Kobe vs Jordan vs LeBron vs Durant - discussion thread (will be merged here)

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 6 years ago '12        #781
Fearless Genius 72 heat pts72
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 Galactus said:
so age trumps basketball experience in your feeble mind.

kid youre retarded go away.
you don't understand. i'm not arguing whether age is more important than experience. i'm saying comparing players at the same age is a more fair comparison. it's not fair to compare a rookie jordan to a rookie lebron when there is nearly a 3 year age difference. we shouldn't penalize lebron when comparing him to jordan for being good enough to skip college while jordan wasn't good enough to do the same. in the same way you shouldn't penalize kobe. age comparisons make more sense than experience comparisons.




  147 - 42 STRK: 5 w in a row WIN PCT: 77% 29 (0) 
  Career: | Aug 17: 97-57, Rank #29 | Aug 16: 2-0, Rank #224 | Aug 14: 11-8, Rank #285 | Aug 13: 1-0, Rank #480 *


Last edited by Fearless Genius; 07-13-2012 at 06:22 AM..
 07-13-2012, 06:31 AM         #782
Youngin19  OP
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 EnlightenMe said:
you are way too eager to respond without reading what i said. i didn't say anything to that degree. in my first post in this thread, i said lbj was still better statistically but the comparison would be more respectable. almost a year difference matters at that age. i mean kobe had a 7 point increase from his first year to his second year. i think it matters.
Hold up, Kobe was born in August in 1978 and came in the league in 1996...season starts in October...he was 18


Last edited by Youngin19; 07-13-2012 at 06:37 AM..
 6 years ago '11        #783
MakeItHappen456 43 heat pts43
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30M/YR, Five Rings !
 6 years ago '12        #784
Fearless Genius 72 heat pts72
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 Youngin19 said:
Hold up, Kobe was born in August in 1978 and came in the league in 1996...season starts in October...he was 18
yea and lebron turned 19 early in his rookie season. again, i want to emphasize to everybody, i am not saying kobe was better or even equal to lebron in the very early parts in their respective careers. i'm just saying it's more fair to compare them at the same age.




  147 - 42 STRK: 5 w in a row WIN PCT: 77% 29 (0) 
  Career: | Aug 17: 97-57, Rank #29 | Aug 16: 2-0, Rank #224 | Aug 14: 11-8, Rank #285 | Aug 13: 1-0, Rank #480 *


Last edited by Fearless Genius; 07-13-2012 at 06:50 AM..
 6 years ago '11        #785
PrimeTimeJones3 11 heat pts11
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 Rico23 said:
stans tring to out-stan each other...


[pic - click to view]

this debate will never end...

just sit back and laugh like I do most of the time
 07-13-2012, 07:17 AM         #786
Youngin19  OP
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 EnlightenMe said:
yea and lebron turned 19 early in his rookie season. again, i want to emphasize to everybody, i am not saying kobe was better or even equal to lebron in the very early parts in their respective careers. i'm just saying it's more fair to compare them at the same age.
I disagree...both of em came straight out of high school. Neither one was more experienced than the other
 6 years ago '12        #787
Fearless Genius 72 heat pts72
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 Youngin19 said:
I disagree...both of em came straight out of high school. Neither one was more experienced than the other
so the fact that lebron had an extra year to mature and work on his game before he came to the league shouldn't mean anything? you're basically penalizing kobe for being younger when he entered the league.




  147 - 42 STRK: 5 w in a row WIN PCT: 77% 29 (0) 
  Career: | Aug 17: 97-57, Rank #29 | Aug 16: 2-0, Rank #224 | Aug 14: 11-8, Rank #285 | Aug 13: 1-0, Rank #480 *


Last edited by Fearless Genius; 07-13-2012 at 07:30 AM..
 07-13-2012, 07:36 AM         #788
Youngin19  OP
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 EnlightenMe said:
so the fact that lebron had an extra year to mature and work on his game before he came to the league shouldn't mean anything? you're basically penalizing kobe for being younger when he entered the league.
nah, Bron just has a late birthday so they force you to start school a year later...when it comes down to it, it's irrelevant. Bron played the same number of years in high school as Kobe. Neither one was more experienced than the other.
 6 years ago '11        #789
ZeusSlaps 774 heat pts774
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When its all said and done they both gon be top 5 alltime
 6 years ago '12        #790
Fearless Genius 72 heat pts72
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 Youngin19 said:
nah, Bron just has a late birthday so they force you to start school a year later...when it comes down to it, it's irrelevant. Bron played the same number of years in high school as Kobe. Neither one was more experienced than the other.
we'll just have to agree to disagree




  147 - 42 STRK: 5 w in a row WIN PCT: 77% 29 (0) 
  Career: | Aug 17: 97-57, Rank #29 | Aug 16: 2-0, Rank #224 | Aug 14: 11-8, Rank #285 | Aug 13: 1-0, Rank #480 *


Last edited by Fearless Genius; 07-13-2012 at 08:22 AM..
 6 years ago '04        #791
Budala 420 heat pts420
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 305Lars said:
When its all said and done they both gon be top 5 alltime

Kobe top 5? Are you kidding me?

MJ
Magic
Bird
Shaq
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Duncan

Add Lebron to that list when he is done....

Kobe maybe making it to top 15
 6 years ago '05        #792
Y.G. 27 heat pts27
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 Budala said:

Kobe top 5? Are you kidding me?

MJ
Magic
Bird
Shaq
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Duncan

Add Lebron to that list when he is done....

Kobe maybe making it to top 15
Add Lebron but no Kobe? :irvinhah:

No Hakeem? List is sh*t.
 6 years ago '11        #793
ZeusSlaps 774 heat pts774
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 Budala said:

Kobe top 5? Are you kidding me?

MJ
Magic
Bird
Shaq
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Duncan

Add Lebron to that list when he is done....

Kobe maybe making it to top 15
Hakeem>>Shaq

Bron will be in there when hes done


Last edited by ZeusSlaps; 07-13-2012 at 09:46 AM..
 6 years ago '12        #794
ThePainkiller 358 heat pts358
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Kobe > Everybody.
 6 years ago '12        #795
ThePainkiller 358 heat pts358
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Wait, these n*ggas saying Kobe isn't top 5? Kobe is better than Birdman, Johnson, Duncan, and Kareem. He's way better than Shaq, ask that f*ggot how Kobe's a.ss tastes. Kobe is the best Laker of all time and ever the greatest lakers agree.

Quit hating on my n*gga. You all are just mad that he is the only thing that can be equally compared to Jordan.
 07-13-2012, 09:54 AM         #796
3rdcoasta  OP
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 Galactus said:
why didnt u just post career stats since you are counting lbjs entire career avgs but not kobes...

kobe career

25 ppg 5 rpg apg 5 fg pct 45 topg 3 spg 1.5 bpg 0.5

bron career

28 ppg 7 rpg apg 6 fg pct 48 topg 3 spg 2 bpg 1

he beats kobe in every stat plus


3 mvps vs 1 .

Idiotic biased kobe stan.

the stat king! and only one ring? Bling Bling n*ggas!
 6 years ago '06        #797
raw51188 3 heat pts
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you really gotta compare by position. kobe the second greatest SG of all time (Jordan). LBJ the second greatest SF of all time (Larry)

Done.

People need to stop looking at stats and FG% and sh*t. WATCH the games. LBJ doesn't take tough shots, he passes out of them. Kobe takes them. There's your difference in career FG shooting %'s. Ever wonder why LBJ's %s go down in the playoffs? Because he decided to take those tough shots rather than pass out of them because he knows its on his shoulders to take them. Kobe takes even more tough shots, so his %s drop as well. Bron shoots a higher percentage than MJ, does that make him better than the GOAT? no.

LBJ is a weak side defender. He sneaks up for steals and blocks. Kobe is a one on one defender, and later in his career started guarding entire teams to make up for his wack a.ss teams defense. He did less of that last year when Brown installed a defense.
 6 years ago '06        #798
omniscience 3 heat pts
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EnlightenMe = douche..

Lex = Supreme douche..


Nothing to see here..

Ether has been served in a platinum flask...

Let's move on..
 07-13-2012, 10:19 AM         #799
3rdcoasta  OP
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People love to compare Kobe Bryant to Michael Jordan. Others will say Kobe Bryant is nowhere near Michael Jordan's statistics. MJ's career field-goal percentage is an astounding 49.7 percent while Kobe's is 45.4 percent. So before we start, let's address certain issues:



1. Kobe played his first three years on the bench, whereas Jordan started his first season hoisting up 19.8 shots a game.

2. Kobe played alongside Shaquille O'Neal (at the time, the face of the franchise), meaning Shaq was the primary scorer, and also the preliminary post-scorer, which brings me to my third point.

3. Kobe shot a hell of a lot more threes than Jordan ever did. And hitting threes has an obviously lower efficiency than playing a mid-range game or a post game.



So as similar as Kobe is to Jordan, already there are red flags that should be going up in your head. The argument doesn't stand on same grounds.

So in order to compare them on a more level playing field, let's take away Kobe's 3 years of coming off the bench, and take away Jordan's Wizards campaign, because we all know he never should have played for the Wizards.

Also, let's take away the three-point shooting from both players (since they can't be compared) and let's focus on the post/mid-range where both players excelled.




Reference:



Jordan's career statistics:

Kobe's career statistics:



Jordan's career stats (averages added for '85-'98):

FGM (field goals made): 148.9

FGA (field goals attempted): 299.8

3P (3-pointers made): 7.7

3PA (3-pointers attempted): 22.7



Now subtract the 3P from FGM, and 3PA from FGA and you get: 141.2 FGM / 277.1 FGA =50.9%

A career 50.9% FG from the mid-range.




Kobe's career stats (averages added for '99-'11 to match Jordan's 12 years):



FGM: 116.2

FGA: 254.8

3P: 16.7

3PA: 49.3



Now subtract Kobe's 3's from his overall field goal and you get: 99.5 FGM / 205.5 FGA = 48.4%



Between Kobe and Jordan, there is a 2.5% difference in efficiency.



Now let's take a look at their total attempts:




Jordan's career totals from '85-'98:

FGM: 10962 shots



FGA: 21686 shots

3P: 555 shots

3PA: 1670 shots



Same mathematics. Eliminate the three-pointer from the overall shots and you get: 10407 (shots made) / 20016 (shots attempted)



And now Kobe:

FGM: 8783 shots

FGA: 19256 shots

3P: 1265 shots

3PA: 3728 shots




Same math: 7518 (shots made) / 15528 (shots attempted)





So let's compare their post/mid-range game:

Jordan's field goal: 50.9%

Kobe's field goal: 48.4%



Jordan's total shots made and attempted: 10407 / 20016

Kobe's total shots made and attempted: 7518 / 15528



Already you can tell how different their games are. Kobe played a lot as a wing shooter and Jordan played closer to the rim than Kobe did. Jordan took 4500 more shots in the mid-range than Kobe.



If using the statistics, Kobe emulated Jordan's mid-range game throughout his career, it would look like this:


Kobe's FG (48.4%) x Jordan's total shot attempts (20016) = 9687



Jordan's total made (10407) - Kobe's total made (9687) = 720 shots made

Jordan would have made 720 more shots in the post and mid-range than Kobe would have, over the 12-year course.

That would amount to: 720 shots / 12 years = 60 more shots made by Jordan per year

Which would translate to: 60 shots / 82 games a year = 0.73 shots per game. Basically Kobe would have missed less than 1 shot a game than Jordan would have.



Numbers don't tell the whole story, but "numbers don't lie" is a misleading statement. The difference in efficiency is heavily influenced by Bryant's perimeter game, as well as Jordan's lack-of. Of course, this is not an article to argue who the G.O.A.T. is. Jordan was a player that can't be matched in history, but there is a huge double standard when it comes to comparing the two.


Ref



old article but interesting perspective and all i get out of this is...
Jordan was a player that can't be matched in history


remember it could've easily been 8 rings...
 6 years ago '04        #800
Budala 420 heat pts420
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