why derrick rose shouldnt win mvp (good read)

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 7 years ago '07        #81
deemoney23 15 heat pts15
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 beast mode said:
these n*ggaz really think bulls are a 1 man team. noah is a top 5 C when healthy. i LOVE how n*ggaz act like boozer isn't ave 18 and 9 on 52% shooting. or how about deng ave 18 and 6 and is a top 5 sf DEFENSIVELY.
bulls have arguably the best front court when healthy (between them and the lakers)

now rose is most def the orchestrator on offense and is having a very nice year im not debating that but n*ggaz k!ll me acting like he's playing with scrubs

these n*ggaz love to say "oh but boozers was out first couple weeks"

how quick they forget taj gibson was playing damn good in his absence (even though rose still had noah,deng)

notible games for gibson in the first few weeks at pf:

okc:16 and 11 on 67%
nyk:18 and 10 with 2 blocks on 60%
bos:18 and 7 on 64%
den:16 and 6 with 5 blocks on 58%
gst: 14 and 7 with 4 blocks on 50%
dal: 17 and 18 on 58%
lal:16 and 12 with 2 blks on 58%

then when booz came back bulls go 44-12 since then. rose may not have the house hold names that wow everybody but this n*ggaz has plenty of help and yes ROSE IS a worthy mvp candidate but cut it out with the "his team isn't good" them n*ggaz are damn good AGAIN...arguably best front court in the nba (with lakers)
As a Bulls fan, I think we have a good team. You're right that Boozer, Noah, Deng, & Gibson all can play. But the problem is, no one on this site is consistent. One day it's, the Bulls have 3 All Star caliber players and then the other it's their overrated and can't score, and only win cuz of their defense! People have to choose which one they're going with, cuz theres a lot of flip flopping going on from thread to thread.

Also the Bulls are where they're at because of Rose elevating his play. It's funny how people want to say LeBron is the MVP because of how bad Cleveland is this season. He won it the last two seasons and it was well deserved! But I didn't know he should win it by default every year now because his former team is in disarray The Bulls have gone from the 8th seed to the 1st seed in just one season. The most significant pieces we picked up in the off season were coach Thibs and Boozer. Can we honestly say that this team goes from an 8 to a 1 seed and wins more than 41 games(which was our win total last year) without Rose??
 7 years ago '05        #82
Sheeed 1 heat pts
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 Hold That said:
And I find it funny nobody wants to address the 14-7 boozer has been putting up for the past 18 games..
boozer is a post season sell out...im not even surprised...
 7 years ago '05        #83
Hold That 103 heat pts103
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 beast mode said:
n*gga name a better front court (other than lakers) then the bulls noah,booz and deng?????
Too bad they missed a combined 60 games already and didn't really get a chance to benifit from it.. But we aren't going by facts, or watching the games.. Just by what you see on websites and on paper right? Thats how it works on BX, nobody ever actually "watches" the game..

Because when I prove that I watch YOUR TEAMS, the response is "Oh so why you watching us"... This is the ignorance on the site, and this is how I know you n*ggas don't really watch NBA ball unless it's on ESPN/TNT/ABC.
 7 years ago '08        #84
sasuke-sama313 2 heat pts
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Man this shouldn't be a debate Rose is the M.V.P. Of coarse i want my heat to kick Chicago a.ss but this n*gga Rose is on some s**t this year. Numbers don't tell the whole story here. But i still think a him and a healthy cp3 is on the same level. But he's been more valuable to his team then Lebron because of Wade and vice versa. And Wade is my favorite player. Plus i don't like that best record s**t because even if we catch them Rose still should be M.V.P
 03-28-2011, 03:22 PM         #85
TheBallDontLie  OP
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 Ghost Writer said:
1. I'm going to TRY to make this fairly short since my last post got most of what I wanted to say in. I never...ever...said I didn't watch the games. Not really sure where that came from.

2. You're denying Le Betard the right to use stats as an argument but are basing you're argument off stats. Top 10 in a.ssists and points is awesome and all but top 10 is just a number. There's no significance behind it. I can find 50 similar stats for Wade and Lebron as well as probably some random a.ss bums.

3. Wades wins weren't there because he had no efficient role players yet alone 3 super efficient, defensively dedicated, borderline all-star role players. Yet they were still a playoff team. If wade was on the Bulls instead of Rose they 100% wouldn't be any worse and they very well could be better.

4. Stop saying D. Rose is triple teamed. No team is dumb enough to consistently triple team ANY player in the NBA. Just because you possess a single picture of D Rose attracting 3 players 1 or 2 times does not constitute him being a player that is "triple teamed". Most likely even if he was it was a missed or f**ked up rotation in the help defense.

5. Also stop implying that teams let Westbrook walk to the hoop and gently put the ball in the hoop just because of Durant. They do not...

6. You bring up 1 game, against another top defensive team that West brook had a bad night. I could 100% go through Rose's game log and do the same.

7. Rose is NOT the most important factor in the teams success. I'm sorry but that is undeniably false. He is huge but defense is what wins games for the Bulls and again that is not even Rose's focus.

Finally...I'm going to say this...90% of my incentive in arguing against Rose for MVP is because your a f**got who can't get Rose's d!ck out of your mouth and spend all day on the internet trying your best to show how deep you can take Rose's c*ck. You are not even a Bulls fan you're a Rose fan and have proved this by saying the bulls CAN'T win a game when rose plays bad which is just ridiculous IMO.

I actually believe in the end Rose will and probably should win it but I believe the grounds upon which it will happen are slightly misleading and the overall pool for MVP candidates happens to be slightly diluted. Rose is a great player but there's no excuse for your d!ckriding. Learn to be more open-minded and non-bias before you attempt to have an argument with a true fan of professional basketball as a whole (although I'm a die hard Heat fan till the death).

Sorry for the length...I guess I still had some more things to say
:owned:
 7 years ago '10        #86
beast mode 25 heat pts25
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 Hold That said:
Too bad they missed a combined 60 games already and didn't really get a chance to benifit from it.. But we aren't going by facts, or watching the games.. Just by what you see on websites and on paper right? Thats how it works on BX, nobody ever actually "watches" the game..

Because when I prove that I watch YOUR TEAMS, the response is "Oh so why you watching us"... This is the ignorance on the site, and this is how I know you n*ggas don't really watch NBA ball unless it's on ESPN/TNT/ABC.
AGAIN they are playing together now and will be healthy come playoff time so when healthy name a better front court then the bulls other than the lakers???
 03-28-2011, 03:25 PM         #87
antdog  OP
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 beast mode said:
n*gga name a better front court (other than lakers) then the bulls noah,booz and deng?????
OKC
Perk/Ibaka

Memphis
Gasol/zbo/

Boston when they got Shaq
KG/Oneal/

Utah
Milsap/AL
 7 years ago '04        #88
Cap Peeler 7 heat pts
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Dan f**king Lebastard...


n*ggas opinion doesn't even hold weight in Miami, why would anyone take him serious anymore
 7 years ago '05        #89
iggyemu 
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LeBetard makes good points but unfortunately NBA MVP is never determined in such a manner. I think the fact that Nash got that 2nd MVP warrants Rose getting it this year. His importance to his team is just as Nash's was but Nash wasn't as important as Kobe to his team and wasn't the league's best player as Kobe was that year. Rose isn't the best player in the NBA not this season...he might be the best point guard though his a.ssist numbers hurt him if you are judging how well he plays that particular position.

But his team is somewhere nobody thought. Thibs is the main reason why but Rose is the team's best player. And in a league where LeBron and Wade are consistently great in comparison to prior seasons to where you can't determine who is more valuable between the two....in a league where Kobe took 3/4 of the season off before turning it up to a MVP caliber level...a league where Boston and SA have no standout players. Like Kobe in 2006, Howard's team's record was not at the level that results in MVP even though he is truly the most valuable player to his team in the entire league.

In a league with all those caveats...ask yourself...who else but Rose are you going to give this award to? Yes this will go down with that Nash 2nd MVP in the WTF were they thinking category. But it is what it is.
 7 years ago '05        #90
Hold That 103 heat pts103
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[quote=Ghost Writer;18841457]

2. You're denying Le Betard the right to use stats as an argument but are basing you're argument off stats. Top 10 in a.ssists and points is awesome and all but top 10 is just a number. There's no significance behind it. I can find 50 similar stats for Wade and Lebron as well as probably some random a.ss bums.
The significance behind being both top 10 in a.ssist and scoring is the fact that the only players who have done it are all first ballot Hall of Famers.. So no you can't find some "random bum dude who's done something similar"..

3. Wades wins weren't there because he had no efficient role players yet alone 3 super efficient, defensively dedicated, borderline all-star role players. Yet they were still a playoff team. If wade was on the Bulls instead of Rose they 100% wouldn't be any worse and they very well could be better.
Thats not good enough, sucks for Wade, but he didn't elevate the team like Iverson, there for no MVP. Got to be in the top 3 and have the stats.. Thats what people were saying all season when the Bulls were hanging on the balance.. Now that we are the top spot they want to throw out the Win Loss record argument.. Ironic and funny.


4. Stop saying D. Rose is triple teamed. No team is dumb enough to consistently triple team ANY player in the NBA. Just because you possess a single picture of D Rose attracting 3 players 1 or 2 times does not constitute him being a player that is "triple teamed". Most likely even if he was it was a missed or f**ked up rotation in the help defense.
Rose is often triple team to wear the team literally create a wall of defenders to bait him into passing or taking a jump shot.. Either way the idea is to get the ball out his hands and force someone else to beat you.. Teams will cheat off their man when you have Noah/Bogans on the floor two players who are offensive liabilities..


5. Also stop implying that teams let Westbrook walk to the hoop and gently put the ball in the hoop just because of Durant. They do not...
Never said they did, but he does not command half the attention defensively that Rose does.. Teams are more concerned about where Durant is at all times on the court, Westbrook is second.. With the Bulls it's "where's Rose 1st, where's Rose second, and where's Rose 3rd.."

6. You bring up 1 game, against another top defensive team that West brook had a bad night. I could 100% go through Rose's game log and do the same.
Go to that game log and if Rose is under 10pts and 10assist it will have a loss right beside the game log.

7. Rose is NOT the most important factor in the teams success. I'm sorry but that is undeniably false. He is huge but defense is what wins games for the Bulls and again that is not even Rose's focus.
Defense keeps you in games, superstars win them and secure them.. You can play all the defense in the f**kin world, but if you do not have a closer you're not winning anything...

Finally...I'm going to say this...90% of my incentive in arguing against Rose for MVP is because your a f**got who can't get Rose's d!ck out of your mouth and spend all day on the internet trying your best to show how deep you can take Rose's c*ck. You are not even a Bulls fan you're a Rose fan and have proved this by saying the bulls CAN'T win a game when rose plays bad which is just ridiculous IMO.
ANd here comes the hate.. True colors always show..

I actually believe in the end Rose will and probably should win it but I believe the grounds upon which it will happen are slightly misleading and the overall pool for MVP candidates happens to be slightly diluted. Rose is a great player but there's no excuse for your d!ckriding. Learn to be more open-minded and non-bias before you attempt to have an argument with a true fan of professional basketball as a whole (although I'm a die hard Heat fan till the death).
How am I bias, when have you ever seen me in a LeBron/Dwight/Kobe thread hating? A heat fan telling me to be open minded when you guys routinely are in Melo/Kobe threads hating? The irony.. I'm only in Rose threads defending him from guess who? Heat fans.. For your team to have 3 superstars, you guys are some of the most bitter fans on this site.. I can see why the Knicks fans are bitter but the Heat fans s**t about on every fan base or hates on anything that doesn't involve their three..
Sorry for the length...I guess I still had some more things to say
No problem with the length I don't mind reading
 03-28-2011, 03:33 PM         #91
rd Meth  OP
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best two point guards in the league
 7 years ago '10        #92
beast mode 25 heat pts25
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 antdog said:
OKC
Perk/Ibaka

Memphis
Gasol/zbo/

Boston when they got Shaq
KG/Oneal/

Utah
Milsap/AL
^^^ noah is better on offense AND defense than perk and booz is a better scorer and rebounder then Ibaka though Ibaka is a better shot blocker.

gasol and zbo are very talented on offense but can't stop a nose bleed hence the only game noah and booz played against them they r*ped them on the rebounds and fold when they get played physical (zach could only manage 5 rebounds against booz)

shaq and o'neal not even worth commenting

milsap and al stand along are prolly better then just noah and booz but the trio front court of noah,booz and deng>>>>milsap,al and who ever they have interchanging at sf
 7 years ago '08        #93
Arson 84 heat pts84
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[pic - click to view]



/thread
 7 years ago '07        #94
deemoney23 15 heat pts15
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So let me ask people a question. Some people make it sound like Rose isn't the MVP because of stats. Is it because some people avg more ppg? more a.ssist? more rebounds?? higher PER I'm just asking because it seems like a lot of arguments are starting to gear towards stats. So he avg's 25 & 8. Would he be MVP if he avg'd 28 & 10?? Because I think the award is about alot more than just individual stats, even though its obviously important. The guy is top 10 in two of the three major statistical categories, and the only other player in the convo for MVP who can say that is DHoward. So if it is about indv stats, doesn't Rose qualify?? Then factor in the team stats (Best conf record, going from 8th to 1st in a season, top def team, the amount of injuries to key players) I don't see how he's not MVP! The MVP isn't the best player in the league award, which it sounds like some people are trying to make it out to be.
 7 years ago '05        #95
Hold That 103 heat pts103
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For the Rose doesn't get triple teamed argument..

Rose is not even in the paint yet, and isn't even driving but probing the base line.. As soon as he catches the Ball notice how everyone sags off their man slightly to go towards him..

Bogans is wide the fu*k open but it would be a dangerous cross court pass.. Dampier sags off of Noah because he has a inconsistent 15footer... This happens all the time, this is the attention he commands and recieves on a nightly basis.. The same defense Kobe use to face on those old Lakers teams with Smush, and the same defenses that Wade and Bron use to face when they were the lone stars.. Coaches have already admitted to it..

[pic - click to view]



westbrook does not command this..


[pic - click to view]



Just like Wade, Rose just has the supreme ability to weave in and out of multiple defenders like they are folding chairs.


Last edited by Hold That; 03-28-2011 at 03:50 PM..
 7 years ago '05        #96
Hold That 103 heat pts103
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 Ghost Writer said:

All I'm going to say this time is...don't a.ssociate me with other "Heat fans" on this website by saying "you guys". As you can tell from my post count and join date I am far from a Boxden regular. I could care less what "other" heat fans do. Especially those on a website. Speak to ME. I can only be responsible for my own opinions and arguments not those of some generalization you have created based upon your overwhelming time spent on the internet. I am not bitter and do not "hate" on anyone unless it is truly deserved. I am in no way bitter and love and support my team to the death...I do not consider myself part of a "fan base". I know how I feel and speak for myself...

Grow up...
When there's a Heat fan hating daily, it's hard to NOT lump you in.. Just like you had no problem lumping in all Bulls fans as nothing more than Rose stans a few minutes ago.. So maybe you should take your own advice of growing up.. I mean you just admitted to starting this debate over the fact that you dont like how "we hype rose up or d!ck ride him".. Not because you didn't think he was MVP, but because you were simply disgusted by how happy fans are to have him on their team..

What kind of hating sh*t is that??? And you tell ME to grow up? Look in the mirror. Who the fu*k am I to tell someone they shouldn't like a basketball player that much? Who am I to say what is the proper degree someone should root for a player? I don't do that, so why do you feel the need or anyone else feel the need to do that with me? Who are you to say what is too much for me?


Last edited by Hold That; 03-28-2011 at 03:49 PM..
 7 years ago '05        #97
Bea5T 137 heat pts137
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Wade and Lebron are gonna get the same treatment Kobe and Shaq did in 2001



Both Kobe and shaq had comparable stats and they were better than anyone in the race individually, but Iverson lead the sixers to the same exact record the Lakers had.

Kobe and shaq should have been 2 and 3 atleast
 7 years ago '07        #98
joshdogg26 193 heat pts193
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since it was brought up, here's rose's splits in wins and losses:

Wins
24.7 points, 4.5 rebounds, 8.2 a.sssits, 44.1 FG%

Losses
25.6 points, 3.3 rebounds, 7.2 a.ssists, 43.1 FG%

a little worse, but not exactly night and day
 7 years ago '08        #99
Arson 84 heat pts84
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 joshdogg26 said:
since it was brought up, here's rose's splits in wins and losses:

Wins
24.7 points, 4.5 rebounds, 8.2 a.sssits, 44.1 FG%

Losses
25.6 points, 3.3 rebounds, 7.2 a.ssists, 43.1 FG%

a little worse, but not exactly night and day
and this guy is the most valuable in the league?
 7 years ago '05        #100
Hold That 103 heat pts103
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 joshdogg26 said:
since it was brought up, here's rose's splits in wins and losses:

Wins
24.7 points, 4.5 rebounds, 8.2 a.sssits, 44.1 FG%

Losses
25.6 points, 3.3 rebounds, 7.2 a.ssists, 43.1 FG%

a little worse, but not exactly night and day
consistency is what I see.. And thats what you want out of any MVP, because if your best player can't carry you, you really don't have a chance in the first place.. So when Rose gets his stats and we lost only 19 times this year(second best in the league) says it all..


Last edited by Hold That; 03-28-2011 at 03:55 PM..
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