!ght, and at the same time talk down on Rampage for f!ghting the exact same type of f!ght. Nick Diaz should have fought the entire f!ght like he fought the end of round 5. He realized he was getting worked, cut off the octagon, got Condit down, took his back and did some submission work. Should have been doing it all damn f!ght.


Last edited by Optimus Crime; 02-05-2012 at 04:27 PM..
 6 years ago '05        #810
I'm The Dan 7 heat pts
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 Rated_R_CEO said:
I watched the f!ght w/o commentary as I do on EVERY main event because Joe Rogan's bias ruins the experience. With that being said I scored round 1 a draw, round 2 for Dias, round 3 & 4 for Condit, and round 5 was won by Diaz on the strength of the take down and back control otherwise he was losing that first half of the round.... that being said it was 49-48 for Condit... I had money on Diaz winning so I hold no bias towards either f!ghter but "pushing forward" and not actually doing a whole lot of anything doesn't win f!ghts with ME scoring, now I'm not going to get on my high horse here and say anyone who didn't agree with me are idiots and have no business scoring f!ghts, but I personally didn't think it was much of a controversy. I will however say that Nick Diaz, for as talented of a f!ghter he is, is a cry baby...there's been much more controversial and down right screw jobs on guys before and you never hear anyone bi*ch as much as Diaz does after a loss... it's damn right embarrassing as a fan to see...
Wouldn't the f!ght be a draw? If the 1st was a draw, Diaz got 2nd, Condit got 3 and 4, and Diaz got the 5th... That's a draw, right? Not 49-48 for Condit.

Nick had ZERO octagon control. If he had Octagon Control... Condit would have been in trouble. Diaz would have cornered and contained Condit. I don't see how you can have octagon control over an opponent that is visibly frustrated because you're dictating the f!ght.

I watched the f!ght on Mute because my brother was studying for a test and I thought it was 2-2 with a VERY close round, and probably could have gone either way. I was leaning toward Condit when the decisions was about to roll out

You say the leg kicks weren't effective... But as I was watching it I saw Nick Diaz switch his stance a few times and grow visibly frustrated. If I'm a judge I see that as being effective. (Even if it wasn't in actuality.) In addition to that I didn't see Nick's striking as THAT effective. In fact in the second round (At least I think it was the second) I saw Nick taunting more than striking. Nick's face was pretty marked up after the f!ght...And that doesn't typically happen when a guy is on his bicycle

Nick is a tough dude. Condit has fought 28 f!ghts and finished 26 of them. I don't fault him for not KOing Nick Diaz, because it's notoriously difficult to do
- As for Octagon Control: I don't see it as having control if you just run around the cage. To me, aggression and control are one in the same. If you are walking someone down, then you have control. If that's not true, then Stefan Struve could be the best f!ghter on the planet if he decided he was just going to circle and leg kick the whole time. The problem with this is, before this f!ght, it was generally looked down upon and the judges didn't score it for the person "on his bicycle"

- You had the f!ght 2-2 going into the 5th round? If so, how can you possibly give the round to Condit? It was relatively close throughout (mainly leaning towards Condit), but when Nick took Condit down with 1:30 left, and went for multiple submissions, that pushes Nick over the top in that round... right?

- I agree with the appearance of switching styles showing that the leg kicks may have hurt. I'm not saying they didn't hurt. Using a word like "effective" is relative; those kicks would probably cripple me, but Nick is trained to take them. My point is the judges should be able to tell the difference. If he's doing these leg kicks and Nick isn't limping or at least stop chasing Condit, then they're not being as effective as people are saying.

Also, the funny thing about what you said is during the second round Nick was taunting more than striking: This was the only round that Nick outstruck Condit with total strikes (leg kicks included).

- No doubt Nick is a tough dude. Condit is a tough guy as well. As I said before, I was a huge fan of Condit. I loved his style, but for this f!ght he changed it up COMPLETELY and turned into a pus*y. I'm not saying he should stand there and trade with Nick (he would most likely lose) but instead of leg kicking and retreating, throw a few combos then back up. He threw one effective combo during that whole f!ght. Condit is a much better f!ghter than he showed last night and it's shame because if he was as aggressive as he normally is, he might have still won and came out looking amazing. Instead, during his next f!ght he has to come out aggressive as he was before the Diaz f!ght, or he runs the risk of falling into the same level of a Fitch... someone who wins, but nobody wants to watch.
 6 years ago '06        #811
TreZ 3 heat pts
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Why are people bi*ching from condit running away to get away from Diaz? Condit didnt want to be pinned up on the cage because that's how Diaz beats his opponents and does the most damage. To me I think that was a smart move he was controlling the octagon.
 6 years ago '05        #812
Cee4our 1 heat pts
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 I'm The Dan said:
- As for Octagon Control: I don't see it as having control if you just run around the cage. To me, aggression and control are one in the same. If you are walking someone down, then you have control. If that's not true, then Stefan Struve could be the best f!ghter on the planet if he decided he was just going to circle and leg kick the whole time. The problem with this is, before this f!ght, it was generally looked down upon and the judges didn't score it for the person "on his bicycle"
youre not giving condit nearly enough credit. if its so easy to throw and circle than everyone would do it. hell struve was backing up and trying to circle when roy knocked his fu*king face off. bisping was trying to circle outta trouble when hendo caught him. its nick's responsibility to stop condit from landing and getting out of danger.
 6 years ago '05        #813
I'm The Dan 7 heat pts
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 TreZ said:
Why are people bi*ching from condit running away to get away from Diaz? Condit didnt want to be pinned up on the cage because that's how Diaz beats his opponents and does the most damage. To me I think that was a smart move he was controlling the octagon.
This is the other thing that annoys me about the f!ght. When we're saying he was running, we're not just saying how he would run back to the center of the Octagon when cornered against the cage -- That's fine and I'd expect him to do that.

What I am talking about is how he would throw a leg kick and back up. He rarely engaged into a combo other than a leg kick + jab combination. He threw one effective combo, and it was two leg kicks followed by a high kick.

For the majority of the f!ght, he was just leg kicking and retreating.

youre not giving condit nearly enough credit. if its so easy to throw and circle than everyone would do it. hell struve was backing up and trying to circle when roy knocked his fu*king face off. bisping was trying to circle outta trouble when hendo caught him. its nick's responsibility to stop condit from landing and getting out of danger.
Fair enough. I probably am not giving him enough credit; however, I think you're giving him too much credit for it.
 6 years ago '05        #814
Cee4our 1 heat pts
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[pic - click to view]



walking sumone down, throwin 0 punches, and getting punched in the face...score it for diaz cuz carlos was on his bike!
 6 years ago '12        #815
KUKOC 4 heat pts
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mmatko.com...has every thing u ever need
 6 years ago '05        #816
I'm The Dan 7 heat pts
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 Cee4our said:

[pic - click to view]



walking sumone down, throwin 0 punches, and getting punched in the face...score it for diaz cuz carlos was on his bike!
See... first, you were acting like a dip sh*t. Then you started to make some sense and it was good to have a conversation about the f!ght. Now, you're back to acting like a dip sh*t.

You post a gif of Diaz walking him down and Condit throwing a hook before running away again? That's your proof? Really?
 6 years ago '05        #817
Cee4our 1 heat pts
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 I'm The Dan said:
See... first, you were acting like a dip sh*t. Then you started to make some sense and it was good to have a conversation about the f!ght. Now, you're back to acting like a dip sh*t.

You post a gif of Diaz walking him down and Condit throwing a hook before running away again? That's your proof? Really?
im not gonna lie, i just added it to be a d!ck. nonetheless diaz walked him down and threw 0 strikes many times. cant win a f!ght without throwin strikes.
 6 years ago '05        #818
I'm The Dan 7 heat pts
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 Cee4our said:
im not gonna lie, i just added it to be a d!ck. nonetheless diaz walked him down and threw 0 strikes many times. cant win a f!ght without throwin strikes.
Diaz landed about 50ish strikes less than Condit. That's including leg kicks and having to chase Condit down the whole f!ght.

We're not going to change each others minds. I honestly think that Dana will talk Diaz into coming back and we'll get a rematch. GSP isn't going to be ready until November. Set the rematch of Diaz and Condit for June, then the winner can get GSP in November.
 6 years ago '05        #819
Y.G. 27 heat pts27
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 Cee4our said:
so your logic is that if nick limps, score it for condit. had nick peppered condits body with punches and condit showed no signs of pain from that, still score it for condit. im not sure u understand how scoring works....
You've already been ethered several times since this post, but I'll reply anyhow.

1. It takes much more effort to land several punches in combination than it does to land a single baby leg kick while standing on the outside.

2. If someone lands several combinations of punches on your face all throughout a 5 round f!ght, you will show damage. Obviously, if someone lands baby kicks to your leg all throughout a 5 round f!ght, chances are they'll have no effect as Diaz proved this.
 6 years ago '05        #820
Cee4our 1 heat pts
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 Y.G. said:
You've already been ethered several times since this post, but I'll reply anyhow.

1. It takes much more effort to land several punches in combination than it does to land a single baby leg kick while standing on the outside.

2. If someone lands several combinations of punches on your face all throughout a 5 round f!ght, you will show damage. Obviously, if someone lands baby kicks to your leg all throughout a 5 round f!ght, chances are they'll have no effect as Diaz proved this.
ehhhhhh......ok
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