Em got the balls to compete unlike jay, thats why hes more respected in the hiphop community

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Props Slaps
 6 years ago '05        #41
sheedawg 2 heat pts
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Oh not this again. This is the problem with hip hop, ya'll jut want your artists to remain within the realm of hip hop. Jay tryna take it to a wider audience for acceptance yet he gets hated on it for that. Jay has done the street albums, he's done a song with EVERY GOAT with 2pac being the rare exception.

Why is it with Jay that their is this double standard, that doesn't apply to Nas? Yet Nas releases a tracka bout balling / bi*ches / fly sh*t (which I have no problem with, I actually like his Escobar persona) and you dudes salivate at the mouth, but when Jay doesn't something new and fresh he's a sell out and gets hated on.

Why is that all this criticism comes from FANS, not the artists themselves? Because the artists themselves already know what Jay is about and he is respected by his peers. RZA, Q-Tip, Kanye and Jay on and album in 2011 yet YOU still think it's not hip hop, just cause it doesnt follow the 'real hip hop formula".

But ya'll won't criticize Em for all the pop records he's done, jsut because he appears to be rapping his a.ss off.

If ya'll had any clue or were in touch with the real world, you would realize that Jay is trying to expand the culture and take it to places it's never been before. He said it best on D.O.A, "I don't be in the projects hallways, talking about how I be in the projects ALL DAY".

It's like ya'll can't handle a man being successful, and only want them to exist within the realm of hip hop when its been clear for so long that he's been off that. Kanye is the same, and what do you know, they are the 2 guys who constantly (only on the internet though) get called for not being "hip hop".
 10-12-2011, 09:21 PM         #42
Karamu  OP
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when he says hes bigger than hip hop, hes not saying hes bigger than the genre, hes saying hes got other responsibilities than the smaller things in rap music(cyphers, beefs, freestyles, etc.) i'm sure hes got a handful with the new stadium in brooklyn for the nets move on him right now.

i hope Roc Nation has a BET cypher one day though
 6 years ago '05        #43
sheedawg 2 heat pts
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Another point, why is it that these sort of comments are never directed at someone like Wayne?
 10-12-2011, 09:39 PM         #44
rafi  OP
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 sheedawg said:
Another point, why is it that these sort of comments are never directed at someone like Wayne?
Or Nas. When's the last time you heard of Nas being in a battle or cypher?
 6 years ago '04        #45
psylence2k 58 heat pts58
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 sheedawg said:
Oh not this again. This is the problem with hip hop, ya'll jut want your artists to remain within the realm of hip hop. Jay tryna take it to a wider audience for acceptance yet he gets hated on it for that. Jay has done the street albums, he's done a song with EVERY GOAT with 2pac being the rare exception.

Why is it with Jay that their is this double standard, that doesn't apply to Nas? Yet Nas releases a tracka bout balling / bi*ches / fly sh*t (which I have no problem with, I actually like his Escobar persona) and you dudes salivate at the mouth, but when Jay doesn't something new and fresh he's a sell out and gets hated on.

Why is that all this criticism comes from FANS, not the artists themselves? Because the artists themselves already know what Jay is about and he is respected by his peers. RZA, Q-Tip, Kanye and Jay on and album in 2011 yet YOU still think it's not hip hop, just cause it doesnt follow the 'real hip hop formula".

But ya'll won't criticize Em for all the pop records he's done, jsut because he appears to be rapping his a.ss off.

If ya'll had any clue or were in touch with the real world, you would realize that Jay is trying to expand the culture and take it to places it's never been before. He said it best on D.O.A, "I don't be in the projects hallways, talking about how I be in the projects ALL DAY".

It's like ya'll can't handle a man being successful, and only want them to exist within the realm of hip hop when its been clear for so long that he's been off that. Kanye is the same, and what do you know, they are the 2 guys who constantly (only on the internet though) get called for not being "hip hop".

I think you're missing the point , nobody is mad that Jay is out there running businesses , getting money, topping forbes , and all that, I love the fact that he's broadening the culture and giving it exposure commercially in places it's never been, he deserves his spot in hip hop history for THAT single aspect of course. I think he's top 5 D.O.A. undeniably off his past work.

I think the main problem that ppl have with him is that his persona definitely comes off as if he thinks he's bigger than the culture itself. He's a very selfish and self centered individual, not saying that's a good or bad thing, he's a business man and a hustler first that's ALWAYS been his M.O. , he wanted to stay a hustler until he found out how much money he could make off rap. He's no different than any other greedy and ruthless CEO in corporate america, now it's up to either call that smart or heartless. Tho since his early days there's always been stories that date even back to his childhood or him stepping on ppl to get where he needed to be . I mean the kid shot and almost k!lled his own brother over jewelry and would eat whole bags of cookies without even giving his friends one. When you add up all the little shyt you can pretty much tell what type of person someone is. It's no surprise that he would go on to steal people's beats, pay the "homies" in his crew pennies to open for him when they had bigger hits at the time, and even kept his own friends from eating when he felt threatened. Out of all that swagger and ego his selfishness and insecurities leak through clearly. From girls callin him ugly to his dad leaving him he clearly has emotional trauma he tries to overcompensate for.

Your comment about criticism coming from fans and not artists is pretty inaccurate. 90% of the ppl Jay has had friendships with that we know of publicly have all fell out with him and call him a snake. Artists all share the same stories of meeting him and his standoffish aura and c*cky ego rubbing them the wrong way. It definitely seems like out of all the artists that know him at least half if not most really dont like him as a person.

On the other hand artists that have actually met Em said he's pretty humble and genuine ( as J.Cole said) which wouldn't be expected for an artist of his stature. He's constantly helping indie and lesser known artists get on, being hands on, and spending his very very valuable time doing work on their projects that he knows he's just gonna make pennies on if that. Jay-Z just signs dudes , gives them keys to the studio , books his flight for saint tropez and tells them not to call him until they have the album finished with a number 1 hit spinning. Not saying he's obligated to help , I cant really say it's the "wrong" thing to do, but it's clear here who puts their ego before the culture and who doesn't.

and I definitely wouldn't but Ye and Jay in the same boat, Ye no matter how egotistical and arrogant he make come off as, clearly has the same intense "passion" for the music that Em does. Like Eminem he's a perfectionist and will spend hours and hours upon days and days and weeks in the studio to perfect one song and he like Em CONSTANTLY gives praise and checks for lesser known artists ( like when Ye called Banks and Joell two of the best and most underrated rappers in the game, Top 5 DOA, etc ). Ye has a huge ego but he constantly puts it aside for the sake of the culture , Jay rarely if ever does that. They both love the music , Em constantly listens and memorizes his artists music and recites it back to them, Jay probably slashes his artist budget and blocks their numbers when they fail to recite his own shyt back to him. I mean just look at his inner circle, there's a reason why 95% of his friends are gone.
 6 years ago '10        #46
shadydre85 34 heat pts34
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eminem made jay afraid to ever diss him after renagade, jay knew if he ever beefed with em he would loose realy bad.:cool-smiley-009:
 10-12-2011, 10:00 PM         #47
yeugkk  OP
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 Agentzer0oo0 said:
Em has sold more than Jay, whose the bigger rapper out of those two?

Em has sold more than Pac whose the bigger rapper out of those two?

My case is rested with that.


Em had a more earcatching verse, Jay had a more thought-provoking verse on Renegade.

Syllables? You're reaching like a mother if you think he out-shined him on that. They both had good verses.
Eminem is a bigger artist than jay lol

we cant compare him to pac, cuz pac is dead

Jay had to pay Royce just to get on Renegade lol, his verses werent really that thought provoking imo. Eminem's verses were both thought provoking n lyrical as fu*k

U right tho, both jay n eminem had dope verses on syllables

jay really only does attack rappers when he knows they are completely in the wrong or at a low point
 6 years ago '11        #48
HipHop Since 93 11 heat pts11
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The difference is Jay worked with alot of artists in the past and Eminem is just starting to work with people outside of Dre, 50, D12, etc. Outside of Jay-Z I cant think of anybody else Eminem worked with prior to Relapse. Drake, Ross, and Jeezy all got verses from Jay on their first album. & like a couple people already said, Eminem wasnt on the cypher to compete, he was there to bring attention to Slaughterhouse & Yelawolf.
 6 years ago '05        #49
sheedawg 2 heat pts
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 psylence2k said:
I think you're missing the point , nobody is mad that Jay is out there running businesses , getting money, topping forbes , and all that, I love the fact that he's broadening the culture and giving it exposure commercially in places it's never been, he deserves his spot in hip hop history for THAT single aspect of course. I think he's top 5 D.O.A. undeniably off his past work.

I think the main problem that ppl have with him is that his persona definitely comes off as if he thinks he's bigger than the culture itself. He's a very selfish and self centered individual, not saying that's a good or bad thing, he's a business man and a hustler first that's ALWAYS been his M.O. , he wanted to stay a hustler until he found out how much money he could make off rap. He's no different than any other greedy and ruthless CEO in corporate america, now it's up to either call that smart or heartless. Tho since his early days there's always been stories that date even back to his childhood or him stepping on ppl to get where he needed to be . I mean the kid shot and almost k!lled his own brother over jewelry and would eat whole bags of cookies without even giving his friends one. When you add up all the little shyt you can pretty much tell what type of person someone is. It's no surprise that he would go on to steal people's beats, pay the "homies" in his crew pennies to open for him when they had bigger hits at the time, and even kept his own friends from eating when he felt threatened. Out of all that swagger and ego his selfishness and insecurities leak through clearly. From girls callin him ugly to his dad leaving him he clearly has emotional trauma he tries to overcompensate for.

Your comment about criticism coming from fans and not artists is pretty inaccurate. 90% of the ppl Jay has had friendships with that we know of publicly have all fell out with him and call him a snake. Artists all share the same stories of meeting him and his standoffish aura and c*cky ego rubbing them the wrong way. It definitely seems like out of all the artists that know him at least half if not most really dont like him as a person.

On the other hand artists that have actually met Em said he's pretty humble and genuine ( as J.Cole said) which wouldn't be expected for an artist of his stature. He's constantly helping indie and lesser known artists get on, being hands on, and spending his very very valuable time doing work on their projects that he knows he's just gonna make pennies on if that. Jay-Z just signs dudes , gives them keys to the studio , books his flight for saint tropez and tells them not to call him until they have the album finished with a number 1 hit spinning. Not saying he's obligated to help , I cant really say it's the "wrong" thing to do, but it's clear here who puts their ego before the culture and who doesn't.

and I definitely wouldn't but Ye and Jay in the same boat, Ye no matter how egotistical and arrogant he make come off as, clearly has the same intense "passion" for the music that Em does. Like Eminem he's a perfectionist and will spend hours and hours upon days and days and weeks in the studio to perfect one song and he like Em CONSTANTLY gives praise and checks for lesser known artists ( like when Ye called Banks and Joell two of the best and most underrated rappers in the game, Top 5 DOA, etc ). Ye has a huge ego but he constantly puts it aside for the sake of the culture , Jay rarely if ever does that. They both love the music , Em constantly listens and memorizes his artists music and recites it back to them, Jay probably slashes his artist budget and blocks their numbers when they fail to recite his own shyt back to him. I mean just look at his inner circle, there's a reason why 95% of his friends are gone.
One again, props because you bring up some good points.

I'm not missing the point at all, because the main point of this thread is that Jay needs to prove himself, and be more hip hop. My question is why?

Jay-Z signing J.Cole and Jay Electronica isn't enough? A Jay-Z so sign, much like Eminem with Slaughterhouse basically aims at making dudes who te underground been cheering for years, more of name across the board, people like Jay and Em can make dudes like Budden and Electronica more of a household name (I'm not saying they are) because of the power and respect they command.

Eminem is rebuilding a brand, of course he is gonna be all on these cyphers etc. because he knows how much his co signs and appearance means just by a.ssociation to his label mates.

Because Jay's personality is different to Em's that shouldn't be unfairly held against him.

Also on you Kanye point, I disagree with you notion that Jay isn't passionate about the culture, please. Jay been and still is passionate about the culture otherwise he wouldn't be consistently putting out music. Just because it's not as "hip hop" or because Jay doesn't ramble off a bunch of underground artists doesn't mean he isn't in touch with the culture.

As you said, Jay is hustler point blank period, and yes he is egotistical, self centered but to criticize him for the very attitude that got him this far is unfair. Jay has always been about himself and thats just how he is, I'm not mad at him for it because as long as the music is great (which I still think it is) then I have no issues.
 6 years ago '05        #50
sheedawg 2 heat pts
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 rafi said:
Or Nas. When's the last time you heard of Nas being in a battle or cypher?
Because Nas is about "real hip hop" supposedly . Nas gets a pass for everything, especially on this site.
 10-12-2011, 10:21 PM         #51
Marvin Hagler  OP
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 sheedawg said:
Another point, why is it that these sort of comments are never directed at someone like Wayne?

becuz Wayne aint considered worthy of bein da Pepsi to Eminem's Coca Cola ya dig... pretty much da same reason that Fif never gits mentioned in juxtaposition to another elite artist or lyricist. fo da most part internet forum hip hop heads dont consider them worthy of it from a lyrical standpoint ya dig


off topic but is a pimp da only n*gga on da planet who wasnt impressed by Renegade Eminem? trill talk wasnt never crazy bout da record, least fav track on Blueprint, both were beneath they standards but to pimpin Jay wuz CLEARLY better and Em wuz kinda corny. jus a side note been trippin off since i was 12 years old
 6 years ago '09        #52
trock34 93 heat pts93
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 Karamu said:
when he says hes bigger than hip hop, hes not saying hes bigger than the genre, hes saying hes got other responsibilities than the smaller things in rap music(cyphers, beefs, freestyles, etc.) i'm sure hes got a handful with the new stadium in brooklyn for the nets move on him right now.

i hope Roc Nation has a BET cypher one day though
my fav camel warrior
 10-12-2011, 10:36 PM         #53
yeugkk  OP
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 sheedawg said:
Because Nas is about "real hip hop" supposedly . Nas gets a pass for everything, especially on this site.
no, we all just feel sorry for him
 6 years ago '11        #54
Silencer 77 heat pts77
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 DrX said:
Em is the second highest selling artist of all time and dont got nothing to gain by rapping with underground crews, doing cyphers and battling dudes like like canibus and ja


jay on the other hand huge ego wont allow him to jump on a track with young hungry talent do cyphers or even battle big time sellers like wayne

what has jay ever done to prove that hes real hiphop....what do he do? he dont battle, he dont cypher, he dont freestyle, he dont callab with these young hungry lyricist


em truly loves the artform, hell jump on a track with anybody because he love the game, he aint afraid of getting beat on a track....nas is the same way . jay walks around with his nose in the air like hes some sort of god when in reality he just make mediocre raps about his material possessions..
I feel u bruh and Em is definitely tryin to keep the hip hop culture alive, since day 1 really.
But if you notice Em dosen't collab with too many people either. Neither does J but at least J features no name producers on pretty much all of his albums.
All in all Jay Z or Em could have been retired but they do it for the luv ego trippin or not.
Same with Snoop, 50, etc.



I think Em's freestyles where pre-written too but thats just my opinion.
 6 years ago '10        #55
Agentzer0oo0 209 heat pts209
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 yeugkk said:
Eminem is a bigger artist than jay lol (You really don't believe that do you? I'm dead serious, no bias involved. You really, really, really don't believe that do you?)

we cant compare him to pac, cuz pac is dead (We can't compare them? Are you.....forget it)

Jay had to pay Royce just to get on Renegade lol, his verses werent really that thought provoking imo. Eminem's verses were both thought provoking n lyrical as fu*k (Please point me in the direction where it's said Jay had to pay Royce & wow at the rest of your sentence...wowwww....)

U right tho, both jay n eminem had dope verses on syllables

jay really only does attack rappers when he knows they are completely in the wrong or at a low point( w-w-w-w-what? )

[pic - click to view]

 6 years ago '11        #56
Retro 83 heat pts83
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Jay's social status may transcend hip hop but he as an artist does not. I think it's a slap in the face to all of the people who allowed Jay-Z to even exist to say that he's bigger than they are. Hip Hop is larger than the sum of its parts, and Jay-Z is just that, a part....
 6 years ago '10        #57
Agentzer0oo0 209 heat pts209
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 Fade said:
Jay's social status may transcend hip hop but he as an artist does not. I think it's a slap in the face to all of the people who allowed Jay-Z to even exist to say that he's bigger than they are. Hip Hop is larger than the sum of its parts, and Jay-Z is just that, a part....
I think you misunderstood the question. Jay-z IS bigger than hip hop. In a sense that he isn’t JUST a hip hop artist. He’s bigger than THAT. And I must disagree regarding the Beyonce thing. That’s unless you mean mainstream media as in Life & Style Magazine and all those other gossip rags. He wasn’t never on em to begin with. And yes, it’s Beyonce that puts him on there because they’re interested in her. Again, THOSE ARE GOSSIP RAGS. Because any person making business moves the will Jay does, gets mentioned in MAINSTREAM magazines and websites. And I don’t mean hearsay & gossip blogs & websites.


That probably is what I'm getting at when I say he's bigger than hip-hop. And he is

Micheal Jackson is more than Pop

Micheal Jordan is more than Basketball

Those two are global phenoms. Am I saying Jay is in the same league as those two? No.
 6 years ago '04        #58
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man when you at the top it doesn't make sense to get down in the dumps any more...SHADY IS CRAZY!!!! lol its different...lol
 6 years ago '04        #59
Djkommish6 
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amd actually Jay-Z would be the Mike Jordan or Rap Mike Jackson of Pop...lol JAY-Z???? come on man...Eminem is battling with Jay but jay overall i think has the top rap spot man...He SPARRED with PAC NAS AND BIG...em didnt even do that...he wins by default either way...lol
 10-12-2011, 10:51 PM         #60
bigree61  OP
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damn this is 100% true

he stole young chris whole flow after he got etherd

he gets sucked off so much is because he has money and is acceptable to white people
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