Top 10 SG's of All-Time

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 7 years ago '10        #81
Nautilus O 18 heat pts18
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 micseles said:
Did you see clyde play? Dude (clyde) was an effective rebounder and scorer all the way through his last game in houston. Im 28 so i got to see him play plenty, he was a monster and i dont see where wade has done anything to get him the nod over him.

My list would probably change week to week if you asked me. Looking back i think Jordan, Kobe, west and Iverson would be at the top because of their overall effect or dominance at one point in their career (rules and defenses were changed for these guys)

And the playoffs this year really have no baring on kobe being on par with mike, mike is without a doubt the best shooting guard to ever play and kobe is right under him
I'm 27 and honestly I can't say i remember much of clyde prior to 1990 but I know from watching a lot of past games that watching Tmac when he was cooking was much more impressive than watching clyde, AI too.

I cant put Kobe at 1a though, he's clearly number 2 or 3, I would say West was just as good at scoring. But overall Kobe isnt in the same league as MJ that 1 & 2 is a far gap
 7 years ago '04        #82
wheezyfbaby 9 heat pts
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 malikmoore9 said:
The problem is you guys defend Jordan's excellence with highlight videos and an unwavering faith that christians have about Jesus. There is no way that anyone will in the history of time be better than MJ in your opinions.

[pic - click to view]

 7 years ago '04        #83
DoctorJ|m 35 heat pts35
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I'm not gonna comment on this for 2 reasons, 1) Yall are mixing up the terms "favorite" for "best", and not even counting any statistics or achievements into your decisions, and 2) thread-starter is insane for trying to claim heads like Wade, Rose, or Roy would be able to survive (much less succeed) in the physically rougher/less-lenient ref days of the NBA past. I mean, come on, if Jordan played nowadays with the tickie-tackie touch fouls & hand-checking rules of the modern NBA he woulda broke "every" record there was to break. And Jordan's not even my the top player EVER to me (that would be Wilt).

Anywho --- for all those that are beefing with the selection of "Big O" Oscar Robertson, and/or claiming he was a PG, you might wanna do your research. He played for the Cincinnati Royals from 1960-1969, his first 4 years he played PG...and then from 64-69, they played him at SF primarily and some SG...and then he was traded to the Milwaukee Bucks from 1970-1974. His first year there he played PG, and when they got Lucius Allen in 1971, they moved Oscar to SG primarily and sometimes at SF, his final 3 years in the league.

So I mean...
60-64 = PG
64-69 = SF/SG
69-70 = PG
71-74 = SG/SF

...looking at that, I'd say Big O played equally or more at both the SG & SF, than just being a PG.


Last edited by DoctorJ; 06-02-2011 at 10:20 AM..
 06-02-2011, 10:17 AM         #84
malikmoore9 
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Considering he tried to immulate most of MJ's moves and go to shots, thats funny you would say that as well. MJ going to the basket with the greatest arsenal of acrobatic layups the game has ever seen >>>>>>>>> any arsenal of moves Kobe has ever attempted. Watch a game tape or highlight reel sometime
Stop this nonsense MJ got his game from the greats like Dr. Jay and Elgin Baylor Iceman George Gervin was notorious for trick shot layups every kid grows up emulating someone. You believe that Jordan was God and he created his own game and never grew up forming his game around other players. Just to prove my point further MJ stole his dunk contest wins from Dr Jay
 7 years ago '04        #85
DoctorJ|m 35 heat pts35
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Hrrrrmmmm...reading this argument just gave me another idea for a magazine article...."creating an excel formula to crown the NBA's greatest by position, using individual stats & achievements, instead of biased opinions, and put-together teams of hype. This should be good, stay tuned!
 7 years ago '04        #86
DoctorJ|m 35 heat pts35
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whoa-whoa-whoa...I mean I'm a HUGE Dr. J fan (hence my name on Boxden)....but if you are just talking about NBA status, Michael Jordan kinda has Dr. J beat on ALOT of categories.

>1st off, Dr. J's statistical prime was in his ABA days, not during his NBA career.
>2nd off, while Dr. J was an awesome dunker/slasher his range was about 13-14ft and within, he never developed a defensive game, wasn't a 3pt shooter, nor ever had a jump-shot game. Throughout Jordan's career he became an clutch jump-shooter, a good 3pt shooter, and was a top lock-down defender many years in a row.
>3rd off, in 1 less year, Jordan noticeably eclipsed EVERY statistical number Dr. J had with the exception of rebounds & blocks.
>4th, consensually, Jordan was the best player in the league (at least) 5 times [5 MVPs], while Dr. J was only once [1 MVP].
>5th off, for the people that believe "the ring is the thing"...Jordan has 6, Julius had 1.
>6th off, and a bonus, during the 6 years Jordan won the Title, he was the Finals MVP (best player), while the 1 Title that Dr. J won, he wasn't even the best player on the team (Moses Malone was).

So like I said...I love Dr. J...but the numbers/awards/honors speak for itself, Jordan was a better scorer, defender, & leader than Dr. J.


Last edited by DoctorJ; 06-02-2011 at 10:34 AM..
 7 years ago '07        #87
deemoney23 15 heat pts15
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 malikmoore9 said:
Stop this nonsense MJ got his game from the greats like Dr. Jay and Elgin Baylor Iceman George Gervin was notorious for trick shot layups every kid grows up emulating someone. You believe that Jordan was God and he created his own game and never grew up forming his game around other players. Just to prove my point further MJ stole his dunk contest wins from Dr Jay
Malik, why do u continue to argue the same sh*t with me?? YOU CAN'T WIN!! Never said MJ wasn't influenced by the Dr. J's, Gervin's, & David Thompson's. What I'm saying was he was gifted and creative enough to take it a step further and create some layups and trick shots that have not been replicated. Yall always say this same sh*t, and I always come back with what I just said. Just Holla at me when u come up with something better and something new
 7 years ago '06        #88
luckluck 17 heat pts17
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 Nautilus O said:
1. Big O was a point guard
2 Big O was a better player than anyone on that list possibly even including Jordan
How the fu*k you know? You seen him play?
 7 years ago '04        #89
Sabotage 9 heat pts
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 adulel08 said:
Top 10 SG's of All-Time.


u know dam well the (edit: Wade Tmac Kobe) would destroy the likes of Jerry West, Joe Dumar, George Gervin, John Havlicek, Pistol Pete, Big O, Earl Monroe.

I dont give a fu*k if guys were lucky enough to be on great teams so they could acheive more. Playing against a bunch of guys that were only in the NBA because they were over 6'4". U know dam well how talented a player is by watchin their game. not by how many chips/acheivements/longevity tho it helps.

Heres MY TOP 10:

1. Jordan
2. Kobe
3. Tmac
4. Wade
5. Iverson
6. Penny
7. Reggie Miller
8-9-10 Ray Allen/Vince Carter/Derrick Rose/Brandon Roy/Ginobli/Clyde/Big O

am i wrong? obviously im in the group of ppl that havent seen much of the older players.

good god youre dumb
 7 years ago '04        #90
DoctorJ|m 35 heat pts35
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Doc J's definitive best SG of All-Time (by stats):

1) Michael Jordan: 30.2ppg, 32,292pts, 6.1rpg, 5.3apg, 2.4spg, 5 MVPs, 14x All-Star, 1 DPOY, 6 Rings
2) Kobe Bryant: 25.3ppg, 27,868pts, 5.3rpg, 4.6apg, 1.5spg, 1 MVP, 13x All-Star, 5 Rings
3) Oscar Robertson: 25.7ppg, 26,710pts, 7.5rpg, 9.5apg, 1.2spg, 1 MVP, 12x All-Star, 1 Ring
4) Jerry West: 27.1ppg, 25,192pts, 5.8rpg, 6.7apg, 3.2spg, 12x All-Star, 1 Ring
5) John Havlicek: 20.9ppg, 26,395pts, 6.3rpg, 4.9apg, 1.7spg, 13x All-Star, 8 Rings
6) Allen Iverson: 26.8ppg, 24,368pts, 3.7rpg, 6.2apg, 2.3spg, 1 MVP, 11x All-Star
7) Walt Frazier: 18.9ppg, 15,581pts, 5.9rpg, 6.1apg, 1.9spg, 7x All-Star, 7x All-Def, 2 Rings
8) Clyde Drexler: 20.4ppg, 22,195pts, 6.2rpg, 5.6apg, 2.0spg, 10x All-Star, 1 Ring
9) Dwayne Wade: 25.4ppg, 13,908pts, 5.1rpg, 6.3apg, 1.8spg, 7x All-Star, 1 Ring
10) George Gervin: 26.3ppg, 26,595pts, 5.3rpg, 2.8apg, 1.2spg, 9x All-Star
 7 years ago '08        #91
primetime 60 heat pts60
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^^^ walt frazier n oscar were PGs....
 06-02-2011, 12:22 PM         #92
sourkush 
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 ramanaa said:
t mac over wade??? explain ur self
Tmac in his prime >>>>>>> Wade

No explanation needed
 06-02-2011, 12:36 PM         #93
malikmoore9 
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Malik, why do u continue to argue the same sh*t with me?? YOU CAN'T WIN!! Never said MJ wasn't influenced by the Dr. J's, Gervin's, & David Thompson's. What I'm saying was he was gifted and creative enough to take it a step further and create some layups and trick shots that have not been replicated. Yall always say this same sh*t, and I always come back with what I just said. Just Holla at me when u come up with something better and something new
This is outright blasphemy he took their game and made it better. He did the same moves except it was coming from a shooting guard. Thats the only thing that differentiated the moves MJ did than his predecessors. Everything Jordan did on the court has been replicated by basketball players since. Jordan was the first SG to ever be dominant in the post game Kobe has emulated that part of his game from Jordan and taken it a step further by getting help from Olajuwon on foot work. Jordan was great but let it go there will be better players in the future Kobe is just the beginning of a long list. You people are as about as bad as white people holding on to the legend of Babe Ruth even after Hank Aaron broke the record
 7 years ago '04        #94
DoctorJ|m 35 heat pts35
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@Primetime...I already explained the Big O case above...homie only played PG 4 years of his 14 year career, so I don't know what other evidence you need.

As for Frazier, did you forget he played on the Knicks as starting SG, 6 years straight (71-72 to 76-77) with HOF PG Earl Monroe. Also counting the 1970 season, those were Frazier's AllStar & prime years. He was at his peak and won 1 of his 2 rings as a SG not a PG.
 7 years ago '07        #95
r.burgundy 16 heat pts16
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$39,846 | Props total: 4831 4831
 DoctorJ said:
Doc J's definitive best SG of All-Time (by stats):

1) Michael Jordan: 30.2ppg, 32,292pts, 6.1rpg, 5.3apg, 2.4spg, 5 MVPs, 14x All-Star, 1 DPOY, 6 Rings
2) Kobe Bryant: 25.3ppg, 27,868pts, 5.3rpg, 4.6apg, 1.5spg, 1 MVP, 13x All-Star, 5 Rings
3) Oscar Robertson: 25.7ppg, 26,710pts, 7.5rpg, 9.5apg, 1.2spg, 1 MVP, 12x All-Star, 1 Ring
4) Jerry West: 27.1ppg, 25,192pts, 5.8rpg, 6.7apg, 3.2spg, 12x All-Star, 1 Ring
5) John Havlicek: 20.9ppg, 26,395pts, 6.3rpg, 4.9apg, 1.7spg, 13x All-Star, 8 Rings
6) Allen Iverson: 26.8ppg, 24,368pts, 3.7rpg, 6.2apg, 2.3spg, 1 MVP, 11x All-Star
7) Walt Frazier: 18.9ppg, 15,581pts, 5.9rpg, 6.1apg, 1.9spg, 7x All-Star, 7x All-Def, 2 Rings
8) Clyde Drexler: 20.4ppg, 22,195pts, 6.2rpg, 5.6apg, 2.0spg, 10x All-Star, 1 Ring
9) Dwayne Wade: 25.4ppg, 13,908pts, 5.1rpg, 6.3apg, 1.8spg, 7x All-Star, 1 Ring
10) George Gervin: 26.3ppg, 26,595pts, 5.3rpg, 2.8apg, 1.2spg, 9x All-Star
no top 10 list should hav wade ova guys like reggie,ray allen,david thompson and mitch ritchmond,and tha iceman was more of a 3 than a 2
 7 years ago '07        #96
Mr.NYCinNC 33 heat pts33
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$9,902 | Props total: 2280 2280
 malikmoore9 said:
This is outright blasphemy he took their game and made it better. He did the same moves except it was coming from a shooting guard. Thats the only thing that differentiated the moves MJ did than his predecessors. Everything Jordan did on the court has been replicated by basketball players since. Jordan was the first SG to ever be dominant in the post game Kobe has emulated that part of his game from Jordan and taken it a step further by getting help from Olajuwon on foot work. Jordan was great but let it go there will be better players in the future Kobe is just the beginning of a long list. You people are as about as bad as white people holding on to the legend of Babe Ruth even after Hank Aaron broke the record


Even tho i disagree with you about Kobe>MJ

i feel what you saying. Most people would get slapped or whatever if they even mentioned kobe is better than MJ but atleast you aint like everyone who puts Mike at the top of the pedestal. some people just say jordan's the best and they dont even know some of the main superstars before him like Magic,Kareem, Big O, and etc.

i agree that kobe is a better offensive player but MJ was a all around better player
 7 years ago '05        #97
micseles 3 heat pts
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 r.burgundy said:
no top 10 list should hav wade ova guys like reggie,ray allen,david thompson and mitch ritchmond,and tha iceman was more of a 3 than a 2
he based it purely off stats.

numbers dont lie but they do decieve. You can take stats and make arguments for every player on the list to be number 1, doesnt mean they are. Things like this are purely opinion based, you could even ask players and they give different list.
 7 years ago '07        #98
deemoney23 15 heat pts15
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 malikmoore9 said:
This is outright blasphemy he took their game and made it better. He did the same moves except it was coming from a shooting guard. Thats the only thing that differentiated the moves MJ did than his predecessors. Everything Jordan did on the court has been replicated by basketball players since. Jordan was the first SG to ever be dominant in the post game Kobe has emulated that part of his game from Jordan and taken it a step further by getting help from Olajuwon on foot work. Jordan was great but let it go there will be better players in the future Kobe is just the beginning of a long list. You people are as about as bad as white people holding on to the legend of Babe Ruth even after Hank Aaron broke the record
REALLY Malik?? Everything the man did has been replicated?? And he did the same sh*t as everyone else before him, but didn't expand it?? What games did u watch?? This man has 15 yrs of film but yet u never saw him do anything different than players before him did?? What's sad is what you just said can be refuted by the actual players that you named idiot! They've even said that's one of the things that seperated Jordan from the pack. The fact that he expanded on the shots, moves, and creativity of the players mentioned before him. But we are suppose to disregard those statemnets cuz Malik said it's not true on BX! Like he stole Dr. J's Free throw dunk, but yet instead of just straight gliding to the rim he pulled it beside his head and double clutched it. But it was the same thing right?? Your blinded hate for the man has now reached a disgusting level. Just quit! You can't win How about you bring up some negative sh*t like how he use to get swept in his early years, or how he was a bad teammate early in his career, how he wasn't a good outside shooter when he came into the league, etc... Something thats factual and not some bullsh*t you made up in your head because u hate the attention that the man gets from fans and the media.
 7 years ago '04        #99
DoctorJ|m 35 heat pts35
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$4,970 | Props total: 210 210
Definitely agree w/ you micseles...Opinions are opinions. But when I do things like these I try to use STATs to be unbiased. True, numbers and stats can be scewed, but Number still don't lie and are if they aren't scewed they are VERY measurable...Plus, I personally think people are getting their "favorites" list mixed up with what is the "best" list. Same with music, for me at least, the "best" = biggest stats + most successful + honors/recognition.

Same goes out to R.Burgundy. I don't hate Wade, but I do dislike giving his respect yet at least...BUT, the stats and achievements are there and don't lie. I mean...let's look at Reggie Miller's stat-line.

Reggie Miller: 18.3ppg, 25,279pts, 3.0rpg, 3.0apg, 1.1spg, & 5x All-Star.

Very nice & respectable, and being a big Knicks-hater, I enjoyed pulling for Miller alot as a kid...BUT, his numbers are definitely not deserving of removing anyone off of my top 10 list. He's has NO Rings, NO MVPs, NO All-NBA 1st Team Selections, NO All-Def Team Selections. It's kinda hard to move him up in ranking when there were a HANDFUL of SGs during "his own era that were statistically/successfully better", let alone all other eras in NBA history. Still a big Reggie-fan...but come on, smarter up, the proof is there.


Last edited by DoctorJ; 06-02-2011 at 02:01 PM..
 06-02-2011, 02:02 PM         #100
malikmoore9 
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REALLY Malik?? Everything the man did has been replicated?? And he did the same sh*t as everyone else before him, but didn't expand it?? What games did u watch?? This man has 15 yrs of film but yet u never saw him do anything different than players before him did?? What's sad is what you just said can be refuted by the actual players that you named idiot! They've even said that's one of the things that seperated Jordan from the pack. The fact that he expanded on the shots, moves, and creativity of the players mentioned before him. But we are suppose to disregard those statemnets cuz Malik said it's not true on BX! Like he stole Dr. J's Free throw dunk, but yet instead of just straight gliding to the rim he pulled it beside his head and double clutched it. But it was the same thing right?? Your blinded hate for the man has now reached a disgusting level. Just quit! You can't win How about you bring up some negative sh*t like how he use to get swept in his early years, or how he was a bad teammate early in his career, how he wasn't a good outside shooter when he came into the leaguue, etc... Something thats factual and not some bullsh*t you made up in your head because u hate the attention that the man gets from fans and the media.

Watch the video son the only difference like I told you before was that Jordan was only 6'6 doing the same moves.


[video - click to view]

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