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 6 years ago '07        #121
A-L-P 8 heat pts
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My bad, I a.ssumed you were one of those "BIG is the greatest cause he put out two classic albums, he would be on top forever" type of fans because of your avy. Jay is one of my favs but i think he has fallen off too. Generally, everyone has fallen off. Nas, Styles P and Andre 3000 have probably been the most consistent from the 90's pack.
 6 years ago '04        #122
Ra-da-god 23 heat pts23
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 psylence2k said:
I think Pac is the greatest hip hip artist of all time but his rap skills were nothing special, he really wasn't that great at the technical aspect of rap, yes he wasn't that great of a rapper and yes that's based off technicalities because that's what separates rap from other genres, the delivery of the lyrics. That's what makes rap what it is, the technical aspect and how you execute and deliver, that's what separates it from singing. The one thing that all genres share in common is lyrics, and being able to put depth in the content of the words, that's lyricism IMO and that's why lyricism is applied to every genre of music, it's not about the "technical" aspects because then it would something a little more exclusive to rap. Saying you need to be technically amazing in rap to be lyrical is like saying you have to have an extensive vocabulary to be considered intelligent.

Bob Dylan wasn't the greatest singer, he didn't come up with the greatest melodies , there's plenty of others who excelled more at him than this, off the top Michael beats him in both those categories by far, but he's considered a better lyricist than him, and ppl constantly put him in the top 2 or 3 lyricist in his genre not because of his sense of melody or singing but strictly on his content. Dylan is like Pac in that sense, he didn't excel at the technicalities of the genre nor did he finely execute the fundamentals of singing above his peers but it was for his poetic depth and socially conscious substance that ppl view him as arguably the greatest lyricist in his genre. In this sense he is ALOT like Pac, but rap fans are too narrow minded to acknowledge that there can be lyrical depth in simplicity.

I dont think Pac ever denounced his message, ppl always said he was bipolar because of the opposite vibes of his music, some aggressive and some compassionate, but I never really heard material from him where he took a clear stand that blatantly contradicted what he did before. Your example off how he changed on death Row to me is misguided like many others IMO. He had his conscious material before like Brenda's got a Baby and Keep Your Head Up, and he STILL had his conscious material on death Row, did you not hear Wonder Why They Call U Bytch, I Aint Mad At Cha , Baby Dont Cry ?? Then there's the troves of conscious material released posthumously that he recorded on death Row like Changes, Unconditional Love, Letter 2 My Unborn, Ghetto Gospel, etc . IMO Pac was just as conscious on death Row it's just that his party records blew up so huge and at the time he was trying to annihilate Bad Boy financially so he put those to the forefront for the time being. Pac always had a balance, even before death Row he had party joints like I Get Around. You can't compare his duplicity with Nas because Nas changed directions on whole albums, Pac always maintained the balance, he was always the conscious thug, the compassionate militant.

Your last statement repeats what we've already been saying, Pac wasn't a great rapper, but he was a great lyricist off the fact the he wrote classic lyrics with depth and substance.
with with respect I'm going to have to agree to disagree on the lyricism subject, I guess I see it different from a creation process there are alot of Rules that are exclusive to rap strictly due to how its created over other genres of music IMO this is how I was taught my ear is alot different from just a fan not to be condescending we are all fans but you know what i mean much respect though.

on Pac and his message, no sir I'm not misguided at all I never said pac completely changed himself but only from a commercial aspect the message in most of his Singles warped drastically you can't deny that die hard fan or not and in my heart I know he was just doing what he had to do to get out of prison, I had a book that was in the same footsteps of the resurrection movie pac talked about what he wanted to do in the future I know he wasn't done I think he would have went on to be a great man and Artist even though he's nowhere in my top 10 its just giving credit where credit is do I respected him upmost when he was alive and the year after he died he was in my top 5 but when I started to rap and sharpen my own craft my list changed drastically thats all.

I'm not knocking you for your opinion thats the thing about the greats we could all make a argument of why they are the greatest and be completely right, My favorite is Jay-z Yours is Pac some one said biggie couple cats said Nas its all bout the music in the end ya dig I'm just happy to be actually talking about dope artist on here for a change
 6 years ago '10        #123
Nautilus O 18 heat pts18
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Why in the world are people bringing up 2pac in a conversation about "rapping", this aint about who the being a music artist on some lady gaga tip, its about the emcee. Pac aint a MC he was a rap artist. Big is the greatest MC to ever do it hands down bar none, lyrically and sonically Big always did his thing, Jay is the Greater rapper because he's been so consistent and done so much more the music than anybody else.

Lyrically, Pac aint in the same league as Nas Jay and Big. Its one thing to say "i see babies dying in the street" and its another to paint a "lyrical" picture so that you can envision the actual scene.

When n*ggas say Pac is better than Big that's like saying Madonna is a better singer that Patti Labelle.
 6 years ago '10        #124
uddart 1 heat pts
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 Nautilus O said:
Why in the world are people bringing up 2pac in a conversation about "rapping", this aint about who the being a music artist on some lady gaga tip, its about the emcee. Pac aint a MC he was a rap artist. Big is the greatest MC to ever do it hands down bar none, lyrically and sonically Big always did his thing, Jay is the Greater rapper because he's been so consistent and done so much more the music than anybody else.

Lyrically, Pac aint in the same league as Nas Jay and Big. Its one thing to say "i see babies dying in the street" and its another to paint a "lyrical" picture so that you can envision the actual scene.

When n*ggas say Pac is better than Big that's like saying Madonna is a better singer that Patti Labelle.
Nautilius no one cares what you think, because you are d!ckriding so hard. Wtf do you mean with "Big is the greatest MC to ever do it hands down bar none". You are on of those "its non debatable" fine we know your opinion. But 2pac work during his short time proves he has the upper hand against Biggie. And can Biggie be mention without 2pac?
 6 years ago '10        #125
Hovi Bryant 676 heat pts676
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 Hiphopknowledge said:
Biggie doesn't have songs like I gave you power and Rewind that are creative as fu*k


Biggie doesn't have Dear mama a song that will make a grown men cry


They are all different


Nas and eminem are the most creative storytellers

2pac has the most relabel storys

Biggie has the most visual storys

Everyone has their own opinions, but Big's stories are classics. 20 years from now, I would expect the Hip-Hop community recognizing Juicy as the epitome of what youth in the ghetto aspire to be. While Big doesn't have a "Dear Mama", a lot of his music captures the relationship between him and his mother (Things done changed, Ready to Die, Juicy, Respect, and Suicidal Thoughts).

I gave you power is a great song, but I don't even consider it to be a cornerstone of Nas' lyrical ability or his career. While Eminem has vivid storytelling capabilities present in a lot of his music, most of it isn't even his life. Big introduced raw honesty into his music that made the life of a drug dealer appear the opposite of what a lot of artists glorify. In other words, his stories served a purpose to educate or provide wisdom to youth and outsiders growing up.
 09-13-2011, 01:40 PM         #126
Jamesflames6 
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Jay-Z wouldnt be where hes at now if Big or Pac was alive. #3 at best. Big always was better but died to soon to see where his career would go. He already had hip hop behind him way more the Jay did at the time. Back then it was pretty much Wu-Tang and Biggie vs. The entire West coast! I remeber 1st listing to Jay and ppl was not feeling him at all. I knew he would blow, but not like he is now. But if Big was still here he would only be #2, #3 if we talking Pac cuz Pac was all over the place in his career. Gving lectures, movies, fashion shows, etc. And shout outs or not Biggie aint use nobodys rhymes in his ryhmes like Jay did Biggies. It took the Annie track to make Jay-Z. Big wasnt heere long enough to get to that point. But Biggie the most overrated MC in rap?! Must of be spoken from a youngin! Big's only 2 albums still WAY better then most the garbage that been relased since his death! Also Biggie rhymes been quited way more often by various rappers all over! And hes been gone since 1996! THAT RIGHT THERE SHOULD SHOW YOU DUDE HAD SKILLS. n*ggas still recycling his sh*t from the 90s on a regular basis!!!! If I remember correctly, Jay-Z been trying to get put on, had mentors in the rap game. Biggie was on the block bullsh*tting, spitting for fun and pass Jay then without even trying really! n*ggas was checking hard 4 Biggies 1st 2 albums right off the bat! Took till Vol. 2 for Jay-Z to get that kinda love even tho he did had bars back then too. Just wasnt on Big's level yet!
 6 years ago '07        #127
Escobar97 1 heat pts
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 jslim said:
I take jay over big any day. Lotta n*ggas look at me crazy for that. But I feel like Big gets the same martyr treatment as pac.
Agreed. Dead rappers get better promotion. Big is top 4, Hov is the goat, Rapper or Emcee whatever u wanna call it, all this nitpicking is annoying as fu*k.
 6 years ago '06        #128
marcusaka50 58 heat pts58
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biggie got 2 alive albums compared to jayz 11 albums.

its cool that jay thought he was better than big it is what it is.

but to say jay is better than big I disagree.

jayz evolved over time with the hiphop always changing do to that fact he is still alive.

i'm jayz fan and i;m a biggie fan and Jayz can fill up your cd changer big can't.

you can only judge biggie on the music that he has.
 6 years ago '10        #129
Nautilus O 18 heat pts18
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 uddart said:
Nautilius no one cares what you think, because you are d!ckriding so hard. Wtf do you mean with "Big is the greatest MC to ever do it hands down bar none". You are on of those "its non debatable" fine we know your opinion. But 2pac work during his short time proves he has the upper hand against Biggie. And can Biggie be mention without 2pac?
My son is back on his job

Big is an mc, pac was a rap artist. Its like the difference between Jeezy and Nas. Jeezy is a rap artist, Nas is an MC. If you think lyrically pac verses can go toe to toe with Big's you obviously dont know how to rap and your opinion in null in void.

When it comes to being an artist you can mention pac with biggie, when it comes to being an MC.....Tupac's not even in the discussion.
 6 years ago '10        #130
uddart 1 heat pts
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 Nautilus O said:
My son is back on his job

Big is an mc, pac was a rap artist. Its like the difference between Jeezy and Nas. Jeezy is a rap artist, Nas is an MC. If you think lyrically pac verses can go toe to toe with Big's you obviously dont know how to rap and your opinion in null in void.

When it comes to being an artist you can mention pac with biggie, when it comes to being an MC.....Tupac's not even in the discussion.
Sorry didnt read, your credibility is zero. Pac sh*ts on Biggie and you live in big denial for that. I dont say he is bad or so that would be ignorant. But for you to say it's not a debate its ignorant. Keep listening to the same music kid, u seem to live happy with it
 6 years ago '08        #131
Eagles All Day 87 heat pts87
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 uddart said:
Sorry didnt read, your credibility is zero. Pac sh*ts on Biggie and you live in big denial for that. I dont say he is bad or so that would be ignorant. But for you to say it's not a debate its ignorant. Keep listening to the same music kid, u seem to live happy with it
Is sucking tupacs decayed d!ck, your job?
 6 years ago '10        #132
uddart 1 heat pts
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 The Blueprint said:
Is sucking tupacs decayed d!ck, your job?
No it clearly isnt, is your job hating on every thread that directs any negativity towards Jay-z?
 09-13-2011, 07:21 PM         #133
.aviator.man. 
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thats some super real talk he was sayin
 6 years ago '07        #134
Jayceon 492 heat pts492 OP
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 The Blueprint said:
Is sucking tupacs decayed d!ck, your job?
 6 years ago '08        #135
Illuminati 194 heat pts194
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Camel warriors feeling nice huh? Big > Jay
 6 years ago '07        #136
Jayceon 492 heat pts492 OP
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Jay>big
 6 years ago '10        #137
uddart 1 heat pts
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 jslim said:
Jay>big
d!ckrider
 6 years ago '10        #138
Nautilus O 18 heat pts18
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 Nautilus O said:
My son is back on his job
 The Blueprint said:
Is sucking tupacs decayed d!ck, your job?
 6 years ago '07        #139
Jayceon 492 heat pts492 OP
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 uddart said:
d!ckrider
surprised you took your hands off biggie's wrinkly balls long enough to type that.
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