Album review: 'Watch the Throne' a royal waste :jaydamn:

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 6 years ago '04        #101
EOAE 60 heat pts60
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What I see is that people want these artists to totally change themselves as people.

Jay and Kanye have been talking about money, cars, clothes and all that sh*t from the jump.

That's part of them, it's also part of hip hop.

They want them to turn into Tupac. Either that or they want them to quit.

They want them to relinquish personal goals because "they made too much money"

They want them to talk about the struggle that we've heard countless times instead of the joys of a carefree life that we all really want and is just more positive. We've watched them work hard for it.

Yall the type of motherfu*kers that make people feel bad for their success, feel bad for having goals and wanting to achieve.

Yall criticize Jay for having a life goal of making money because he remembers he had none. Yall forget that he has a family of his own. Ya'll forget that there are people out there who made way more money than him. Jay-Z should stop doing what he does to achieve his goals though?

He shouldn't use people...aka put them in positions to achieve themselves. Jay put Kanye beats on his albums, introducing the world to Kanye West. You know what Kanye did? Took the initiative from there and made something of himself, he didn't NEED Jay to hold his hand throughout.

Beans dropped 3 albums and achieved notoriety. Beans was nasty. I loved Beans. but what he do? Go back to the hood and get in trouble instead of focusing when he got the opportunity of al lifetime. "Beans I ain't tryna change you, just give you some game/to make the transition, from the streets to the fame" Like Beans was with Rocafella when Jay-Z said this. Like it's there.

A n*gga posted a Peedi Crakk song. Peedi Crakk blew a $900,000 album budget. Like seriously?

But I digress...ya'll so ready to take the bad out of everything...
 08-09-2011, 09:56 AM         #102
Silver N Black  OP
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the haters getting they circle jerk on
 6 years ago '05        #103
iggyemu 
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I am not gonna say I didn't expect more lyrically. Both technically (particularly from Jay) and substance wise. But that's not hip hop anymore. It hasn't been apart of hip hop in a long time. And it'll probably never be again. Well at least for artists that want to sell. These dudes took what's hot right now..hot in the last few years...embraced and it did it better than anyone ever has. I am 100% sure they didn't set out to "fix" hip hop or change things. They set out to do it 10x better than the best guy currently doing it. And they succeeded.

As far as the review itself. This reminds of the Entertainment Weekly review of The Blueprint. In fact its eerily similar. It was also written by a white guy. I'll post the link, but essentially the guy faults Jay for not talking about anything other than selling drugs and girls girls girls. Even said the two biggest names in hip hop at the time (Em and Jay) should have used Renegades to talk about something world changing. Sound familiar right?




Look. I'll just say it. Most of these white guys reviewing hip hop listened to it in the 80s and early 90s. When raps golden age began in the mid 90s, I am 100% sure they just stopped. The street narratives were too complex, metaphors flew over their heads etc. When Chuck D made music it was clear what he was saying. Easy to understand. When Nas rapped on Illmatic or Jay on Reasonable Doubt you have to peel back all the layers to grasp it all.

So these guys base all of their reviews on the hip hop they know. Chuck D and NWA and others like them made political music b/c that was the time they lived in. Society dictated that they speak out and defend themselves. That's not the case these days.

So I am not sure what kind of ground breaking, world changing music people were expecting with Watch The Throne.
 6 years ago '06        #104
Kingme 7 heat pts
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 Scan said:
What I see is that people want these artists to totally change themselves as people.

Jay and Kanye have been talking about money, cars, clothes and all that sh*t from the jump.

That's part of them, it's also part of hip hop.

They want them to turn into Tupac. Either that or they want them to quit.

They want them to relinquish personal goals because "they made too much money"

They want them to talk about the struggle that we've heard countless times instead of the joys of a carefree life that we all really want and is just more positive. We've watched them work hard for it.

Yall the type of motherfu*kers that make people feel bad for their success, feel bad for having goals and wanting to achieve.

Yall criticize Jay for having a life goal of making money because he remembers he had none. Yall forget that he has a family of his own. Ya'll forget that there are people out there who made way more money than him. Jay-Z should stop doing what he does to achieve his goals though?

He shouldn't use people...aka put them in positions to achieve themselves. Jay put Kanye beats on his albums, introducing the world to Kanye West. You know what Kanye did? Took the initiative from there and made something of himself, he didn't NEED Jay to hold his hand throughout.

Beans dropped 3 albums and achieved notoriety. Beans was nasty. I loved Beans. but what he do? Go back to the hood and get in trouble instead of focusing when he got the opportunity of al lifetime. "Beans I ain't tryna change you, just give you some game/to make the transition, from the streets to the fame" Like Beans was with Rocafella when Jay-Z said this. Like it's there.

A n*gga posted a Peedi Crakk song. Peedi Crakk blew a $900,000 album budget. Like seriously?

But I digress...ya'll so ready to take the bad out of everything...
I think we all appreciate growth and these 2 artist didnt display that on this album. Money, Cars, Clothes, and Ho's, they gonna be 80 years old rapping about these same silly things. Guess I outgrew these 2 if thats all they plan on ever talking about.

& Why do you want Beans to totally change who he is as a person and not Jay Z?
Weird
 6 years ago '06        #105
Kingme 7 heat pts
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 iggyemu said:
I am not gonna say I didn't expect more lyrically. Both technically (particularly from Jay) and substance wise. But that's not hip hop anymore. It hasn't been apart of hip hop in a long time. And it'll probably never be again. Well at least for artists that want to sell. These dudes took what's hot right now..hot in the last few years...embraced and it did it better than anyone ever has. I am 100% sure they didn't set out to "fix" hip hop or change things. They set out to do it 10x better than the best guy currently doing it. And they succeeded.

As far as the review itself. This reminds of the Entertainment Weekly review of The Blueprint. In fact its eerily similar. It was also written by a white guy. I'll post the link, but essentially the guy faults Jay for not talking about anything other than selling drugs and girls girls girls. Even said the two biggest names in hip hop at the time (Em and Jay) should have used Renegades to talk about something world changing. Sound familiar right?




Look. I'll just say it. Most of these white guys reviewing hip hop listened to it in the 80s and early 90s. When raps golden age began in the mid 90s, I am 100% sure they just stopped. The street narratives were too complex, metaphors flew over their heads etc. When Chuck D made music it was clear what he was saying. Easy to understand. When Nas rapped on Illmatic or Jay on Reasonable Doubt you have to peel back all the layers to grasp it all.

So these guys base all of their reviews on the hip hop they know. Chuck D and NWA and others like them made political music b/c that was the time they lived in. Society dictated that they speak out and defend themselves. That's not the case these days.

So I am not sure what kind of ground breaking, world changing music people were expecting with Watch The Throne.
I agree 100%! Jay and Kanye have always been followers and are always the first artist to d!ck ride a new trend in hip hop. Todays hip hop is suspect, so how could Jay and Kanye not make a suspect album? Its not like they are capable of starting any new trends.
 6 years ago '04        #106
EOAE 60 heat pts60
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 Kingme said:
I think we all appreciate growth and these 2 artist didnt display that on this album. Money, Cars, Clothes, and Ho's, they gonna be 80 years old rapping about these same silly things. Guess I outgrew these 2 if thats all they plan on ever talking about.

& Why do you want Beans to totally change who he is as a person and not Jay Z?
Weird
you comparing beans shooting somebody over some street sh*t...to talking about jay-z talking about money.
 6 years ago '06        #107
Kingme 7 heat pts
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 Scan said:
you comparing beans shooting somebody over some street sh*t...to talking about jay-z talking about money.
Yeah I am. See how silly it is when people don't grow. Its better things in life than money but one would have to grow to figure that out. Just like its better ways to live beyond street sh*t.

You get it?
 08-09-2011, 10:19 AM         #108
Trill Clinton  OP
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Jay has always talked about flossing on his albums,but he also had songs that showed depth and soul.D'evils,Meet the parents,Lucifer,Regrets,and etc but lately Jay Z has been spitting the same "look at my wrist" type rhymes for a minute now,and it's just starting to get stale.The reason n*ggas are trashing the album is the fact they entitled the sh*t watch the throne like it was going to be some grand hip hop altering album when it's essentially Kanye West instrumentals featuring a flabby and sick Jay spitting average bars.When Ace Hood has more depth in his rhymes than Jay Z then that is a problem.
 6 years ago '04        #109
Monoblock 4 heat pts
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 psylence2k said:
I really can't believe that you think the "upgrade" of a materialistic lifestyle makes it any less superficial.

Look past the facade and see the bigger picture for what it really is, there's no difference between the new rappers with escalade on rims , gaudy chains, and video hoes versus Jay/Ye bragging about kicking Louie slippers off on their yacht in st. tropez, materialism is materialism, just because it's materialism that seems so out of the reach of the average hood cat doesn't make it any less superficial.

I dont mind the luxury shyt as long as there's a deeper narrative and the flashy talk isn't the MAJORITY of what's being said. cuz at the end of the day what does that say about Jay and Ye ?? nothing besides they kept that same materialistic mindset that crack dealers in the hood had only difference is that they were blessed with a "legal" talent , so now they're taking their cooning to another level. Making it seem like Only money = greatness, and your main inspiration for grinding is just to get higher class expensive shyt just for the sole purpose to say " I'm better than yall" is some hood **** shyt mentality.

You wonder why Jay and Ye dont act giddy and flashy in the same "way" that regular rappers do ? because they've been removed and put into rooms with jews and ritzy white folk and spend all their time with them now so now their mentality is " ah shyt so this is how you stunt/ball/bling/act/behave on this level , we already impress the hood now lets impress the white folk with our stuntin" . The mentality and concept is still the same idea as the ignorant hood cat flashing his rims and hoes, it's just done on a different level.

I'm laughing at how easily these guys fool you by putting the same picture in a different frame, it's the same thing as someone taking a shirt you didn't care for then slapping a louie vuitton logo on it and all of a sudden you're like " oh man that's some high class shyt "
 6 years ago '05        #110
Bobby's World 9 heat pts
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Scan told the truth. Anybody wanting something introspective from WTT should:

1. Shut Up
2. Open their ears and mind
3. Turn the volume up on "New Day"
4. Deal Wit It cause from a Jay-z in 2011 that's as "stepping out of the comfort zone" as you gon get.
 6 years ago '05        #111
Switchc2390 10 heat pts10
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Honestly..it isn't even the subject matter as to why this album isn't classic. There was just a lot of lazy bars in it. There were some good ones as well..but a lot of the bars were just not as good as they could have been. Add that to the fact that I don't really think the album is cohesive and I know I'm probably not gonna be playing it 4 months from now.

It still was pretty good though.
 6 years ago '07        #112
INFAMOUS 13 heat pts13
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[email changed - confirm acct by email]
Has this d!ckhead every heard a rap song before?
 6 years ago '10        #113
Smoke500 37 heat pts37
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 Scan said:
What I see is that people want these artists to totally change themselves as people.

Jay and Kanye have been talking about money, cars, clothes and all that sh*t from the jump.

That's part of them, it's also part of hip hop.

They want them to turn into Tupac. Either that or they want them to quit.

They want them to relinquish personal goals because "they made too much money"

They want them to talk about the struggle that we've heard countless times instead of the joys of a carefree life that we all really want and is just more positive. We've watched them work hard for it.

Yall the type of motherfu*kers that make people feel bad for their success, feel bad for having goals and wanting to achieve.

Yall criticize Jay for having a life goal of making money because he remembers he had none. Yall forget that he has a family of his own. Ya'll forget that there are people out there who made way more money than him. Jay-Z should stop doing what he does to achieve his goals though?

He shouldn't use people...aka put them in positions to achieve themselves. Jay put Kanye beats on his albums, introducing the world to Kanye West. You know what Kanye did? Took the initiative from there and made something of himself, he didn't NEED Jay to hold his hand throughout.

Beans dropped 3 albums and achieved notoriety. Beans was nasty. I loved Beans. but what he do? Go back to the hood and get in trouble instead of focusing when he got the opportunity of al lifetime. "Beans I ain't tryna change you, just give you some game/to make the transition, from the streets to the fame" Like Beans was with Rocafella when Jay-Z said this. Like it's there.

A n*gga posted a Peedi Crakk song. Peedi Crakk blew a $900,000 album budget. Like seriously?

But I digress...ya'll so ready to take the bad out of everything...
Thank you

I'm tired of the hood garbage. I can appreciate the music for what it is and Jay and Kanye for what they are. They're successful, they're carefree, they're rich...that's who they are. I don't need to hear them pretend to understand what I may be going through. I can pick myself up on my own

Ace Hood's "Hustle Hard" is way more damaging than any "materialism" Jay and Kanye raps about
 6 years ago '04        #114
justinjones 307 heat pts307
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i really don't know what y'all expected from this album.

people talking about thinking that it was going to "save hip-hop" lost their mind though
 6 years ago '06        #115
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Yall ate surprised by this? This is all jay has done for 90% of his career...shallow and vain as fu*k and the warriors eat that sh*t up.
 6 years ago '10        #116
Smoke500 37 heat pts37
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 psylence2k said:
Once again you missed the point . how does any of the materialistic shyt that we are discussing about have anything to do with class and sophistication ?? So if you have millions you can just cop bentleys, G4's, supermodels and all of a sudden you're classy and sophisticated? If you think money automatically buys class and sophistication then we dont need to discuss anymore.

Nobody said that ritzy white folk and jews who display similar behavior as Jay and Ye aren't just as superficial and materialistic as they are, doesn't matter what color you are. and nobody said you have to keep it "hood", where are you getting all these a.ssumptions from??

So now its okay because this type of materialism is a more "acceptable" way of flossing right? Acceptable by who exactly ?? I seriously think you're basing this off a ethnically minority perceived ideal set by eurocentric standard, in other words what black ppl feel they have to do to be "acceptable" and respected by the white man.

Ppl consider Reasonable Doubt as Jay's best album because even tho there was all that talk about champagne, lexuses, movados, and jewelry it was only peppered on the larger narratives of regrets, ambition, friendship, comradery, temptation, guilt, and introspection. Shyt was still egotistical but at least it was egotistical with DEPTH, the Jay-z we have nowadays is a thin translucent shell of what he was back then lyrically.
Actually no one said that...you're seeing it that way because you, like others on here are thinking one dimensional. Plenty of hood rappers rap about bentleys and everything else. Hell...Ross has his "Maybach music" label. My point clearly stated the opposite of what you're saying. I just made the distinction between other rappers with money and Jay & Kanye with money...yet you respond by implying that I'm saying money buys sophistication and class. By this alone you've shown you're incapable of analyzing another point of view in a debate

I spoke on Jay and Kanye's image and persona. No one sees them as thugs, as gangsters. People see them as geniuses, as clean cut, as business men, as lyrically gifted, as non-violent, as bosses. They're iconic figures. This is like Lex Luger vs. Pharrell...cut from different cloths even if they produce music with similar topics. Their status translates into their music and that's why when they rap on their topics it's RECEIVED differently and it IS different.

The very fact that you felt the need to mention ritzy white folks and jews(why you felt to throw that racial dynamic in there idk), and the fact that you said that's the reason kanye and jay are like that tells me that you think that a black person being that way is somehow unnatural. Otherwise you wouldn't have mentioned ritzy white folks and jews...you're essentially saying without saying it directly that they're "acting white"

And how ironic...right after you say "where did I get that from", you talk about what black people "feel they have to do to be accepted by the white man". How about....black people are human beings just like anyone else...grew up in the culture they're in...and are being themselves even if that means being wealthy, successful, and happy about it? That can't be a human or cultural thing...can only be a white eurocentric thing huh?

Reasonable Doubt was great. It spoke on Jay's feelings at the time. Kanye was "Through the Wire" at one point...now he's jumping on award stages and getting wasted.

Watch the Throne is great...it's speaking on Jay's(and Kanye's) feeling at the time. Get over it. Watch the Throne dropped...don't k!ll yourself

 MrIndieArtist said:
when it comes to crack rap ill go jeezy and clipse.

you know how you put a song on and its an old school joint but right when the song cut on your brain trainsports you back to where and when you first heard it.

my only fear is that if i make it to 70 ill hear a jeezy joint from 101 and get taken right back to the kitchen and have a heart attack from reliving the paranoya
This in and of itself is hypocritical

Jeezy is one of my favorite rappers, but only because I can relate to his "motivation" and his feelings on sh*t. I can't relate to him calling women names, or any of the literal violent sh*t he says. But I can relate to his feeling on whatever he's motivated about. I apply his lyrics to my own life

Clipse is good...but they also rap about some vile inappropriate sh*t

Yet you're on here bashing Jay & Kanye for rapping about success and riches?? Yea okay...


Last edited by Smoke500; 08-09-2011 at 10:53 AM..
 6 years ago '04        #117
EOAE 60 heat pts60
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 Kingme said:
Yeah I am. See how silly it is when people don't grow. Its better things in life than money but one would have to grow to figure that out. Just like its better ways to live beyond street sh*t.

You get it?
I hope you're a troll. cuz ur ignorant
 6 years ago '06        #118
davon4204 34 heat pts34
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 Cheeze said:
I feel the same way. The industry is saturated with this kind of talk so much already, what makes jay and Kanye saying it better? I'm a huge Kanye fan, musically and sonically, used to be a huge Jay fan, a few tracks on Kingdom Come was where I stopped listening, but the whole braggadocio flow and subject matter is played out. I'm convinced Jay has nothing left to rhyme about after this.

Album was garbage to me even tho Ye spazzed out on making some beats and went, I felt, to a different level. But even then he messed up some tracks by doing "too much" with the beat.

:agreement6: I've finally heard somebody that knows what he's talkin about. Instead of hearing all these BX Jay and Kanye fans talk about how magnificent the album was when it really was garbage.
 6 years ago '05        #119
iggyemu 
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 jj01 said:
Yall ate surprised by this? This is all jay has done for 90% of his career...shallow and vain as fu*k and the warriors eat that sh*t up.
Come on n*gga. It's not about what he talks about but how he talks about. It's like Em rapping about k!lling and raping bi*ches and using drugs throughout his career. It isn't about the subject matter, just the way in which it's presented that separates great rappers like Em and Jay from the rest of the field.
 6 years ago '06        #120
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 iggyemu said:
Come on n*gga. It's not about what he talks about but how he talks about. It's like Em rapping about k!lling and raping bi*ches and using drugs throughout his career. It isn't about the subject matter, just the way in which it's presented that separates great rappers like Em and Jay from the rest of the field.

how he says it? dont you mean how MUCH he says it? its thrown in your face in damn near every track on every album from him. and yall like this? no emotion, no depth, no creativity, just good production (whoever is hot at the moment), and good features (again whoever is hot at the moment). its corny as hell. he is a letdown making bs like this, on as big of a platform as all the money he throws allows him to promote.
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