Album review: 'Watch the Throne' a royal waste :jaydamn:

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 6 years ago '10        #41
Smoke500 37 heat pts37
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 Cheeze said:
I feel the same way. The industry is saturated with this kind of talk so much already, what makes jay and Kanye saying it better? I'm a huge Kanye fan, musically and sonically, used to be a huge Jay fan, a few tracks on Kingdom Come was where I stopped listening, but the whole braggadocio flow and subject matter is played out. I'm convinced Jay has nothing left to rhyme about after this.

Album was garbage to me even tho Ye spazzed out on making some beats and went, I felt, to a different level. But even then he messed up some tracks by doing "too much" with the beat.
You're reaching

Kanye and Jay are one of the ultimate symbols of success. They had somewhat of a hood background...and yet in the present they're running businesses, companies, and in and of themselves are a bit more classy and sophisticated. It's about context and when people hear them rap about wealth, it comes across more as someone who's made it and are smart business men...rather than some random hood dude in a video happy that he finally got money and throwing money all over the place

In other words a Kanye and Jay video about wealth would probably have them in suits and sipping on wine..or some epic Ocean Eleven kind of sh*t. For most other artists...it would have them in front of a green screen with a bunch of random models and a lamborghini

Different context...and quite frankly Kanye and Jay are more skilled with their delivery and lyrics. You take them seriously

Again let's go over this ::

Kanye + Jay = Successful fully grown business men like icons who can adapt to any environment and isn't super giddy over some money

Other rappers = Dudes who come across as people who won the lottery and are tryna show off

Jay raps about not putting rims on his maybach(too classy), and other rappers rap about the new 26's they just bought. Similar story, different story telling. Some authors are better than others
 6 years ago '10        #42
trex 16 heat pts16
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 psylence2k said:
I really dont think it's nitpicking when their egos are pretty much the overtone of the whole album.
Yeah but you're acting like they didn't have any social commentary, reflections on their pasts, and personal lyrics.

Obviously with two artists as egotistical as them you're gonna get egos on the track. But at the same time there are lots of other artists with egos that make zero attempt to tackle any other subjects.

I'm commenting a lot on this thread cause I'm trying to find out what the actual criticisms are.

And hopefully someone will recommend me better albums released this year in case I'm sleeping on some gems.

Edit: Other artists are free to brag as much as Ye & Jay-Z do. But I don't seem doing much more beyond that. And that's why I'll gladly give Ye & Jay-Z their props.


Last edited by trex; 08-09-2011 at 02:04 AM..
 6 years ago '04        #43
EOAE 60 heat pts60
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 MrIndieArtist said:
no ive been off jay no homo for years now. could see this transition to arrogant douche bag way back when. this man went from hustlin with dame to hustling for white folks. at some point money is just an object. and you got to stay true to where u come from. this man is about as far from where hes come from as anyone ive seen.
I hear you but its about progression. when I think jay its about how far can this n*gga go, hes taking sh*t to new levels. Jay is a person ppl can respect and take seriously. It's cool that its not just for the hood no more, especially when its new ppl out there listening. And if its money to be made somebody might as well go get it
 6 years ago '10        #44
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 MrIndieArtist said:
at bit more grown? thats exactly the sales pitch jay speaks when hes in board meetings "im going to be the rapper with class and youll see a wider audience will listen to me"


Dude...what you're saying is the difference between showing up in an interview in your pajamas or a business suit

Jay and Kanye are musical geniuses/veterans. You can watch a million movies about gun violence, or love, or some other bullsh*t. But a well written one...no matter the topic of the movie can get your respect. Same concept here, you have two artists rapping on a variety of different topics and it comes across as real, authentic, and top notch. Everything from the production to the lyrics, delivery, and hard work is respectable

Jay is a rapper who's grown over the years...and him being a business man is a FACT...not an image. Unless of course you're anti-Jay...in which case Jay is just another rapper
 6 years ago '04        #45
psylence2k 58 heat pts58
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 trex said:
Yeah but you're acting like they didn't have any social commentary, reflections on their pasts, and personal lyrics.

Obviously with two artists as egotistical as them you're gonna get egos on the track. But at the same time there are lots of other artists with egos that make zero attempt to tackle any other subjects.

I'm commenting a lot on this thread cause I'm trying to find out what the actual criticisms are.

And hopefully someone will recommend me better albums released this year in case I'm sleeping on some gems.
The only small amount of social commentary on the album was shyt that was still said in vain relative to their ego and legacy. Its like even when they attempt to try say something deep,profound, or socially conscious they still have to tie it in with how great they are. Shyt just gets too pretentious.
 6 years ago '10        #46
Smoke500 37 heat pts37
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 psylence2k said:
so they should get a pass because everyone else does it ?? I though these were the two best talents at the top of the game ?? occupants of the throne ?? shouldn't they be pushing boundaries, setting the trend, and creating a standard ?? " Every rapper does it " sooo what's that suppose to mean ????


"it's a bit more grown....more elegant. " , and that changes what? because one rapper talks about beamers, video hoes, and ice while hov and ye talk bentleys, models, and G4's it makes a difference in the substance ??? how is that more grown ?? because the shyt is more expensive ?? so Jay can brag about his gucci boxers then say " all of yall can suck my balls through my drawers " ??

How is it nitpicking when their egos are pretty much the overtone of the whole album.
Just because you rap about political sh*t doesn't equal being a good rapper. In fact if anything, this can make people WANT to be successful like Jay and Kanye. It's a much better image than trying to be like Lil Wayne and Rick Ross

And...in a nutshell....yes. There's nothing wrong with their money or success. They earned it...they're smart...and they work hard. That's what I hear in their music...and that's what I hear when I hear them talk about their lifestyle. That is indeed different from a hood rapper with money and if you can't see the difference in context then

It's pretty much fine dining and living a comfortable successful life versus being at a random bbq and chasing random women in your Ferrari talking about how much hoes you fu*k
 6 years ago '08        #47
Arson 84 heat pts84
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 trex said:
Not sure what you're getting at...I've posted commentary about the level of substance in review and there hasn't been much response
The point of the review is that for 2 rappers who constantly remind us that they aren't everybody else, there isn't much here that we haven't heard before, either from Jay & Ye themselves or other rappers. The whole Otis Redding and Chuck Dee segment is directly talking about that. You have 2 greats taking a Otis Redding sample and doing nothing but the typical 6 foot 7 foot / amilli, no hook rambling brag rap to it.

Here’s to hoping that the J & K supergroup can elevate the masses and try a little bit more to reflect Otis heart rather than swag, because they’re too good to be less.
The reviewer is using this to tell us what his expectations of the album were. WTT to the reviewer wasn't as good as a jay and ye album could have been. Maybe you could say he set the bar too high but when the 2 self-proclaimed kings of the game deliver a album called Watch The Throne, is he wrong to expect greatness?
 6 years ago '10        #48
Smoke500 37 heat pts37
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 MrIndieArtist said:
you know what a classy move would be by jay is if he took his billion an changed the city he is from to lower crime rate and raise awareness for communities across the nation that change can be real. you know help the people that made him who he is.

instead you guys equate class with expensive items and not dressing like the average hood n*gga he helped create
Classy huh? No one tells all the other rich singers and business men in America they gotta do that

Jay's successful. If he wants to do that great...but at least he doesn't have the image of a Lil Wayne or Ross. If Jay and Kanye were the main images of hip hop, people would be influenced differently. One out weighs the other
 6 years ago '10        #49
Smoke500 37 heat pts37
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 MrIndieArtist said:
jay selling dreams of turning cocaine into a record label is as detrimental to the community as me selling a rock right off the stove to a pregnant woman
Sure...Jay talks about his past. He's telling the TRUTH about himself...and he's doing that in the present as well even if that means talking about his watch that doesn't tick. His image...mostly isn't that of a dope boy. It's that of a boss who does great business and is a genius in more ways than one
 6 years ago '10        #50
trex 16 heat pts16
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 psylence2k said:
The only small amount of social commentary on the album was shyt that was still said in vain relative to their ego and legacy. Its like even when they attempt to try say something deep,profound, or socially conscious they still have to tie it in with how great they are. Shyt just gets too pretentious.
That's fair but I haven't heard many other artists even bother to attempt.

But let me get this straight, we're blasting them for their egos but when they try to step down to talk about the implications of their lives to their unborns, black-on-black violence, and the ramifications of the choices they made to get to where they are, it's not enough? It's 'pretentious'?

Then why not just have the entire album filled with egotistical raps and judge them on that front?

It's like there's some kind of double standard when it comes it to these two artists. Why aren't other artists, including artists as big as Kanye & Jay-Z, held to this same standard?


Last edited by trex; 08-09-2011 at 02:15 AM..
 6 years ago '10        #51
Smoke500 37 heat pts37
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 MrIndieArtist said:
you guys are nitwits you think cause jay says he has bentleys in a clever way that he is sophisticated.

a sophisticated jay would reflect on the black community and the world as a whole and deliver a real message a la tupac shakur.

instead he talks about not putting rims on a maybach and n*ggas is like thats class
Tupac???

Did you really just refer Tupac as sophisticated??

Tupac...as talented as he was was WAYYYYYYY more poisonous to the black community than Kanye and Jay ever could be. And Jay's rapped about serious topics throughout his career as well. But cmon son...Tupac ??
 08-09-2011, 02:13 AM         #52
Dangerously  OP
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 MrIndieArtist said:
and please dont quote a rappers lyrics for credibility.
Wow, you're a bigger Jay fan than you think. Automatically you think your opinion means enough to me that I seek credibility from you. I'm not establishing credibility, I'm smacking you out of the clouds. You're not a child anymore. You're not some n*gga on the block. You have no right to tell a n*gga from Marcy Projects that he needs to go back talking about the same type sh*t he did almost 20 years ago because that's all he knows.

fu*k being the first black man to headline Glastonbury Festival, being a repeat guest of the President's at the White House and the many other firsts that Jay-Z himself has attained as an artist. No, let's talk about how you sold Purple Tops to our aunts and uncles and how you came up Jay.

That's that crab mentality.

 MrIndieArtist said:
no. i dont see it that way. i see a billionaire whose made his living off of people. ordinary people. and given them back 70 dollars jeans, 15 dollar cds, alcohol products, and albums talking about how rich he is. as a black man in america i think its time jay went back on his line about rhyming like common sense and actually rhyme like common and do something uplifting. but hey a billion is not enough. lets all just watch the throne like some peons
Jay doesn't owe you or anyone else sh*t. He gave you music. If you don't appreciate it, then don't listen to it. Period. Maybe it's good you're not a fan anymore.
 6 years ago '10        #53
Fly Elroy 321 heat pts321
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the album is called watch the throne, what did the reviewer expect? of course it was going to be ego-driven, self-serving and arrogant.

however, I think the music is compromised by "wanting to sell" and "do numbers" instead of making a whole album that common folks can relate to. the demographic that are going to buy their music now is not the same demographic that bought their music in the past, but it really shouldn't matter who buys your music, you should make music not to sell but to preserve "hip hop".

when I heard "the joy" last year I thought that this album was going to have that vintage hip hop feel. but it only became a bonus track and was entirely different to what the album became.

in conclusion, I think rap music is the only music where the top artists need to talk about their wealth all the time. when I look at other genres they don't need to brag about their riches to sell their product. I feel like if jay and kanye wanted, they could've brought hip hop back to where it used to be before the bling bling rap took over.
 6 years ago '10        #54
Smoke500 37 heat pts37
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 MrIndieArtist said:
you would think that jay would have his fans best interest seeing as tho thats who he owes everything to.

but hey lets just watch the throne cause these "rappers" command are respect

yo jay when that new rocawear line droppin i need me some crisp 95 dollar jeans
And what is his fans best interest??

His fans best interest is Jay and his music...from Reasonable Doubt to where he is now. He's an icon of success. People want to be as successful as him...to do business like him...to live a peaceful life with a bad broad on a yacht somewhere in France rather than in the hood

It'd be noble of him to do more...but he's earned what he is. Now if the motherfu*ker didn't want to pay his taxes..or complained about paying more taxes then I'd give him this look
 6 years ago '04        #55
psylence2k 58 heat pts58
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 Smoke500 said:
You're reaching

Kanye and Jay are one of the ultimate symbols of success. They had somewhat of a hood background...and yet in the present they're running businesses, companies, and in and of themselves are a bit more classy and sophisticated. It's about context and when people hear them rap about wealth, it comes across more as someone who's made it and are smart business men...rather than some random hood dude in a video happy that he finally got money and throwing money all over the place

In other words a Kanye and Jay video about wealth would probably have them in suits and sipping on wine..or some epic Ocean Eleven kind of sh*t. For most other artists...it would have them in front of a green screen with a bunch of random models and a lamborghini

Different context...and quite frankly Kanye and Jay are more skilled with their delivery and lyrics. You take them seriously

Again let's go over this ::

Kanye + Jay = Successful fully grown business men like icons who can adapt to any environment and isn't super giddy over some money

Other rappers = Dudes who come across as people who won the lottery and are tryna show off

Jay raps about not putting rims on his maybach(too classy), and other rappers rap about the new 26's they just bought. Similar story, different story telling. Some authors are better than others

I really can't believe that you think the "upgrade" of a materialistic lifestyle makes it any less superficial.

Look past the facade and see the bigger picture for what it really is, there's no difference between the new rappers with escalade on rims , gaudy chains, and video hoes versus Jay/Ye bragging about kicking Louie slippers off on their yacht in st. tropez, materialism is materialism, just because it's materialism that seems so out of the reach of the average hood cat doesn't make it any less superficial.

I dont mind the luxury shyt as long as there's a deeper narrative and the flashy talk isn't the MAJORITY of what's being said. cuz at the end of the day what does that say about Jay and Ye ?? nothing besides they kept that same materialistic mindset that crack dealers in the hood had only difference is that they were blessed with a "legal" talent , so now they're taking their cooning to another level. Making it seem like Only money = greatness, and your main inspiration for grinding is just to get higher class expensive shyt just for the sole purpose to say " I'm better than yall" is some hood **** shyt mentality.

You wonder why Jay and Ye dont act giddy and flashy in the same "way" that regular rappers do ? because they've been removed and put into rooms with jews and ritzy white folk and spend all their time with them now so now their mentality is " ah shyt so this is how you stunt/ball/bling/act/behave on this level , we already impress the hood now lets impress the white folk with our stuntin" . The mentality and concept is still the same idea as the ignorant hood cat flashing his rims and hoes, it's just done on a different level.

I'm laughing at how easily these guys fool you by putting the same picture in a different frame, it's the same thing as someone taking a shirt you didn't care for then slapping a louie vuitton logo on it and all of a sudden you're like " oh man that's some high class shyt "


Last edited by psylence2k; 08-09-2011 at 02:24 AM..
 6 years ago '04        #56
EOAE 60 heat pts60
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 MrIndieArtist said:
jay selling dreams of turning cocaine into a record label is as detrimental to the community as me selling a rock right off the stove to a pregnant woman
It's about getting ppl to actually have some ambition...some goal..that's a detail, look at the bigger picture.

"I tried to show ppl how to be kings and they wanna be soldiers"


I can understand if ppl think hes bullsh*ttin but who else is really putting out ideas like that for ppl to really contemplate.
 6 years ago '10        #57
Smoke500 37 heat pts37
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People always talk about back in the day Hip Hop. The truth is that Hip Hop wasn't as healthy for everyone else either. Fck the Police? A bunch of hood songs? If anything....Hip Hop now reflects growth from that. If you wanna complain about Hip Hop not being diverse enough fine. But Hip Hop should reflect all aspects of the black community and anyone who struggles in general. From those who've made it(like Kanye and Jay) to those who grew up with hard times...to confused and crazy psychotic teens(like Tyler the Creator).

Hip Hop just needs to be diverse. But the Hip Hop most of you want to remain will only stay if people continue to struggle. And people are struggling right now...but there's still more education and wealth than ever before. Diversity
 08-09-2011, 02:21 AM         #58
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 MrIndieArtist said:
jay selling dreams of turning cocaine into a record label is as detrimental to the community as me selling a rock right off the stove to a pregnant woman
Hov did that so you didn't have to go through that.

Oops, there goes my credibility.
 6 years ago '10        #59
Smoke500 37 heat pts37
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 MrIndieArtist said:
jays whole catalog up untill the black album was gangster filled crap and dopeboy sh*t. he made his millions off of the same crap ross is pushing right now. and then he flipped to watch the throne im rich as fu*k now i got classs.

its hysterical


Dude...when was Jay ever seen as a "thug" or "gangster" ??

Lol. Even when he was a bit more "hood"...I don't remember anyone thinking or saying "Yo Jay's gangster". Seriously dude

Anyway...Jay has continued to grow and become more successful over the years. So using your logic that would still explain the change in subject matter
 08-09-2011, 02:23 AM         #60
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Jay should of just made a solo album.

The tour is going to be fu*king weird

It's going to go from some queer fest musical with Kanye twirling around like a ballerina on acid while singing All Of The Lights and then it's gonna hit to Jay wearing his hat just spitting rhymes.

It's going to go from a thug perspective to a musical to Kanye having his emo moments two or three times throughout the concert.
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