Method Man Thinks "Watch The Throne" Should Have Been Nas and Jay-Z

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 6 years ago '05        #61
StateProperty88 34 heat pts34
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 Prophecy_projet said:
I dont know if they need to even have the ear of the youngsters anyway to generate interest.

The one thing I can say about both is that they've aged (IMO) fairly well and this is the first legitimate generation where there's older rap fans (25+) and there's stuff out there to cater to them.
I could see a mixed variety of fans buying it depending on how they approached it.
i cant...i only see a certain variety of fan that would by this album and thats why it would not do that well mainstream-wise. thats wishful thinking imo

and you do have to have the ear of the younger crowd to generate interest, thats the demographic with the biggest say in the this genre specifically, and music in general.
 6 years ago '11        #62
Urbanchill 5 heat pts
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nas would just make jay look old
 6 years ago '04        #63
GollyI'mGully 69 heat pts69
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 Urbanchill said:
nas would just make jay look old
sidney poitier makes jay look old
 6 years ago '05        #64
WCIB 111 heat pts111
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 DJ Maximum said:
nas wouldve wanted wack beats...
what if it was on the same beats as WTT?
 10-29-2011, 05:48 AM         #65
Prophecy_projet 
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 StateProperty88 said:
i cant...i only see a certain variety of fan that would by this album and thats why it would not do that well mainstream-wise. thats wishful thinking imo

and you do have to have the ear of the younger crowd to generate interest, thats the demographic with the biggest say in the this genre specifically, and music in general.
Nah I think that gets overstated way too much. How do you measure what kids like anyway now? Its a little more fragmented than before. Like even 106 and Park and Hot 97 aren't leaders of that movement anymore (They dont play Mac Miller and look at his following)

Nas and Damian Marley were able to tour for 2 years and headline big festivals and sell out big arenas (It was kinda cool to see Nas do a 20,000 people set in London in March when I was there to see him at Wembley Arena and it was his own show) and make some nice headlines and press for it overseas. And that was with an album slept on by youngsters (at least in the US..kinda made a little noise in Europe). He didn't need the kids to eat off that project.

I think you can make a successful album and not have to appeal to kids. If its critically good that helps, certainly the press alone would generate interest.

On the flip-side consider this:
A lot of young MCs that are successful now, are successful because they don't just have the ears of the kids, but everyone. Like J.Cole was able to sell because he's sort of a lyricist that has the sensibilities to appeal to older heads and younger ones (which is why I think he gets the "next Nas" co-signs). Even his commercial records sound like something from the late 90s/early 2000s that would be played on the radio (the Missy Elliot collabo for instance). Whereas someone like say Big Sean, chose to make an album that was very much in tune with what he thought was for youngsters and very much a youth orientated album and it just wasn't as good or successful as Cole.


So I think the notion that you have to appeal to kids is not a very clear one. Good music is good music. I think if the people are familiar with the names and the album is good, the buzz generates itself and if it generates itself, it gets interest.

And look, it wouldn't need to go Plat to be a success. Rick Ross is the hottest rapper in the game and he has never seen a million units in his career. Only Built for Cuban Linx 2 didnt even go gold but it got buzz and critical praise to the point where Rae was back in the spotlight for a minute there. Same with Big Boi (and he sold less than Distant Relatives).
It's success would be defined differently than that.


I just think when the names are big and the music is worth the hype, that's a pretty good indication. People get way too caught up in making it a wider generational gap than it really is.
 6 years ago '05        #66
PitneyAssassin1 6 heat pts
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 StateProperty88 said:
no disrespect to nas...but Ye's resume speaks for itself
 6 years ago '05        #67
StateProperty88 34 heat pts34
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 Prophecy_projet said:
Nah I think that gets overstated way too much. How do you measure what kids like anyway now? Its a little more fragmented than before. Like even 106 and Park and Hot 97 aren't leaders of that movement anymore (They dont play Mac Miller and look at his following)

Nas and Damian Marley were able to tour for 2 years and headline big festivals and sell out big arenas (It was kinda cool to see Nas do a 20,000 people set in London in March when I was there to see him at Wembley Arena and it was his own show) and make some nice headlines and press for it overseas. And that was with an album slept on by youngsters (at least in the US..kinda made a little noise in Europe). He didn't need the kids to eat off that project.

I think you can make a successful album and not have to appeal to kids. If its critically good that helps, certainly the press alone would generate interest.

On the flip-side consider this:
A lot of young MCs that are successful now, are successful because they don't just have the ears of the kids, but everyone. Like J.Cole was able to sell because he's sort of a lyricist that has the sensibilities to appeal to older heads and younger ones (which is why I think he gets the "next Nas" co-signs). Even his commercial records sound like something from the late 90s/early 2000s that would be played on the radio (the Missy Elliot collabo for instance). Whereas someone like say Big Sean, chose to make an album that was very much in tune with what he thought was for youngsters and very much a youth orientated album and it just wasn't as good or successful as Cole.


So I think the notion that you have to appeal to kids is not a very clear one. Good music is good music. I think if the people are familiar with the names and the album is good, the buzz generates itself and if it generates itself, it gets interest.

And look, it wouldn't need to go Plat to be a success. Rick Ross is the hottest rapper in the game and he has never seen a million units in his career. Only Built for Cuban Linx 2 didnt even go gold but it got buzz and critical praise to the point where Rae was back in the spotlight for a minute there. Same with Big Boi (and he sold less than Distant Relatives).
It's success would be defined differently than that.


I just think when the names are big and the music is worth the hype, that's a pretty good indication. People get way too caught up in making it a wider generational gap than it really is.
you bring up mac miller but the majority of his following is the youth. like i said the youth drive the music business in general, i think j cole sold because he got his name out there and did his thing on features, and broadened his fanbase

of course nas and dam are going to have a successful tour, they are both vets with quality fan bases...but how did "distant relatives" do in terms of generating interest and having mainstream success? it just wasnt there, it is what it is

quality doesnt equate to sales, seen that o too many times. good music is good music, i never said it wasnt. really has nothing to do with what im saying because quality is objective, you decide whats good to you. however, it doesnt change the fact that mainstream success relies on the younger demographic and for that reason i dont think a jay and nas album would have much mainstream success. does that mean it wont be a good album...no, but like i said sales are not dependent on quality, quality doesnt hurt, doesnt help that much either (wasnt always like this, but it is now imo)

and big boi and rae didnt have that much buzz for their albums at all...big boi barely had any, i was disappointed in that because outkast is in my top 5, but im 25, younger cats arent clocking for Big Boi, or Rae for that matter. and im not speaking in absolute so im not acting like no young person is listening to this guys...im saying a very high majority, very high


Last edited by StateProperty88; 10-29-2011 at 06:15 AM..
 6 years ago '05        #68
StateProperty88 34 heat pts34
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 PitneyAssassin1 said:
 6 years ago '05        #69
AirForce318 
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 Andre3stacks said:
If done right it could be a damn good cd. imagine songs like success. Kanye got murked on every trck on WTT.
lol wut? Kanye k!lled Jayo on everything except for murder to Excellence and New Day....
 6 years ago '05        #70
Majestic_GMMB 1 heat pts
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sh*t give me Jay and Nas anyday....WTT was too Kayne influenced...With Nas Jay would've really had to step his game up
 6 years ago '10        #71
A.Dot789 1053 heat pts1053
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nas and jay on the mic and kanye doing the production would have been dope
 6 years ago '11        #72
KidNice 173 heat pts173
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 10-29-2011, 06:52 AM         #73
ManWithoutFear! 
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So a whole album of Nas poopin' all over Hov as opposed to some momo rapper/producer poopin' all over Hov?

eh... why not?
 10-29-2011, 06:52 AM         #74
Ca$h Out 
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Nah...

Kanye and jay go good if you take it back to the roc days.
 6 years ago '10        #75
Fly Elroy 321 heat pts321
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nas and jay would've been crazy!

imagine how much better jay's rhymes would have been and imagine hearing nas over some dope beats
 6 years ago '09        #76
59fifty 
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Never understood the whole "nas chooses wack beats" thing...
 10-29-2011, 07:19 AM         #77
Prophecy_projet 
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 StateProperty88 said:
you bring up mac miller but the majority of his following is the youth. like i said the youth drive the music business in general, i think j cole sold because he got his name out there and did his thing on features, and broadened his fanbase

of course nas and dam are going to have a successful tour, they are both vets with quality fan bases...but how did "distant relatives" do in terms of generating interest and having mainstream success? it just wasnt there, it is what it is

quality doesnt equate to sales, seen that o too many times. good music is good music, i never said it wasnt. really has nothing to do with what im saying because quality is objective, you decide whats good to you. however, it doesnt change the fact that mainstream success relies on the younger demographic and for that reason i dont think a jay and nas album would have much mainstream success. does that mean it wont be a good album...no, but like i said sales are not dependent on quality, quality doesnt hurt, doesnt help that much either (wasnt always like this, but it is now imo)

and big boi and rae didnt have that much buzz for their albums at all...big boi barely had any, i was disappointed in that because outkast is in my top 5, but im 25, younger cats arent clocking for Big Boi, or Rae for that matter. and im not speaking in absolute so im not acting like no young person is listening to this guys...im saying a very high majority, very high

But Im giving you Mac Miller as an example where any random dude can get a fanbase and his lane is different than Jay and Nas. Like they wouldn't need to do things Mac does.


I do know Distant Relatives was able to be number 1 on the billboard reggae charts for like 2-3 months straight and was able to sell fairly well overseas. That's what I'm saying in terms of a presence. To young people in the States, it had no audience but it clearly had people checking for it elsewhere


The thing I'm trying to say is that mainstream success becomes more and more hard to measure and I dont think its just on young people. Like I dont think its just young people buying Adele's record for instance. Either way, let's not act like a Jay and Nas album is like Raekwon and Ghost putting an album. I'm pretty sure it would sell north of 500,000, and even if it doesn't I dont know if that's a dissapointment. It would be a better version of the Bad Meets Evil album which didnt know as well as Em's other albums but still stayed on the charts. Again, how would we measure success because Watch the Throne has "only" got platinum despite now having fairly heavy promo compared to its inital release, and I think that's considered a success.

I use Big Boi and Raekwon's albums as good indicators because look how they topped the "best of" lists the year they came out. And it was in publications and websites that young people check out like Pitchfork, Spin, Village Voice etc etc. You even saw people on these boards and others praise it
You gotta think of it like this, they are under 25's who are Hip-Hop heads who do check for the vets too. Its not just the listeners who listened to whatever is on commercial radio and whoever does the college promo circuit too.
 6 years ago '10        #78
DRockBSP 
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Nope. Cause if it was that n*ggas would haddd way more expectations than would of bi*ched for a jay ye CD. WTT is dope.


Last edited by DRockBSP; 10-29-2011 at 07:26 AM..
 6 years ago '09        #79
Dice 9 heat pts
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Should have been Nas and Jay with Ye producing the beats. Get the best of both worlds. WTT would have been a bit more lyrical if that happened. But then again all these 15 year old kids that love the album might not have d!ckrided it because Ye wasnt rapping on it.
 6 years ago '06        #80
jvpimp 
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 StateProperty88 said:
since when do you matter?

n*ggas hurt by the truth i see
Stfu!
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