*Throwback* Jay Z Crying on Hot 97 After Hearing Ether

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 6 years ago '07        #141
KnicksLost 17 heat pts17
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for the hov stans he's been rhyming since '88 and didn't pop till '98 dont hit me with "I gave you prophecy on my first joint, but yall all flamed out" If anything he flamed out.
 6 years ago '05        #142
StateProperty88 34 heat pts34
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 KnicksLost said:
for the hov stans he's been rhyming since '88 and didn't pop till '98 dont hit me with "I gave you prophecy on my first joint, but yall all flamed out" If anything he flamed out.
 StateProperty88 said:
what other artist came out with their DEBUT album at that time and was eating?

 6 years ago '08        #143
DaRokk 74 heat pts74
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 rockho said:
is it weird I don't like either jay-z or nas since their debut albums? I mean yeah they every once in a while drop a track... idk. There's much better rappers than those two clownies. They have ghostwriters. Jay-z makes his money on the side hustles and I lost all respect for nas when he kicked Cormega out of the firm. when he visited eastern ct university I screamed "why'd you kick cormega out of the firm" when he was exiting the place he was doing his show at, and he was getting into his aston vanquish or whatever 200+k car he was getting into.. I wouldn't buy a nas or jay-z album, s'all I'm sayin'. sue me.
so why even respond in this thread
 6 years ago '04        #144
RYLNYC|m 5 heat pts
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 Prophecy_projet said:
Disagree about Nas having one Classic under his belt, he's certainly got one masterpiece. But when a lot of people consider It Was Written, Stillmatic and to a lesser extent God Son important classics to his catalogue and he's considered top 5-10, you cant just have that off one album, he's clearly had more good classical albums, we all know great songs and concepts from there. Its pretty much a fallacy to state that every Jay album is a classic and Nas has one. At the most strictest, I would say Jay has Blueprint and Reasonable Doubt and has made a bunch of very good albums other than that. But so Nas.
I'll give you It Was Written and Stillmatic, fair enough. That's it, if we're talking "at the most strictest." Never did I say ALL of Jay's albums are classics, no need to twist my words. All of Jay's albums are consistently dope for the most part though and critically acclaimed.

 Prophecy_projet said:
You are throwing shade and you just did it again lol. What does comparing Nas's personal divorce to Jay's recording success have to do with one and other? It doesn't really matter if Nas doesn't go platinum again. Have you followed the music industry the past 5 years? Its only like 5 people who go Platinum. Its great that Jay still goes platinum, good for him but for Nas to still go gold and have 10 albums in a 15 year career all plaque? That's still an impressive state especially when he gets nitpicked a lot for his albums.
I wasn't comparing personal life to recording success. I was comparing personal life to personal life and recording success to success. You want to keep misinterpreting what I write, that's fine, but don't try and use it against me in your rebuttal. The point is, when it comes to both recording success and personal life (whatever amount of personal life the media and public knows), it's safe to say Jay wins in both aspects. So again, I say it: OVERALL, Jay won the war. The only argument that can be brought up is music/lyricism, and again, that's debatable on both ends and there are absolutely zero facts proving neither Nas nor Jay-Z as the victor.

Personally, I prefer Jay-Z as a lyricist, artist, and song conceptualizer (for the most part). I still have a lot of love for Nas and his music nonetheless.

 Prophecy_projet said:
I'm sure you don't lol. I'm talking about Gureilla Union. In the Kelis divorce it stated that Nas owns the majority stake in the company that produces Rock The Bells and The Paid Dues tour. The dude organizing all those big acts every year with Chan Wiesberg is Nas.

He also is a producer on documentaries. The Tyson documentary that came out in 2009 and was nominated for an Oscar? Check the back credits on the DVD to see who the Executive Producer. He also smooth things out on that recent Tribe document. He just won a Emmy for his work on the documentary of the Liberian Soccerr team on ESPN back in June.

Add to his endorsments deals which he flipped for album promo (Fila, Akademiks, Sean John) and I would say he has done marginally well for himself.

He may not be an entrepenuer but to say he isnt a successful businessmen when he has done well as a promoter and a producer is a bit of an unfair indictment.

Just because Jay has done it well, doesnt mean anyone else is garbage. Although, can we please remove the NBA Owner credit? The guy clearly has not had the impact as a minority stakeholder to the Nets as Prokorov has as a major. Everything else cool (with the help of Steve Stoute and Damon Dash) but I dont even see how comparing business deals between the two is relevant and even if you do, Nas isnt exactly slouching either.
Okay, cool. Never said Nas was a complete failure. Again, you're misconstruing my post(s).
For me to say Jay-Z is one of the smartest and most successful businessmen to come out of Hip Hop never implied that Nas is a dumbass. I'm well aware of most of Nas's endeavors that you mentioned, but I do appreciate you schooling me on the ones I didn't know.

Is Nas an intelligent and successful business man? Yes, to an extent. Is he as good or better than Jay-Z in that aspect? Not even close. That's my point. Nas is great, Jay-Z is better.

 Prophecy_projet said:
Nas is out here touring and doing his thing and he isnt even losing all his money to Kelis, which he just got reduced anyway. Jay is chilling but you act like he doesnt have to deal with lawsuits over the 40/40 club (hence why the expansion of the club halted and some of the branches closed). But hey, he's got Beyonce...the same woman who's busy beefing with her own father over stolen money as we speak.

I'm neither Team Nas or Jay. I like both dudes but this argument that people use with Jay having money doesnt really fly. I understand you like Jay because he's a brand. Its like kids get into rap and are attracted to the Logo and catchphrase (Wu, death Row, G-Unit, Ruff Ryders...and of course the Roc) and therefore wanna buy into what the artist is selling. But that cant be your only defense or prosecution for or against an artist.
Word? It got reduced? Is he only paying $20K now? Good for him. That's only what? Half of the average American's yearly salary... a month.

To say Jay has problems is a given, his just happen to be a bit more manageable than Nas' sh-t. It's pretty evident that Jay has personal problems, so does Beyonce, so does Nas, so do you, so do I, and everyone else in this world probably.

My argument isn't Jay is better because he has more money. My argument is that overall, with everything into consideration, Jay is the better artist who made smarter moves and trumped his opponent(s). If you want to focus on one particular category (lyricism), you can pick either side and you'd be right, it's not worth arguing over.

I don't like Jay-Z because he's a "brand," I like him more because he makes better music in my opinion. Simple. I RESPECT him though as a brand; Jay is the epitome of 'from nothing to something' -- to go from a stick-up kid in the 80's in the hood to a music mogul who's worth 9 figures.

I don't appreciate you comparing me to these ignorant knuckleheads who're persuaded by gimmicks and f-ckery. I personally like Jay-Z more than Nas for his music, but I can also explain why Jay is the better overall artist.
 6 years ago '08        #145
DaRokk 74 heat pts74
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this topic is yawn worthy by now jeeez come get over it cant NOBODY touch HOV simply put and how you even bring papoose dusty knuckle a.ss into this convo come on sun his caliber is so much lower than these two its crazy bottom line the two people in question squashed this bullsh*t so why cant you simpletons ???
 6 years ago '08        #146
Eagles All Day 87 heat pts87
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 KnicksLost said:
You're a known jigga stan so I'll disregard your comment....bigs been gone for damn near 15 years and still relevant off 2 albums...sh*t I heard mo money mo problems in the club the other day and everybody was hyped



lack of longevity? 2 albums and still relevant is not longevity...the fact that hes still being compared to someone that dropped 11 albums is reason enough...The 90's was the golden era and Jay was irrelevant back then...the mafioso style of reasonable doubt did nothing for him from a debut standpoint...Rae, Kool G, Biggie, Scarface, Az all did it better before him...It was written was 3/4th's mafioso as well and part of the reason why his debut got overlooked....it was a great album but not the holy grail of his catalog. Jigga did not eat in the golden era and post 98 others ate along with Jay (DMX, Yeezy, Ja Rule, Eminem, Etc......)
Lol the pot calling the kettle black. n*ggas never in the HHS unless it's defending his boyfriend nas
 6 years ago '10        #147
uddart 1 heat pts
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 FaceTheGawd said:
Drakes alright...for an r and b singer

Biggies flow was goat but too bad its not the only thing that matters in the whole body of work....Big is up there, much better then tupac, wish he would have had more time to put out some more albums cause the two he released were classics
How can u say biggie is better than 2pac when he had only 2 albums out? 2pac dropped 3 fu*king classics (2 if you dont agree with AEOM) within a year. Plus the other albums. Biggie hasnt enough material to be considered goat imo. Classics is debatable.
 6 years ago '08        #148
Eagles All Day 87 heat pts87
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 Storchaveli said:
You comparing BME to Watch The Wheelchair with Jay's old a.ss = FAIL.

BME is an EP and has a not-so-famous rapper (Royce). Try again. Oh and... Let's see, I'll pick a random track.... Jay won't and can't EVER spit the way Em did in Above The Law.
So what if it has Royce on it, it's till got the great white hope on it ....the same n*gga who farts and vomits on his tracks and u white boys out there eat that sh*t up

Sorry but em past 2003 is horrible garbage, only thing white folks have to hold on to
 6 years ago '07        #149
KnicksLost 17 heat pts17
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 StateProperty88 said:
all those artist that ate in that golden era you talking about was established, of course they are going to eat. jay's debut album came out during the biggest stories of this genre's history. didnt reasonable doubt come out like a couple months after "hit em up", people wasnt clocking for him their attention as well as the media (which is probably most important) was elsewhere. what other artist came out with their DEBUT album at that time and was eating?

edit: its like asking for a bunch of hockey coverage on ESPN during the week of the Superbowl, sh*t aint happening
Lil Kim - Hardcore
The Fugees - The Score
Outkast - Atliens (I don't care if it's not a debut)
Both Mobb Deep albums


Last edited by KnicksLost; 07-16-2011 at 03:58 PM..
 07-16-2011, 03:55 PM         #150
Illstreet 
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 KnicksLost said:
You're a known jigga stan so I'll disregard your comment....bigs been gone for damn near 15 years and still relevant off 2 albums...sh*t I heard mo money mo problems in the club the other day and everybody was hyped



lack of longevity? 2 albums and still relevant is not longevity...the fact that hes still being compared to someone that dropped 11 albums is reason enough...The 90's was the golden era and Jay was irrelevant back then...the mafioso style of reasonable doubt did nothing for him from a debut standpoint...Rae, Kool G, Biggie, Scarface, Az all did it better before him...It was written was 3/4th's mafioso as well and part of the reason why his debut got overlooked....it was a great album but not the holy grail of his catalog. Jigga did not eat in the golden era and post 98 others ate along with Jay (DMX, Yeezy, Ja Rule, Eminem, Etc......)
This logic has always been some of the dumbest sh*t ever to me...

Art is judged by time... Not "Was it considered classic when it dropped?"

Vincent Van Gogh was broke as sh*t and couldn't sell a painting if his life depended on it when he was alive... Now his paintings are some of the most widely known in the world.

When "The Shawshank Redemption" came out in 1994 barely anyone even saw it or gave a sh*t... Now it's widely considered to be one of the greatest films ever made.

I could continue with examples for days...

So this whole arguement and flawed logic about "Reasonable Doubt" not being crowned at the time of it's release is not only extremely stupid... But it shows an overall lack of vision or broad view of art in any real way.

And btw, my statement about BIG still stands... See the Jordan analogy agian... It's just the reality.
 6 years ago '10        #151
uddart 1 heat pts
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I guess some things can we agree on (hopefully)

Illmatic > RD
IWW > BP 1
Stillmatic < The black album
God's son > Vol 1.
Lost tapes > Vol 3.

the rest is less relevant.

Jay-s 2 last albums is trash, got some few joints that is good but overall trash.
Jay-z admitted he lost, fact. No point debating about ether/takeover.

It's unfair to compare them with dead rappers, who could have continue their fame or could have fallen off. So imo Biggie and Pac get a pass.

But if you would compare, Jay-z or Nas wasnt fu*king with them, because both of them were at their prime then. And no one mentioned nas or jay as GOAT back then. Especially not Jay. Jay-z didnt have the balls to be in the same club as pac (no staning, just facts).

And 2pacs unreleased material sh*ts on Jay-z latest drops.

2pac, Nas, Biggie > Jay
2pac, Nas > Biggie
2pac > Nas, Biggie, Jay
 6 years ago '05        #152
StateProperty88 34 heat pts34
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 KnicksLost said:
Lil Kim - Hardcore
The Fugees - The Score
the score wasnt the fugees debut album, i'll give you lil kim to a certain extent
 6 years ago '08        #153
Eagles All Day 87 heat pts87
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Haha dude above me is hilarious.....stop acting like your opinion is fact

And this thread is about jayz and nas not that overrated dead piece of sh*t
 6 years ago '05        #154
StateProperty88 34 heat pts34
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 KnicksLost said:
Lil Kim - Hardcore
The Fugees - The Score
Outkast - Atliens (I don't care if it's not a debut)
Both Mobb Deep albums
mobb deep had two albums before 96 and outkast was already out, you're kind of proving my point homie
 07-16-2011, 04:01 PM         #155
Illstreet 
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 uddart said:
God's son > Vol 1.


So many things about your post were hilarious and wrong... But this sh*t was Chris Rock in his prime right here.
 6 years ago '10        #156
knowlege bass 
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People need to get over this comparison... dudes had a f!ght over a bi*ch, turned it into a battle for domination of the game, reconciled and moved on in their own respective directions. I dont compare them any more, just appreciate the fact that both are alive and still repping and adding to their culture in their own ways. Thee competition brought out the best in both and the real winner was us fans we got slick lines in features, the rejuvenation of Nas and the refocus of Jay with some his best work hidden amongst the filler of Blueprint 2.
 6 years ago '07        #157
KnicksLost 17 heat pts17
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 StateProperty88 said:
the score wasnt the fugees debut album, i'll give you lil kim to a certain extent
 StateProperty88 said:
mobb deep had two albums before 96 and outkast was already out, you're kind of proving my point homie
the n*gga was rhyming since '88 open up for kane and sh*t....the fact of the matter he was irrelevant until '98 and the fact that it took 8 years to get into the business for a guy labeled as the "god emcee" is beyond me and I know blunted on reality was the fugees first LP thought it would slip thru the cracks....if he was better than all these acts during the GOLDEN ERA he would of made some noise is my only point and pac definitely did call him out so that's promotion in itself and still did not bring relevancy to his name
 6 years ago '07        #158
KnicksLost 17 heat pts17
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 Illstreet said:
This logic has always been some of the dumbest sh*t ever to me...

Art is judged by time... Not "Was it considered classic when it dropped?"

Vincent Van Gogh was broke as sh*t and couldn't sell a painting if his life depended on it when he was alive... Now his paintings are some of the most widely known in the world.

When "The Shawshank Redemption" came out in 1994 barely anyone even saw it or gave a sh*t... Now it's widely considered to be one of the greatest films ever made.

I could continue with examples for days...

So this whole arguement and flawed logic about "Reasonable Doubt" not being crowned at the time of it's release is not only extremely stupid... But it shows an overall lack of vision or broad view of art in any real way.

And btw, my statement about BIG still stands... See the Jordan analogy agian... It's just the reality.
that argument is not flawed...it was a good album but not his best is all I'm saying...when I ask my friends who a jigga stans what's his best album they automatically say the blueprint with reasonable doubt after...they're in the 24-30 year old range if you think they're young boys that weren't around when reasonable doubt dropped
 07-16-2011, 04:11 PM         #159
Karamu 
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 uddart said:
I guess some things can we agree on (hopefully)

Illmatic > RD
IWW > BP 1
Stillmatic < The black album
God's son > Vol 1.
Lost tapes > Vol 3.

the rest is less relevant.

Jay-s 2 last albums is trash, got some few joints that is good but overall trash.
Jay-z admitted he lost, fact. No point debating about ether/takeover.

It's unfair to compare them with dead rappers, who could have continue their fame or could have fallen off. So imo Biggie and Pac get a pass.

But if you would compare, Jay-z or Nas wasnt fu*king with them, because both of them were at their prime then. And no one mentioned nas or jay as GOAT back then. Especially not Jay. Jay-z didnt have the balls to be in the same club as pac (no staning, just facts).

And 2pacs unreleased material sh*ts on Jay-z latest drops.

2pac, Nas, Biggie > Jay
2pac, Nas > Biggie
2pac > Nas, Biggie, Jay
Vol. 3 is easily Jay's worst album, theres no need to bring that up, and Vol. 1 isn't one of his best albums either. and Jay's last two albums are trash? how can someone hate on American Gangster? that album was crack all the way through except for maybe Hello Brooklyn 2.0. No doubt in his top 4 albums. Blueprint 3 was a 6/10 album, songs like A Star Is Born, Thank You, D.O.A., and So Ambitious prevent it from being complete garbage. also link me where Jay said he lost? dude just recently said Takeover was 10000 times better than Ether and trashed the Ether beat.

Illmatic > Reasonable Doubt
The Blueprint = It Was Written
The Black Album > Gods Son
American Gangster > Stillmatic(overrated on forums like these)

Illmatic is better than anything Pac could imagine to make dead or alive, Ready To Die is probably in my top 5 also but imo it still doesn't touch Illmatic. Biggie had 2 albums and his sophomore LP isn't nearly in the same level as his debut. Pac and BIG were kings at the time, but Jay-Z has remained relevant in music for 15 straight years, even during his retirement he sold 2 platinum records. BIG made more impact than any of the other 3 could have, but ain't no one gonna be GOAT with 2 albums, especially when the second isn't amazing. and i can't place a dude with mediocre skills as an MC on top of them just because hes deep. Even if Nas isn't too relevant in music right now, dude had a great run from 94 to 06.
 6 years ago '05        #160
StateProperty88 34 heat pts34
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 KnicksLost said:
the n*gga was rhyming since '88 open up for kane and sh*t....the fact of the matter he was irrelevant until '98 and the fact that it took 8 years to get into the business for a guy labeled as the "god emcee" is beyond me and I know blunted on reality was the fugees first LP thought it would slip thru the cracks....if he was better than all these acts during the GOLDEN ERA he would of made some noise is my only point and pac definitely did call him out so that's promotion in itself and still did not bring relevancy to his name
homie jordan took a back seat to bird, magic, and isiah before he really got his shine, doesnt make him any less great and it doesnt make what he did when those guys left any less impressive

once again during that time it was east vs. west, death row vs. bad boy (which is why i cant give you full credit for lil kim because she had puff and big all on her sh*t), if you werent established or apart of those crews then you werent going to get shine and you pretty much showed it in the albums you posted
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