Album review: 'Watch the Throne' a royal waste :jaydamn:

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 6 years ago '10        #181
Nautilus O 18 heat pts18
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 Arson said:
Why are you using mature? Jay is undeniably the master of adaptation but maturity? Far from it. Just like Psylence was talking about, Jay's materialism is the same as its always been. He traded up from the E class to a Maybach, from throwbacks to tailor-made suits, and Nike to red bottom LVs. Despite upping the price tags, it's still the same money, cash, hoes rap. Only complacency took away that edge and his more recent work doesn't have the same impact. Jay was maturing with TBA; the flow was impeccable, the delivery was untouchable, and he was doing lyrical exercises in a hyperbolic time chamber on his peers.

He hasn't matured since then, he's regressed. Now had he came back consistently dropping sh*t like this



I'd say yeah, he's matured. But he's rapping at a level way below where he should be. Jay still being on top while dumbing down speaks volumes about where he was as a rapper. So nah, I can't agree with using matured when talking current Jay. What Jay does now is show signs of maturing but not committing to it full time. He's in his "I still got it" phase.
Money Cash Hoes talk? What rapper you know doesn't? Jay's 40, birdman's out here talking about buying 2-3 million dollars cars, Jay's talking about copping million dollar paintings, watches that appreciate with value, visiting places outside of the bahamas. That's maturity, wanting the finer things in life is not immature, immature is rapping like you still do the things you did as a teenager as 40 yr old man.

Would I love to hear Jay bring back that reasonable doubt flow, definitely, but for Jay to be rapping about the same things he did on Reasonable would be frauding. Just like he says on the album he's the only rapper that only raps about what he actually does. That's maturity. He doesn't need to be making freedom f!ghter songs the whole album. Lupe is the best rapper alive IMO, and no one appreciates his lyrics, why should Jay have to go back to that to be accepted

I'm amazed that n*ggas in here actually were mad at them for bragging about the money they make and the outrageous sh*t they do, but then turn around and support n*ggas who rap about shooting up blocks, selling drugs, driving cars they only see on tv, and drinking lean. I guess if you can relate too it you find it more entertaining. The maturity is getting passed that and showing that with hard work you can get here too. I remember kanye coming up and never would I imagined that he would be as big as he is today. You work that hard you deserves to enjoy your success. On the other hand you dudes like Waka Flocka that say they wanna retire and they shouldnt even be in the game anyway.

Fukk it rap is through, there will never be another classic album because there are too many voices out here that don't appreciate what they are getting. Hov on Made in America....if you can't listen to that and say damn....this type of Music aint for you
 6 years ago '06        #182
Kingme 7 heat pts
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 Karamu said:
you want Jay to STILL rap how he did before?

a billionaire rapping Coming Of Age and Where I'm From?

his substance is usually one dimensional for the most part now, but what the fu*k is he gonna rap about?

who else is up there as the richest rappers with Hov? Diddy? 50 Cent? Birdman? what are they rapping about..

its a surprise hes still making songs like New Day and No Church
What is he going to Rap about? Are you serious? fu*k it, if Jay don't have nothing else to rap about he should retire, his old rhymes about money are better than his new rhymes about money.

On the reals, listen to this Jay track, it sh*ts on Watch The Throne. Notice how he raps about the pitfalls of success from a throne. He coulda did so much more with this album but I guess these kinda rhymes dont pay. I get it. How Dissapointing.



[video - click to view]

 6 years ago '06        #183
Kingme 7 heat pts
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 Nautilus O said:
Money Cash Hoes talk? What rapper you know doesn't? Jay's 40, birdman's out here talking about buying 2-3 million dollars cars, Jay's talking about copping million dollar paintings, watches that appreciate with value, visiting places outside of the bahamas. That's maturity, wanting the finer things in life is not immature, immature is rapping like you still do the things you did as a teenager as 40 yr old man.

Would I love to hear Jay bring back that reasonable doubt flow, definitely, but for Jay to be rapping about the same things he did on Reasonable would be frauding. Just like he says on the album he's the only rapper that only raps about what he actually does. That's maturity. He doesn't need to be making freedom f!ghter songs the whole album. Lupe is the best rapper alive IMO, and no one appreciates his lyrics, why should Jay have to go back to that to be accepted

I'm amazed that n*ggas in here actually were mad at them for bragging about the money they make and the outrageous sh*t they do, but then turn around and support n*ggas who rap about shooting up blocks, selling drugs, driving cars they only see on tv, and drinking lean. I guess if you can relate too it you find it more entertaining. The maturity is getting passed that and showing that with hard work you can get here too. I remember kanye coming up and never would I imagined that he would be as big as he is today. You work that hard you deserves to enjoy your success. On the other hand you dudes like Waka Flocka that say they wanna retire and they shouldnt even be in the game anyway.

Fukk it rap is through, there will never be another classic album because there are too many voices out here that don't appreciate what they are getting. Hov on Made in America....if you can't listen to that and say damn....this type of Music aint for you
I guess Im just guilty for holding Jay to a higher standard than BirdMan and other club cash in ringtone rappers. I didnt know Jay was on the same level as those artist, I've always considered him...better than that.
 6 years ago '10        #184
Nautilus O 18 heat pts18
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 Kingme said:
I guess Im just guilty for holding Jay to a higher standard than BirdMan and other club cash in ringtone rappers. I didnt know Jay was on the same level as those artist, I've always considered him...better than that.
Nobody in the rap game could have made this album, that's the problem with expectations in rap. Pac aint ever been a lyricist but if Pac came out with a song going at a artist it was automatically a hot song just because he was taking shots. Jay-Z comes out with an album that sounds nothing like anything out right now and snapped on the records that needed to be snapped on he's not meeting his mark.

No artist in rap can go

Got the oversized Rolley let me show thee how to do it
When I say it then you see, it ain't only in the music
Basquiats, Warhols serving as my muses
My house like a museum so I see 'em when I'm peeing
Usually you have this much taste you European
That's the end of that way of thinking, n*gga never again
Know when to leave when the heat is coming I learned that
This is where DiNero would be if he ain't turn back
fu*k Sosa, this Hova this is real life
This is what the ending of Scarface should feel like

and you actually believe it
 6 years ago '06        #185
Kingme 7 heat pts
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 Nautilus O said:
Nobody in the rap game could have made this album, that's the problem with expectations in rap. Pac aint ever been a lyricist but if Pac came out with a song going at a artist it was automatically a hot song just because he was taking shots. Jay-Z comes out with an album that sounds nothing like anything out right now and snapped on the records that needed to be snapped on he's not meeting his mark.

No artist in rap can go

Got the oversized Rolley let me show thee how to do it
When I say it then you see, it ain't only in the music
Basquiats, Warhols serving as my muses
My house like a museum so I see 'em when I'm peeing
Usually you have this much taste you European
That's the end of that way of thinking, n*gga never again
Know when to leave when the heat is coming I learned that
This is where DiNero would be if he ain't turn back
fu*k Sosa, this Hova this is real life
This is what the ending of Scarface should feel like

and you actually believe it
Nah actually I consider Pac a lyricist and really if Jay woulda had a diss record on this album it would have made things interesting, after all, battling is a part of hip hop. (For the record hit em up was on the how do you want it single and not on an album. The tracks on Makeveli where he dissed people actually fit the tone of the album which is a Classic)

That qoute from the "illest mf alive" was most def a highlight of the album and also dimonstrates how he phoned in the lyrics on the other songs about black cards and maybachs.
 6 years ago '08        #186
Arson 84 heat pts84
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 Nautilus O said:
Money Cash Hoes talk? What rapper you know doesn't? Jay's 40, birdman's out here talking about buying 2-3 million dollars cars, Jay's talking about copping million dollar paintings, watches that appreciate with value, visiting places outside of the bahamas. That's maturity, wanting the finer things in life is not immature, immature is rapping like you still do the things you did as a teenager as 40 yr old man.

Would I love to hear Jay bring back that reasonable doubt flow, definitely, but for Jay to be rapping about the same things he did on Reasonable would be frauding. Just like he says on the album he's the only rapper that only raps about what he actually does. That's maturity. He doesn't need to be making freedom f!ghter songs the whole album. Lupe is the best rapper alive IMO, and no one appreciates his lyrics, why should Jay have to go back to that to be accepted

I'm amazed that n*ggas in here actually were mad at them for bragging about the money they make and the outrageous sh*t they do, but then turn around and support n*ggas who rap about shooting up blocks, selling drugs, driving cars they only see on tv, and drinking lean. I guess if you can relate too it you find it more entertaining. The maturity is getting passed that and showing that with hard work you can get here too. I remember kanye coming up and never would I imagined that he would be as big as he is today. You work that hard you deserves to enjoy your success. On the other hand you dudes like Waka Flocka that say they wanna retire and they shouldnt even be in the game anyway.

Fukk it rap is through, there will never be another classic album because there are too many voices out here that don't appreciate what they are getting. Hov on Made in America....if you can't listen to that and say damn....this type of Music aint for you
You're rambling brah. I don't want him to go back to the RD flow, I want him to bring the flow and delivery back up to TBA era caliber. I don't listen to waka and I don't hold drug rap and club rap artist in high regard. I don't like that money has become the main topic of his verses now. On TBA the money talk was at a minimum. Ever since KC the money has become the main course of jay's raps.

Jay's turned into a standard rapper. Way too much brag rap, way too much watch talk, way too much of the sh*t that Jay was beyond

So I ball so hard mothafu*kas want to fine me
First n*ggas got to find me
What's 50 grand to a motherfu*ker like me
Can you please remind me?
Ball so hard, this sh*t crazy, y'all know that don't sh*t phase me
The Nets could go 0 for 82 and I look at you like this sh*t gravy
Ball so hard this sh*t weird, we ain't even supposed to be here
Ball so hard since we here, it's only right that we'd be fair
Psycho: I'm liable to go Michael, take your pick
Jackson, Tyson, Jordan, Game 6
Ball so hard got a broke clock, Rolleys that don't tick tock
Audemars that's losing time, hidden behind all these big rocks
Ball so hard I'm shocked too, I'm supposed to be locked up too
If you escape what I've escaped, you'd be in Paris getting fu*ked up too
Ball so hard let’s get faded, Le Meurice for like 6 days
Gold bottles, scold models, spillin’ Ace on my sick J’s
Ball so hard bi*ch behave, just might let you meet Ye
Chi towns D. Rose, I’m movin’ the Nets to BK

thats jay breh?

change clothes, the weakest joint on TBA

Yeah ma, your dude is back, Maybach coupe is back
Tell the whole world the truth is back
You ain't got to argue about who could rap
Cause the proof is back just go through my rap
New York New York yeah where my troopers at
Where my hustlers where my boosters at
I don't care what you do for stacks
I know the world glued you back to the wall
You gotta brawl to that
I been through that, been shot at shoot back
Gotta keep a peace like a Buddhist
I ain't a New Jack nobody 'gon Wesley Snipe me
It's less than likely, move back
Let I breathe Jedi knight
The more space I get the better I write
(Oh) Never I write, but, if, ever I write
I need the space to say whatever I like, now just


you see the difference?


Last edited by Arson; 08-09-2011 at 10:44 PM..
 6 years ago '06        #187
Storchaveli 94 heat pts94
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Camel stans shook trying to discredit a review because of how the reviewer looks = desperate as fu*k/FAIL.



Camel lost. He has no depth and all he can rap on is that same "I'm so good" sh*t.
 6 years ago '06        #188
Storchaveli 94 heat pts94
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 MrIndieArtist said:
no ive been off jay no homo for years now. could see this transition to arrogant douche bag way back when. this man went from hustlin with dame to hustling for white folks. at some point money is just an object. and you got to stay true to where u come from. this man is about as far from where hes come from as anyone ive seen.
Ether.
 6 years ago '04        #189
psylence2k 58 heat pts58
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 vickfan said:
Here's my qualm with psylence -
is materialism a knock on the album? In a larger sense obviously materialism is going to lead to nothing less than the end of the world(via global warming, no nwo bs here)
But if we can kind of scale down what we're looking at, can't materialism be a positive thing in some sense? After all, these are people that found a "legal hustle" and are pointing out, hey, find your legal hustle and you can be up here too.
True, materialism can be considered shallow, but perhaps the ends justifies the means - if people decide they want to achieve so that they can lose 30 mill and spend another 30, is that a bad thing if it results in more Black people achieving and placing themselves in a position to act like those demure "Whites and Jews" you talked about?
The reason they act like that is because having money isn't new to them. The only way we're going to be able to get to the position where having money isn't new to us...is making it so having money isn't new to us. To that end, I think an album like this pushes us in a positive direction.
Materialism isn't bad when it's used as frosting but not as cake. A cake in general is like what? 90% cake and 10 % frosting ? Now imagine eating a cake that was 90% frosting and 10% cake. It would taste too rich for most correct ?? It's not very healthy either is it ?? That's what I'm saying here, This over saturation of flashy "junk food" rap that we have on WTT is a taste that many have agreed on here is "too rich" in ostentatious materialism and coincidentally not very healthy for hip hop either IMO. Kanye and Jay have frequently been able in the past to strike a good balance between materialism and spiritual intellect.

The intriguing aesthetic that is Jay-Z IMO has always been the balance between materialism and philosophical knowledge delivered through articulate tales of an ambitious hustler's journey. Jay's signature of creativity has always been the ability to juxtapose those two polarizing elements. Every time he's been able to reach a striking balance he gave us a classic ( Reasonable Doubt, Blueprint, The Black Album ). The flashy flaunting of materialism was simply the "frosting" on the deeper philosophical narrative he delivered about the emotional and intellectual effect of his past experiences. There's barely any of that on WTT. It's just a large over saturation of their preoccupation with their own wealth and egos.

Kanye is similar in being able to meet that artistic balance but instead of a hustler's philosophy he usually merges the materialism with brutally honest and socially conscious narratives, and he's very aware of this too when he's dropping lines similar to the one I mentioned before off So Appalled. There was always a certain integrity behind the peppering of pretentious flaunting but now it's absent and all we have is " look ! I'm rich bi*ch! " narratives, which when said with comical overtones is funny but these guys are pretty dead serious about their arrogance as of late.

It's almost as if Jay has regressed but not even that actually because he came in the game with Reasonable Doubt so he showed us out the gate what he was capable of so I can't even call it a regression or probably not even a devolution but rather a artistic decadence into a state of inferior creativity that we haven't seen from him, which is sad.

As far as your legal hustle statement goes, it would be nice if they did that but that's not what they are doing here, they are not telling you why to get a legal hustle, the process of working at your legal hustle, the adversity,trials, and tribulations that come with the legal hustle. They are simply focusing on the material wealth that comes from a hustle whether legal or not because they really dont even focus on the legal part much as Jay constantly wants to remind us that he's a "hustler" and not a rapper but instead of hitting us with more stories about his corporate hustle he wants to keep alluding back to his drug dealer days. Then you ask is it excusable if it serves ultimately as inspiration, IMO most of the time it isn't. It ultimately tells you to work hard mainly for the riches. We've all seen the destruction and downward spiral of what material greed can do to someone, and it's kind of ironic that Jay said in a interview before that " If you do anything for the money, it'll never work, you have to do it for the love. " but yet this isn't the type of message he's revealing on WTT.


Last edited by psylence2k; 08-09-2011 at 10:45 PM..
 08-09-2011, 10:52 PM         #190
Haze_Reloaded  OP
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 Storchaveli said:
Camel stans shook trying to discredit a review because of how the reviewer looks = desperate as fu*k/FAIL.



Camel lost. He has no depth and all he can rap on is that same "I'm so good" sh*t.
That's all they got.
 6 years ago '10        #191
Nautilus O 18 heat pts18
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 MrIndieArtist said:
no i want him to talk to the kids who are going through the same situations he went through. tell them that he is a statistical anomoly and that lifestyle is not a reality. chasing your dreams are fine. but to cosign the drug trade in america is absolutely nonrespectable. one kilo of cocaine destroys the neighborhood in 1000000 ways that u probably dont see. it would be nice if he would send some encouragement to the youth and act his age with the rest of the folks who came of age during his time.common,nas,roots, but nope still hustlin the scarface theme.
"Like I told you sell drugs, No Hov did that so hopefully you wont have to go through that"

What else you want?

Jay-z isnt the problem, if you listen to Jay and you think selling drugs will get you to Paris and have million dollar paintings on your walls you stupid. Its n*ggas like Boosie, Ross, Cam and Jeezy that got n*ggas selling drugs just to but a mercedes or make it down to Miami for a few nights

Funny party is common, nas and the roots don't make the business moves that hov does. So maybe they really haven't come of age either
 6 years ago '10        #192
Nautilus O 18 heat pts18
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 Kingme said:
Nah actually I consider Pac a lyricist and really if Jay woulda had a diss record on this album it would have made things interesting, after all, battling is a part of hip hop. (For the record hit em up was on the how do you want it single and not on an album. The tracks on Makeveli where he dissed people actually fit the tone of the album which is a Classic)

That qoute from the "illest mf alive" was most def a highlight of the album and also dimonstrates how he phoned in the lyrics on the other songs about black cards and maybachs.
Well if thats the case then we really have nothing left to talk about, Lupe Fiasco is a lyricist, Black thought is a lyricist, Jay and Big are lyricists. Tupac is a rapper
 6 years ago '04        #193
psylence2k 58 heat pts58
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 Nautilus O said:
Well if thats the case then we really have nothing left to talk about, Lupe Fiasco is a lyricist, Black thought is a lyricist, Jay and Big are lyricists. Tupac is a rapper
in this guys defense , lyricist is such a subjective term in hip hop, most ppl want to use it to describe ones technical skill on the mic. That's pretty much the only thing that separates Pac from the guys you named is the discrepancy in terms of technical prowess.

Pac is a lyricist as well IMO because I dont use lyricism to relate to one's technical skill on the mic ( multi's , punchlines, metaphors, etc ) but actual substance and depth in the content and subject matter. The technical aspect of rap as I described in above is one that is mainly prominent in rap moreso than other genres therefore if you excel at those things (multis, punchlines, metaphors,)and other lyrical acrobatics then IMO that makes you a better "rapper". Lyricist is something that can pertain to ANY genre of music (rock, country, pop) simply because it pertains to lyrics within any type of song.

So yea, being "technically" better just makes you a better "rapper" IMO for the fact that those aspects are more commonly found in rap than in any other genre, lyricism should've always been in relation to your substance, which I have to agree in that perspective makes Pac one of the greatest lyricists.
 6 years ago '10        #194
Nautilus O 18 heat pts18
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 Arson said:
You're rambling brah. I don't want him to go back to the RD flow, I want him to bring the flow and delivery back up to TBA era caliber. I don't listen to waka and I don't hold drug rap and club rap artist in high regard. I don't like that money has become the main topic of his verses now. On TBA the money talk was at a minimum. Ever since KC the money has become the main course of jay's raps.

Jay's turned into a standard rapper. Way too much brag rap, way too much watch talk, way too much of the sh*t that Jay was beyond

change clothes, the weakest joint on TBA

you see the difference?
Are you trying to say the change clothes verse was better than n*ggas in Paris verse

I hope not. But if you dont like the money talk why listen to him? Reasonable Doubt was a hustler's album Jay's whole career is based off of chasing the money. The fact that he can make songs like Minority Report, This cant be life,Where Have you been, You must love me, and Never Change is show him reflecting on where he came from to where he is now. He has songs like that on this album, but why wouldnt he do the money talk? the album is called "Watch The Throne", what "king" you know thats broke. Hov do sh*t that 99% of us cant do, and you can look at it three ways, "fukk that n*gga I'll never have a rolex", "I wanna get that rolex", or "I want a better watch than that rolex"


TBA era Seriously???? The best lyrics Jay ever gave us is on RD. If you looking for content thats one thing but lyrically Reasonable Doubt is untouchable. But to me the content on WTT fits what the purpose of the album is, they on top of the game and they do sh*t that nobody else can do.
 6 years ago '05        #195
Switchc2390 10 heat pts10
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Rapping about being better than someone else is pretty much the foundation of hip hop. Bragging is part of what hip hop is all about.

The problem with WTT is the bars just weren't that good. The subject matter of the album I don't care about as much unless it was just on some weird sh*t but it wasn't..it just wasn't as good lyrically and musically as it could have been. I feel like there was a disconnect between the two.
 6 years ago '10        #196
Nautilus O 18 heat pts18
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 psylence2k said:
in this guys defense , lyricist is such a subjective term in hip hop, most ppl want to use it to describe ones technical skill on the mic. That's pretty much the only thing that separates Pac from the guys you named is the discrepancy in terms of technical prowess.

Pac is a lyricist as well IMO because I dont use lyricism to relate to one's technical skill on the mic ( multi's , punchlines, metaphors, etc ) but actual substance and depth in the content and subject matter. The technical aspect of rap as I described in above is one that is mainly prominent in rap moreso than other genres therefore if you excel at those things (multis, punchlines, metaphors,)and other lyrical acrobatics then IMO that makes you a better "rapper". Lyricist is something that can pertain to ANY genre of music (rock, country, pop) simply because it pertains to lyrics within any type of song.

So yea, being "technically" better just makes you a better "rapper" IMO for the fact that those aspects are more commonly found in rap than in any other genre, lyricism should've always been in relation to your substance, which I have to agree in that perspective makes Pac one of the greatest lyricists.
That's not lyricism this is a part of the reason why n*ggas who don't listen to lyrics and want to hear simple sh*t think Pac is a "lyricist"

You can say

"We gotta stop the babies from k!lling babies, this world is so crazy, see a body in the street and the sh*t dont even phase me"

or you can say

"This world is so screwy/
my block like Call of Duty and the view dont even move me/
Its a movie, RIP tees for Baby Huey/
and last week a bunch of rugrats got hit up by little Stewie


One is being lyrical the other one is just rapping
 6 years ago '05        #197
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 Nautilus O said:
That's not lyricism this is a part of the reason why n*ggas who don't listen to lyrics and want to hear simple sh*t think Pac is a "lyricist"

You can say

"We gotta stop the babies from k!lling babies, this world is so crazy, see a body in the street and the sh*t dont even phase me"

or you can say

"This world is so screwy/
my block like Call of Duty and the view dont even move me/
Its a movie, RIP tees for Baby Huey/
and last week a bunch of rugrats got hit up by little Stewie


One is being lyrical the other one is just rapping
Lyricism is spitting lyrics. Some spit sh*t that is more complex than other sh*t..but it really depends on what you're looking for.

A lot of artists spit sh*t that I can feel because they spit it direct. They don't sugar coat and they dont put extra sh*t in their bars that they don't need. Guarantee I love something that can make me think or has ill wordplay and says sh*t that hasn't been said in that way before...but all in all I just love dope music.

WTT to me was an average album because in several of the tracks I felt there was just a disconnect in the way the song was orchestrated in the way the sample was flipped/the beat was created and the lyrics/message in the song. Hence why I've basically only replayed murder to Excellence for the last couple days after hearing the initial album a few times through.
 6 years ago '04        #198
psylence2k 58 heat pts58
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 Nautilus O said:
That's not lyricism this is a part of the reason why n*ggas who don't listen to lyrics and want to hear simple sh*t think Pac is a "lyricist"

You can say

"We gotta stop the babies from k!lling babies, this world is so crazy, see a body in the street and the sh*t dont even phase me"

or you can say

"This world is so screwy/
my block like Call of Duty and the view dont even move me/
Its a movie, RIP tees for Baby Huey/
and last week a bunch of rugrats got hit up by little Stewie


One is being lyrical the other one is just rapping
Like I said, you probably come from the perspective that lyrical = metaphors, punchlines, multi's , etc. I just think that stuff makes you a better "rapper" because honestly those things are more exclusive to rap music than anything else, no genre cares about those things as much as rap does. You can be a good lyricist in ANY genre of music.

Substance = lyrical, makes more sense, because "lyrical" definition wise means it pertains to lyrics, moreso WHAT you're saying then HOW you're saying it. I think bob dylan and john lennon were great lyricists because they wrote material with great substance and provocative ideas.

I think the whole lyrical = technical metaphors, rhyme structure, multis came from hip hop heads that were obsessive over technical delivery and wanted to a.ssociate a pretentious term to feel more smug about their preoccupation with technical delivery.
 6 years ago '10        #199
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 Switchc2390 said:
Lyricism is spitting lyrics. Some spit sh*t that is more complex than other sh*t..but it really depends on what you're looking for.

A lot of artists spit sh*t that I can feel because they spit it direct. They don't sugar coat and they dont put extra sh*t in their bars that they don't need. Guarantee I love something that can make me think or has ill wordplay and says sh*t that hasn't been said in that way before...but all in all I just love dope music.
No its not a n*gga like waka flocka is not a lyricist, Pusha T is a lyricist. If you make a wole song saying I'ma k!ll you bi*ch, that's not a lyrical song. I like French Montana and I dont think he's lyrical at all, i also like Beanie Sigel and although they rap about the same stuff, Beanie is a much better rapper because he's lyrical.

Which is why Pac is a good rapper but he's not a lyricist
 6 years ago '10        #200
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 psylence2k said:
Like I said, you probably come from the perspective that lyrical = metaphors, punchlines, multi's , etc. I just think that stuff makes you a better "rapper" because honestly those things are more exclusive to rap music than anything else, no genre cares about those things as much as rap does. You can be a good lyricist in ANY genre of music.

Substance = lyrical, makes more sense, because "lyrical" definition wise means it pertains to lyrics, moreso WHAT you're saying then HOW you're saying it. I think bob dylan and john lennon were great lyricists because they wrote material with great substance and provocative ideas.

I think the whole lyrical = technical metaphors, rhyme structure, multis came from hip hop heads that were obsessive over technical delivery and wanted to a.ssociate a pretentious term to feel more smug about their preoccupation with technical delivery.
Thats not true at all, if you look at classic songs from rock and roll and r&b and even blues. Metaphors and lyrical ability have alway been important

Bob Dylan
Sam Cooke
The Beatles
Michael Jackson

Pac made some good songs that resonated with people but as much as he was into poetry he didn't flip his word play often
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