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 01-15-2012, 04:20 PM         #101
Kuchiki_Byakuya 
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That's what Vanessa said.
 6 years ago '11        #102
DCballer40 
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 atl12o13 said:
Im pretty sure your just nitpicking the hell out of my comment man...Im saing these dudes had multiple all star games under their belt and could win you a game almost single handed at any time during the period we are discussing them in.Top 5 ever at the time?NO....could they dominate a game....yes.Easily.Im saying that you have to have a post offensive option of at least thier caliber to win,not that they were all HOF'ers.
I understand where you are coming from now but Sheed has never been a dominant player. He is by FAR the most dissappointing player in our era. He had the ability to be a 25-10 a night player and chose to defer to lesser teammates. He chose to float to the 3 point line when he could take over on the low block. In all honesty Gasol > Sheed and the numbers prove it and its NOT CLOSE. Why Sheed gets a pass for underachieving is beyond me. His numbers show it, and his play at times showed it. He was a semi great defender however and he intimidated the sh*t out of players. Gasol for all his skill has NEVER been a dominant player and never will be because he lacks toughness and grit. He doesnt have the strength to hold position on the low block and he has now begun to float further from the basket in typical Euro Big fashion.

KG and Shaq are the only players that could dominate in their prime. I still remember those years KG would bring the ball up court pass it to the PG get to his spot and go to work. He really was robbed of greatness during his prime years in Minnesota. He was better then Duncan and Webber during those years in the early to mid 2000s....but he didnt have the team to win.
 01-15-2012, 04:26 PM         #103
atl12o13 
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 Cambury said:
having a good game and being dominate are two different things. How many dominant players are there in the NBA now? How man players are capable of having good game? All of those players were capable of having good games but they did not dominate sh*t.

Dominant players now?good question......in the post...

-D12....if everyone was honest with themselves,that team wouldnt win more than 20-25 games without him.

-Dirk but i dont know if you would even really call him a post,but after his playoffs last year ima give him benefit of doubt.

-Aldridge is getting close but prolly a year away.

I am sure im missing someone but i cant think of who off top of my head.I see this year and prolly next year or two as the transitional period to the next generation.It started last year i think.
 01-15-2012, 04:31 PM         #104
atl12o13 
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 DCballer40 said:
I understand where you are coming from now but Sheed has never been a dominant player. He is by FAR the most dissappointing player in our era. He had the ability to be a 25-10 a night player and chose to defer to lesser teammates. He chose to float to the 3 point line when he could take over on the low block. In all honesty Gasol > Sheed and the numbers prove it and its NOT CLOSE. Why Sheed gets a pass for underachieving is beyond me. His numbers show it, and his play at times showed it. He was a semi great defender however and he intimidated the sh*t out of players. Gasol for all his skill has NEVER been a dominant player and never will be because he lacks toughness and grit. He doesnt have the strength to hold position on the low block and he has now begun to float further from the basket in typical Euro Big fashion.

KG and Shaq are the only players that could dominate in their prime. I still remember those years KG would bring the ball up court pass it to the PG get to his spot and go to work. He really was robbed of greatness during his prime years in Minnesota. He was better then Duncan and Webber during those years in the early to mid 2000s....but he didnt have the team to win.
Yea,the numbers are definitely clear in Gasols favor.He avg. 18 n 10 and 19 and 11 for those two championship seasons.That being said,If i had to pick one of the two guys to play one series in their prime id take Sheed,hes a at times dominant defensively and I think was part of why Ben Wallace looked so good then fell off so quick.Id rather have Sheed taking a big shot too,but thats really just more i think hes tougher mentally and physically.I guess he gets a pass b/c noone ever really thought that Detroit team would win and because his all around game somewhat made up for his lack of number offensively.I just saw an articla esaying hes thinking about playing this year actually lol.
 6 years ago '05        #105
AirForce318 
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 DCballer40 said:
So let me get this straight? So Kobe should pull a Lebron and pass the ball at every chance let Gasol shoot 10-13, 15 ft stand still jump shots and and let Bynum get 20 shots (2 of which wont even make it to the rim and another 3-5 will be auto turnovers). When he does this they will lose by 15-20 to these good teams Boxden speaks of. There will be hundreds of threads talking about how Kobe lost and he's no MJ because MJ would not lose by 20. When he scores 40 and shoots 50% doing it IN A WIN....its well he took 31 shots so HE SHOULD score 40.
If ANY SCORER TAKES 30+ shots, they better have 40 points or more.... There is no reason for you to shoot the ball that many times in a team game... No reason at all... Regardless if it's Kobe, Lebron, Durant, Melo... That sh*t is just selfish...



Also, to the other poster; the word is DOMINANT not dominate in the context in which it is used... Damn...


Last edited by AirForce318; 01-15-2012 at 04:36 PM..
 6 years ago '07        #106
Cambury 39 heat pts39
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 atl12o13 said:
Dominant players now?good question......in the post...

-D12....if everyone was honest with themselves,that team wouldnt win more than 20-25 games without him.

-Dirk but i dont know if you would even really call him a post,but after his playoffs last year ima give him benefit of doubt.

-Aldridge is getting close but prolly a year away.

I am sure im missing someone but i cant think of who off top of my head.I see this year and prolly next year or two as the transitional period to the next generation.It started last year i think.
Aldridge isn't dominant yet, he is more ISO than post. Dwight Howard cannot pass so it's impossible to dominate a game when you can't pass out of doubles. Dirk is dominant. I think the first two are effective but dominating is another level.
 6 years ago '05        #107
AirForce318 
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 DCballer40 said:
- You brought up Rodman not being a dominant scoring big man...i countered by saying he didnt need to be a dominant scoring big.

- You nor I ever spoke on the first 3 peat. That is the only batch of rings MJ has that impresses me anyway. He beat ALL TIME GREAT teams during that run with only Pip and role players. That 2nd 3peat the Bulls were loaded

- Jordan has NEVER EVER WON A PLAYOFF SERIES WITHOUT Scottie Pippen a top 50 HOF player

- Oh and because Jordan never made it out of the 1st round before Scottie came around you said he never lost a best of 7 series. Yeh thats right because he was too busy GETTING SWEPT 2 straight years in the first round

FACT: Jordan never won a ring without a HOF player
FACT: Kobe won 2 RINGS being the ONLY HOF player

FACT: Kobe has been swept 3 times in the playoffs
FACT: Jordan has been swept 2 times in the playoffs

FACT: Kobe has won 11 playoff series and took the Lakers to 3 straight finals without another HOF player
FACT: Jordan has won ZERO playoff series without a HOF player so how could he reach the finals anyway
FACT: Pippen has won ONE playoff series without a HOF and took the Bulls to the EC Semis Game 7 without Jordan
I'm pretty sure that 94 Bulls team with Pip and no MJ only had 1 HOF player and he had to win two series to get the the ECF right? so this one is slightly off... And Gasol will get into the HOF because he has 2 rings and decent numbers so idk about these Kobe "facts" about the HOF player...

At the end of the day Kobe doesn't have the individual accolades or the stats to be better than MJ...
 6 years ago '07        #108
Cambury 39 heat pts39
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 atl12o13 said:
Yea,the numbers are definitely clear in Gasols favor.He avg. 18 n 10 and 19 and 11 for those two championship seasons.That being said,If i had to pick one of the two guys to play one series in their prime id take Sheed,hes a at times dominant defensively and I think was part of why Ben Wallace looked so good then fell off so quick.Id rather have Sheed taking a big shot too,but thats really just more i think hes tougher mentally and physically.I guess he gets a pass b/c noone ever really thought that Detroit team would win and because his all around game somewhat made up for his lack of number offensively.I just saw an articla esaying hes thinking about playing this year actually lol.
no been Wallace was the reason Sheed looked so good defensively. When Ben left see what happened, before Sheed Ben was a spot...


Yo honest question when did you start watching basketball? I responded then realized someone should know this
 01-15-2012, 04:50 PM         #109
atl12o13 
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Haha i agree with your argument as far as what happened in Detroit when they left,but Ben came to Chicago and then went back to Detroit and maybe he just got old but dude wasnt nearly as effective.Ive been watcing ball a long time.From about 2005-2009 i didnt see much other than playoffs though because i was spent a year in Sicily,a year in Japan,some time in random other places and even like 4 months in Africa.
 6 years ago '12        #110
purple waldo 2 heat pts
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I don't think he that hurt at all. He full of sh*t. Pretty boy
 6 years ago '06        #111
raw51188 3 heat pts
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I swear dudes don't watch games, they just look to whatever they can criticize kobe after a loss. If you watch the games, you'll notice that the Lakers team as constituted doesn't have enough scoring on the roster. Gasol and Bynum aren't shooting well lately, BELOW 50%, and our coaching on offense sucks, and the bench sucks. If kobe doesn't score, they don't win, its that simple. The Lakers desperately need a pg the get everyone the ball in positions to score. Kobe can't play facilitator because he needs to score. Between Bynum, gasol, and kobe, theyre avgg 65 ppg...that's not enough when you have no bench and NO other scoring threat, let alone one that can get his own shot. Gasol is catching the ball 20ft from the basket, and expected to do something with it. Bynum too. That's not kobe fault. It's the offense we run, and the fact that we have no point guard.
 01-15-2012, 04:57 PM         #112
atl12o13 
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 Cambury said:
Aldridge isn't dominant yet, he is more ISO than post. Dwight Howard cannot pass so it's impossible to dominate a game when you can't pass out of doubles. Dirk is dominant. I think the first two are effective but dominating is another level.
I see your Aldridge comment,and thats why i said probably a year or so away.If he improves as much from last year to this year and next as he did from the year before to last year he will be.Ive noticed him starting to work off both sides of block,pass out of block,and hes defending better as well i think.Part of that is the good defensive players around him im sure but hey.

As far as D12,I dont think you dont have to be great at everything to be a dominant player....that being said,i think he is getting much more effective at passing out of double teams then he was before.He completely changes the opposing teams gameplanning,offense,and defense.They win because he is there,and in spite of the overall talent level of that team.I dunno,maybe im wrong,and maybe im biased b/c ive seen him against the best in the NBA in person because whenever i plan my trips to see my sister in Florida its around when they are playing a very good team,but that seems dominant to me.
 6 years ago '11        #113
DCballer40 
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 atl12o13 said:
Yea,the numbers are definitely clear in Gasols favor.He avg. 18 n 10 and 19 and 11 for those two championship seasons.That being said,If i had to pick one of the two guys to play one series in their prime id take Sheed,hes a at times dominant defensively and I think was part of why Ben Wallace looked so good then fell off so quick.Id rather have Sheed taking a big shot too,but thats really just more i think hes tougher mentally and physically.I guess he gets a pass b/c noone ever really thought that Detroit team would win and because his all around game somewhat made up for his lack of number offensively.I just saw an articla esaying hes thinking about playing this year actually lol.
Yeh Sheed is head and shoulders a better defender then Gasol but over 10+ years...Gasol off numbers sh*t on Sheeds. But Gasol's 18.8ppg, 9.1 rpg over 10 seasons > 14.6ppg 6.7 rpg...its not even close. Just pair Gasol with a tough and less talented Center and you'd be good. Sheed will always defer and with his talent thats Bullsh*t.
 6 years ago '07        #114
Cambury 39 heat pts39
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 AirForce318 said:
I'm pretty sure that 94 Bulls team with Pip and no MJ only had 1 HOF player and he had to win two series to get the the ECF right? so this one is slightly off... And Gasol will get into the HOF because he has 2 rings and decent numbers so idk about these Kobe "facts" about the HOF player...

At the end of the day Kobe doesn't have the individual accolades or the stats to be better than MJ...
Pau isn't no fu*king HOF...his contemporaries dont even respect how the hell the old guys going to


Do u realize how many players better than Gasol aren't in the HOF. This isn't a video game this is real life and he is not that good.
 6 years ago '04        #115
AnthonyCruz 1 heat pts
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you guys are f*ggots if you actually believe this lol
 6 years ago '07        #116
Cambury 39 heat pts39
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 atl12o13 said:
I see your Aldridge comment,and thats why i said probably a year or so away.If he improves as much from last year to this year and next as he did from the year before to last year he will be.Ive noticed him starting to work off both sides of block,pass out of block,and hes defending better as well i think.Part of that is the good defensive players around him im sure but hey.

As far as D12,I dont think you dont have to be great at everything to be a dominant player....that being said,i think he is getting much more effective at passing out of double teams then he was before.He completely changes the opposing teams gameplanning,offense,and defense.They win because he is there,and in spite of the overall talent level of that team.I dunno,maybe im wrong,and maybe im biased b/c ive seen him against the best in the NBA in person because whenever i plan my trips to see my sister in Florida its around when they are playing a very good team,but that seems dominant to me.
I will be sure to watch more Dwight this season but i hadn't seen it last year. Being dominant means doing something consistently that has to be the focus gameplan for the opposing coaches then when that is taken away your team still flourishes because they not focused on you. When Dwight Howard focuses on the post it takes his team out of the game becuz its takes alot of effort for him to score. I think Dwight and Bynum have the same issue but the difference is Bynum 1 on 1 can't be stopped by anyone where Dwight has a couple of players that give him trouble when he goes into scoring mode. Also missing as many free throws as Dwight misses he jus has to make more.
 6 years ago '11        #117
DCballer40 
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 AirForce318 said:
I'm pretty sure that 94 Bulls team with Pip and no MJ only had 1 HOF player and he had to win two series to get the the ECF right? so this one is slightly off... And Gasol will get into the HOF because he has 2 rings and decent numbers so idk about these Kobe "facts" about the HOF player...

At the end of the day Kobe doesn't have the individual accolades or the stats to be better than MJ...
But I already stated Pip was a HOF player!? Do I have to mention that at every turn? and it comes to stats...but when Kobe scores 40 on 50% shooting and they lose Kobe is hurting the team. Jordan had 2 season back to back where his teams SUCKED and he had free reign to score 36 a night no problems no blames.
 6 years ago '05        #118
TheT 21 heat pts21
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 Suppafresh said:
He numb to passing not numb to shooting. What Kobe meant to say when he holds has hand in a position to the ball he can't feel the ball he only feels the ball in the shooting position. The passing nerve in his brain is to damage. So he can only shoot.
 bxrulez said:
This niga Kobes is so selfish its ASTOUNDING, Bynum only got to shot the ball 13 times yesterday....I told people who were bragging about this stupid a.ss 40point streak that when Lakers plays a good team they are going to lose, Bynum an Gasol be looking blown as fu*k to play with this niga

If u barley beating Cavs an Utah no1 gives a fu*k how many pts u dropping ur obviously putting the team in the backseat and just worrying about your own fu*king GUNNING....and man this niga is a GUNNER niga be like ''hoorahhhhhhhhhhhh ahhhhhhhhhh tatataaaaaa!!!"
[pic - click to view]



Like I said if this dummy would be more efficient and put up like 27 and get like 7 a.ssts 7boards...they would WIN....fu*king Bynum had like 12pts 16boards and same a.ssts as Kobe 4 lol, Gasol got a decent amount of shots up but there is no way u have a dominant big man capable of easily putting up a minimum of 20 points and u DONT FEED HIM the ball....I mean im just telling the truth....I dont hate Kobe I see a waste/misuse of talent becuz of his personality....as someone who personally played 2guard his whole life IF I DONT NEED TO DO MORE becuz I got good players to help me out THAT WOULD MAKE ME HAPPY lol, this way I know we will be a contending/great team and sh*t dont gotta all rely on me I only would take alot of shots cuz I had to and it was necessary to win the game but u see Kobe having help and still tries to do everything and score all the fu*king points and Im watching the game like :wtf:
 bxrulez said:
this the thing Kobe trying to prove he better then Jordan and that he can win without dominate scoring men but man.....u not Jordan....give it up.....DO YOU....
All this...

This bi*ch a.ss n*gga is trash and a chucker. All he wants to do is shoot and not get anyone involved. Dude not even top 10 all time and barely in the top 20 this season.
 01-15-2012, 05:26 PM         #119
bxrulez 
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 DCballer40 said:
- You brought up Rodman not being a dominant scoring big man...i countered by saying he didnt need to be a dominant scoring big.

- You nor I ever spoke on the first 3 peat. That is the only batch of rings MJ has that impresses me anyway. He beat ALL TIME GREAT teams during that run with only Pip and role players. That 2nd 3peat the Bulls were loaded

- Jordan has NEVER EVER WON A PLAYOFF SERIES WITHOUT Scottie Pippen a top 50 HOF player

- Oh and because Jordan never made it out of the 1st round before Scottie came around you said he never lost a best of 7 series. Yeh thats right because he was too busy GETTING SWEPT 2 straight years in the first round

FACT: Jordan never won a ring without a HOF player
FACT: Kobe won 2 RINGS being the ONLY HOF player

FACT: Kobe has been swept 3 times in the playoffs
FACT: Jordan has been swept 2 times in the playoffs

FACT: Kobe has won 11 playoff series and took the Lakers to 3 straight finals without another HOF player
FACT: Jordan has won ZERO playoff series without a HOF player so how could he reach the finals anyway
FACT: Pippen has won ONE playoff series without a HOF and took the Bulls to the EC Semis Game 7 without Jordan
In all honesty.....do you think Pippen would be an HOF if he never played with Jordan?

Why are u bringing up the fact Mj didnt win without Pip.....Pippen IS NOT A DOMINANT BIG MAN.....everyone needs SOME HELP to win...point is....NO ONE COULD WIN A RING WITH THAT TEAM BESIDES JORDAN.....Kobe cant win a ring with JUST 1 OTHER ALL STAR SMALL FORWARD or WING PLAYER....no way.....and now your making EXCUSES saying only his first 3 rings impress you? LOL thats the point...those first 3 rings SHOW how Jordan was the best player ever....with that team he won 3 in a row thats RIDICULOUS, especially against who he did it against, KOBE HASNT EVEN SNEEERED OR CAME CLOSE to doing ANYTHING THAT CLOSE...come on son Pippen was good...but he ONLY AVERAGED 22 PER GAME THE SEASON AFTER JORDAN LEFT.......think about that.....as the MAIN OFFENSIVE PIECE ON YOUR TEAM....in that ERA.....22ppg is NOT CUTTIN IT......and plus he went EXTREMELY downhill after that...when Pippen was singled out to be the main player he was solid but come on....
 6 years ago '11        #120
DCballer40 
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 bxrulez said:
In all honesty.....do you think Pippen would be an HOF if he never played with Jordan?

Why are u bringing up the fact Mj didnt win without Pip.....Pippen IS NOT A DOMINANT BIG MAN.....everyone needs SOME HELP to win...point is....NO ONE COULD WIN A RING WITH THAT TEAM BESIDES JORDAN.....Kobe cant win a ring with JUST 1 OTHER ALL STAR SMALL FORWARD or WING PLAYER....no way.....and now your making EXCUSES saying only his first 3 rings impress you? LOL thats the point...those first 3 rings SHOW how Jordan was the best player ever....with that team he won 3 in a row thats RIDICULOUS, especially against who he did it against, KOBE HASNT EVEN SNEEERED OR CAME CLOSE to doing ANYTHING THAT CLOSE...come on son Pippen was good...but he ONLY AVERAGED 22 PER GAME THE SEASON AFTER JORDAN LEFT.......think about that.....as the MAIN OFFENSIVE PIECE ON YOUR TEAM....in that ERA.....22ppg is NOT CUTTIN IT......and plus he went EXTREMELY downhill after that...when Pippen was singled out to be the main player he was solid but come on....
Why are you ethering YOURSELF. The main and only argument that is told by fans and players alike is that you need to TWO great players to win a ship. All of this started because you wanted your beloved MJ to be the only man in the history of the game to win without a dominant big which is irrelevant since you need 2 great players regardless of position to win. There have been 3-4 other teams in the last 20 years to win without a dominant post scorer. The Pistons of the 80s won without a dominant post scorer...and without looking into Parrish's finals numbers....the C's of the 80s won as well in a dominant Center era. So SHUT THAT sh*t UP. Your argument has been FLAWED from jump and you backed the wrong stance. You didnt want to say 2 great players win a ship because Jordan would've have been left out of the convo since he had Pip

Just shut the fu*k up and stop posting already. Teams have won without a DOMINANT big whether Center or PF. This era has produced the most dominant PFs in the last 35-45 years of basketball so stop saying there are no great PFs or Centers. Also there has only been 2 teams to arguably win without 2 historically GREAT players. Thats the Pistons and the Mavs....maybe the Rockets (depending on how you view Clyde at that stage of his career). And Im being generous by not including the Lakers but Gasol avg 18.5 and 11rpg was All Star level....dominant NO, but All-Star, 2nd team All NBA level.

Im done on this matter

edit: the mavs won with a past his prime J-Kidd. He is one of the greats of the last 2 ERAS of basketball. And there could be an argument that he contributed more then he is given credit for with his stellar defense and 3 point shooting.


Last edited by DCballer40; 01-15-2012 at 05:55 PM..
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